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Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: TomC on July 23, 2006, 07:09:54 AM



Title: Over the road A/C
Post by: TomC on July 23, 2006, 07:09:54 AM
As reflected in some of the recent posts, some are keeping the over the road A/C system.  These are typically 10 ton units (a roof top unit is one ton) that are sized to keep 45 heat producing people cool.  While they are gigantic systems that can double as a refrigerator, the cost to keep them running, the cost of fuel from the compressor drag and fan drive, the extra space they take up that could be used for other things, I don't know why they are kept in.  Not saying my way is right, but as example, I have a 40 x 102 transit with many large windows with just a light tint.  I have 3 roof airs that usually 2 will do the job with 3 needed when in over 100 degree weather.  Instead of powering a big belt drivin compressor that takes around 25hp with a fan that takes another 10hp, I'm powering the roof tops that essentially take about 2hp each to run.  Granted you have to run your generator while going down the road, but remember these gen sets are made to be run for 10s of thousands of hours (I have a truck driver friend that just got rid of there truck with a PowerTech 7.5 compact lay down with a 3 cylinder Kubota that had over 23,000hrs on it without engine overhaul!).  And on top of this, in the 12 years that my three roof tops and generator have been in, I have had zero problems with them.  I bet you can't say that about your over the road A/C!  And if I do have a problem, just pull one off and put a new one on for about $600 and about 2 hours worth of work.  Good Luck, TomC


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: Nick Badame Refrig/ACC on July 23, 2006, 07:42:21 AM
Hi Tom,

To Each His Own.... with respect of course!

I kept my road air because it's needed while traveling in 90 + temps. Even in extreme temps like this, I only have to cycle the road air

maybe twice an hour for 5 to 10 min, then leave the blower running to circulate air. Works very well...

That is why a normal automobile's air condtioning system is sized from 4 to 5 tons. Way larger than your roof tops can deliver while in motion.

You need that capacity for quick cool downs when your vehicle is sitting in the sun, or even if you stop to do some shopping. A roof top will take hours to bring the

temps back to normal, where the road air will take 5 to 10 min.

Nick Badame-



Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: TomC on July 23, 2006, 08:21:55 AM
Nick- I can appreciate you using the over the road since you can keep the system in top condition for the price of wholesale parts. But most of us don't even know where to take these units to have them worked on.
Just a comment on temp draw down.  I came back to the bus after an outing where it had gotton unseasonably hot.  The inside of the bus was at least 90 (the thermostat was pegged).  I fired up the gen and started all three A/C's and in 30 minutes was down to a comfortable dehumified 80 degrees with it being down to where the A/C's started to cycle at 72 (where I have them set) within an hour. Granted, if you have just one roof top, it won't do it.  Just relating personal experience.  Good Luck, TomC


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: DrivingMissLazy on July 23, 2006, 09:01:20 AM
Nick, how do you keep it operating while shopping? I assume you do not leave the DD ideling? Just run the blowers?
Richard

Hi Tom,

To Each His Own.... with respect of course!

I kept my road air because it's needed while traveling in 90 + temps. Even in extreme temps like this, I only have to cycle the road air

maybe twice an hour for 5 to 10 min, then leave the blower running to circulate air. Works very well...

That is why a normal automobile's air condtioning system is sized from 4 to 5 tons. Way larger than your roof tops can deliver while in motion.

You need that capacity for quick cool downs when your vehicle is sitting in the sun, or even if you stop to do some shopping. A roof top will take hours to bring the

temps back to normal, where the road air will take 5 to 10 min.

Nick Badame-




Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: ceieio on July 23, 2006, 09:12:14 AM
I wish my bus air worked!  I only have two roof airs and need to add something else to cool it off when going down the road.  Most of the bus air parts and pieces are still in there, but I think they need to be replaced (fins seem brittle on the condenser? in the side for example).  I guess I will add another air somewhere (near the driver please!) and call it a day.

Craig - MC7 Oregon


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: Nick Badame Refrig/ACC on July 23, 2006, 12:25:19 PM
Richard,

You wrote:
Nick, how do you keep it operating while shopping? I assume you do not leave the DD ideling? Just run the blowers?
Richard


You misunderstood me, I'm talking about recovery time after you shut down and go shopping for a while.
Nick-


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: DrivingMissLazy on July 23, 2006, 01:26:03 PM
Now I understand. Thanks, Nick.
Richard

Richard,

You wrote:
Nick, how do you keep it operating while shopping? I assume you do not leave the DD ideling? Just run the blowers?
Richard


You misunderstood me, I'm talking about recovery time after you shut down and go shopping for a while.
Nick-


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: Ednj on July 23, 2006, 06:15:52 PM
Yesterday, I let my over the road A/C run while refueling, Thats how long it took to freeze up.
I still don,t have enough return and supply, but it works.
 ???


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: Nick Badame Refrig/ACC on July 23, 2006, 06:18:38 PM
Ed,

Look's like your trip is going well. That's great!

Hope to se ya in Delawere..

Nick-


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: Ednj on July 23, 2006, 06:26:20 PM
Yes Nick I will be in Delaware.
Check your e-mail.


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: Beatenbo on July 23, 2006, 06:51:00 PM
Nick is right. Every need is different. I drive 30-35 K a year and a good bus air is a plus for me. Sure a worn out system can eat your lunch  I've gone as much as 2 years at a time with out even adding freon on other buses. I have had about 3 major brands roof airs and never thought they were adiquate. I have had bus air that would drop inside temp 20-25 degrees from outside. I have never seen roof airs frost the windows during the day. Some people rip out all heat and air before conversion. I hate to thnk of no good old bus heat in Jan and Feb. My compessor is bad and I'm replacing this week I can't wait to get my bus air back running.
Again every need is different. As the old saying "what ever floats your boat, or what ever cranks your motor !! " I'll take bus air any day/ I love hearing my wife say, "it's cold in here."


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: Hobe on July 24, 2006, 05:00:05 AM
With 4 inches of foam in the roof and the inside skin isolated from the the outside ribs. And 2 inches in the side walls. I can run ome roof top in 90 plus weather. And two in Airizona in 100 plus. How your roof tops work is in direct relations to how good your insulation is in your coach. At $3 a gallon for fuil I would reather run a gen set at about 1/2 gal. a hour than the coach motor pulling that 25 ton air . Just my idea of 20 plus years of travel. Fred


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: novice on July 24, 2006, 08:30:18 AM
Nick, is the temp the main reason you prefer the bus air while traveling?  We have three CruiseAir's and since our bus air is not working at the moment, we ran the generator and had all 3 CruiseAir's on, which seemed to cool the bus quite nicely.  If temp is not a factor, do you have any other reason for not wanting to run your generator all day plus the bus engine?  If running the bus air subtracts 2 miles a gallon,  (I'm not sure of the exact mileage numbers we may be talking about, but thought 4 MGH to 6 MPG).at 60 MPH that uses 5 gallons more fuel  in one hour.  If the generator uses 1/2 or maybe 3/4 per hour, it seems the better way to go.  Am I missing some part of the puzzle?


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: Nick Badame Refrig/ACC on July 24, 2006, 08:43:26 AM
novice,

I'll say it again, To Each His Own..   Nothing but personal prefrence.

I like the coach air, Thats me!   You may be different!  Thats you!    That also apply's to anything about your bus.

I'll repeat my reasons that are stated above, I like to cool the coach from 95+ to 70 in 5 to 10 min. thats it! Then I shut it down...

I also use my gen set and Cruiseairs if I have a half hour to wait for them to catch up. If not, I fire up the coach air.

Nick-



Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: novice on July 24, 2006, 09:02:01 AM
Thanks Nick, didn't mean to sound picky, just wanted to be sure I understood.


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: Buffalo SpaceShip on July 24, 2006, 09:25:55 AM
Usually, the older the coach chassis, the more maint. that goes into coach A/C and chasing down leaks and freon. An old 4104/06 with R-12 and 40+ year-old compressor... fuhgetaboutit! A newer MC9 or 102 with R-22 and modern compressor... keep it.

Personally, I'd love to have ten tons of A/C when I needed it, but the decision to remove mine was made long before I purchased my '78 4108 conversion... and it was probably the right decision, once maint. became too overwhelming.

Every coach, conversion, and converter is different.
Brian Brown
Longmont, CO



Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: Beatenbo on July 24, 2006, 06:35:01 PM
I am not a know it all, but I have never noticed a big difference in fuel mileage running my bus air. Every MCI I've owned seems to average around 7 mpg air or not. I've only got 8 mpg once You couln't convince me it would make 2-3 miles per gal difference cruising on the interstate. I can see the difference running my gen constanly.


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: Bosshosssport96 on July 27, 2006, 09:34:00 PM
Couple of questons...........If the compressor in a roof top air conditioner is a 1 ton,and a automobile is a 4 to 5 ton,what tonage compressor is in a 14/15 mini bus that has an carrier air system?

When  compressors go bad,are they repairable,or is it just cheaper just to go out and buy a new one.?

Haven't been able to find a junk yard to remove such a system here in San Diego nor anywhere in Calif ( I'm sure their here,just can't find one) 


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: FloridaCliff on July 28, 2006, 06:25:42 AM
Boss,

I have seen the ones your talking about.

I think they are a standard roof top unit that is supplementing the factory air conditioning.

Cliff


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: Bosshosssport96 on July 28, 2006, 07:15:25 AM
The ones that I'm thinking about are are the ones that have the ceiling mounted evaporator in them,with maybe the condenser being  under the body.I think its a Carrier Transit Cold system....Frank


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: FloridaCliff on July 28, 2006, 07:27:35 AM
Frank,

Gotcha,

I would be interested in what you find out or other know on those also.

Cliff


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: Gary W on July 28, 2006, 10:29:32 AM
Nick I have a question for you , you said you cycle your over the road air for a few minutes then just leave the blower on to circulate the  air. Did you install a swith to cut the compressor in and out? I have a 1986 MCI 102-A 3 and the way I read the wiring diagram the air conditioning compressor runs all  the time when  when the A/C switch is on,  adding heat to the coach when it gets to cold.

Gary


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: H3Jim on July 28, 2006, 11:29:52 AM
I really hate being hot, and that bus air is really great to have.  My bus is a 1995, and although I have had to charge it once in 2 1/2 years, its a small price to pay for that air that works so well.  The rooftop is nice, but is nowhere near the capacity of the bus air.  Unless it starts $1,000 me to death, I plan on keeping it for a long time.  Driving at 65 or 75, seems to require more cool air than just sitting, and with those big windows I have...

NO way am I pulling that bus air out, I'm with you Nick


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: Bosshosssport96 on July 28, 2006, 02:58:59 PM
Ok Nick.where are you brother...........*smiling*....time to answer some questions that a few of us have for you............Frank


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: TomC on July 28, 2006, 03:24:47 PM
The Carrier transcold units typically use "car" type compressors.  One of the favorites is the A-6 compressor which is the old GM design 6 cylinder with wabble plate.  It puts out 12.6 cu in, up to 6500rpm on 12v or 24v, and 60,000btu max. On our Thomas buses, they'll use two of these to power one A/C in the front and back.  As compared, the big Carrier compressor for buses is 37cu in output.  Because those large compressors cost $1,250 exchange rebuilt compared to a Sanden car type (that you could also run two of them for almost the same power output) compressor is about $350 new with new clutch. Just thought you'd like to know. Good Luck,TomC


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: Bosshosssport96 on July 28, 2006, 04:19:45 PM
Thanks a lot Tom.....Frank


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: Nick Badame Refrig/ACC on July 28, 2006, 06:08:17 PM
Nick I have a question for you , you said you cycle your over the road air for a few minutes then just leave the blower on to circulate the air. Did you install a swith to cut the compressor in and out? I have a 1986 MCI 102-A 3 and the way I read the wiring diagram the air conditioning compressor runs all the time when when the A/C switch is on, adding heat to the coach when it gets to cold.

Gary

Gary,
Yes, I cycle the blower with the A/C / Heat Switch.  I do that by having the heat valves closed off. The blower will still cycle when the switch

is in the heat position. I will flip the switch up to A/C for a few min's, than flip it down to heat to only circulate cool air.

Frank,
I think Tom C answered most of your questions. But, you should still be able to find thoose Carrier TransitCold systems in some salvage yards!

Good Luck Guy's
Nick Badame


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: Nick Badame Refrig/ACC on July 28, 2006, 06:15:05 PM
Ok Nick.where are you brother...........*smiling*....time to answer some questions that a few of us have for you............Frank

Frank,

The temp was 99 today, so even I had to take on some service calls. I think the 5 of us did 31 jobs today...

And just so you guy's know, There is 12,000 btu's in a ton. And 9,000 btu's in a horse power! And I'm sure all of you

Know ... BTU's = British Thermo Uits!  And if I remember correctly, An average person gives off 1,000 Btu's of heat per hour..

Nick-


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: TomC on August 02, 2006, 10:18:18 PM
I think you meant British Thermal Units.  Just like it is youths, not youts.  Good Luck, TomC


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: Nick Badame Refrig/ACC on August 03, 2006, 03:54:42 AM
Hey Thom,

Da ya knw whre eye caan fid a goud spl cker? ;D

Nik-


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: DrivingMissLazy on August 03, 2006, 05:25:54 AM
You might check the Help board. Seems like I recall putting a couple of them up there. LOL
Richard

Hey Thom,

Da ya knw whre eye caan fid a goud spl cker? ;D

Nik-


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: faster_freddie on August 03, 2006, 11:15:32 AM
We insulated our 1987 MCI 102A3 with the new material from radient tech and our bus keeps very cool in relation to he heat outside.  In fact in 100+ degree heat here in Nevada we can be in the bus with just the windows open and it's nice.  Even though this is the best insulation I've ever seen (we've had 6 bus conversions), we're still keeping the OTR air and heat systems in place. We always seem to travel in the extreme heat or when it's very cold out and we've never been cool enough going down the road with roof ac's even with good insulation.  And when it's cold outside well, I'm sure you already know, BUS HEAT is needed!

From what I can figure the best way to route the factory ac is to run a box down both sides of the interior walls at the floor (from the two factory ac vents) and instaling vents every few feet?  I would be interested in input of different ideas for cooling and heating going down the road using the factory system, that anybody may have.  We also kept the driver ac defrosters, etc.?

If anybody would like to e-me off the board to discuss this: fn1@mac.com

Fred


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: tucsontattoo on August 03, 2006, 06:28:18 PM
Hey! or is that hay, anyway, why isn't Frank Allen in here. If Boss Hoss and I keep striking out on finding a couple salvaged transit air systems I will install a system like his (Frank Allen) to get me by until I find something better. I will not make that drive from Tucson to the beach again without some type of engine driven A/C system and I know I can scratch up enough automotive stuff to put it together. 
     Would like to talk with him again and have lost his e-mail . Anyone have it? With that system and running my roof tops I'm sure we will be cool enough. anyone wanta tell me how much fuel that will take ;D
                                   Nice to be back..............Gotta run Tucson


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: Bosshosssport96 on August 03, 2006, 08:43:47 PM
Greg..........his E-mail address is kingfa39@aol.com...................Frank


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: kingfa39 on August 05, 2006, 09:27:18 AM
go to this web site http://users.myexcel.com/roncarter/splitSystem tells the general quetions you may have. mine works great
Frank Allen
4106


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: Christyhicks on August 05, 2006, 11:26:36 AM
Unfortunately, due to the million degree days we've been having here on Oklahoma  >:(, I missed most of this conversation  :'(, but I have to chime in and agree with Nick. We, too, are hvac people and we also re keeping the bus air.  Sure, the rooftops work OK in normal conditions, but the problems I've seen so far are, that occasionally, a generator quits, and also, when you're running down the road in 100 degree temps, heading west in the afternoon, even the best insulated coach lets hot air in the picture window of a windshield!  I once suggested that we pull the window blind around and let my husband's head just stick through it, so he could still see out the windshield as he drove, but he nixed that idea!   :-\

I think for us, it's also a definition of  "being cool and comfortable".  Everyone has their own definition of cool, but for my hubby, cool is 70 degrees, no warmer.  Some people are more comfortable in 80 degrees, and some feel fine even at 85.  If it's 85 outside, and your coach is insulated so well you can open your winds and feel fine, well, for us that would mean that the breeze blowing through was cooling us by evaporating our SWEAT off our skin! ;)  Sure, maybe that's because we've spent so much time in the heat, that when we relax, we want to be comfortable.

I also like the idea of being able to choose the air conditioning system I want to use at that time, based on what will work the best and fit our needs.  I also like having the backup, and I can assure you, if for any reason the 120v systems quit at night  :o, yep, our bus will be at the local Flying J where we can idle and cool to our hearts content!   ;D  You do NOT want to live with Larry if he has to sleep when it's hot!  ;)

Anyway, I agree that each should do as they wish, but in my opinion (for what it's worth, which isn't much), the cost difference between running a generator and running the bus air, in diesel used, or the wear and tear on the bus engine as compared to the generator engine, well, it just seems like that would be splitting hairs.  The cost of building and maintaining these busses far outweighs what extra I may spend on diesel running the bus air as we travel on down the road. . . it all goes back to how much you want to spend to be comfortable.  Shoot, if we were concerned so much about mileage and fuel usage, we'd haul our tent on the back of a motorcycle! ;)

Also, each person has their own idea of what is worth spending money.  Some would suggest that solar panels, controllers, special batteries, etc., are the way to go and that the investment pays for itself, others say that for the money and energy spent designing, installing and maintaining solar systems, you are ahead of the game by just running your generator.  I think it's more about what you like doing, what interests you, where your knowledge lies, and what you consider to be more important that dictates the decisions concerning which components you keep or dump, which ones you buy, which ones you admire but pass on. 

That's what's so great about these forums, as there are so many differing opinions that somewhere along, as you read all of the posts, you come to a conviction of what will work best for you.  If that hasn't happened, well, keep reading, it will! ;D
 


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: tucsontattoo on August 05, 2006, 04:27:13 PM
Thanks for the help Frank. Gonna get started gathering parts. For any of you who haven't seen Franks road A/C in his 4106 It's well Worth checking out!!! Defiantly an alternative to running inadequate generator driven rooftops for those of us who don't have bus air. As for the big generator driven basement stuff well, I could tell you I don't want to give up the bay space or would have to remodel and move to much stuff around. Truth is if I had the money I'd have the big stuff and in a brand new prevost please. But I'm more of a beer on the beach guy than a cocktails on the island at mission bay guy. Besides, my kids would have that new prevost craped out in no time
                           My two cents worth.................Tucson





Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: kingfa39 on August 06, 2006, 06:48:54 PM
Tuscon, the reason i didnt jump in here is because there are many who dont beleive in the way i did this job, i wanted to run two evaporators off a single compresser, they said it wouldnt work , also they said the units were too small to do the job, the roof airs are 13500 btu each, my dash units are 22500 btu each, DUH i meant a lot of oposition from different people on the boards, so what i did is just enjoy my 72 degree bus with no gen set running and quit talking about it. If someone asks about it i tell em what i did and how it works, outside of that i stay silent. I respeck others opinions on things but sometimes they just dont make a whole lot of sence. Thats the way i feel about the a/c for the bus. the original system had about ten tons , but it was designed for 35 pepole, they all have body heat and the tonage is needed, it is not needed when we only have a few in the bus. anyway mine was gone long before i got it
Frank Allen
4106


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: travelingfools on August 07, 2006, 10:51:26 AM
Any chance someone could post a pic of their road ac. I was just curious how much room it actualy takes up. As we are still looking for a bus, and while reading this, Im inclined to want to keep the road ac (until Im convinced otherwise) and am thinking that it would be worth it to have it overhauled right off the bat and hopefully get many years of service from it.


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: Barn Owl on August 07, 2006, 10:57:58 PM
Strap one of these to you bus, you could get penguins as pets.


Title: Re: Reefer Units
Post by: TomC on August 08, 2006, 07:42:45 AM
Actually, there is not to much difference between the reefer unit and the over the road A/C except the big engine is turning the compressor compared to the reefers engine.  You could use many of the components to make your own A/C which would be very powerful, since the reefer units are rated to cool a 53x 102 x 110high trailer down to sub freezing-on ice cream trailers down to -20! Then you wouldn't need a refrigerator, just big meat hooks inside the bus.  Good Luck, TomC


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: Busted Knuckle on August 08, 2006, 08:06:50 AM
Strap one of these to you bus, you could get penguins as pets.

Barn Owl,

You bring back many memories with that picture of an old thermoking! Those were the best reefer units they ever made ! They worked like a charm, hardly ever had a problem with them, very low maitance units, but then the manufactures had to go and monkey with success and quit producing those and start building mega componet "smart unit's that create head ache after head ache ! Boy am I sure glad I got ot of trucking !

TomC you are very correct my friend ! Not all A/C - Refridgeration repair men know what it takes to make bus air work properly, but if you find one that knows about working on these babies he usually can make a bus cool cold ! BK  ;D


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: Dallas on August 08, 2006, 09:00:08 AM
Strap one of these to you bus, you could get penguins as pets.

Barn Owl,

You bring back many memories with that picture of an old thermoking! Those were the best reefer units they ever made ! They worked like a charm, hardly ever had a problem with them, very low maitance units, but then the manufactures had to go and monkey with success and quit producing those and start building mega componet "smart unit's that create head ache after head ache ! Boy am I sure glad I got ot of trucking !

TomC you are very correct my friend ! Not all A/C - Refridgeration repair men know what it takes to make bus air work properly, but if you find one that knows about working on these babies he usually can make a bus cool cold ! BK  ;D

I can't tell from the picture, since I don't see that well anymore, but I do remember some of those nasty old Mercedes engines that always kept you hopping!

Mooo things would run all day and all night, then get a hair up they're collective Moooos and quit about 15 minutes after you went to sleep..... always when you were hauling ice cream or the all important strawberries that had "ryans" tossed on top of the load.

To get around the ryan, we'ed toss them a few times as hard as we could and blow some ice blocks on the load. Usually about 5 blocks of ice would keep the load cool for a short time.

When you got it to the repair place, the Mooo thing would start with no problem and run like a dream until you tried to go back to sleep again.

Just some thoughts from an OLD truck driver


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: Hi yo silver on August 08, 2006, 09:31:24 AM
...and I said to myself, "Self, they're talking about over the road a/c.  Now's your chance!"
Dallas, it will interest you to know, I decided against the bus  we "up north" we discussed, based primarily on yours and others' valuable input regarding what is involved in retrofitting several basic conversion components after the interior has already been finished.  I know it can be done, but after all was said and done, it just wasn't the bus for us.  The important thing to recognise is that if we all just agreed with the other guys opinion rather than presenting the other viewpoint, this board wouldn't be of much use, other than entertainment.  So, thanks again everybody!

Now, on the the next MCI of interest; One of the few things I don't like about it is that it has the original bus a/c.  Haven't spoken directly with the seller yet to know whether it works, but was told it's still R-12.  Anybody got a ballpark idea of the cost to convert to newer refrigerant?  It's an MC9.

Dennis
Hi Yo Silver!     


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: kyle4501 on August 08, 2006, 09:46:14 AM
I haven't used it yet, but there is a drop in replacement for R-12 called 'FREEZE-12'. U wouldn't need to change anything if U used it.

Just a thought,
kyle4501


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: Hi yo silver on August 08, 2006, 10:26:11 AM
Hmmm, Freeze 12, huh?  Anybody got more on this stuff?
Dennis
Hi Yo Silver!


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: kyle4501 on August 08, 2006, 11:16:52 AM
I believe NAPA has it. I have seen it on 'the net', just search freeze12. If I remember right, U don't need a license to buy it either.



Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: FloridaCliff on August 08, 2006, 12:18:48 PM
Hi Yo,

I have a brand new side tapper and a can I would list on the "Spare tire " if your interested

Cliff


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: Hi yo silver on August 08, 2006, 12:31:23 PM
Cliff,
Thanks but I haven't got this bus yet. Sorry, didn't mean to mislead you.  I just trying to figure out some costs I will run into if I buy it. (It's OK to roll your eyes.)  This must be a new refrigerant.  Had not heard of it.
Dennis


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: Buffalo SpaceShip on August 08, 2006, 01:25:26 PM
Driver's Air??

I think that Frank's solution would be perfect for those of us that DON'T have OEM bus air or need to ditch ours for whatever reason. In our coach, the front is just horrible with heat loss (too many windows and not enough insulation), so I'm thinking of doing the entertainer coach thing and making a smaller passage door or curtain at the step up to the main parlor of the coach. Maybe put the entertainment system behind the driver's seat and cordon off another area on the other side. When parked we won't have the massive heat/cooling loss out the front. When driving, I can keep ""my space" and "their space" separate and just open the door/ curtain when we need to converse with the family. The co-pilot's seat would stay where it is. Would be a nice retreat for the Missus and me, even.

The existing driver's defrost will heat that area fine. Then I'd want a driver's A/C system, not at all unlike a S&S Class C or Class A with driver's A/C. Sounds like running the Freon lines and figuring out the 12v-from-24v would be the most difficult issues with using a system from a full-size van or something.

Once the front is out of the equation, the two roof-top A/Cs off the genset should be able to cool the back 30' of my coach, I'd think.

Sound doable? Maybe $2k or so?

Should I have started another thread?  ;D

Brian


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: Christyhicks on August 08, 2006, 04:24:10 PM
Ha ha ha, thinking about that Freeze 12.  . . we got rooked into working on the Red Dot and factory airs on a bunch of garbage trucks for our local Waste Management company.  Long story, but they gave us two bays and we sent a guy or two out, once or twice a week, and worked on all of their a/c units because the local Mac shop would only take one at a time and would let it sit there for up to a week while they were working on it.  >:(

 We could get anywhere from 5 to 10 trucks going each time we went out, depending on whether we were changing compressors and hoses or just repairing electrical things (like where the mechanics would snip a short piece of wire between the relay and switch so they could use it to repair a wire somewhere else. ;))  We used Freeze 12 in the R-12 units without a problem. 

Thank goodness, they finally purchased new trucks and we managed to get out from under that "deal" without hurting anyone's feelings.  As it is, they've always given us excellant service and do little "extras" because we kept those guys cool when no one else would.  :-* Ahhhh, those were the days. . ."do anything for a buck" , ha ha.  Don't miss working on those trucks, but it was an "experience." ;D  Christy Hicks


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: Dirtball on August 08, 2006, 05:33:23 PM
I have OTR and cruiseairs. we use our bus like some folks would use a chevy van for shopping ,dinner ,vet appts. Otr lets us rapidly heat and cool. on these sometimes short trips. The cruiseairs with Copeland comporessors have failed at times , while the busair has never let me down. .......1996 DL3,  DDS60


Title: Re: Body BTU
Post by: TomC on August 09, 2006, 07:47:11 AM
We produce about 270-500btu's of heat.  Just to let you know.  Good Luck, TomC


Title: Re: Body BTU
Post by: HighTechRedneck on August 09, 2006, 10:19:23 AM
We produce about 270-500btu's of heat.  Just to let you know.  Good Luck, TomC
So can we interpret that to mean that you are cool?   ;)

Just to weigh in on the topic, after much thought and the experience of crossing the country during the heat wave, I have decided to keep the OTR air as a backup to the electric air conditioners I will be installing.


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: Nick Badame Refrig/ACC on August 09, 2006, 06:23:49 PM
Tom,

Did you mean 270,000 to 500,000 btu's?

Cause 270 - 500 isn't much!

Nick-


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: Bosshosssport96 on August 09, 2006, 06:33:22 PM
Are  automotive type compressors rebuildable,or is it just cheaper to buy one....Frank


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: Barn Owl on August 09, 2006, 10:24:30 PM
I would not rebuild. Go with new or find one off a low mileage wreak.


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: Christyhicks on August 10, 2006, 04:12:33 AM
Man, we have to replace the compressor on a 2002 Dodge Van, so they tell us it's a "dealer item".  We call the dealer and price it. . . just under $800. :o  Yes, I said, $800 for a compressor for a van. . .a van. .. not a semi, not a bus, a stupid 1/2 ton van! >:(  Don't have a choice about replacing it either, as the whole from of the compressor fell off. :D   Needless to say, we are exploring other options to secure that compressor,  ;).  Christy Hicks


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: FloridaCliff on August 10, 2006, 04:24:13 AM
Christy,

I just bought a new aftermarket compressor off of ebay two months ago, works like a champ.

Here's one for a  Dodge van 140015702674

$195.00

Cliff  


Title: Re: Human BTU's
Post by: TomC on August 10, 2006, 08:30:57 AM
Nick- yes that's correct-we produce about 270-500btu's of heat (as researched on the web), depending on if your skinny or fat (hence I think I produce about 600btu's).  If you round that out to say 300btu's per person and have 42 people in the bus, that's 12,600btu's.  Course it would be higher when they first get on the bus on a hot day.  Even 500btu's times 42 would be 21,000btu's.  When you consider the bus A/C is somewhere between 40-60,000btu, then you can see why they make them so large.  Good Luck, TomC


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: JackConrad on August 10, 2006, 08:48:43 AM

Is that per hour?  Jack

we produce about 270-500btu's of heat (as researched on the web), depending on if your skinny or fat (hence I think I produce about 600btu's).


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: Christyhicks on August 10, 2006, 03:58:26 PM
Thanks Cliff, but I had looked at that one and e-mailed the seller. . .am waiting for a reply.  It is a rebuilt, but I agree it's a lot less money, if it will work.  It's just hard to see for sure if it will work for ours, so I asked for a front view or cross reference confirmation.  There are three different compressors that can be put on this van, and of course, ours is the most expensive.  The parts house we use, ordered the one they thought it was, and it was wrong, so they had to ship it back.  Now, it looks like they can't even order the correct one unitl August 21, which means my poor guy will be hot till then. 

I'm hoping to find one sooner, because since he's a service guy, he doesn't want to switch vans temporarily. . . those guys are funny that way. . .they have everything where they want it and would rather take the day off than run service out of another truck.  Of course, it's too hot to take off, so he insists on driving that hot truck.  Wouldn't be so bad, except it was 108 today, and I worry about him.

I found one just like what we needed, item # 8051177167, but, of course, it was sold when I found it.  I've e-mailed the seller to see if he has another.  This is the one we need for sure, so am keeping my fingers crossed.  Thanks again for your help, Christy


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: FloridaCliff on August 10, 2006, 04:51:14 PM
Christy,

Glad to help.

I can feel the pain, when one of my two favorite A/C persons's may have to pay retail ;D :o

Hope it works out.

Cliff


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: Busted Knuckle on August 10, 2006, 05:55:54 PM
I haven't used it yet, but there is a drop in replacement for R-12 called 'FREEZE-12'. U wouldn't need to change anything if U used it.
Just a thought,
kyle4501

I've been using "Freeze 12" since it hit the market and love it it works great! Also don't tell anyone I said this but I been chang'n expansion valves and just re-fill'n buses with R-134 leaving some 12 in it with great cooling results too!


But even if you print this and save it, and show it too me later I'll deny it till the end ! LOL! you know gubberments regs and such! LOL!


:) ;) :D It's gonna be a Blast at the "TN Fall Bus Bash" at Knuckle's check out the "TN Fall Bus Bash" Thread to see what all we got planned! ;D :o ::)


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: Busted Knuckle on August 10, 2006, 05:58:21 PM
Hmmm, Freeze 12, huh?  Anybody got more on this stuff?
Dennis
Hi Yo Silver!

Napa is where I get it! BK

:) ;) :D It's gonna be a Blast at the "TN Fall Bus Bash" at Knuckle's check out the "TN Fall Bus Bash" Thread to see what all we got planned! ;D :o ::)


Title: Re: Over the road A/C
Post by: Busted Knuckle on August 10, 2006, 06:03:59 PM
Man, we have to replace the compressor on a 2002 Dodge Van, so they tell us it's a "dealer item".  We call the dealer and price it. . . just under $800. :o  Yes, I said, $800 for a compressor for a van. . .a van. .. not a semi, not a bus, a stupid 1/2 ton van! >:(  Don't have a choice about replacing it either, as the whole from of the compressor fell off. :D   Needless to say, we are exploring other options to secure that compressor,  ;).  Christy Hicks

Christy try car-part.com hopefully you'll find one there! BK  ;D

 
:) ;) :D It's gonna be a Blast at the "TN Fall Bus Bash" at Knuckle's check out the "TN Fall Bus Bash" Thread to see what all we got planned! ;D :o ::)