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Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: blank on March 21, 2011, 03:04:26 PM



Title: MC5 B - again...
Post by: blank on March 21, 2011, 03:04:26 PM
   Im planning on going down tomorrow to try to see what I'm getting myself into. Im going to bring two 12 volt batteries from my truck with marine clamps on them, im hoping that will allow me to hook them up and try to start it. Will they fit and will that work??

   Im bringing a gas powered air compressor so I can apply air before starting it, so I can locate any leaks, etc., any suggestions where best to hook up air?

   Im bringing blocks and a floor jack, and big sockets etc., (I need to fix a tire), and intend to check gearbox, diff, and drop box for lube, water, rust, etc.. Any other suggestions, tips, specific tools I should bring, things I should look at???

  Im weighing very heavily on having it towed, but driving it home would save quite a bundle if I can pull it off.

  Paul~

 


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: Busted Knuckle on March 21, 2011, 04:05:13 PM
That better be one BAD A** floor jack!
(seriously there are too many floor jacks that can/will jack up a tag axle let alone any other part of a bus! And if it's big enough to do it, I sure don't wanna have to load or unload it!)

Now as far as the batteries go most MCI's (and other buses too) use post type batteries unless the cables have been changed over by someone! So if you take a marine style battery you may need to have access to a post adapter or two!

Good luck & enjoy! But remember not to try and drive it if it's not roadworthy as the internet bus police will be all over you like a redneck on roadkill possum!
;D  BK  ;D


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: blank on March 21, 2011, 04:18:08 PM
  Ive got a couple 20ton bottle jacks too, a short and a tall. But the floor jack is a 3ton, should be able to lift the front wheel enough to take it off? I know it could never lift the rear.

  I promise I wont drive it until I know its up to snuff.


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: Bill in KS on March 21, 2011, 05:16:05 PM
I try to verify the rack isn't froze up before I spent much time hooking the batt(s) up , could get frustrating / exciting if they are.  If you find that they are froze up it could be a great place to start working on the price.   

I freed up a set out of a 671 today, if you need some recommendation on what worked well just PM me. 

Bill in KS


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: Busted Knuckle on March 21, 2011, 05:42:48 PM
  Ive got a couple 20ton bottle jacks too, a short and a tall. But the floor jack is a 3ton, should be able to lift the front wheel enough to take it off? I know it could never lift the rear.

  I promise I wont drive it until I know its up to snuff.

I have a pile of floor jacks that stubborn employees that knew more than I did have ruined by "just trying to lift the front or tag axle enough to change it" & I'm the one who has to buy another one to use on smaller stuff!
But on the other hand the pile of broken ones come in handy for stripping parts (handles, wheels, flat bar stock, etc) off of for other projects! Don't they Dallas? (he's the one that started me robbing parts off 'm as I was just saving them to go to the scrap yard next load!)
;D  BK  ;D


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: blank on March 21, 2011, 07:16:13 PM

I have a pile of floor jacks

  Figuring 10K max front axle, I thought a 3 ton jack could lift one front wheel on an MC5, but if you think not then its one less thing to drag along.

  Bill, I planned to do a lot of checking before I cranked it, but thats not one I thought of. Thanks, I'll look at that closely.


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: RoyJ on March 21, 2011, 07:35:26 PM

I have a pile of floor jacks

  Figuring 10K max front axle, I thought a 3 ton jack could lift one front wheel on an MC5, but if you think not then its one less thing to drag along.

  Bill, I planned to do a lot of checking before I cranked it, but thats not one I thought of. Thanks, I'll look at that closely.

It's hard to have a jack only take up half the axle weight, due to the following:

1) position. If the jack is placed on the axle, halfway between axle midpoint and the tire's contact patch, you're effectively lifting 75% of axle weight.

2) articulation. When you start lifting a corner wheel, it starts to carry much more than its static (level) weight. The stiffer the suspension, the more dramatic the effect. With no air in the bags, after an inch or two, you're lifting close to the entire front end by one wheel.

To be on the safe side, I'd use the bottle jack!


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: bevans6 on March 21, 2011, 07:48:42 PM
Take the floor jack.  after you jack up the body, and block it, the actual axle gets a whole lot lighter...  I often put the body up, then jack up the axle to get a tire off or whatever.  I normally jack up the body first, then the axle to gain whatever clearance I need to take a wheel off.  A floor jack is fine for that.


Brian


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: blank on March 21, 2011, 08:41:01 PM
Take the floor jack.  after you jack up the body, and block it, the actual axle gets a whole lot lighter...  I often put the body up, then jack up the axle to get a tire off or whatever.  I normally jack up the body first, then the axle to gain whatever clearance I need to take a wheel off.  A floor jack is fine for that.


Brian

  That was my plan originally, but the Bus is sitting on gravel/dirt, so it would probably wear me out more trying to push and pull it through the dirt than to just throw a bottle underneath and start jacking. And its one less heavy thing to drag along. Being borderline capable kind of sinches it.

  I do realise that jacking the axle inboard of the air beam your closer to lifting the whole front of the bus, but as long as you stay outboard of the air beam, and until you raise the axle beyond level, you should really only be lifting half the weight of the front.

  The problem is the bus is flat of air, and with the tire flat, the right corner is just about completely on the ground. Im not sure I can get my shorty bottle jack under it to raise it at all. Hopefully the compressor will blow it up enough it wont be an issue.

 


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: Ed Hackenbruch on March 21, 2011, 08:53:34 PM
I think that you are going to find that the jack is going to be about 3 ft. in from the edge of the bus. Take a piece of 3/8" thick steel plate for the jack to sit on or it will probably sink into the ground.


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: blank on March 21, 2011, 08:58:24 PM
  Someone said there is an actual jacking pad under these buses, can someone explain where about it is?


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: Ed Hackenbruch on March 21, 2011, 09:24:47 PM
On the 5A you either place the jack under the axle or you can place it under the suspension support leg that is in front of the front tire. (on the rear it is behind the tires)  The leg is about 2 inches square where you place the jack. Usually when you use this you should raise both sides at the same time, otherwise you could twist or distort the body of the bus.


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: Ed Hackenbruch on March 21, 2011, 09:28:19 PM
If the guy has a maintenance manual look on page 3-1 and 3-2 for a short description and picture of this.


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: Tom Y on March 22, 2011, 03:28:52 AM
Ed, My 5C is in front of the rear tire. But you will see where to jack. I cut 3" long 3"X3"X1/4" square tubing and place under the bumpers. Hard to get to unless under the bus or tires off. But a safe idea.  Tom Y


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: blank on March 22, 2011, 03:51:42 AM
If the guy has a maintenance manual

  I dont beleive there is anything such as books or manuals, but ill ask. He did say there was a pile of reciepts, maybe ill get lucky and find a manual? Is the only source of manuals for these things that Bus site online?

  I hope to be headed out in a few hours. Any ideas of things to bring along im all ears.
  

  
  


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: blank on March 22, 2011, 04:01:48 AM
Hard to get to unless under the bus or tires off. But a safe idea.  Tom Y

  I think ill wait until I can air up the Bus to play with the tire, hopefully any air leak is easily corrected/bypassed.

  Anyone know the best place to supply air to the Bus with an aircompressor?

  Powersteering fluid, atf or hydraulic?


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: trucktramp on March 22, 2011, 06:13:45 AM
There should be an access door below the driver's window.  Inside you will find a schrader valve.  That's the little valve that looks like a tire valve.  Attach you air line there.  You will need some sort of locking chuck if you want continuous air supply.


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: blank on March 22, 2011, 09:02:49 PM
There should be an access door below the driver's window.  Inside you will find a schrader valve. 

  Hey there, thanks a lot. I found that schrader valve. Must be plugged inside somewhere, wouldnt do anything. There is a valve on the bottom of an air tank in that compartment, I took the end off the air hose and screwed in there. She aired up.

  Got here late, once I got it raising I went to work on the wheel, put in batteries, looked things over. The air seat was down, so sitting there was hard. The rear start button is froze, didnt want to push it any harder in fear it would stick so just tried from up front.

  It does look like someone was trying to remove the alt, the hinge pin apprears to be gone and the alt is sitting a bit offset in the mount. I can look at that more tomorrow.

  Radiators look very solid, virtually no corrosion there, or anywhere really, just grease and dirt (needs a bath). Slight air leak from an actuator in engine compartment, but nothing major. Got the tire changed, compressor ran out of gas so couldnt air it up again (front leveler thought bus was to high when I was jacking it up, so it bled off all the air.

  I looked over the engine, didnt see anything real major except the alt like I mentioned. Decided to spin it over and see what happened. I flipped the highidle switch on, and spun her over, watching lights and for smoke. Never saw smoke, but oil light went out right away. She spun over real good, but wasnt hearing any firing so stopped. Then my daughter asked what the smoke was in back.

  It did appear to be getting fuel, but obviously not enough to make the magic happen. I tried a bit more but the batts were cranking down so I called it a night. after running two chargers for a while, I left a charger on one battery and plugged in the RV and shut the door. Tomorrow I will take another look and try to see if there is something, a fuel leak or whatever, and try it again. But shes telling me she wants to run. I also want to pop a battery in and try the Generator, but I may run out of time, I have to be back home for training tomorrow night.

  So anyway, im nuts. Unless something screams at me tomorrow im going to take it, and will deal with it as it comes. See y'all tomorrow.


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: Tom Y on March 23, 2011, 03:24:38 AM
GOOD LUCK, Haul er Home.   Tom Y


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: bevans6 on March 23, 2011, 04:54:26 AM
The front schrader valve is to the emergency air system only, which is protected by one way  check valves from the rest of the air system.  If you put air in there you were airing up the parking brake, basically.  The other valve you found is on the accessory tank.  In a perfect world it should just air up the accessory system and the parking brake system, but not the brake system since the PPV should be closed until the air pressure in the dry/main/service tank gets up to 65 psi.  Mine does bleed air back and will air up the whole bus eventually, which indicates that my PPV is suspect.  I believe that on a 5B the dash pressure gauge may well read the pressure in the accessory tank, not the dry tank.  They did a change in the mid 70's some time, per BusWarrior.

Don't try to start the engine until you have take off the valve covers and checked that the racks can move to the no-fuel position by moving the engine stop lever on top of the governor.  It's the other lever, there is an air cylinder that moves it.  At rest, the racks are in the full fuel position, and they move to the idle position as soon as the bus is started.  With that vintage of engine, one stuck fuel rack in one injector can hold them all full open.  Just move the stop lever and all the little racks should move in and out smoothly, on both sides at the exact same time.

Brian


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: blank on March 23, 2011, 05:33:23 AM
  Just move the stop lever and all the little racks should move in and out smoothly, on both sides at the exact same time.

Brian

  There isnt a way to check rack movement without pulling a cover? I'll check it out.

  As far as applying air, its starting to sound like the best place is at the compressor.

  There is a T handle with a red arrow across the handle below the left side of the drivers seat. There is a small placard near it that, if im seeing correctly, says open and closed. Maybe with daylight I can see up around underneath and figure it out, but in the meantime, what is it?

  Hey, It held air all night, hasnt budged a smidge. Cool.

  Glass. The two windows on each side in back slide open, and the front left, all others are fixed. Are these same as MC7? It will need a front drivers windshield. Are they same as a MC7, and are they swappable right to left?

  Lights. The clearance lights lit, I have cargo lights, dash, cockpit, engine etc. But when I flipped headlights I got nothing. And I cant see how you get high/low beam, unless the button on the floor is the dimmer switch and not the air horn???


  Well, looks like another fine day, better get cracking. TTYL.



Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: Barn Owl on March 23, 2011, 05:48:37 AM
Give it a sniff of ether and see if it spools up.


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: bevans6 on March 23, 2011, 06:10:36 AM
Taking off the passenger side valve cover is five minutes work, and you can then see the rack action.  You'll see the levers that actuate each injector are tightened with pinch bolts to the shaft.  All I have in mind is one injector could be frozen and holding the injectors open.  Probably if the stop lever works easily and the injectors on the passenger side all go to no-fuel, the other side is good too.

that engine has an emergency stop flap on the air intake.  You need to check that it isn't activated.  It's hard to describe, but there is a spring loaded ratchet thing and a lever that needs to be  all the way clockwise and engaging that ratchet.

There is another schrader valve on the ping tank, which is on the passenger side front wall of the engine compartment.  You can usually add air there, unless the purge valve on the air dryer is open.

The Tee handle under the drivers seat is the hot water valve to control heat to the drivers heater and the defroster.  It's a 90 degree ball valve, basically.

I don't think you get headlights until the bus is running.  The button on the floor at the front of the foot rest is the dimmer switch, if  there is one at the back of the foot rest it's air horn.  They don't all have air horns, mine doesn't.

If the suspension held air all night, the air beams are currently good.  Or it has blanking plates.  Either way, bonus!



Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: blank on March 24, 2011, 12:22:58 AM
  Brian, im just getting on here from this morning, so I made it home before reading anything since this morning. I basically figured all that stuff out by looking and playing with everything. Except the heat knob, without someone telling me or seeing in a book, I would have had to tear it apart to know what it did.

  In the morning light I found the dimmer switch, it does have air horns, just wasnt able to get air in everything so all they did was click when I tapped the button. I also found the schrader in the rear engine compartment, but it wouldnt take air.

  It held air all night and still looked fine when I left. Its not plated. levelers seem to work too. The only rust ive found anywhere is at the very rear most part at the back of the radiators. Compared to the last 10 or so MCI's ive seen, its the least ive seen.

  I know you said to pull the covers, and I looked and saw it would be easy to pull them. But time was rapidly becoming an issue, I really needed to be headed for home before noon. I had charged the batteries all night, this morning I went over the connections, and found one of the cables loose on the BUS bar post. I looked around the engine, everything seemed loose and free, so I decided I would check the coolant before I did anything else.....lower hose on left side leaked. So now what? I have another hour and then its time to fly. Have tools to pick up, etc., I didnt have time to go play around looking for a hose and trying to fix it, not today. So I turned my attention to the generator.

  After a small "issue", about two spins and it was absolutely purring. No smoke, quiet lil bugger. The small issue was a #8 ground wire off the alternator someone had put onto the + battery post (it has its own battery). When I jumped it off a kicker, the wire smoked and filled the cargo bay with smoke. That got everyones attention.

  So I had accomplished everything I set out to do except for seeing it run. I had it aired up, I could work the brakes (though I need to go through them fully before I would try driving), changed out the tire, it has lights, horns, all the big stuff. But will it run? About that time this guy, a buddy of the seller shows up, he seemed pretty interested in seeing if I was gonna get her going. Something about that generator, how fast it popped off just kind of cinched it, that it was gonna be an okay Bus. Yeah, I know the hose could mean it got cooked, and maybe it did, but I just dont think so. About that time the "helper dude" walks out with a can of Ether. God I hate that crap.

  Before I sprayed any ether in it, I tried just cranking. It was smoking a bit, but not a lot, so im thinking its full of air. I checked the tank, looked about half full, was clear and didnt smell funky. I did figure out the primer pump, but it was too late to monkey with that. I noticed in cranking it, the oil light goes out within a crank or two, and cranking, the pressure goes up past 40 psi. So we shot some Ether and I cranked it. It fired instantly, ran a hair rough for a few seconds, smoothed to an idle for maybe 20-30 seconds, and then quit. It would only fire momentarily on ether after that, but id seen enough. I own a Bus. Now I have to figure out how to get the stinker home. If you thought I had a lot of stupid questions before, well, just wait.

 


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: bevans6 on March 24, 2011, 05:22:10 AM
CONGRATULATIONS

 ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: lostagain on March 24, 2011, 06:53:44 AM
Good for you!!! Sounds like a good one. I forgot what is upstairs: is it converted, or still seated?

JC


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: blank on March 24, 2011, 09:00:55 AM
  Its converted as an entertainer/band bus. No kitchen, just a sink and toilet, 6 bunks, rear dressing room, front lounge/dinette. My wife noted that the stuff was rather well made, and I started really looking at it for the first time. All the corners are radiused and the surfaces are all formica. It actually looks production made rather than homemade. Everything fits to the cieling and walls with precision. The cieling has plywood with a naugahyde headliner

  When I told the wife I would toss it all out the door, she wondered if we couldnt reuse some of it. I dont know, we'll get it home and look at it then.

  After we made the deal and I was ready to take off, the seller started in again how it used to belong to Mel Tillis. He gave me a file with a hand full of old reciepts he said he found in the Bus, most are dated around the late 90's. Whats interesting is the reciepts bounce back and forth with different names on them through a range of dates, and several within the range of dates have Belden Enterprises Inc., Nashville. All I found online was they looked to be some kind of a promoter.

  What the seller told me was back in the early 80's this women bought the Bus from Tillis, and used the Bus to carry bands around. She died, and her son ended up with it. For a while he carried kids on some soccer team or something back and forth to Ft Smith. He drove the Bus onto the guys car lot last spring, hung around a while trying to fix it or find work, was living in it etc., and then disappeared.
 
  It appears the Bus has been around the North Little Rock area since at least the late 90's, as well as Nashville. I dont think its right to state names I see on papers, so for now at least I will not do that. But when I googled one of the names I saw a link to Pam Tillis, and found that she had lived in North Little Rock for quite a while. So who knows. I might try poking around and see what I dig up. While I dont really care, it would be neat to own something some character once owned.


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: trucktramp on March 24, 2011, 09:51:37 AM
Congrats.  The adventure continues.  Sounds like you have a present here.  You have had to "unwrap" it before it can be used...and you didn't know what you were getting.  Have fun and enjoy it.


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: JohnEd on March 24, 2011, 09:52:48 PM
It all sounds really good.  My intuition bone says you are fine.   I guess we will see how well that bone is working still.

My best and warmest wishes for a safe and pleasant journey.

John


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: blank on March 24, 2011, 10:11:54 PM
  Thanks guys, and I really mean that, to everyone. I think it would have always remained a backburner dream if I hadnt found this place and found so many others doing the same thing.


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: RJ on March 24, 2011, 10:46:16 PM
Paul -

How ya gonna get it up your driveway?   ???

(Sorry, couldn't resist!)   ;D


 ;)


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: blank on March 24, 2011, 11:32:28 PM
Paul -

How ya gonna get it up your driveway?   ???

(Sorry, couldn't resist!)   ;D


 ;)

   I plan to drive it up here.  ;D


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: bevans6 on March 25, 2011, 04:58:10 AM
Is it an automatic or a 4 speed?  I missed that part.  8V71? Jake brake?

If it was Mel Tillis' bus it might have had "there goes M-Mel" on it because he apparently stuttered...

Brian


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: blank on March 25, 2011, 03:46:09 PM
  Its a 4 speed.

  Just got an email from Mel, lol. I found his website and asked about the bus in an email.

  He says no, never owned an MCI, says he always bought Golden or Silver Eagles. Oh well, I got an email from Mel out of the deal.


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: blank on March 27, 2011, 10:59:35 PM
  Integral PS?

  The steering gear has lines going to it, but a ram above the steering rod connected to the pitman arm. 


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: bevans6 on March 28, 2011, 03:46:51 AM
That ram assist is the stock power steering on a MC-5B.  The integral steering has the power steering lines connected to the steering box itself.  That came in, on MCI's, around 1983 so no MC-5's had it stock.  Mid model MC-9's were the earliest with integral steering stock.

Brian


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: blank on March 28, 2011, 08:59:31 AM
  Thats whats confusing me, there are lines going to the steering gear, but it still has a ram.


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: rgrauto on March 28, 2011, 09:04:05 PM
There is a control valve mounted to  the gearbox that controls fluid pressure flow to the hyd. cylinder , HTH,   Glen


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: blank on March 29, 2011, 07:32:59 AM
There is a control valve mounted to  the gearbox that controls fluid pressure flow to the hyd. cylinder , HTH,   Glen


  How bad is the the OE system?

  Can anyone lead me to a site that explains conversion?

  Bus 101 shows putting an integral gear into an MCI 8 or 9, would this be simular??


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: lostagain on March 29, 2011, 07:51:41 AM
Paul,

the OE power steering with the ram assist is OK, but not nearly as tight and precise as an integral power steering. This is why a lot of buses of that vintage were converted. The MC5A,B or C is very similar to the 8 or 9, so your info on Bus 101 would be relevant.

JC


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: blank on March 29, 2011, 08:22:51 AM
Paul,

the OE power steering with the ram assist is OK, but not nearly as tight and precise as an integral power steering. This is why a lot of buses of that vintage were converted. The MC5A,B or C is very similar to the 8 or 9, so your info on Bus 101 would be relevant.

JC

  I assume by things ive seen and read that there is no direct replacement gear, that any gear I find would have to come from a large truck, and I will have to custom fit the gear just at I see on the Bus 101 site???


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: bevans6 on March 29, 2011, 08:47:10 AM
You can either engineer a new, unique setup yourself or duplicate the installation of the steering box on a MC-9.  Mine is the same as a MC-9.  You also have to change the power steering pump pressure to 2000 psi.  The ram system uses 1000 psi, and you really can't  turn the wheel unless you are rolling with that pressure.

Brian


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: blank on March 29, 2011, 09:34:43 AM
  Was the -9 gear a direct bolt in?


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: Busted Knuckle on March 29, 2011, 09:49:10 AM
  Was the -9 gear a direct bolt in?


NO! Here is a good source to call and get the info needed or to even have them do it as they are experienced and have the parts on hand!
http://www.caylorsupply.com/bus-repair.html (http://www.caylorsupply.com/bus-repair.html)


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: blank on March 29, 2011, 10:30:27 AM
  Thanks. I gave them a call, looks like $900 for a kit. The more questions I ask, the more I realise I really need an operators/service manual.


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: Fredward on March 29, 2011, 07:10:48 PM
Art,
Of all the things you are going to be spending money on, I'd say the power steering could be a few steps down on the priority list. I've driven my MC-5a with OE Power Steering thousands of miles. You have to stay on it all the time, but its not the worst. Its got plenty of power for maneuvering in tight places when not moving. Aside from that the issue is there is kind of a lag between when you turn the wheel and when the oil gets supplied to the correct side of the assist ram.

I'd sure drive it awhile before tearing into that project. I think you'll have more pressing issues and their related costs.
Fred


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: Ed Hackenbruch on March 29, 2011, 08:08:59 PM
I agree with Fred. :)  The first couple of hundred miles that i drove my 5A i thought that changing the steering was going to be one of my first projects. Then after i realized that all i had to do was focus farther down the road and use a lighter touch on the wheel, the next 900 miles home was much easier.  That was in late 2003 and about 35,000 miles ago. Never have done anything to the steering and don't even notice it now. ;D


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: Kevinmc5 on March 29, 2011, 08:28:18 PM
Can't wait to read how it all comes out. Sounds like a fun adventure. All so nice to see another mc5 hit the road again. Good luck art and keep writing and learning. So I can learn.

   Kevin


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: blank on March 30, 2011, 10:42:08 PM
  I was really just asking questions about the steering, thinking out loud. If it steers okay I sure wouldnt go ripping it apart. Not yet anyway, like y'all say, I have enough on my plate. Actually, y'all have no clue how much I have on my plate right now.

  Gosh, up to now I really just sat on the fence looking at Buses. Now that im buying one, and planning how to get it home and all, its getting exciting. I know I have some issues to deal with, and sure there will be things unknown, but the feeling is really strange. For the first time ive started saying mine, my Bus, our Bus, that is really a strange feeling.

  Heres another question. Many of you have wives that drive the Bus, what about your kids? Any young Bus drivers out there??


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: thomasinnv on March 31, 2011, 08:28:45 AM
If your wife will learn how to drive the bus, you'll be better for it.  She may never have to, but better to know how then be stuck somewhere if something happens to you.  My wife refuses to even learn how to start the thing, much less drive it.  A few weeks back there was a wild land fire and I was 400 miles away.  The wife and kiddo's were in the bus (it's our full time home) and they were being evacuated cause of the fire but she don't know how to drive the bus, so if it burned up we would be in a shelter right now. 


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: blank on March 31, 2011, 12:11:35 PM
The wife and kiddo's were in the bus (it's our full time home) and they were being evacuated cause of the fire but she don't know how to drive the bus, so if it burned up we would be in a shelter right now. 

  Thank you. I dont think I could get across the importance of her being able to drive it any better than showing her a real scenario like that. But I am also looking at our daughter. At 14 she can get her permit and drive anything on a Class C that I can. It depends on who you ask, and obviously the training, as to how much sense that makes. The crazy thing is that she asked if she could, and really got excited that its possible. She see's girls driving big rigs and thinks that would be fun. What have I raised?


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: RJ on April 02, 2011, 09:16:53 AM
Paul -

She see's girls driving big rigs and thinks that would be fun. What have I raised?

Just a little FYI - Of the 250+ drivers I trained during my bus industry career, the BEST drivers were women!

EVERY busnut should have a "backup driver" in case of emergency, so, for most of us, that means Mama.  Most women are initially intimidated by the size, but usually with 10-15 hrs of behind-th-wheel time, the intimidation factor vanishes.

So, Paul - keep encouraging your daughter!

FWIW & HTH. . .

 ;)


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: blank on April 02, 2011, 09:44:28 PM
Paul -

Just a little FYI - Of the 250+ drivers I trained during my bus industry career, the BEST drivers were women!

So, Paul - keep encouraging your daughter!

  Ive read the same thing about Helicopters, women seem to learn it faster and make smoother pilots.

  I do encourage her, and feel strongly that offering trust and encouragement makes people trustworthy and confident. Maybe after she has a permit we'll go find some giant parking lot on an off day and let her try cranking it around a bit.


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: trucktramp on April 02, 2011, 10:02:05 PM
I have to agree with women being better drivers.  They don't act like they have any thing to prove.  Women just do the job.  Men on the other hand, seem to be a bit more competitive or just like to try and show off.


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: blank on April 02, 2011, 10:20:49 PM
I have to agree with women being better drivers.  They don't act like they have any thing to prove.  Women just do the job.  Men on the other hand, seem to be a bit more competitive or just like to try and show off.

  I wouldnt go too far with accolades. You get around the major metro areas and many younger women have become very aggressive drivers, with many more being cited for road rage, etc.. Ive only been rear ended once, and it was a women in a hurry. She was seen weaving through traffic for over 10 miles before she slammed into me. And had the gall to say she wouldnt have hit me, if I would have changed lanes when I saw her coming. I thought the women police officer standing there was going to cuff her when she said that, lol.

  So while they can be better drivers, its not a rule writen in stone, and they dont often know when to keep their mouth shut any better than a guy, lol.

 


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: thejumpsuitman on April 03, 2011, 12:08:04 AM
Much of driving is a matter of patience, discipline and paying attention.   I don't think any of those traits favor one gender over another.  There are as many absent minded young women driving around talking on cell phones as there are absent minded young men racing around or blasting their thumping stereos.

I think it comes out in the wash.  The tipping point of the scale might be the stupidity of youth.  I would say it's a safe bet that young men take more foolish risks driving than young women, but that doesn't make them inherently poor drivers, it just shows poor judgement.

Ironically, between my wife and I, it is my wife who gets fired up and angry at other drivers much more than me.  I give her a hard time about "road raging".  In doing so, she makes me nervous.  For example, if someone cuts her off, she will run right up to their bumper and start yelling, or throwing up her arms in disgust.  I, however, always expect people to be stupid, and give them a wide berth to do so.  She expects them to follow the rules of the road and is always outraged when they don't.

But if you want to talk about inherent abilities, I remember in college the professor saying that studies show that men are proven to be better at judging distance than women as a matter of fact. FWIW


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: blank on April 03, 2011, 01:50:03 AM
  Im sorry your wife has so much frustration driving, but its probably as much where you live as anything. After almost two years, I havnt been given the finger once since coming down here. You can extrapolate that out to everything else too. A lot of the things I had to put up with the last 30 years, some of which were simply people trying to incite an argument, or downright dangerous and deadly driving moves, are becoming a distant memory. I dont have any of the buildup of aggression that I used to have from driving somewhere anymore.

  I also time myself so that when I travel through major cities, I dont hit rush hour or lunch. I'll either push on through and get past it before it happens, stop a while and come through after, or bypass them entirely. 2-4 am is always a good time to sail through. I guess I just dont want to deal with peoples BS anymore. They can have their darn city.

  As far as depth perception, I would think thats primarily learned. Boys are out hunting and playing and doing things outdoors from and early age that girls just arent out doing. And many of those things we did as boys involve the discussion of distance. Boys learn young what standard measures are and how to judge them.

 

   

 


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: blank on April 03, 2011, 02:44:07 AM
  Okay, im trying to work things out in my head and I cant sleep. I keep doing searches online to no avail. Im wondering is anyone can walk me around this bus and point out some things so I know what im looking at. Ive been trying to find a manual but no luck as yet. Most of it I can figure out by looking at things and playing with them, but some I just have no clue.

  At the very back, above the engine about in the center, there is a small valve that turns 90 degrees that controls air to something. There is another one back by the alternator you see from the left side. What do they control??

   There is another gizmo at the back, lets say just right of the blower belt. It has lines going forward to a large, what to me looks like a filter canister by the front of the right head (right side of Bus). This thing has a sight glass about an inch around, looks sorta like an air pressure regulator with a T handle on top. I can unscrew the T handle, but dont have a clue what it is or what it does. I didnt unscrew it all the way, but thought it was the fuel priming pump. Someone told me no, it was for power steering. If thats not the priming pump, where is the priming pump. If I use a garden sprayer to prime, where would I pump fuel in at?

  I put air into the air tank in the front bay, Bus aired up, brake pedal seemed to work the brakes, parking brake valve was working. But, the air gauge never rose above 20 psi (or below either) and the warning light never went out. And the air horns didnt seem to be getting pressure either.

  There is a small verticle cylinder in the right side rear engine area, against the forward bulkhead, that has airlines and a schrader. I applied air there and it seemed to have full pressure (I had my portable set at 120 psi).

  I am hoping to go down and try to get it going this week and try to get it home. I dont know why air isnt getting fully into the brake system, or if it is, maybe its just the gauge, but then why the light? Could it be something electrical not opening up air? Also, the wipers wouldnt go, and I couldnt find a way to get the door latch to activate. Im hoping its all related.

  I think I need some help, lol.


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: lostagain on April 03, 2011, 06:58:23 AM
Hi Paul,

I can answer some of your questions.

Those 90 valves turn the air on and off to the belt tensionners for the rad blowers and the alternator. Turn the air press off to take the belt off.

The canister with sight glass is the power steering reservoir. Turn the T handle all the way off to take the lid off. There is a filter in there. Change it once in a while as per prev maint.

There is no fuel primer pump. (Stock anyway). If you use a garden sprayer, connect it to a spare port on the primary filter.

The small vertical cylinder on the bulkhead is the ping tank.

I can't help you with the air issues, you'll have to keep playing with it. Or someone else will have an idea.

Good luck,

JC


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: rgrauto on April 03, 2011, 06:59:21 AM
Art, the site glass on the r/rear of eng. is the level for the power steering,you un-screw the wing nut a little and pull up and out,fill with ps. fluid. The valve on the left rear under the  air cleaners go to the belt tension for the alternator. On the right rear bulkhead the air water separator is located ( drain valve on bottom) and you can fill the air system with the air valve on top of the canister ,also I plumed my electric air compressor in at this valve, This is on my 67 MCI 5A, HTH,  Glen


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: blank on April 03, 2011, 09:21:28 AM
   Does anyone have a schematic of the air system? .

  Would anything electrical block air to the wipers, door lock, air gauge/buzzer? I'm sure I had full air pressure to the brakes, certainly much more than the 20 psi I saw on the gauge. The brakes were definetly releasing and applying (witnessed turning the front wheel) which IIRC takes over 60 psi to release? It takes over 60 psi to hold the emergency brake valve released, doesnt it?

    

  


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: bevans6 on April 03, 2011, 12:49:50 PM
I don't have a schematic of the air system on a 5B.  It will be about the same as the MC-8 of the same year.  There were a lot of changes in the system detail in the 1970's, per Buswarrior, so look for a MC=8 manual of near vintage and it will be good for you bus for most things.

The gauge is supposed to read the accessory tank on that vintage of bus, which is the tank at the front beside the driver.  If you added air to the schrader valve in the same bay, it does not go to that accessory tank, it goes to the parking brake tank, which is why you were able to release the brakes.  From the parking brake tank, depending on specifics, it may or may not bleed out to the dry tank or  to the accessory tank.  If you want to fill the bus correctly without running the engine, add air to the ping tank at the back of the bus, passenger side, there should be a valve there too.  The low air warning runs off the accessory tank, so it will not shut off until the bus pressure is up properly.

Brian


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: blank on April 03, 2011, 02:28:13 PM


  The gauge is supposed to read the accessory tank on that vintage of bus, which is the tank at the front beside the driver. 

  If you want to fill the bus correctly without running the engine, add air to the ping tank at the back of the bus, passenger side, there should be a valve there too.  The low air warning runs off the accessory tank, so it will not shut off until the bus pressure is up properly.

Brian

  I figured out the front schrader only released the brakes, so I attached directly to the accesory tank and filled there. That raised the Bus suspension and brought air to various gizmos at the back, ie; when I flip those control valves I heard air come and go, etc..

  I found what I believe you guys call the ping tank, a small cylinder about 3 inches diameter by 6 to 8 inches long (IIRC), mounted vertically by the bulkhead where the compressor hoses junction. There was a schrader there, and there was air pressure there. I attempted trying to fill it off my compressor, but it wouldnt take any. Releasing the schrader it had good pressure there.

  Once the front tank was filled I closed the valve and shut down my compressor. The Bus did not have any major leaks, and held up the suspension all night and all the next day. There was still pressure for the brake system in the morning, but not enough to hold off the emergency brake valve.

   It has been my understanding as well, that the dash gauge and warning light should read pressure on that tank, but it is not doing so. Is there an electrovalve that would block air to that circuit that could be inop? There is also no air to the wipers or door latch.   


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: lostagain on April 03, 2011, 04:30:48 PM
Ignore me if you know already, but there is a little lever with a red handle under the dash to the right of the steering wheel that turns the door latch on and off. Up, toward you, the door latch claw will suck the door tight. Down will release it.

JC


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: blank on April 03, 2011, 05:52:48 PM
Ignore me if you know already, but there is a little lever with a red handle under the dash to the right of the steering wheel that turns the door latch on and off. Up, toward you, the door latch claw will suck the door tight. Down will release it.

JC

  I wont ignore anybody.

  I found that lever, says something like passenger door over ride? It doesnt do anything. I kinda had an idea that worked the lock. Any other ideas? I just assume that if there was a leak, id lose air brake pressure, and system pressure in general. Thats not the case, its only very slowly losing tank pressure overnight, its just not getting to the gauge, wipers, door lock....


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: lostagain on April 03, 2011, 06:00:13 PM
Paul, this just dawned on me: on my 5C, the ignition key has to be on for the door latch to operate. Worth a try on yours...

JC


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: blank on April 03, 2011, 06:27:58 PM
Paul, this just dawned on me: on my 5C, the ignition key has to be on for the door latch to operate. Worth a try on yours...

JC

  I didnt see a key switch anywhere. There is a master switch on the instrument panel between the start button and a hooded emergency stop. The rear panel back in the engine bay I had switched to front start. With the master in the up (on) position, I can start (attempt to start) the engine, and the blowers and lights etc., all operate. However, there are no emer flashers, turn signals, if there is another switch somewhere I havnt found it. 

  Where is your key switch located?


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: lostagain on April 03, 2011, 07:43:18 PM
I'm talking about the master switch on the dash. Has to be on for some things to work, like the door latch.

I don't know about your flashers and turn signals. Maybe look in the electrical panel outside below driver...

Sorry I'm not much help.

JC


Title: Re: MC5 B - again...
Post by: blank on April 03, 2011, 08:05:36 PM
I'm talking about the master switch on the dash.

  Thats the one im talking about, right in front of you to the right of the wheel. In the up (on)position, everything is working except the things I noted.