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Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: bobofthenorth on September 04, 2009, 05:50:20 PM



Title: Got weighed today
Post by: bobofthenorth on September 04, 2009, 05:50:20 PM
So I was in need of a nap and the scale was closed.  What a bit of good luck.  I pulled in over the scale and got the following:
11350 fronts
18040 drives
6640 tags

Then I backed up, lifted the tags and did it all over again.
10250 fronts
25920 drives

And then just for giggles I backed up again and did the right side only.
5720 front right
11880 right drive & tag

I know the tags up and tags down totals don't match exactly but I guess that's the margin for error on a highway scale.  Lifting the tags took almost exactly 1000# off the steers.  No wonder it gets a little squirrelly if you drive with the tags up.

Then I pulled over and had a nap.


Title: Re: Got weighed today
Post by: DaveG on September 04, 2009, 06:20:39 PM
Hope you had a nice nap!

The weights are a great reference for others who have a bus with the same configuration as yours, tag (not bogie!) behind driver.

It would be interesting to see what an Eagle with the bogie ahead of the drive does.


Title: Re: Got weighed today
Post by: Eagle Andy on September 04, 2009, 08:08:43 PM
Well I weighed the Eagle last time we went out . Came up with this. Steers 10,080  Bogie 5,320 Drives 18,400   Both Bogie and Drives 24,060


Title: Re: Got weighed today
Post by: DaveG on September 04, 2009, 08:31:41 PM
Thanks Andy...interesting that they are almost the same.


Title: Re: Got weighed today
Post by: TomC on September 05, 2009, 04:04:06 AM
Andy- based on the usual use of 11R-24.5 on Eagles with 14 ply tires, Michelin suggests inflation of (for the XZA3) of 75psi for steer (10,140lb capacity), 70psi for the tag (lowest suggested at 9,640lbs), and 70psi for the drives (18,640lb capacity).  If you're running higher, lower to that pressure-you won't believe the ride improvement.

Bob-what tire size, make and model are you using? Can look up your tires for proper tire inflation.  Good Luck, TomC


Title: Re: Got weighed today
Post by: Eagle Andy on September 05, 2009, 09:18:23 AM
Hey Tom ,  I run 100 psi all the way around , I asked the truck boss at work what he thought and his reply was run them there and see what kind of tread ware you get. The ride seem pretty good to me and the tires are wearing very nice I watch them close as I drive for a living and am always checking things out. However I will try the lower pressure when I go to Quartsitze this jan . Thanks for the info


Title: Re: Got weighed today
Post by: belfert on September 05, 2009, 09:34:37 AM
One thing I noticed with lower PSI in the tires is increased movement of the bus as people move around.  My brother was walking in the bus and I could see the tire sidewalls flexing.  I may have to go a little higher on the PSI to avoid this.


Title: Re: Got weighed today
Post by: luvrbus on September 05, 2009, 10:10:58 AM
Don't run your tires at 70# on a Eagle Andy, 105# in the front, 90# on the boogies 90# on the drivers, at 70 # they will cup been there done that you don't have but 1 axle per say and that is the drive axle, the front and the boogies are independent each wheel has it's own axle.
Your Eagle will also drive and ride like crap at 70#and fwiw your bus came 12r 22.5 from the factory.
Eagle knew what they were doing when they recommend the tire pressures and they are the same from 29,000# to 40,000#
 good luck and now it's back to floating the river  


Title: Re: Got weighed today
Post by: bobofthenorth on September 05, 2009, 10:59:38 AM
11R 24.5s Tom.  I run Michelin XZA-1s on the steers and tags and Bridgestone grips on the drives.  All at 90#


Title: Re: Got weighed today
Post by: John316 on September 05, 2009, 11:31:05 AM
Clifford! Great to hear from you. Where you been hiding? I have missed the sage, sound advice...

God bless,

John


Title: Re: Got weighed today
Post by: JohnEd on September 05, 2009, 02:23:38 PM
With radials:  Doesn't the tread seem to wear evenly regardless of pressure.  Uneven wear indicated toe in/out or camber problems.  IS THIS TRUE?  I hate doubt.

Thanks,

John


Title: Re: Got weighed today
Post by: DaveG on September 05, 2009, 03:00:56 PM
Tires are a whole 'nuther discussion...ride quality, tread wear & carrying capacity. As Tom C indicated, most tire manufacuturers have a chart for each size/ply rating tire with regards to it's carrying capacity at a given tire pressure. Probably the most important thing is to make sure you have enough air in the tire to carry the load you are asking it to carry...that is why, in my opinion (I can have one, right!?) one should weigh their coach/truck/bus/trailer/whatever so that they KNOW what the load is they are asking the tires to carry. That should be the baseline for everything else related to tires.


Title: Re: Got weighed today
Post by: Ed Hackenbruch on September 05, 2009, 05:01:24 PM
"Tires are a whole 'nuther discussion...ride quality, tread wear & carrying capacity."   And don't forget that tire pressure affects your fuel mileage too!


Title: Re: Got weighed today
Post by: John316 on September 05, 2009, 05:56:32 PM
And don't forget that tire pressure affects your fuel mileage too!

Yup. Our dear car mechanic president oBAMa told us to fill them up ::).

So I guess you have the word folks. Pump them up just before they burst, and save the planet ;D :D :D ;D.

God bless,

John


Title: Re: Got weighed today
Post by: Tom Y on September 05, 2009, 06:25:26 PM
I had my 5C on the scales. I was told I could run 70 psi also, but I had 82 all around and ran them. I then checked footprint and went to 95 in the rears to get the same footprint as the front. I could not feel a difference in ride but still getting used to it.  Tom Y


Title: Re: Got weighed today
Post by: NJT 5573 on September 05, 2009, 07:43:35 PM
Eagles don't have a "ride" problem. You can put an open can of pop on the cargo bay floor and drive 200 miles and it won't spill a drop.

If you don't mind spending time in the tire shop, you can run low pressures, but you loose a lot of the tires ability to reject foreign objects.

I'm with Cliff, Eagle puts a plaque in the coaches that states the Manufacturers required tire pressures. Eagles also transfer weight from one tire to the other all the time, so a static parked axle weight doesn't come close to telling the whole story. Eagles will carry a tire over a hole in the road or pick a tire into the air if twisted, so lets not try to reinvent the wheel here.

Air ride is different, it tends to follow the holes in the road more and also has ride quality issues that may lend to using every trick you can come up with to not be beaten to death at the end of the day. If some sacrifices or trade offs are necessary to get from point A to point B, and as long as it keeps you on the bull, and the food stays in the refrigerator I guess its all good.


Title: Re: Got weighed today
Post by: TomC on September 05, 2009, 07:54:07 PM
Bob- you're real close to the tire pressures.  I would stay with the 90psi in front (11,680lb capacity).  Even though your drives are Bridgestone, they will have just about the same pressure recommendation as Michelin.  For your drives, you should be at 70psi (18,640lb capacity), and tags at the minimum of 70psi (9,640lb capacity) for both the best ride and maximum tire life.

Just a note to let you know I'm not talking out of my ear on this subject.  I was in Portland, Or last Tues and Wed at Freightliner headquarters to be introduced to the new 2011 year models with 2010 certified engines using Selective Catalyst Reduction (SCR) technology-using the now available catalytic converter with particulate trap-and adding the SCR which is the Urea reaction chamber.  My point to this is the Michelin factory reps were there.  I sat down with the head guy talking about tire pressures with bus conversion guys.  He specifically said not to ever run the maximum on the side of the tire, or close to it.  It makes for a smaller foot print, hence less traction.  He did say to follow the tire inflation tables for your tire size and axle weight.  The only time when you should increase the tire pressure above the suggested inflation is when you'll be driving 75 mph all day in hot weather-then increase the tire pressure by 10psi.  The only way you get cupping on a tire is to have it be below the suggested inflation, or run it when it is half flat when you don't know about it.  On my bus, the suggested tire inflation is 85psi in front and 90 in back.  For ease of inflation, I run 90psi all around.  The bus rides nicely and tire wear is even.  Running 105psi when 90 or 70 will do just makes for a fork lift like ride.  Good Luck, TomC


Title: Re: Got weighed today
Post by: Dreamscape on September 05, 2009, 08:05:51 PM
I'm sure glad we have an Eagle! I usually have a bottle of water next to my shifter on the floor, and it never goes anywhere. I run 100 all the way around, I like the ride, and the tires wear good at that pressure. I'm sticking with what I do. I've tried lower and higher, and where it's at is where it will stay. Did I say I like our ride! ;)

Paul


Title: Re: Got weighed today
Post by: bobofthenorth on September 05, 2009, 09:31:35 PM
I think they likely all ride pretty good.  Marilyn used to go through a big ritual unpacking of the bathroom counter before we moved but I never bothered when I was moving without her and now she doesn't both either.  All that "stuf" sitting on a corian counter is exactly where it started out when we get to our new home.  My teapot rides beside me just like Paul's water bottle.  I'm reluctant to drop any pressure out of my drives because they appear to be wearing evenly and I can't complain about the ride but OTOH I don't pretend to be smarter than the tire builders.


Title: Re: Got weighed today
Post by: John316 on September 06, 2009, 05:11:52 AM
My teapot rides beside me.....

I love it! That there is the difference between a refined Canadian, and me ;D. I have my Dr. Pepper there ;D. A teapot sounds wonderfully refined and Canadian.

God bless,

John


Title: Re: Got weighed today
Post by: Dreamscape on September 06, 2009, 08:25:31 AM
John, He didn't say what is in it though! ::) Looks can be deceiving you know! ;D


Title: Re: Got weighed today
Post by: luvrbus on September 06, 2009, 09:28:31 AM
Paul, it is tea when he is driving but in the park mode it becomes Red Dog LOL


Title: Re: Got weighed today
Post by: Van on September 06, 2009, 09:34:54 AM
Hey Clifford, was that you and Sonja we saw on Fox News at the Tea Party Express in Flaggstaff ;D,Ddn't mean to steal the thread,but tou guys were already  :D discussing tea


Title: Re: Got weighed today
Post by: luvrbus on September 06, 2009, 09:39:42 AM
Yes it was Van along with some others from the Eagles group


Title: Re: Got weighed today
Post by: Van on September 06, 2009, 10:15:13 AM
My Heroes!You two are the best.All the best. By the way a little cooler today LOL. ;D. I wish we had been there with you guy's, mustta been fun :)


Title: Re: Got weighed today
Post by: John316 on September 06, 2009, 01:20:59 PM
Clifford,

That is great! I am glad that you were there. I wish I would have seen you.

God bless,

John


Title: Re: Got weighed today
Post by: bobofthenorth on September 06, 2009, 04:15:36 PM
..... but in the park mode it becomes Red Dog LOL

You've got a REALLY good memory for an old guy.  We've sure been enjoying your awing this summer - thanks again.  Hope to see you this winter on the way to Mexico.


Title: Re: Got weighed today
Post by: Homegrowndiesel on September 07, 2009, 10:37:21 PM
Well with those weights in mind I had to look at my last weigh slip.
7620 steering
5160 bogies
14640 Drives
27420 total

I should weigh it again to see how much more stuff We have on board.
It is hard to believe our Eagle weighs over 6000# less.
 


Title: Re: Got weighed today
Post by: TomC on September 08, 2009, 03:31:48 AM
HGD- with those weights, you could eliminate the tag axle.  Obviously you're concerned about fuel mileage with the custom shovel head front (a term from railroads) you made.  Taking the tag off would further save weight and eliminate some forward motion friction.  On the down side, maybe less stability and of course less braking.  Good Luck, TomC


Title: Re: Got weighed today
Post by: luvrbus on September 08, 2009, 06:46:09 AM
HGD, I would weigh the bus again that is about what a empty 05 Eagle shell weighs 


good luck


Title: Re: Got weighed today
Post by: Ed Hackenbruch on September 08, 2009, 06:57:43 AM
I kinda wondered about that too.  My 35 ft. 5A with no tag/bogie weighs about 28-29000 fully loaded. We fulltime so we do carry a lot of stuff but still.........?


Title: Re: Got weighed today
Post by: TomC on September 08, 2009, 08:01:21 AM
With my 2 axle 40ft transit, we weigh in at 31,000lbs fully loaded with tanks topped off.  Considering the front axle is rated at 13,000lbs and the rear at 23,000lbs, we're 5,000lbs from the chassis rating!  This is another of the many reasons we didn't buy a sticks and staples.  Most regular motohomes are just a few hundred pounds from their ratings-how safe is that?  Good Luck, TomC


Title: Re: Got weighed today
Post by: DaveG on September 08, 2009, 04:17:36 PM
I'm with Clifford...that seems pretty light for a loaded coach. Maybe someone swapped your 8V71 for a 4-71?


Title: Re: Got weighed today
Post by: Dreamscape on September 08, 2009, 04:33:18 PM
In 06 when we moved to TX I had to get the bus weighed at a local cotton gin, 32,163# total. I was in a hurry at the time and did not weigh each axle, trying to get my plates and such.

I'm sure we've added a couple of thousand pounds since then.

HGD, yours sounds a little light.

Paul


Title: Re: Got weighed today
Post by: RickB on September 09, 2009, 06:44:49 AM
I weighed my MCI 9 two weeks ago... 31,400 lbs. Our water tanks weren't full and the grey/black tanks were empty. That sounds lighter than some of the other posters.

Rick


Title: Re: Got weighed today
Post by: JackConrad on September 09, 2009, 06:59:08 AM
We weighed our MC-8 a few years ago on a CAT Scale with full water & fuel/empty holding and inside fully stocked (clothes, pantry, refrigerator & the 2 of us on board). Front axle 11,180 [rated for 12,500], Drive axle 18,280 [rated for 22,000], and Tag axle 4020 [rate3d for 6,000] for a total of 33,480 [rated for 36,500].  Jack


Title: Re: Got weighed today
Post by: Homegrowndiesel on September 10, 2009, 01:46:54 PM
Well that light weight did not last long
I don't remember the date of that trip across the scales and I didn't write it on the ticket.
But I weighed it again yesterday, Loaded with beer, wine, clothes, tools, sportster on the back,Golfcart in the front bay, 200 gallons of water and 1/2 tank of fuel.

front 9700
bogie 6240
drives 17060
total 33180

Sure does add up fast.


Title: Re: Got weighed today
Post by: Tony LEE on September 10, 2009, 01:59:12 PM
Tom said
"75psi for steer (10,140lb capacity), 70psi for the tag (lowest suggested at 9,640lbs), and 70psi for the drives"

That's about what I've been doing with my MC8 - although a little higher for the drives. Nice to find others that run at what they should be rather than the universal 100psi all round beloved of truckies (we drive buses, not trucks) . Even more important here where a lot of the roads I run on are pretty bad bitumen or heavily corrugated gravel roads. At a 100psi the whole vehicle would get hammered to pieces.


Title: Re: Got weighed today
Post by: johns4104s on September 10, 2009, 02:22:48 PM
MCI 9

10,700ib steer 23,900ib tag   Total 34,600lb

John


Title: Re: Got weighed today
Post by: tomhamrick on September 11, 2009, 05:23:34 AM
Weighed my Eagle Model 10S (single rear axle) last year after fuel fill up and fully loaded. 10,000 steer and 19,000 drive for a 29,000 total. According to the manufaturer label we have a 12,200 steer axle and a 24,500 drive for 36,700 total. Have not completely finished the cabinets though!!!
Tom Hamrick


Title: Re: Got weighed today
Post by: bcaddel on September 11, 2009, 06:09:30 AM
MCI-7

Full 144 gal Fuel Tank
Full 45 gal propane tank
Bays and Coach full and loaded for trip

No Fresh Water or Waste Water
No People

31,780 total weight

11,200 steer
15,900 drives
4,680 tag


Title: Re: Got weighed today
Post by: DaveG on September 11, 2009, 04:54:16 PM
MCI-7

Full 144 gal Fuel Tank
Full 45 gal propane tank
Bays and Coach full and loaded for trip

No Fresh Water or Waste Water
No People

31,780 total weight

11,200 steer
15,900 drives
4,680 tag


Time to start putting more stuff to the rear!


Title: Re: Got weighed today
Post by: bcaddel on September 11, 2009, 06:05:54 PM
Dave, you have a good point. As I mentioned I didn't have any water and that goes in the rear bay (850 lbs) but my steers are within 1,300 of max load so as you suggested I need to make sure not to overload the steers. The wife and I are 370 lbs so that takes me down to less than 1,000 left on the steers.

Do you know if when I put additional weight in the rear bay and in the bedroom storage areas will there be any kind of leveraging effect that would actually cause some of the load to shift off the drives onto the steers?

Bob


Title: Re: Got weighed today
Post by: buswarrior on September 11, 2009, 07:11:17 PM
Your water in the back bay will go a long way to getting things sorted out.

There is a certain amount of leverage involved in load placement in the vehicle, not a lot unless the weight is outboard of the last axle, but enough for your purposes.

Where does the generator fit into the equation?

As long as you weren't planning on a marble stairway....

Don't be too worried about the front axle on these coaches, if you knew what they weighed on the fronts pulling out of the bus terminal on a Friday night....

Big tires and big brakes way beyond the sizes that the truckers expect to find on a vehicle of this supposed "light weight" gives you an idea as to the dirty truth about coach axle loads.

happy coaching!
buswarrior





Title: Re: Got weighed today
Post by: bcaddel on September 11, 2009, 08:03:34 PM
Buswarrior
Our generator in in the compartment in front of the forward bay on the drivers side.

Since most anything else we put in the bus will be stored under the bed and is some rear storage compartments, I think after reading your responce I agree we are still in pretty good shape as far as weight goes but I should probably try to shift things backwards where pratical.

Thanks for the advise
Bob


Title: Re: Got weighed today
Post by: Ed Hackenbruch on September 14, 2009, 03:30:07 PM
Update on our weights.........First weighed our 68 5A about 5 years ago. Front axle was 10,150 lbs. and the rear was 17,300 for a total of 27,450 lbs fully loaded.  Just weighed her again and now weigh 10,640 lbs. on the front, 18,020 on the back for a total of 28,660 lbs. So we have gained just over 1200 lbs over 5 years of fulltiming.  110lbs on the front is from the spare tire that we now carry and some of it is from the extra tools that i have bought over the years.  I also weighed one side of the bus and it is only 660 lbs more than the other side and i  can shift a few things around to even that out some.  Now, does anybody know what the GVW is for a 5A? i can't find that info anywhere and would like to know. I am sure i am well under it but would like to know just for the heck of it. :)


Title: Re: Got weighed today
Post by: TomC on September 14, 2009, 07:31:30 PM
Typically 13,000 front and 23,000rear.  Good Luck, TomC


Title: Re: Got weighed today
Post by: Ed Hackenbruch on September 14, 2009, 08:00:54 PM
Thanks Tom,  I kinda had a feeling that it might be around 36,000 lbs. but wanted to know for sure.  Hmmm, i can go another 7000 lbs if i  had the room.  About the only way i could get up to that weight is if somebody wanted me to store gold bars for them...........lets see, gold hit $1000 an ounce today so 7000 lbs would easily pay for my retirement. ;D