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Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: RickB on October 19, 2010, 02:46:47 PM



Title: Motor serial # info
Post by: RickB on October 19, 2010, 02:46:47 PM
8v71 N serial # 08VF001622

Can anyone tell me the hp rating and the injectors this came with?

Also, does that # tell whether I have a block that can be equipped with an aftercooler?

And last but not least does DD tell what CR the pistons are?

I honestly did try Interstate diesel before I hit all of you up.

Just trying to keep folks busy is all :D

Thanks,
Rick


Title: Re: Motor serial # info
Post by: Nick Badame Refrig/ACC on October 19, 2010, 03:16:55 PM
Hi Rick,

According to your discription, your engine is very Heavy and is in your bus.. ;D ;D ;D

 ;)
Nick-


Title: Re: Motor serial # info
Post by: RickB on October 19, 2010, 03:35:25 PM
Oh you're alot of help Nick :D :D Keep it up and I;m gonna start asking why my recently installed 41cfm O5g is not freezing me out. That's what happens when you're an AC guru and you start picking on your friends.

Just kidding,

Rick


Title: Re: Motor serial # info
Post by: Don Fairchild on October 19, 2010, 04:01:15 PM
Rick;

The 8VF stands for a 92 series engine if it were a 8VA it would be a 71 series. now that I have the correct serial number ( brain fart on my part ) I will see what I can find for you. OH and stay away from interstate some of the worst parts in the industry.

Don


Title: Re: Motor serial # info
Post by: Highway Yacht on October 19, 2010, 04:07:00 PM
Rick;

The 8VF stands for a 92 series engine if it were a 8VA it would be a 71 series. now that I have the correct serial number ( brain fart on my part ) I will see what I can find for you. OH and stay away from interstate some of the worst parts in the industry.

Don

Hey Don... while your checking, could you see what you can find out on my Detroit??? I was told it was a surplus military tank engine.
I've got a few more numbers than Rick has but not sure if the extra numbers mean much. My block is stamped with these numbers:

                                                                                                                                                               8VA-445914
                                                                                                                                                                7083-7395






Title: Re: Motor serial # info
Post by: RickB on October 19, 2010, 04:40:28 PM
Are you guys saying I have an 8V92 NA ? Wow that would be a game changer for me.

I'm all ears,

Rick


Title: Re: Motor serial # info
Post by: robertglines1 on October 19, 2010, 04:44:05 PM
you might have to change your bus discription..add turbo go to 400 hp easy


Title: Re: Motor serial # info
Post by: RickB on October 19, 2010, 05:11:49 PM
I have to say I'm stunned... all the mechanics that have worked on this, run the rack, checked injectors, checked the blower seals etc. Not one person mentioned that I had a 92 series. I used to wonder why they would paint an 8v71 Silver.

The idea that I have had wet sleeve motor all this time and how I was so weird about getting this motor hot that I rebuilt the whole cooling system. Which had the 8V71 cooling system radiators and pulley I might add, nothing ever hinted that I had anything other than an 8v71.

Getting a few more horsies out of this girl just got alot easier. Finding a turbo and all the plumbing just got alot easier as well.

I have decided to learn how to run my rack myself, I've got a friend who is a good mechanic who has offered to teach me.

BTW wifey and I are considering either Arcadia or Quartzite this winter.

Man I got myself an 8V92... That means that for a couple months last year I had two of them. I sure wish I would have known that I would have kept the other one for parts. Oh well live and learn I guess.

rick


Title: Re: Motor serial # info
Post by: Eagle Andy on October 19, 2010, 05:14:40 PM
Ok now you have my attention , as silly as it seems for me to ask this , where do I find the serial # on my 92 I think Iam going to have to stand on my head lol  thanks Andy


Title: Re: Motor serial # info
Post by: RickB on October 19, 2010, 05:29:16 PM
From the front of the motor it is just below the exhaust manifold of the first cylinder

Rick


Title: Re: Motor serial # info
Post by: Eagle Andy on October 19, 2010, 05:37:45 PM
Thanks Rick


Title: Re: Motor serial # info
Post by: luvrbus on October 19, 2010, 05:45:19 PM
Andy, left side below the head a flat spot at the front of the block if not will be in the middle  below the air covers.Rick check the block on the left in front of the head on the deck should have 92 in embossed letters also check the cam balance pully on the right should say 8v92 there.
If that is your correct serial number I hate to be a bearer of sad news but that is a old oil drinking GREEN block 92 series a very early one at that


good luck


Title: Re: Motor serial # info
Post by: RickB on October 19, 2010, 05:46:54 PM
I just went through all my receipts and not a mention of motor type on any of them. If it is a 92 series it must have been right when they made the switch because the aux drive pulley clearly says 8V71. I am wondering if I started celebrating a bit early.

I did check the serial # and it was correct.

We shall see

Rick


Title: Re: Motor serial # info
Post by: Nick Badame Refrig/ACC on October 19, 2010, 05:52:09 PM
Hummmm,

I'd have to say it's a 8V9271 silver... :D

Nick-


Title: Re: Motor serial # info
Post by: RickB on October 19, 2010, 05:59:44 PM
 ??? >:(

No embossed letters that I could find Clifford. I guess my dream of having an 8v92 and a relatively easy power upgrade is probably gone.

And Nick is till making fun of me.

It's a cold cruel world

Rick


Title: Re: Motor serial # info
Post by: RickB on October 19, 2010, 06:10:01 PM
It says on the chart that I have a 74-75 era 8V92. It would have been the 1622nd 92 ever made. But what about the clear 8v71 embossed on the aux drive pulley?

Don was right that the 71 series starts with 8VA and the 92 starts with 8VF

Is anyone else confused here?

Nick is this a practical joke of some kind? ;D

Rick


Title: Re: Motor serial # info
Post by: luvrbus on October 19, 2010, 06:23:02 PM
Rick, here is what that serial number covers 1974, 8v92 N/A 9270 injectors 280 hp not a chance for that serial number to be a after cooled block they just added a turbo no type cooling in the early 1974 models I think it stared in the 3000 serial numbers


good luck and sorry


Title: Re: Motor serial # info
Post by: RickB on October 19, 2010, 06:44:27 PM
Clifford,

Do I have to have the aftercooler if I'm only running 13-15lbs of boost? I figure that the wet sleeve has got to be more heat resistant than the dry sleeve and they ran without aftercoolers at first didn't they? I'm not looking to try and get 450 HP out of it. 350 would be one heck of an improvement. Not to mention the help in the mountains.

Thanks to you and Don for helping all of us so much.

Rick


Title: Re: Motor serial # info
Post by: belfert on October 19, 2010, 06:48:27 PM
My limited knowledge is that MCI didn't put 8V92s into their buses until quite late in the MC9 run.  You have an MC8 so it would be highly unlikely to be an 8V92 from the factory.  The motor could certainly have been replaced at some point.


Title: Re: Motor serial # info
Post by: RickB on October 19, 2010, 06:52:00 PM
Brian,

Actually I have a 1981 9 model so the motor has definitely been changed out at some point.

RB


Title: Re: Motor serial # info
Post by: RickB on October 20, 2010, 03:47:27 PM
Alright Clifford and Don,

One of my mechanics doesn't believe I have the 92 the other does. I pulled the valve cover and found I have blue 7E60 injectors, the 4 valve heads and the only numbers I could find were as follows:

On the inside of the valve cover stamped into the head was 72210 L

on the outside casting toward the rear of the motor outside the valve cover was: 5117433

If my motor was rated at 280 HP with 9270 injectors I am thinking that 60's are robbing me of even more of my power.

I'm on the hunt for exhaust manifolds and plumbing for the turbo and then I'm hoping you guys can help me decide which turbo and injectors I should use. I know they are interchangeable but I found some of the old 92 series sticker on the breather.

Did I tell you all that I found documents of new mains and rod bearings 20 k miles ago!! ;DWoo hoo

RB



Title: Re: Motor serial # info
Post by: luvrbus on October 20, 2010, 03:59:42 PM
Rick, you have 71 series heads,  the 8v92 head will be 892222 you have a 71 series buddy 


good luck


Title: Re: Motor serial # info
Post by: RickB on October 20, 2010, 04:27:13 PM
Clifford,

Two questions and then I'll go to a corner and pout >:(

Is there any way they stuck 71 heads on a 92 block? I can't imagine they would bolt right on

So if it is an 8v71 with the serial # on the block how am I ever gonna be able to get parts that fit?

A 71 with 7E60 injectors? that has to be like a 225 HP motor... I get the feeling Gumpy's gonna start believing me when I complain about HP  ;D ;D

Is anyone else a little confused here? #'s on the head say 71        #'s on the block say 92.... whatever

Nick your 8V7192 comment is starting to seem entirely possible.

Rick


Title: Re: Motor serial # info
Post by: belfert on October 20, 2010, 04:40:01 PM
Actually I have a 1981 9 model so the motor has definitely been changed out at some point.

I'm getting my posters confused I guess.  I don't know why I thought you had an MC8.  MCI did do some factory installations of 8V92s in the MC9, but not sure what year(s).  Custom Coach has a 1983 MC9 for sale with an 8V92.  No idea if factory or not.


Title: Re: Motor serial # info
Post by: Dave5Cs on October 20, 2010, 09:44:59 PM
Ah Rick stop it What are you B-----ing about I still have a 6V Can you put 12 V heads on a 6V LOL ;D

Dave


Title: Re: Motor serial # info
Post by: robertglines1 on October 21, 2010, 04:49:40 AM
..Awhile back..someone posted a seller had a 871 with 92 heads on it. the response was the valves would hit sleeve's/ with that said would it not be opposite? they would bolt up? Your mechanics and for sure me or confused..either way enjoy the beast with family. Bob


Title: Re: Motor serial # info
Post by: luvrbus on October 21, 2010, 05:06:51 AM
Head bolts are different between a 92 series and 71 series fwiw


good  luck


Title: Re: Motor serial # info
Post by: robertglines1 on October 21, 2010, 05:13:36 AM
Thanks for clarification the head exchange ?no go. Bob


Title: Re: Motor serial # info
Post by: RickB on October 21, 2010, 05:58:02 AM
The pickle that this puts me in is how am I gonna get parts for a motor that has part #"s from a dry sleeve and a wet sleeve on the same motor?

Can you imagine the discussion at the parts counter?

"Yessir I know the block say's my motor is a 92 but my heads say 71 would you care to guess?"

The torch is getting warmed up to cut that tow hitch off... just kidding... kind of

Rick


Title: Re: Motor serial # info
Post by: Geoff on October 21, 2010, 06:33:59 AM
Rick--

You have a strange engine.  For your information when a new replacement block came from Detroit it was up to the mechanic to stamp the serial number on it.  Maybe somebody goofed.

--Geoff


Title: Re: Motor serial # info
Post by: RickB on October 21, 2010, 06:54:47 AM
Geoff,

That was a good point, hwoever that would make my bus engine from the 40's or 50's.

Because of some of the issues the motor had before i bought it (3 times it sent coolant out of the head and into the crankcase I am starting to get the feeling that there was a mixup in the original rebuild and they put 71 heads on my 92 block. I'm checking with Curt at Cetral truck here in town and dan at C&J but my gut says someone screwed up big time. The two things that keep me from being sure about that conclusion (because serial #'s can't lie) is the aux drive pulley says 71 as well and I'm not sure a 92 would run as well as my motor does with 60 injectors in it

The bad news is if I ever want to sell my motor, as good a runner as it is, this is a potential parts problem for anyone looking to buy an 8v71.

Rick


Title: Re: Motor serial # info
Post by: luvrbus on October 21, 2010, 07:08:13 AM
Rick, pull one of the air box covers and measure the bore a 71 series will be 4.25 and a 92 series 5.00 (4.84) easy to check and will give you the answer


good luck


Title: Re: Motor serial # info
Post by: RickB on October 21, 2010, 07:30:03 AM
Clifford,

In the words of Paul McCartney " I'd like to say on behalf of the band you've passed the audition". Great info. I have to say it will not be my happiest day if I found out some yahoo put the wrong heads on my motor. If that turns out to be the case let's pray the guy didn't go into airplane maintenance!

Rick


Title: Re: Motor serial # info
Post by: luvrbus on October 21, 2010, 07:49:50 AM
Rick, the 5 inch measurement should be from the inside to the outside of the liner don't go through the port of the opposite side of the air box should read 5 inches for a 92 series wish you well on this one 




good luck


Title: Re: Motor serial # info
Post by: RickB on October 21, 2010, 08:04:14 AM
Hey all,
I just got off the phone with Curt and he said that the bolt pattern is different and like you said clifford that the bolts themselves are larger for the 92 so we have concluded that my motor is indeed an 8v71.

He said that with the 7E60 injectors that I am producing around 270-280 HP and that the 65's would bump me to 318 and that 70's would bump me up to 330 or so. He has been and continues to be dead set against me adding a turbo to my existing setup. Timing issues, the heat resistance of the 71 rings when compared to the 92 rings, cost etc.

I think at the end of the day he really cares about Lea and I and he forsee's big problems if we do this without changing pistons, rings,  liners etc.

Heck it's around $1500 just to purchase and install bigger injectors.

A torch and no more tow hitch problem solved right?

Thanks,

rick


Title: Re: Motor serial # info
Post by: Tenor on October 21, 2010, 08:07:30 AM
Keep the hitch and get a VW bug... ;D

Glenn


Title: Re: Motor serial # info
Post by: Geoff on October 21, 2010, 08:08:26 AM
Geoff,

That was a good point, hwoever that would make my bus engine from the 40's or 50's.

Rick

???????????  How do you figure?  I was stamping serial numbers on Detroit blocks in 1980 when I worked for the Detroit Distributor (Williams and Lane) in Berkeley, CA.  You probably have an 8V71.

--Geoff


Title: Re: Motor serial # info
Post by: RickB on October 21, 2010, 08:31:15 AM
Geoff,

Unless the person who got the letters 8VF wrong also got the 001622 wrong (which could happen I guess)

Because if this was the 1622nd 8v71 made that would make it very,very old. At least that was my thinking. I guess it is entirely possible that someone didn't just get a letter wrong (The A and the V) but that someone put the entire wrong set of numbers on my block.

Either way the serial number on my block will have to be disregarded when ordering any parts for this motor. I guess the old "when you take a part off, replace it with the the same part number" rule is in effect.

This was one of my less enjoyable tasks of my bus owning years...

Rick


Title: Re: Motor serial # info
Post by: kyle4501 on October 21, 2010, 08:59:10 AM
Rick,
Keep your eyes & ears open for a good used 8V92TA. It may take a while, but there are some good ones out there still in trucks you can take for a drive. Then you could just swap motors & let her rip!  ;D

Of course, once the motor is out of the truck, you'd want to inspect it thoroughly & replace the necessary gaskets before installing it in the bus.


Title: Re: Motor serial # info
Post by: RickB on October 21, 2010, 09:55:20 AM
Kyle,

Man, I have learned the hard way this year that a truck 92 take alot of work and alot of money to switch over for bus use. Dual oil cooler, motor mounts, engine cradle, flex plate, bellhousing, water pump it is a long list. I would estimate at least 3k in intake and exhaust plumbing and all the peripherals and many hours of labor as well.

My mechanic has me relatively convinced to go with 70 injectors, run the rack,and call it a day.

It's funny because just doing injectors is gonna get me reasonably close to my desired 350 hp.

I took the long way around.

Geoff we are leaning on your explanation that the guy just put the wrong serial # on the new block that they told me was part of the rebuild they did in 2000.

Rick


Title: Re: Motor serial # info
Post by: kyle4501 on October 21, 2010, 10:10:50 AM
Many paths to the destination.  ;D

I'm already looking at a lot of work since I'm converting a Scenicruiser  ::)
It is a bit different & I'm swapping over to an automatic anyways. . . . . So it won't matter much in the long run for me.

I hope your upgrade exceeds your expectations.


Title: Re: Motor serial # info
Post by: Van on October 21, 2010, 10:35:26 AM
Rick, hang in there kid, I too am wanting the infamous 8-92 but as per our conversation yesterday (always good to talk to ya by the way :)) I will be patiently waiting in the dark( like the NINJA man ;D) for the right one to pounce on ;D Our time will come ;)

  Van :)


Title: Re: Motor serial # info
Post by: bevans6 on October 21, 2010, 11:43:10 AM
Won't you also have to change to advanced cam timing with 70 injectors?  Anyway, if you do that let us know how it runs.  I am on a plan to do some work to my engine this winter too, and I've enlisted the aid of Mr Fairchild  ;D to make sure I buy the right parts.  I have a phased approach in mind - rebuild it with kits and blower parts to let it run as a natural, but with the right parts to let me  do a low PSI turbo down the road if desired.  I have N65 injectors right now, and N70's might be a further step.

Brian


Title: Re: Motor serial # info
Post by: RickB on October 21, 2010, 12:43:44 PM
Brian

You do not have to change cam timing for the 70's.

He has guaranteed me that going from 60's to 70's will be a night and day change.

Rick


Title: Re: Motor serial # info
Post by: Geoff on October 21, 2010, 05:54:17 PM
Brian

You do not have to change cam timing for the 70's.

He has guaranteed me that going from 60's to 70's will be a night and day change.

Rick

Yes, you will change day into night with all the black smoke you are going to have!

--Geoff


Title: Re: Motor serial # info
Post by: RJ on October 21, 2010, 11:26:55 PM
Rick -

In addition to Geoff's comment about the smoke (and it WILL smoke heavily w/ the 70's), you're also going to notice a slight drop in fuel economy, plus you'll have to watch the temp gauge a little closer, too.  Nature of the beast when being over-fueled w/o enough air.

BTW, have you weighed your coach?  With and without the toad?  What kind of weight are we talking about here that you're trying to push down the Interstate?

I may have mentioned this before, but the charter fleet I worked at back in the mid '80's had six coaches with powertrains similar to yours:  Two MC-8s and two MC-9s with exactly the same set-up (8V71N / HT-754CR), and two MC-9s with 8V71T / HT754CRs.  275 hp for the natural engines, 350 hp for the turbos.

Yes, you could feel the difference the extra 75 hp provided, but on the 250 mile run to Disneyland from Fresno, it made all of about 3 - 4 minutes difference in the travel time, not to mention burning about 20 extra gallons RT in the process.

And the fleet's little 4106 was faster yet and burned almost 30 gallons less!  With N60 injectors and only a 1900 rpm max governor setting!  (Don knows the fleet - he's worked on their coaches since they have a garage in Bakersfield.)

So here's my nickel's worth for you to ponder:

1.  Go for a ride in somebody else's 40-foot Eagle, MCI or Prevost w/ the same engine, so you can get a better idea of your bus's performance.  It may be you're really just expecting too much - they're not BMW's you know!

2.  Since the engine runs decently, have somebody who really knows what they're doing run the rack on it properly, including setting the jakes.  Use Don's specs - I think Geoff will agree to the settings Don uses.

3.  Once you've got the rack run right, drive the dickens out of it for now, taking your time to assemble all the various goodies to make it into an 8V71T.  As TomC mentioned in an earlier post, his 8V had "transit" rings - something that was new to me - but either Don or Geoff can elaborate on their advantage when being used on a "smoke turbo" engine, which is basically what the 350 hp model is.

4.  Instead of cutting off the hitch, consider a lighter toad.  The most popular toad around my neck of the woods seems to be the Honda CR-V, followed by the Jeep Cherokee.  There's a Prevost owner about 10 miles from me that pulls a 5-spd VW Jetta TDI wagon behind his bus - says he doesn't even know it's there (8V71N / HT-740), plus he can fuel both together at the same pump!

5.  Don't get caught up too much in the "Tim Allen Syndrome" - gotta watch out for those Binford Specials!  LOL!!

FWIW & HTH. . .

 ;)