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Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: technomadia on June 30, 2011, 04:03:31 PM



Title: Technomadia Update - 4106 Adventures at the Tire Shop
Post by: technomadia on June 30, 2011, 04:03:31 PM
We spent today at Ed Whitehead's Tire in Yuma, AZ getting new wheels and tires installed. They were also going to do an oil change, and help us go over the bus mechanicals to make sure things were safe for our first cross-country journey - heading up towards Lake Havasu City as soon as we can safely.

Photos from today:
  https://www.dropbox.com/gallery/5589663/3/Bus%20Hunt/AZ%20-%20Taxi/Yuma%20Tire%20Shop?h=c2679b (https://www.dropbox.com/gallery/5589663/3/Bus%20Hunt/AZ%20-%20Taxi/Yuma%20Tire%20Shop?h=c2679b)

The driver's rear proved to be a problem - one of the studs was stripped and unusable, and they had to go to extreme measures to get the nut holding the stud off to attempt to replace it - eventually taking the entire hub assembly off.

There is a thread dedicated to this aspect of our day here - please chime in with thoughts:
  http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=20595.0 (http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=20595.0)

We called Clifford for some quick advice, and then called Luke at US Coach and ordered a new stud and nut (as well as a spare) so that they can re-assemble everything tomorrow after the overnight express delivery arrives.  One of the front right lug-nuts was also deemed bad, so we ordered another of those too.

Other issues that we discovered with the bus today:

+ The power steering reservoir was nearly empty, and after refilling it we discovered that the top of the power steering pump is leaking fluid - seemingly coming up out a round fitting on the top of the pump.  There is a photo in the galley linked above.  Any ideas on this leak, and what that fitting is intended for?  Should there be a cap or stopper installed there?

+ The cable we had noticed dangling under the bus running from the front to the rear I've now been able to trace - and it appears to be the control cable for the automatic transmission.  This seems like a very vulnerable place for such an important cable.  Where is this normally routed on 4106's?

+ On the back of the engine I noticed a small mystery filter, with a cap labeled "Inspect every 20k miles and change yearly" - what is this filter?

+ Ed Whitehead's uses Counteract Balancing Beads, and they put a bag of them in each of the six wheels.  Is this a good thing?  Any downsides to bead balancing systems like this?  They bill it as a vast improvement over powders or "ugly" weights mounted on the tire.


We'd love for experienced eyes to look over the photos we took of the underside of the bus when the wheel was off, and tell us if anything looks "interesting" in any fashion.  And -- please share any words of wisdom to help make sure that the hub reassembly and oil change tomorrow goes well.

What else should we try to get help with tomorrow to make sure a bus that has been sitting for so long is ready for a slow drive up towards Lake Havasu, and towards in-person consultation with Clifford?

Thanks all for all the great support!

   - Chris


Title: Re: Technomadia Update - 4106 Adventures at the Tire Shop
Post by: Van on June 30, 2011, 04:28:04 PM
Filter is for the air compressor intake looks like. check chassis lube points, also I would think.


Title: Re: Technomadia Update - 4106 Adventures at the Tire Shop
Post by: kyle4501 on June 30, 2011, 06:13:12 PM
The balance beads can cause "issues" with the valve stems sealing or with tire pressure monitors.

My preference is to use "bus rims" that are better balanced than truck rims. Then use the ugly stick-on weights as needed.  ;D


Title: Re: Technomadia Update - 4106 Adventures at the Tire Shop
Post by: John316 on June 30, 2011, 06:42:19 PM
Hands down, I would go with the old fashioned weights.

I don't know about the Centrinamics (or whatever Lin used). Those sound good too....

If you stick with those beads, just make sure that you watch your tires very closely for cupping, and any other abnormal wear.

FWIW

John


Title: Re: Technomadia Update - 4106 Adventures at the Tire Shop
Post by: RJ on June 30, 2011, 09:24:09 PM
Chris -

4106s were never equipped with automatic transmissions from the factory.

If they had been, the transmission control cable would have been routed thru the center tunnel, like all the other "stuff" - HVAC lines, shift linkage, clutch linkage, air lines, etc.

Probably the easiest way to get rid of the dangle would be to use some "loom" or "cable" clamps screwed to the bottom of the coach.  Be sure to use a dielectric grease to resist corrosion between the screw and the chassis.  (For Van, however, it's hopeless!  LOL!)

FWIW & HTH. . .

 ;)


PS:  Are you sure that the bead balancing things the shop put in the tires to balance them are compatible with a tire pressure monitoring system?



Title: Re: Technomadia Update - 4106 Adventures at the Tire Shop
Post by: technomadia on June 30, 2011, 09:32:26 PM
4106s were never equipped with automatic transmissions from the factory.

If they had been, the transmission control cable would have been routed thru the center tunnel, like all the other "stuff" - HVAC lines, shift linkage, clutch linkage, air lines, etc.

Did the 4106's come with power steering?  It seems the power steering lines run right down the heart of the bus.  It was a bit of a shock to see how haphazard the transmission control wire was attached - I had assumed the dangler must have been the backup camera or something else non-critical.

PS:  Are you sure that the bead balancing things the shop put in the tires to balance them are compatible with a tire pressure monitoring system?

I asked, and they assured me that they use the beads all the time with TPMS systems.  And the little baggy the beads came in says "compatible!" in big block lettering.  They couldn't lie in print, could they?

  - Chris


Title: Re: Technomadia Update - 4106 Adventures at the Tire Shop
Post by: RJ on June 30, 2011, 09:40:06 PM
Chris -

Power steering was an option, and a popular one, actually.

But it wasn't power steering in the sense you're used to - it was actually manual steering with a hydraulic booster cylinder attached to the tie rod.

However, lots of conversion coaches have had this system replaced with a Sheppard power steering unit, which is more like an automotive box on steroids.

Easiest way to tell what you've got is to look behind the front axle - if you can see a big hydraulic cylinder, it's OEM.  If you don't, but you see hydraulic lines going into the gearbox that's bolted to the center of the axle, you've got a Sheppard-style.

FWIW & HTH. . .

 ;)


Title: Re: Technomadia Update - 4106 Adventures at the Tire Shop
Post by: technomadia on June 30, 2011, 09:47:52 PM
Speaking of power steering, any thoughts about the leak we are seeing from the top of the power steering pump?  How critical is this?  How unhappy will things be in the reservoir is allowed to run dry?

  - Chris


Title: Re: Technomadia Update - 4106 Adventures at the Tire Shop
Post by: RJ on June 30, 2011, 09:54:24 PM
Chris -

Extreme case = pump failure if run out of oil.

Checking the oil level should be part of your daily pre-trip inspection.

( http://www.busnut.com/bbs/messages/12262/16203.html?1167072614 (http://www.busnut.com/bbs/messages/12262/16203.html?1167072614) )

Clifford should be able to help you solve this leak. 

Speaking of oil - is the shop using STRAIGHT 40wt in the engine?  DD calls for that for the two-strokes, NOT multi-weight!

(This has been beaten to death over and over again on the various bus bbs's, btw.)

FWIW & HTH. . .

 ;)


Title: Re: Technomadia Update - 4106 Adventures at the Tire Shop
Post by: eagle19952 on June 30, 2011, 10:33:30 PM
Extreme case = pump failure if run out of oil

not if, but when.... and you will (and your wallet) regret it .
My suggestion, DON'T ALLOW IT>!!

You are fortunate, your brake shoes look excellent.
FWIW<, i ran some very high$ maint.operations for the US Air Force and some Major oil company sub contractors:
Your axle gaskets if not torn are serviceable (IMO)< BUT I would not allow RTV Silicone sealant in my shop,PERIOD.
it will NOT cure in the presence of oil. and it takes atleast 24 hours to "tack"
Were I you i would locate Permatex Aviation grade sealants,Caterpillar RED gasket replacer (TO SUPPLEMENT THE PAPER GASKET) or I would buy some gaskets and/or a small ballpeen hammer and proper gasket material and make new ones,(especially if the existing ones are brittle.
Regardless I would coat the/which ever gaskets I was to use AND let the sealant DRY/cure before install.
Permatex Hi Tack, Permatex #2 Form-a-Gasket or Hylomar Blue or Cat RED.
http://www.hylomarsealant.com/ (http://www.hylomarsealant.com/)

Best: Hylomar Blue $$$
Cat RED $$
Permatex #2 Form-a-Gasket $$
Permatex Hi Tack  -$
PS did I say I hate silicone for gaskets.....


Title: Re: Technomadia Update - 4106 Adventures at the Tire Shop
Post by: pvcces on June 30, 2011, 11:08:34 PM
Chris, our 4106 has a leak at the top of the pump. There is a bore which has a spring and disc like plug. It is sealed with an o-ring and a retainer clip holds the whole business in the bore. I think that the o-ring has hardened and needs to be replaced.

for what it's worth.

Tom Caffrey


Title: Re: Technomadia Update - 4106 Adventures at the Tire Shop
Post by: eagle19952 on June 30, 2011, 11:11:01 PM
Speaking of power steering, any thoughts about the leak we are seeing from the top of the power steering pump?  How critical is this?  How unhappy will things be in the reservoir is allowed to run dry?

  - Chris


SOLVE THE PROBLEM

You'll be glad you did.


Title: Re: Technomadia Update - 4106 Adventures at the Tire Shop
Post by: zubzub on July 01, 2011, 03:20:29 AM
this pic IMG_2603.JPG looks like it has a failed bushing in it.


Title: Re: Technomadia Update - 4106 Adventures at the Tire Shop
Post by: oldmansax on July 01, 2011, 04:44:29 AM

 I would buy some gaskets and/or a small ballpeen hammer and proper gasket material and make new ones,

Chris, This is a skill you absolutely need to learn!!! It's not hard

TOM


Title: Re: Technomadia Update - 4106 Adventures at the Tire Shop
Post by: technomadia on July 01, 2011, 07:17:43 AM

 I would buy some gaskets and/or a small ballpeen hammer and proper gasket material and make new ones,

Chris, This is a skill you absolutely need to learn!!! It's not hard

TOM

This is one of many many skills we are looking forward to learning.  The reason we got an old bus was to have fun learning all the systems inside and out.

The real question is - which skills do we need to have mastered before we leave Yuma, and which ones we need to learn before we leave the tire shop...  

Hopefully we can phase in the lessons of bus ownership over a bit longer period of time, but I know that sometimes the bus might have other ideas...  *grin*

   - Chris


Title: Re: Technomadia Update - 4106 Adventures at the Tire Shop
Post by: technomadia on July 01, 2011, 07:23:57 AM
Chris, our 4106 has a leak at the top of the pump. There is a bore which has a spring and disc like plug. It is sealed with an o-ring and a retainer clip holds the whole business in the bore. I think that the o-ring has hardened and needs to be replaced.

I think you've nailed it exactly. Any tips on replacing this o-ring?

How quickly did your leak go through your power steering fluid?

  - Chris


Title: Re: Technomadia Update - 4106 Adventures at the Tire Shop
Post by: Ed Hackenbruch on July 01, 2011, 07:26:27 AM
Learning how to turn a 90 degree corner with out curbing your tires is important, especially since you are getting new tires. You don't want to damage your sidewalls.  :)


Title: Re: Technomadia Update - 4106 Adventures at the Tire Shop
Post by: TedsBUSted on July 01, 2011, 07:40:26 AM
Shoot, I thought that the slight tip from running over a fire hydrant every so often would help to keep the hubs flooded with oil.


Title: Re: Technomadia Update - 4106 Adventures at the Tire Shop
Post by: technomadia on July 01, 2011, 08:58:57 AM
GAH!  Morning not off to a pleasant start.

Got back to the shop, to learn the mechanic proceeded with the oil change yesterday after we left - and put 15w40 in.  They now have what is hopefully the proper 40w stuff inbound to switch out.

Then our overnight shipment from US Coach arrived, and the stud is too big. No clue yet if what we have on the bus was changed out at some point and no longer stock, or if we were shipped the wrong thing, or what.

And to top the frustration off - the power cord they ran us overnight wasn't enough to keep the fridge going. So now the beer is warm.

Ok...  Just venting. We are sure thus is all normal stuff for y'all.

We just want to get on the road and drive 200 miles north to luvrbus and have someone knowledgable!

-Cherie


Title: Re: Technomadia Update - 4106 Adventures at the Tire Shop
Post by: technomadia on July 01, 2011, 09:16:35 AM
Whew. Turns out the shop's machinist just hadn't had enough coffee yet, and the stud is correct after all.


Hopefully, the worst of the morning will be warm beer.

 - Cherie


Title: Re: Technomadia Update - 4106 Adventures at the Tire Shop
Post by: eagle19952 on July 01, 2011, 09:33:53 AM



The real question is - which skills do we need to have mastered before we leave Yuma, and which ones we need to learn before we leave the tire shop...  

Hopefully we can phase in the lessons of bus ownership over a bit longer period of time, but I know that sometimes the bus might have other ideas...  *grin*

   - Chris
[/quote]

You mat not learn this today BUT IF they did not BACK the brake adjusters OFF when the hubs were removed then they were not properly adjusted.
I have found that adjusting them initialy "approximately" will facilitate the install of the hubs AND protect the hub seal integrety....and investment.
The shoes become an alighnment guide.....
bE SURE THAT ALL BRAKES ARE ADJ> PROPERLY<.


Title: Re: Technomadia Update - 4106 Adventures at the Tire Shop
Post by: robertglines1 on July 01, 2011, 09:50:04 AM
Chris: welcome to the world of grease and grime/ Busted Knuckles---Little different than ---the unseen tech world isn't it?  I can understand it better than your world.  Your world scares the----   Enough said  Enjoy your new coach sounds like your in good hands. Back to basics.  Your headed to a good place to get a solid education. These coaches are simple systems but must be maintained correctly. Your coach is pre high tech so is a blessing in a way.


Title: Re: Technomadia Update - 4106 Adventures at the Tire Shop
Post by: Barn Owl on July 01, 2011, 09:56:05 AM
It's going to be exciting and a real thrill to get on the road. I have to remind myself every time I drive the bus to remember to watch the sides as I turn. This advice is good for the old timers, and especially those who are just starting to get some miles under their belts. Taking out vintage bay doors sucks beyond words.


Title: Re: Technomadia Update - 4106 Adventures at the Tire Shop
Post by: technomadia on July 01, 2011, 01:54:12 PM
It's going to be exciting and a real thrill to get on the road.

Indeed it sure was a thrill to pull out of the tire shop and to head down the road (minus the non-thrilling stop for fuel) for a proper test drive on new wheels and rubber.

The bus is a BLAST to drive. She still pulls to the right a little, but she accelerates great, brakes great, and rides great.  (I don't have much to compare it to, but....)  Despite the 110 degree Arizona sun outside, the engine temperature held steady just below 190 degrees.  Air pressure was between 100-120psi.  Oil pressure around 40 psi.  Fluids are all topped off and ready.

Assuming all goes well, we'll probably head out for Havasu just before dawn tomorrow.  *grin*

   - Chris



Title: Re: Technomadia Update - 4106 Adventures at the Tire Shop
Post by: zubzub on July 01, 2011, 02:11:36 PM
Glad you are having fun, with new rubber no less. It is an old bus though so. You do have a IR gun right?


Title: Re: Technomadia Update - 4106 Adventures at the Tire Shop
Post by: technomadia on July 01, 2011, 02:59:13 PM
You do have a IR gun right?

I'd love to get one ASAP.

I tried to buy one at an auto parts store today, but they had no idea what I was looking for.

Any ideas where I might be able to find one in Yuma, AZ?

  - Chris


Title: Re: Technomadia Update - 4106 Adventures at the Tire Shop
Post by: Depewtee on July 01, 2011, 03:20:06 PM
Chris,

I bought an IR thermometer from Home Depot and it serves my purposes well.  Less than $30.00.

http://www.homedepot.com/Tools-Hardware/h_d1/N-5yc1vZarnk/R-100674438/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053 (http://www.homedepot.com/Tools-Hardware/h_d1/N-5yc1vZarnk/R-100674438/h_d2/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053)

Brian


Title: Re: Technomadia Update - 4106 Adventures at the Tire Shop
Post by: Handyjim on July 01, 2011, 03:51:08 PM
Find a Harbor Freight and Tool Store.   www.harborfreight.com (http://www.harborfreight.com)

Usually very good prices.  Lots of things that are good for one time use, but their IR thermos are good (and inexpensive).


Title: Re: Technomadia Update - 4106 Adventures at the Tire Shop
Post by: Van on July 01, 2011, 04:27:31 PM
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/THDStoreFinder?storeId=10051&URL=StoreFinderViewDetails&errorViewName=StoreFinderView&headerStoreFinder=&List=List&catalogId=10053&zip=&distance_1=50&city=yuma&state_1=AZ&distance_2=50&store= (http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/THDStoreFinder?storeId=10051&URL=StoreFinderViewDetails&errorViewName=StoreFinderView&headerStoreFinder=&List=List&catalogId=10053&zip=&distance_1=50&city=yuma&state_1=AZ&distance_2=50&store=)


Title: Re: Technomadia Update - 4106 Adventures at the Tire Shop
Post by: technomadia on July 01, 2011, 04:32:24 PM
Cherie is out running errands right now, and will be stopping at Home Depot.  :-)

  - Chris


Title: Re: Technomadia Update - 4106 Adventures at the Tire Shop
Post by: luvrbus on July 01, 2011, 05:09:39 PM
AutoZone sells a IR for 29 bucks,not to start a contest here but I would spend a little more money and buy one with a adjustable emissivity, a 12:1 spot and read up to 1200 degress they cost around 100 bucks from Extech  JMO



good luck


Title: Re: Technomadia Update - 4106 Adventures at the Tire Shop
Post by: technomadia on July 01, 2011, 05:33:44 PM
Just made a cross-city adventure to get the one from Home Depot.  It'll have to do for tomorrow's adventure.  I ain't going back out in the heat and traffic anymore today. Time to rest up for an early morning departure.
 - Cherie

PS. Woohoo.. just noticed we're climbing the ranks and now 'full members'. Guess we're posting too much :)


Title: Re: Technomadia Update - 4106 Adventures at the Tire Shop
Post by: JohnEd on July 01, 2011, 06:19:42 PM
Shoot the wheel hubs and each tire when you stop and learn how to shoot the surface of the radiator to find plugged rods in the core.  Use it inside while driving to find those air leaks.  They are a serious trouble spot and make AC and heating a really complicated adventure while underway mostly.  The fix is usually really cheap and costs only time and the payback is extreme in comfort.  Entrance door is a really good spot to start.

The higher temp gun will allow you to check the ex manifold for uniform heating that will indicate proper cylinder balance.  Low compression, low/high fuel injection, valve operation.  Dead jug!  All worth going for but don't throw the one you have away...it is really useful.  Check the temps of the windows and the metal around them....stopped and underway.

John


Title: Re: Technomadia Update - 4106 Adventures at the Tire Shop
Post by: Brassman on July 01, 2011, 06:36:42 PM
I'd always want a gun that could shoot the maximum turbo exhaust gas inlet temp (about 1350 for me). But how you ever going to do that on a bus!


Title: Re: Technomadia Update - 4106 Adventures at the Tire Shop
Post by: luvrbus on July 01, 2011, 07:04:42 PM
I have a Extech IR with a 13:1 spot reads up to 1472 degrees and automatically adjusts the emissivity over 212 manual adjustment below 212 neat IR cost 130 bucks from www,calright.com 

good luck


Title: Re: Technomadia Update - 4106 Adventures at the Tire Shop
Post by: Brassman on July 01, 2011, 07:18:00 PM
Thanks for the link. I really like the clamp-amp meter with the IR thermometer.


Title: Re: Technomadia Update - 4106 Adventures at the Tire Shop
Post by: Busted Knuckle on July 02, 2011, 10:33:26 AM
I have a Extech IR with a 13:1 spot reads up to 1472 degrees and automatically adjusts the emissivity over 212 manual adjustment below 212 neat IR cost 130 bucks from www,calright.com 

good luck


www.calright.com (http://www.calright.com)  works just tiny bit better. I could not figure out why it would/could not find it until I found that , instead of a .
;D  BK  ;D


Title: Re: Technomadia Update - 4106 Adventures at the Tire Shop
Post by: luvrbus on July 02, 2011, 11:41:41 AM
That little dot makes a world of difference lol Don got up yet 

good luck


Title: Re: Technomadia Update - 4106 Adventures at the Tire Shop
Post by: Busted Knuckle on July 02, 2011, 12:42:48 PM
With his MH rock'n I ain't a knock'n!

I heard him out there shoot'n earlier so I ain't bother'n him.
;D  BK  ;D


Title: Re: Technomadia Update - 4106 Adventures at the Tire Shop
Post by: Busted Knuckle on July 02, 2011, 12:43:51 PM
BTW he's bought 2 new pieces so far on this trip.
;D  BK  ;D