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Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: cody on December 23, 2009, 09:50:46 AM



Title: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: cody on December 23, 2009, 09:50:46 AM
This thought came to me while reading another post and I didn't want to hijack it so heres a new one to play with, my iggle has headlights that really don't do what I want them to do, which is shine far enough down the road to see well, I've converted them to halegens and still I'm not satisfied with them, I've checked the voltage on them and it's right on the mark, I've cleaned and ensured the ground was proper, I've upgraded to the new square style and top of the line, night blinders and still not what I like.  I've resisted the urge to add running lights so far but many that I've talked to have the same problem and resolved it by adding additional lighting of some sort.  I imagine I'll have to add running lights to get the light that I want, my concern is that running down the road at highway speed in the dark I feel that I'm over running my lights, knowing the additional stopping distance requirements of a bus I compensate for what I feel is a lack of proper light.  Has anyone else resolved this issue other than adding additional lighting, I'd like to light up the road so that I can actually see the state line but I'd settle for just the county line lol.


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: HighTechRedneck on December 23, 2009, 10:02:21 AM
Whatever is done, I would encourage folks to keep it within legal limits.  I recently encountered an on coming vehicle that the [insert favorite term of endearment here] wouldn't shut down his aux lights and they were so blasted bright I had to pull off and wait till he went by.  Made me wish I had been in my old K-5 Blazer I used to have with the full rows of KC Nightlighters across the top and on the push bar.


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: luvrbus on December 23, 2009, 10:20:46 AM
Cody, if you still have the 4 light system install the high beams in all 4 places gives you better lighting and you still have the low beam just one way us cheap Eagle owners do it LOL 



good luck


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: PCC on December 23, 2009, 10:21:55 AM
I have a huge set of lights on and under the front bumper of any vehicle I drive, and can see shadows at 2 miles with all lights on.

Got stopped once to be sure all my lights were SAE certified, which they were, therefore legal.

I have not found any headlight system that gives me that seeing distance that I like when driving down a road at night at 65 - 70 MPH, depending on the posted speed limit. It is of concern to me to have all that weight and be driving blind.

I always add lights underneath, so I can see far enough ahead to know there is a turn in the road, or a person out there.

High Beams on-coming only serve to remind me that I must lower mine for the oncoming vehicles, but I want to have all the light I can out front, and adding solid auxiliary lighting is practically a must for our buses.


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: robertglines1 on December 23, 2009, 10:24:57 AM
Cody, have just used the conversion kit from pilot. available in round , large square ,and the 4by6 I have. with them you can use the new xenon bulbs that are higher watts than are available in halogen replacements..No one has called for dims yet but really increased my distance.I just replaced the low /high assembly ;left the regular high beams alone. Looks just like the original sealed beams...has place in back to install the new type. Bulbs were 16 dollars for pair and sealed beam conversion was about 50...One thing the ground on my lights was on a different spade on the back of the bulb.than the new ones.


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: cody on December 23, 2009, 10:33:37 AM
I have the 2 headlight large square sealed beam system, the zenon conversion, does that work by replaceing the sealed beam and does that include the housing? or any housing that can be used?  If I had the 4 beam setup I would do the hookup with all the bulbs running on high but having the 2 light system with only one on each side that rules out that idea.  I already have swapped them for the halogen system, next upgrade will be zenon I guess.


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: robertglines1 on December 23, 2009, 10:38:37 AM
It will be a direct replacement for the sealed beam ..Just take old sealed beam out and put conversion in ..same sockett same retainer.


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: cody on December 23, 2009, 10:52:39 AM
That sounds great does napa handle them or where can I find the conversion kits.


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: robertglines1 on December 23, 2009, 10:56:16 AM
Auto Zone had them listed but went on line and got them for a lot less..Will post source later as invoice is in shop..Piolt Headlight conversion


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: luvrbus on December 23, 2009, 11:24:18 AM
Cody, what was your voltage when you checked to be bright they need 13.2 to 13.8 volts


good luck


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: robertglines1 on December 23, 2009, 11:47:43 AM
WWW.Pioltautomotive.com (http://WWW.Pioltautomotive.com).....W1-HL12 conversion D.O.T. Y Sae approved....used new sockett ,Pulse Fx high watt bulb high temp #84790 avaiable most any where.


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: Paso One on December 23, 2009, 12:01:41 PM
Cody I also wanted to see farther down the road.:)

  I installed PIAA pencil lights  on my truck.  They were so good I took them off to install on the bus.

They are apparently "landing lights " they shoot way down the road. # 5864 extreme white.

They have others avaialble that only give long range, not much side vision but the regular lights usually handle up close.


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: TomCat on December 23, 2009, 12:05:38 PM
As long as you're using DOT lenses, you're fighting a losing battle.

I went E Code with my headlights, and have found the solution!

Before any naysayers jump on my neck and call me an outlaw, lawbreaker or terrorist, I've had my vehicles inspected several times by LEO, with no gigs.

If you're ready to start seeing at night, instead of wondering what's up ahead, snag a set of Cibie's (See Bee Uh) and move on to the next project.

Here is my vendor...a very knowledgable fellow...  http://www.danielsternlighting.com/home.html (http://www.danielsternlighting.com/home.html)

HTH

Jay
87 SaftLiner


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: Dreamscape on December 23, 2009, 12:32:19 PM
I agree with inadequate light at night on these monsters, that's why I prefer to drive in the daylight. When it's dark, I'm parked with my favorite beverage. I'll be watching for more news, good subject!

Paul


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: JohnEd on December 23, 2009, 01:53:15 PM
Cody,

I looked into this a year ago.  Much must have changed in terms of options but a lot of it is basic.  A few words:

1.  There are two Specs/standards of lights:  EURO spec.  That is the superior performer hands down and without question.  That is the light you find in MB and BMW and Porsche.  It is the spec that drives how well and in what shape the beam is focused.   These are the lights that you see with the distinct line of dark and light across the car in front"s trunk.  "The dark part" is what the on coming driver sees as a car coming at him with very dim lights though clearly visible.  ALL the light is focused in the usable area so maybe twice as much light is usable and benefiting you.  What would you want with light in the trees or even above 4 feet?  EURO SPEC simply "must" be legal....so many of the imports have them????  

SAE is our spec and I don't think it is legal anywhere in the world except here and Kanuck and only there cause they tolerate us.  Avoid this, if you can, even if you have to fudge a little.

Bulb size.  You can get bulbs of any wattage you wish.  Some will get you arrested the very first time you turn them on even in daylight.  It is THAT obvious to a cop....and thank God.  You can bump you bulb wattage a few watts and get some benefit and it won't be obvious IF you are using Euro Spec hardware and it is properly aimed.

When you measure "the voltage" for the headlight you MUST get the voltmeter "across" the bulb and that means your voltmeter leads must be connected to each side of the bulb at or near the bulb.  It  is only in a perfect world that you can put one lead on the bulb and connect the other lead to the frame.  And if your world were in fact perfect you wouldn't testing anything.  They make test leads that have a needle thingy in the lead so you can "pierce the wire you want to measure....really handy and not expensive.  If you are measuring 12 volts or so.....you have a grounding/supply problem.  If you go back to the battery you will see 12.6VDC.  If your bulb only shows 11.6v you are down a volt and that is what logic would say is a little less than 10%.  Ain't so, Mary Jane.  The light output is non linear and the last volt gets you way more light output than the seeming percentage.  Not a single vehicle that I have owned in the past 20 years has not ended up with cube relays wired into the headlight circuit so I got full bat/charge voltage at the bulb and I didn't do that for amusement.  The OEM relays, switches and all those connections sap voltage drop/current from the system.  Let there be light.  Use the standard system that is currently running the bulb as the "signal" for the relay so your OEM system is still intact but running along side the "new power source".  The cubes are rated for 30 amps and the standard headlight stuff is 15 or 20 amps.  Never had to replace one.

Never ever buy "sealed beam" headlights.  The only ones that I ever even saw that were up to snuff were a set of Hellas that had the exact same lens that my "non sealed" Euro spec had but also had the little bumps to allow aiming.  The optics must have been spot on but I change out my Halogen bulbs when they get that darkened coating inside the bulb glass.  14.5 Volts will push their performance to the design level and they don't last as long as in a system running them at 11 volts.  Every other year but I run with them on in daylight.

Bulb "temperature" is the wave length of the light that is emitted.  In clear dry weather those Euros with that brilliant blue white bulb seems to shine further and brighter down the road.  Problem is that in rain or even wet conditions that same bulb becomes inferior.  In fog it is decidedly dangerous unless  precisely focused....and even then.  There is a compromise temp that works marginally in fog and really good in clear.  It isn't that brilliant one but is especially bright Xenon.  I think you can select temp in Halogen also.   A  good Halogen is all you need....ever.

Light shape does matter.  The best and easiest is the 7 inch round.  Long the standard.  But most can be had in a superior performing size.  EXCEPT, those little square ones, quads.  Those are a waste of time regardless and you can spend a lot of cash learning that.  The be all end all for low beams is currently the "projector" light.  Razor sharp cut off and precision focus in some models.  You can get there more cheaply.  In fogs the little square shape seems to perform well cause the fog is focus differently than a all purpose light.  I have only the square ones but the absolute finest performers were a set of 6 volt 7 inch rounds I had years ago.

Fogs.  There is only one real color for fogs and that is my personal opinion.  Those little square fogs that are OEM and are "white" are worthless.  You think you can see thru fog with those puppies you are delusional or never had a amber pair.  Those bright "yellow" items are better than white but are inferior to dark amber although the bright yellow items are really "pretty".  You will have to look for amber cause it is not recognized as the "one and only " anymore.  Worth the search.  If you already own the white ones look for a replacement lens in amber or yellow.  If neither of those are available you can buy "BULBS" that shine yellow and they are not that spendy.  Amber cuts down on the light that gets transmitted thru the lens so you might consider getting bulbs with a higher wattage cause, while still illegal, you are putting out the same amt of visible light.  Over heard at the side of the road " you see officer, I am really only.....".

The best source of information on lighting is a guy named "Daniel Sterns".  He likes Pilot and Cibie but sells other brands. He doesn't like Hella.  I have six Hella lights on three vehicles and have used them for the past 15+ years and am delighted but I don't knows everything or even close but this proves to me that there is a chance he can be wrong.  But not much of a chance.  Even if you don't buy from him find out what the Mfr is for the replacement bulbs for brakes and backup and equip all your rolling stock with those.  I am really impressed with that.  He doesn't seem to want to provide those and take a markup, which I would gladly pay him, but just passes the info.  Can't beat that deal.

You should be able to get Euro spec for just about everything, cars and all, from Canada.  Sterns gets them and sells to US customers even though that used to be illegal.  All the US cars that are sold in Europe have ES lights and they are worth going for.

Most hi beams have no side illumination to pick up the deer and bicycles.  Using all four positions on a quad for hi beams would improve the reach but leave you exposed.  Hella makes a small light that is called the ALB for aux low beam.  It is a superb pattern....low flat and with a serious up sweep to the right to spot the deer.  The exact same patter as on my 7 inchers and worth every penny if you don't have that performance already.  I have it twice.

I like your comment about "over driving" you r lights.  I have a Lexus SC 400 for my distance work with Wifey.  Absolutely GREAT driving car and set up for rather hi speed cruising.  Engine is governed at 144 MPH and my tires are spec ed for 150 mph to be on the safe side. (joke there)   Superb lighting system.  I have projector low beams that put all the legal 55 watts where it should be and the high beams play with the lows when they are turned on.  Four lights and they cover all the angles or areas of interest.    In traveling eastern Or and Idaho I prefer to drive at night to make better time and given the lack of any traffic, the quality of the lights and the serious brake up grades I have made I feel comfy cruising at 100 mph in the flats and open desert.  One night i was scooting along with the cruise at 100, a glass of red in one hand and a joint in the other and the Grateful Dead blasting on the Nakamichi and I took a slow curve at speed.   I WAS KIDDING about the Red and the Joint...yesssh, what grumps.  As I came out of what could only be technically referred to as a curve, I spotted 10 (at least) deer "grazing" in the middle of that lonesome Black Top road.  My lights reach out a quarter mile plus straight down the road but in a curve....not so much.  I estimate I had maybe a 50 yard glimpse and was closing rapido.  I stood on those ABS wonders and the car filled with a loud and rapid DAH DAH DAH DAH.  While my heart was competing with that sound it turns out it was the ABS switching the wheels on and off.  The car stayed straight and true....aimed at this enormous friggen BUCK that was staring at me ...coldly.   Did you know that you can actually change the direction of a car with the brakes jammed on and not loose control?  I though so many things and discovered so many things that clear brisk evening at 2 am.  All those friggen deer were standing still.  All those friggen deer were looking straight at me.  All those friggen deer were headed in different directions.  They freggin looked like they were friggen set up for friggen grazing in the middle of the friggen road.  I used the word friggen a lot that night.  Well there was only one path that went thru the heard without hitting at least one of those critters and I only needed to adjust about 5 feet to the center line.  The huge buck was on my right heading towards the center and a doe was heading at me on my left.  I went thru the gap at a leasurely 80 MPH with the brakes thumping and, I have to admit, I pooed a little.  Ever seen that famous masterpiece called "the Scream".   I modeled it.  The nice thing about hitting a big buck at that speed is that, his being tall, you go under him and don't mess up the front of the car as bad as when you hit a doe.  Been there and done that.  Then the next day bought my first set of Hellas for that truck.  The Lex does not need more light....it needs to not be overdriven in a curve.  Really good lights can lead to over confidence.  But that was in the good old days....I am older by 4 years now and wiser.

Good luck with your lighting adventure Cody and all,

John



Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: JohnEd on December 23, 2009, 01:59:30 PM
What Jay said.

I interchanged DOT and SAE.  My bad... even though I thionk DOT uses SAE data.  And Sterns is the man.  Get your voltage up before you do anything elsea and make sure you are wiring for 30 amps for each circuit.

E spec is Euro Spec.

Thanks Jay,

Jolhn


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: akbusguy2000 on December 23, 2009, 02:24:45 PM
All about Cibies:

http://www.talbotco.com/cibie_main_frameset.htm (http://www.talbotco.com/cibie_main_frameset.htm)

tg


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: cody on December 23, 2009, 03:26:58 PM
Just got back from town, my voltage at the light was 13.6 on the right and 13.4 on the left.


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: rv_safetyman on December 23, 2009, 06:47:27 PM
Cody, I assume you are measuring the voltage at the headlight with the headlights on.  If the headlights are not on, all bets are off.  The voltages you measured, would suggest you have the engine running or a good battery charger on the system.  I would measure the voltage with the engine running to simulate the actual running condition.

The Eagle fuse system leaves a great deal to be desired (if you still have the OEM power distribution system).  Be sure to use relays mounted close to the headlight. 

Then go with the Euro spec headlights.

Jim


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: Iceni John on December 23, 2009, 06:48:21 PM
There is another less-expensive option to the excellent Cibie E-Code lights.

Because my SAE sealed-beam high beams were USELESS going through CA Central Valley fog and mist, I changed them to Neolites.   Made in India (does this make them I-Code?), reasonably good optics (the beam pattern is not quite as well defined as true European lights), took some finessing to make them fit because their mounting tabs were slightly off position (but easily "adjusted" with a modicum of brute force and subtlety), take standard H1/H4 bulbs, and cost only $30 each complete with bulbs of my wattage choice.   Are they as good as Cibies and Hellas  -  no, of course not, but they're pretty good for the price, and WAY better than the original SAE junk.

For now I have 55W bulbs in them;  because my bus does only 67 MPH tops and I wouldn't go that fast at night, even on roads I know well, that wattage is OK.   If I want to drive fast at night, my Audi's Hella HID projector headlights are the only way to go!   Later I may put some 12V aircraft landing lights where my front red flashers now are, obviously only for off-road use  -  some Skoolies find such lights useful when negotiating dirt roads and camping areas on moonless nights.

John  


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: luvrbus on December 23, 2009, 07:14:05 PM
Maybe a set of night vision goggles for you guys my Eagle has always had good head lights LOL. I would check my windshields I found out they make a world of difference in vision at night those little specs add up and distort the light and vision.



good luck


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: Van on December 23, 2009, 07:17:56 PM
Maybe some of you guys need heaters for yer bulbs, -20 degrees, and you wonder why things don't work right LOL! ;D ;D ;D

     Brrrr! Van


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: RJ on December 23, 2009, 10:20:03 PM
Cody -

Six posts above mine, Tony posted a link to one of the major Cibie suppliers, who is the fellow I get my E-code lamps from.

When you visit the page, click on the link "SAE Standard Euro-Code Headlamps", and that will take you to the page with the most common 2 & 4 headlamp styles.  Scroll down, second from the bottom, is the rectangular one that should fit your Eagle.

I have written about using E-code headlamps on this bbs, it's predecessor, BNO, and various Yahell busnut group bbs's for over 10 years, having used them since the late '60's.  I was often flamed for my "preaching", until Chris Christiansen (a gentleman who works in law enforcement, btw), put a set of Cibie's on his 4905 and validated what I'd been saying.  So if you feel adventuresome, search here and on BNO using Cibie and my username as your search criteria, lot's of reading material will be found!

As I've said before, altho the Cibie's are a little pricey, WHAT PRICE SAFETY???

FWIW & HTH. . .

 ;)


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: belfert on December 24, 2009, 04:21:00 AM
Does it make sense to only replace the low beam headlight with Cibie and leave the high beams alone?  I have a four headlight system with 6.5x4" lights and don't use the high beams much.

I notice Daniel Stern Lighting actually has prices listed now and the lights are $75 each.  I could justify $150 for the low beams, but another $150 for the high beams donesn't make as much sense.  I never knew what the E code lights cost before.

BTW, someone mentioned headlights on European brand cars sold in the USA.  They may have better headlights, but they aren't the same as in Europe because all cars sold in the USA need to have DOT approved headights.


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: cody on December 24, 2009, 05:00:47 AM
I'll check into the cibies, they sound like just what I'm looking for and yes the voltage checks were done at the lights with the lights on and the engine running.  I knew that somewhere out there somebody had figured out the solution to this problem cause I've heard too many bad things from other people about their headlights on buses being too dim too and it made sence to me cause I remember cars and trucks from the same time peroid having lighting that was lacking in intensity.  Now if only someone could come up with a replacement for the 8 track everything would be perfect lol.


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: JohnEd on December 24, 2009, 09:34:32 AM
Belfert,

YES!  That does make sense.  But not to replace the little square guy to do it.  Those can never be made good perfgormers due to their physical size and shape limitations. Optics, I am told. Smart move is to replace them entirely with 7 inch round or the big square ones.  For now you should install "aux low beams" and the ones masde by Hella are superb in shape/beam pattern.  There may be better in the round design.

I suggest you plan to convert.  I have never done this but I suspect you could take a walk thru a wrecking yard and just look for replacements in the 7 size or square USED.  They are made of glass and can even be buffed pnd the bulb, of course, changes.  Mine were $80 each and I bought 4 so if I could have gotten them for $10 i would have had no pride.  That would also provide you with the socket assembly to tinker with.  All of the E code is superior and beyond.  They all stand out with a distinctly NOT DOT pattern in the lens.  You'll see.

HTH

John

Cody,

8 trac?  I peed a little.  Thanks,

John


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: belfert on December 24, 2009, 11:02:34 AM
YES!  That does make sense.  But not to replace the little square guy to do it.  Those can never be made good perfgormers due to their physical size and shape limitations. Optics, I am told. Smart move is to replace them entirely with 7 inch round or the big square ones.  For now you should install "aux low beams" and the ones masde by Hella are superb in shape/beam pattern.  There may be better in the round

Do the 7" round headlights have both low and high beam in one unit?  I don't know if I could ever make 7" round headlights fit.  I'll have to look when I get home.  There is a large truck salvage operation 120 miles away in Southern MN.  I have been meaning to go there to look for a some dash parts out of a truck.  They have an operation here in Minneapolis too, but it is tiny compared to the main location.

I don't really think my headlights are that bad like some complain about, but if I can install Ecodes in the same openings for $150 that seems like a good deal.


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: bevans6 on December 24, 2009, 12:04:29 PM
I've had many cars with the quad rectangular lights, even if they are not as perfect optically as a round light they can be very good with the right lights.  I think I will be getting a full set of the Cibie's, they won't be my first set by a long shot!  The classic 7" round lights are indeed dual filament bulbs, both high and low beam in one unit.  I think my personal favorites have been the dual 5" round bulbs, with a dual filament high/low set and the second pair dedicated to high beam only.  I think the optics of a dedicated high beam are better than a dual purpose, in some cases.   With the right lens and reflectors that you get in  a high quality unit you don't need ultra high wattage either.  Oddly, those dual round lights are what my bus came from before the PO upgraded to the dual rectangular setup!


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: HighTechRedneck on December 24, 2009, 03:32:32 PM
I don't at all mean to be the grinch that stole light :D and this is all just my opinion.  But I do encourage anybody that makes substantial changes to their lighting to take their bus to a big dark empty parking lot at night.  Let a family member/friend sit in it and leave it running with the lights on.  Then get in your car and approach it as oncoming traffic normally would.  Just to be sure you are comforatable driving against them.  If you aren't, others won't be and the golden rule applies.  Judge objectively, if you were in a car facing them on a two lane road, could you still see enough to accurately control your car?

It is a sensitive issue to me because of the incident I described at the start of the thread.  And then just this afternoon it was raining and so cars all had their headlights on.  I was at the front of the line of traffic and a very new SUV with the modern style headlights was across the intersection.  It was about 3PM overcast/raining and those lights were so intense I had to block them with my hand.  They were the super high temp (bright white) lights and were several times brighter than other cars.

I'm sure they light up the night very nicely, but if the oncoming driver is moementarily blinded by them and as a result crosses the line and hits them, or goes of the side of the road into a ditch or worse, all that light ain't going to help them much.

Personally I think there are alot of headlights in use everyday out there that are either poorly aimed, misused (i.e. high intensity aux lights used in conjunction with low beams) or outrightly illegal, but the police are too busy with other things to put much attention on them.

Everyone wants to see better at night and I'm the same way.  I am just saying remember the other guy has to see too.


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: cody on December 24, 2009, 03:49:50 PM
MIke, if the lights are properly aimed and of legal wattage, (55 watts in Michigan) it shouldn't be a problem, where it becomes a problem is when people run with lights that are aimed too high or of the off road variety.  In michigan 55 watts is the legal limit for the lights on a vehicle, even the high projector beams of the sports cars are limited to 55 watts in michigan, what makes the difference seems to be the optics, my high beams are 55 watts and my lows are 35 watts, just what the law allows, where mine fail is where many of them fail, the lenses break up the beam to the extent it's capability is compromised.  With the design of the lense and the reflector a person can do what they want as long as it's within the allowable wattage, a clear slightly fluted lense seems to be the  choice for many, even the blue white bulbs are limited to 55 watts by law here.  What I'm wondering was if anyone had come accross a new design for the large square sealed beams that would shed some more light on the subject lol, now about that 8 track..


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: BEN MC7 on December 26, 2009, 01:40:04 PM
Cody--

Changing out the sealed beams for an HID plug in model will save you the time and pain trying to get Halogens to do something the HID's do with ease.  And they do it with much less power from your system.  I installed them on mine several years ago and they can best be described as dazzling.  You won't need your high beams, the white light is easier on the eyes late at night and the beam is a nice blanket of light.


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: robertglines1 on December 27, 2009, 05:46:52 AM
Cody, first of all I'm sorry about the bad link on conversion sealed beam..Mine came from.....WWW.truckcustomizers.com/mfg/pilot.html (http://WWW.truckcustomizers.com/mfg/pilot.html)        try this link..product 7.2 by 5.2    RAHLA131.5A....You will notice a different lens design....If you have any trouble (pm me)


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: robertglines1 on December 27, 2009, 05:54:21 AM
to get to your size come up on conversion kits....then press buy ....below will have view other headlights...your's will be there just have to work to find..


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: rv_safetyman on December 27, 2009, 07:17:14 AM
Per the other thread, here is a more direct link:  http://www.truckcustomizers.com/products/pilot-sealed-beam-headlamp-conversion-kits.html (http://www.truckcustomizers.com/products/pilot-sealed-beam-headlamp-conversion-kits.html)

As I questioned there, they are pretty inexpensive compared to Cibies  Wonder how good the optics are?

Jim


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: Tim Strommen on December 27, 2009, 05:52:41 PM
As I questioned there, they are pretty inexpensive compared to Cibies  Wonder how good the optics are?

As with anything, you get what you pay for.  The Pilots are what we call "free form reflectors", they use the reflector to direct all of the light that hits it to the correct position down-road.  This is different from a 'diffracting optics" setup like the Cibies - which use a reflector to direct the light from the filament to the right spot on the front lens and at the right angle, from which the lens on the front does to final tuning of the light direction/distribution.

The Cibies have ground-glass lenses on a metal reflector which is 13-step plated for smoothness, the Pilots are plastic lenses on plastic Vacuum-metalized reflectors - for full disclosure, yes I am biased towards the Cibies, but in fairness I purchased/tried the Hella and Pilot fixtures before the Cibies and found my self always looking for something better (which has stopped now that I have the Cibies...).

Also, remember that they are made in Europe where we don't have a favorable exchange-rate (like we do with China/Mexico) so they cost about $20-$30 more than they did two years ago just because of that...

-Tim


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: Iceni John on December 27, 2009, 10:22:49 PM
Just one request, please:

If you want to use HID lights (often mis-described as "Xenon"), PLEASE do not use the cheap-and-cheerless HID "retrofit kits" from Chaiwan that fit inside your existing halogen reflectors.   Yes, they put a lot of light on the road (and everywhere else) compared with non-HID systems, but that light is so badly controlled that it dazzles every approaching driver.   The reason is very simple  -  an HID's actual light source is almost a single point, compared to a several-millimeters long incandescent filament, so the reflector and/or lens is designed very differently to precisely focus the light.   HID capsules, whether D2R or D2S, must be in the appropriate light unit to prevent illegal and anti-social levels of dazzle.

To maximize an HID's effectiveness one should use a projector system along with an auto-leveler  -  my car's lights self-level every time I start the engine, to adjust for how the car is loaded and even how much fuel is in the tank.   This absolutely prevents dazzle and ensures that no photon is wasted!   Anything less than such a system is wasting the full potential of HIDs.   Also, don't be fooled into using high-Kelvin HIDs  -  4200K puts out more usable light than the blue 6000K or higher lights, and will scatter less in fog or rain.

Do it right, or keep with E-Code halogens (which are pretty darn good if correctly set up, especially for the speeds we should be driving a 30,000 lb vehicle at night).

John, not impressed by feral photons


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: cody on December 28, 2009, 06:25:43 AM
OK, I've digested the information and burped so what I'm thinking is that you get what you pay for like anywhere else and that cibie has a direct replacement for my large square system where there is one light on each side of the bus, ( a 2 light system with the high and low beam contained within the same sealed beam) and that cibie will plug directly into the socket that I have now and will light up the road like a champ and be legal here in michigan if properly aimed, (how am I doing so far?). The cibie has a metal reflector and a ground glass lense, that should never yellow like a plastic one is prone to do.  Correct any wrong information I put here please lol.


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: PCC on December 28, 2009, 06:41:51 AM
I have run Cibie for years, and one thing my rep taught me was to put a bead of silicone around where the bulb goes in, and any other grommetted access (depends on your light unit) opening, to ensure that moisture does not get in, ever. Moisture does cause corrosion even in a well made and top-of-the-line headlamp.

They have always been my best choice for visibility out front.


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: cody on December 28, 2009, 06:47:45 AM
What I have are sealed beam bulbs, I'm hoping to get direct replacement sealed beam bulbs from cibie, so there shouldn't be any moisture access points.


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: bevans6 on December 28, 2009, 07:13:48 AM
Cody, what we've been discussing are NOT sealed beams.  As far as I know, all of the H1 or H4 halogen type lights such as those from Cibie are non-sealed beam, where you choose and install a separate halogen bulb into the Cibie housing and lens arrangement.  they do come with pretty decent rubber covers for the back and in a bus application, water won't be a problem.  Sealing them up with caulk would probably increase the water resistance, but would make changing bulbs out more problematic.

When you order the Cibie's, you may need to order bulb's separately.  I notice that the Daniel Stern site has several options for bulbs.  If you order them elsewhere they may come as a kit with bulbs included.

brian


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: Tim Strommen on December 28, 2009, 10:02:09 AM
Cody,

    bevans6 is correct, the Cibie's/Pilot's are not sealed beams, they are bulb replaceable (and at $95 each for the 200mm/6"x8" fixtures, that eases the pain of changing bulbs - which are about $10 each).  Yes, Daniel Stern should have bulbs, or you can call Gunther Hansele at Talbot & Co (Aardvark International - five 6 two - 6 Nine 9 -eight 8 eight 7) to order the fixtures and I know he has the bulbs (I just picked up a replacement fixture last week from them).  Both Daniel and Gunther are great people to deal with, it makes it easy to recommend buying Cibie from either of them (I'm in the Talbot & Co camp though ;D).

All of the rest of your distillation of the info we presented is correct. ;)

-Tim


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: cody on December 28, 2009, 10:07:44 AM
K gotcha, the housings have to be bought separate but once you have them, your all set, then you get the replacement bulbs and just install them like the ones on my jeep.


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: JohnEd on December 28, 2009, 11:24:34 AM
Cody,

The suggestion to use "SILICONE" around ANY gasket/sealing surface is a superb one.  It is not a suggestion to use silicone cement or "caulk" but rather the SILICONE GREASER.  That will not complicate your bulb replacement down the road and will prevent the "O" rings from tearing or folding/rolling.  Great advice.  And put some silicone on the plug....squirt it up into the socket full before pushing the socket on the back of the lamp connection.  You are only using to much of the stuff if it is getting in your shoes.

I bought a 1/8 pint(much much cheaper)of silicone grease years ago and I grease every blessed 12V connection I make, including crimp on, and I think I have at least a 2 lifetimes supply.  YMMV

John


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: cody on December 28, 2009, 01:40:25 PM
John, sounds like not only a good idea but kinda kinky on the side too lol, I never knew I was involved with such a set of perverts here lol, now i know why I like you guys so much, it's a learning experience for someone as shy and innocent at I am.


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: Just Dallas on December 28, 2009, 02:10:01 PM
Removed


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: cody on December 28, 2009, 02:44:25 PM
A pair of those would look great on my chair lol.


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: JohnEd on December 28, 2009, 08:45:47 PM
Cody,

What?????  What???  I don't un.....???  HOLYY CRAP Cody....II never said anyth....  DANG!!!


Nice one guy,

John


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: cody on December 28, 2009, 09:29:25 PM
John, I have a power chair and libby is always worried about me out after dark without lighting, she feels I may get run over by a train or other fast moving vehicle, I even caught her one time conspiring with another busnut one time to duct tape a yellow flashing light onto a hard hat for me, lol.  Life can be so unfair sometimes lol.


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: Busted Knuckle on December 28, 2009, 10:34:52 PM
Cody,
What?????  What???  I don't un.....???  HOLYY CRAP Cody....II never said anyth....  DANG!!!
Nice one guy,
John

Cody I thnk he was referring to.......
Quote from: cody
John, sounds like not only a good idea but kinda kinky on the side too lol, I never knew I was involved with such a set of perverts here lol, now i know why I like you guys so much, it's a learning experience for someone as shy and innocent at I am.


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: cody on December 28, 2009, 10:45:45 PM
See what I mean? it should be a crime to be as shy and innocent as I am, I'm going to have to take notes so that when I get older I'll understand what it all means.


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: JohnEd on December 28, 2009, 11:00:33 PM
Thanks BK.  I didn't have the heart.


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: Dreamscape on December 29, 2009, 04:11:31 AM
I just hope no one prints this stuff in the BCM! ::)


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: cody on December 29, 2009, 05:53:14 AM
This stuff gets printed? :o


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: GDeen on December 29, 2009, 01:49:51 PM
Hello, newbie here. 

1999 Prevost XLV with 2000 Marathon conversion.  Headlights are terrible as it sounds is common in the bus world.  I was leaning towards HID conversion but now I wonder - particularly after reading the HID conversion comments in this thread. 

So, A:) anyone familiar with http://www.buzzhidlights.com/ (http://www.buzzhidlights.com/) ?  Will that be like putting lipstick on a pig?

      B:) anyone familiar with using the Cibie option on a Prevost and would that provide a better alternative to A? (I do have a single rectangular light-Ford I think)

Muchas Gracias.


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: JohnEd on December 29, 2009, 03:12:11 PM
GDeen,

Firstly, the hid used in conjunction with a "STOC" DOT HL will be a disaster for all that are driving against them.  Look at your lens, glass right(?), see all the tiniest little sand grain size texture on the inside?  That is DOT spec and it spreads the light out no matter how good the focus may be in the lens.  Look at the front of your bus at night and not that you can see things that are high when the low beams are on....triple the light energy and you interfere with oncoming.  Those BMW s use projector lens that focus like a razor.....even STOP signs are dim there is so little light up that high.

Color temp of 6000 is bad.  Looks good till you get in the wet or fog and then they are useless.  And your eyes are less sensitive to 6000 than 4000.  4000 gives you more usable light and it lets you see in the rain and fog VERY much better.  No sub for yellow fog lights, though.

If your lens isn't glass replace it all with E spec and be done with it.  If it is you might try some halogen bulbs.  And I didn't say increase wattage cause that is a bad idea.  Daniel Sterns can work up a valid solution for you. 

Read the recent thread about "fog lights" for an alternative to Sterns.  So very much good info in that thread that you should not miss.

What did Marathon say?  You can't be the first.  Maybe they have a lens/bulb that works and is cheap.   Now just figire the odds on that.

John


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: RichardEntrekin on December 29, 2009, 03:26:29 PM
Sorry to be late to the discussion.  The other folk who are touting the E code optics are on the money.

If you look at the second set of pictures http://www.newellclassic.com/forum/showthread.php?t=785 (http://www.newellclassic.com/forum/showthread.php?t=785) you will see photos I took of the stock setup on my Newell and the E code lights. I set the camera on manual, and I only replaced the lights on one side at the time I took the photo. You can see what people are talking about.

Second, I do research and development work on lenses that go inside your eye when you have to have cataract surgery. I know a little bit about optics. It is extremely important to have a properly designed reflector, lens, AND a bulb that is centered in the correct location to acheive good lighting. YES, a lot of the aftermarket stuff puts out a ton of light. You can see, but you blind everyone else. As bright as my lights are I have NEVER been flashed by an oncoming driver because the E code lights put all the light down on the road. It is hard to sort through the marketing and Ebay hype to know what works and what is dangerous. My advice is stay away from high power or "super bulbs" in DOT housings.

I got mine from Stern. He is not cheap, but neither is having a wreck because you can't see.

Cody, the other thing you might want to consider since you have the very small rectangular housings, is the smallest projector lights 50 mm in an E code setup.http://www.rallylights.com/SearchResult.aspx?KeyWords=projector (http://www.rallylights.com/SearchResult.aspx?KeyWords=projector)  You could make a polished SS plate with cutouts to fit the space left when you remove the square beams. That would look super cool.


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: cody on December 29, 2009, 04:14:56 PM
The lights I have are the big square ones with only one to a side, not the square quad setup.  The susuhanna lights I can't use, they are illegal in michigan becuase the high beam is limited to 55 watts and the low beam is limited to 35 watts according to michigan vheicle code.  More powerful that that are allowed for off road use only.


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: TomCat on December 29, 2009, 05:23:50 PM
The lights I have are the big square ones with only one to a side, not the square quad setup.  .... clip ....

Same as my 1987 S10 Blazer. I installed E Code Cibies from Daniel Stern and have found it impossible to outdrive them...even at 100mph. (I'm 56 years of age)

HTH

Jay
87 SaftLiner


Title: Re: making headlights that you can see by
Post by: Dave B on December 29, 2009, 05:31:23 PM
I have a 91 Prevost/Liberty and my headlights were also poor.  On the POG board I ran across a post where the Prevost headlights were replaced with those from a 1988 Ford F-150.  Being a little skeptical (cheap), I went to a wrecking yard instead of the Ford dealer and got a pair ($40 vs $200) and tried it.  First I replaced one and then compared the old and new and there was a noticeable difference using the original bulbs.

I am not saying that this is a better fix than the previously suggested Cibie or other lights, just that this is a simple option that improves the poor headlight performance on the Prevost with the single rectangular plastic headlight assembly.