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Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: belfert on October 09, 2006, 03:07:39 PM



Title: Found my oil leak - now how to fix? - Added Photo
Post by: belfert on October 09, 2006, 03:07:39 PM
I found the oil leak on my Series 60.  It is leaking oil like crazy right above and between the two oil filters.  It looks like this may be the oil cooler.

Is this something I should even think about tackling myself or is it time for a trip to the Detroit dealer to get it fixed? 

The good news is the oil pressure seems to be fine after adding two quarts of oil.  I let it idle at 1000 RPM while looking for the leak and the oil pressure was back up to 50 PSI where it should be.

Brian Elfert


Title: Re: Found my oil leak - now how to fix?
Post by: Ross on October 09, 2006, 04:52:31 PM
If it was me, I'd start taking things apart in the vacinity of the leak until I found the problem, but if your not comfortable doing mechanical type work on the bus (and it doesn't sound like you are), you should take it to a mechanic.

Ross

PS....If you are not comfortable doing repairs, you should get comfortable.  These things can get expensive if you have to take it to a mechanic every time it makes a new noise.


Title: Re: Found my oil leak - now how to fix?
Post by: NJT5047 on October 09, 2006, 06:39:01 PM
Brian, If you know how to use a torque wrench, and have a service manual to get the details and torque specs, that oughta be something you can repair.   You may find a blown "O" ring...as has already been suggested.  Cannot believe the oil filter adaptor is cracked...unless old wreck damage?
As Ross says, you gotta learn to do some of the engine work.   That thing will become soooo expensive to farm out!  ;)
If you don't have service manuals on both the engine and the bus chassis, time to get'em.  A parts manual is a nice touch too...useful to visualize the organization of assemblies. 
If you're not comfortable with working on the engine, do you have any "mechanic" friends?   
Obviously, the filter adaptor has got to be installed per the manual...any failure of the oil filters and related components could get expensive...same's true of the drain plug in the oil pan!  Actually, the DDEC won't let you run it but so low...that's a "shutdown" code.
Have you ruled out the oil filters?  Have you pulled the oil filters off to check for a blown oil filter "O" ring?  If one of the filter "O" rings is damaged, the damage should be visible. 
Good luck, JR 


Title: Re: Found my oil leak - now how to fix?
Post by: Hartley on October 09, 2006, 07:28:57 PM
B,

Remember that the oil cooler is part of the engine cooling system. If you plan on taking it apart you will
need to drain the coolant into a drum so that it can be reused after the repairs.

The leak could just be a cracked oil filter fitting, Maybe someone had trouble getting a filter off and applied
way too much leverage while twisting the oil filter. Could have cracked the casting or fittings.

I have seen too many new filters installed using wrenches that were clearly marked " Hand Tighten ONLY "

Some Gorilla truck mechanic might have weakened the casting by a heavy hand...

Glad you found that much, Things are looking much better now... ::)


Title: Re: Found my oil leak - now how to fix?
Post by: NJT5047 on October 09, 2006, 07:58:19 PM
One additional comment on draining the coolant...if you have valves to block off the heater lines going to the front of the bus, be sure and close them off before draining the coolant.  
You'll be draining 25 or 30 gallons otherwise..or maybe more.   Not sure about a Dina, but I would assume most bus powerplants have some way to isolate the heater cores and related plumbing from the engine.
Hope you don't have to drain the coolant.  I had a very bad experience today with a block heater install.  Actually, that was an attempted block heater install.  Got a little problem with hazmat runoff now.   Hey...we gotta learn the hard way sometimes! Bill says you can't do it that way...even my wife said ain't gonna work....she's laughing!  I don't care for that.   ;)
You know this red antifreeze don't taste as bad as the green stuff.    8)
JR


Title: Re: Found my oil leak - now how to fix?
Post by: Busted Knuckle on October 09, 2006, 08:29:41 PM
You know this red antifreeze don't taste as bad as the green stuff.    8)
JR

Has less calories too! BK  ;D

Oh on a side note JR, we usually put a clean barrell in the pit to drain the coolant into so we can reuse it! (not that we are worried about hazmat out in the boonies like we are!) Oh yeah, I also got probably 20 or so gallons of clean red stuff that we took out of the 102A3 when we changed engines and dad wanted to change over so both buses used the same ol green stuff! If ya need some! BK ;D


Title: Re: Found my oil leak - now how to fix?
Post by: belfert on October 10, 2006, 04:53:43 AM
The oil filters themselves are not leaking.  It is leaking down the block between and behind the two oil filters.  I talked to the service guy at the Detroit dealer and he figured it is probably the oil filter adapter leaking based on my description.  It normally takes 5 to 6 hours on a truck and maybe a bit more on a bus.

I do have a mechanic friend who might be able to help, but he works 12 hour shift Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, and I work during the week 7:00 to 3:00 so there isn't much time for us to get together with the sun setting so early now.

I will be ordering service and parts manuals today.

Brian Elfert


Title: Re: Found my oil leak - now how to fix?
Post by: Ace on October 10, 2006, 05:35:01 AM
Brian, any way to take a picture of the area in question and post it so we can see exactly what it is?

That would probably help us decipher your problem. If you don't have a digital camera, buy yourself a cheap one. It might be better investment at this time over the manuals. With a picture for all to see, would mean MANY heads trying to help over just ONE looking thru a manual!  ;D

Ace


Title: Re: Found my oil leak - now how to fix?
Post by: belfert on October 10, 2006, 07:19:53 AM
Brian, any way to take a picture of the area in question and post it so we can see exactly what it is?

That would probably help us decipher your problem. If you don't have a digital camera, buy yourself a cheap one. It might be better investment at this time over the manuals. With a picture for all to see, would mean MANY heads trying to help over just ONE looking thru a manual!  ;D

I do have a digital camera and will take a picture this evening if I remember. 

I called the local Detroit dealer and got the part numbers for the service and parts books, but they don't stock them!  If I have to have them shipped in, I might as well get them from someone on Ebay or such for a lot less money.

Brian Elfert


Title: Re: Found my oil leak - now how to fix?
Post by: Hartley on October 10, 2006, 09:18:11 AM
Brian,

I just knew that once you were "bitten" by the "Bus" Bug you couldn't walk away clean...

As with most of us it stopped being a hobby and turned into an affliction or obsession depending on the point
of view.
 
The challenges are many but the excitement of doing something by yourself that 5 years ago would wouldn't
even consider possible is just too much to pass up.

I just re-cored a radiator in my MC9 by myself, Big job and lots of potential for mistakes but it worked and I feel
much better now about tackling other stuff that I have never done before.

These things come in stages, It goes from " Oh God it's broke, what am I going to do? " to " Now wait maybe it's not broke that bad" then to " Then stepping back and thinking, going off somewhere to do other stuff and coming back " You start thinking " This isn't impossible or even remotely improbably, Just a dirty job that takes time. But when you get done and everything is working right again, What can I say but the pride in yourself is priceless.

Your bus is your buddy... Even one with a bad attitude can be retrained... There's a lifeforce that you give to your bus and it will reward you for the long term, Maybe be a little cranky at times but that's normal.....

Good Luck....

Dave....


Title: Re: Found my oil leak - now how to fix?
Post by: belfert on October 10, 2006, 10:13:50 AM
I still haven't decided if I really want to tackle this myself.  The service manual and parts manual from a Detroit dealer will cost nearly $300 plus I already know I would need some new tools.  It would cost $700 to $800 to get fixed professionally.  If I buy the manuals, I will have them for next time and that is certainly a good thing.

I would tackle it myself for sure if it wasn't fall with the cold temps and limited daylight.  I also want to take my bus to BK's rally at the end of the month and want to get my freshwater plumbing done before then.

Brian Elfert


Title: Re: Found my oil leak - now how to fix?
Post by: belfert on October 10, 2006, 08:53:30 PM
Well, I forgot to take a picture of my oil leak before it got dark.

I ended up ordering a service manual and parts catalog from someone on Ebay.  It only me $66 instead of $300 through a Detroit dealer that had them in stock.

Brian Elfert


Title: Re: Found my oil leak - now how to fix? - Added Photo
Post by: belfert on October 12, 2006, 01:07:12 PM
Here is a photo of the leak.  The arrow is not quite in the right spot.  It should be slightly more to the right.  It is leaking down the block between and above the two filters.


Title: Re: Found my oil leak - now how to fix? - Added Photo
Post by: Ace on October 12, 2006, 01:30:40 PM
Brian have you already cleaned that area or is that it?

Ace


Title: Re: Found my oil leak - now how to fix? - Added Photo
Post by: belfert on October 12, 2006, 01:34:58 PM
Brian have you already cleaned that area or is that it?

For some reason in the photo, you can't really see the oil leak.  When I start the engine, oil is clearly flowing down the block between the two filters.  I have not cleaned the engine since I last ran it.

I'll see if I can't take another photo with the engine running or something.

Brian Elfert


Title: Re: Found my oil leak - now how to fix? - Added Photo
Post by: Ace on October 12, 2006, 02:09:29 PM
I'll be honest with you. If you haven't cleaned it at all and that's the oil leak, I don't think you have much to worry about because from the looks of it, even the freeze plug looks pretty dry! USUALLY, and oil leak like you originally described makes for a nasty looking mess and I'm just not seeing it in this pic!

Ace


Title: Re: Found my oil leak - now how to fix? - Added Photo
Post by: belfert on October 12, 2006, 03:09:02 PM
I'll be honest with you. If you haven't cleaned it at all and that's the oil leak, I don't think you have much to worry about because from the looks of it, even the freeze plug looks pretty dry! USUALLY, and oil leak like you originally described makes for a nasty looking mess and I'm just not seeing it in this pic!

I cleaned the engine and then ran it.  I have not cleaned it again since I ran the engine.  I took the picture after I cleaned it and after I ran the engine.

Oil is coming out in almost a stream from the leak.  I get a lot of oil on the ground where before I might get a drip every few days.

Brian Elfert


Title: Re: Found my oil leak - now how to fix? - Added Photo
Post by: belfert on October 12, 2006, 08:31:12 PM
I had someone over today and they crawled under the bus and actually looked up at the problem area instead of from the side.  It is for sure the oil filter adapter leaking.  It appears the oil filter adapter may be cracked.  The oil cooler cover has to come off to fix the oil filter adapter so the orings on the cooler will get replaced too.

Brian Elfert


Title: Re: Found my oil leak - now how to fix? -
Post by: TommyT on October 13, 2006, 01:23:52 AM
Ok,I'm new to this board.I signed on so I could help with your oil leak. More than likely it is the o-ring between the oil cooler/filter base and the block. Over time the heat will harden the o-rings.Drain water/antifreeze,remove water hoses/pipe from oil cooler to water pump(now would be a good time to replace the 2 short hoses and the 2 smaller ones from the water pump to the thermostat housing)you will have to loosen/remove all 4 clamps. unhook all heater hoses,turbo oil supply line,etc from oil cooler.remove oil filters. there are 4 bolts(15mm socket size) that hold the oil cooler/filter base to the block 2 behind the filters 1 at the rear(in your case the front being a bus) and 1 at the top,remove bolts and pull oil cooler/filter base from block. there are 3 o-rings 1 water(large) and 2 oil(small) clean oil cooler and block replace all orings and reassemble ( put a little bit of grease on oil o-rings to hold them in place,lubricate water o-ring and hoses with antifreeze) cost of o-rings and hoses should be around 40$ to 60$ This is a pretty easy job. Hope this helps. p/s DO NOT USE THE BOLTS TO PULL THE OIL COOLER UP TO THE BLOCK!!!!$$$$$$  TommyT   


Title: Re: Found my oil leak - now how to fix? - Added Photo
Post by: Burgermeister on October 13, 2006, 03:34:28 AM
Post Deleted and sent to moderators for review.

Dallas


Title: Re: Found my oil leak - now how to fix? - Added Photo
Post by: Nick Badame Refrig/ACC on October 13, 2006, 04:18:42 AM
Welcome TommyT,

We are glad you joined!

Marc is right, You seem to know your S60's. Thanks for chimming in to help Brian.

Nick Badame


Title: Re: Found my oil leak - now how to fix? - Added Photo
Post by: DrivingMissLazy on October 13, 2006, 04:45:46 AM
My welcome also Tommy. What part of the country are you from and where have you been? Your post was great. It is so nice to read a post like yours that will be a help to Brian as well as anyone else with similar problems. And we all learned something today. Thanks again and welcome aboard!

And Marc, the days of the flaming are over. As you are aware, the last flame only lasted a couple of hours before it disappeared.
Richard


Title: Re: Found my oil leak - now how to fix? -
Post by: belfert on October 13, 2006, 04:57:01 AM
Ok,I'm new to this board.I signed on so I could help with your oil leak. More than likely it is the o-ring between the oil cooler/filter base and the block. Over time the heat will harden the o-rings.Drain water/antifreeze,remove water hoses/pipe from oil cooler to water pump(now would be a good time to replace the 2 short hoses and the 2 smaller ones from the water pump to the thermostat housing)you will have to loosen/remove all 4 clamps. unhook all heater hoses,turbo oil supply line,etc from oil cooler.remove oil filters. there are 4 bolts(15mm socket size) that hold the oil cooler/filter base to the block 2 behind the filters 1 at the rear(in your case the front being a bus) and 1 at the top,remove bolts and pull oil cooler/filter base from block. there are 3 o-rings 1 water(large) and 2 oil(small) clean oil cooler and block replace all orings and reassemble ( put a little bit of grease on oil o-rings to hold them in place,lubricate water o-ring and hoses with antifreeze) cost of o-rings and hoses should be around 40$ to 60$ This is a pretty easy job. Hope this helps. p/s DO NOT USE THE BOLTS TO PULL THE OIL COOLER UP TO THE BLOCK!!!!$$$$$$  TommyT   

Thanks much.  After your description, I would do it myself, but unfortunately I just hired a guy last night to do it for $400 if I get the parts.  The five O-rings and paper gasket cost a total of $20.01 at the local Detroit dealer.

Brian Elfert


Title: Re: Found my oil leak - now how to fix? - Added Photo
Post by: Burgermeister on October 13, 2006, 06:28:05 AM
Deleted and sent to moderators for review

Dallas



Title: Re: Found my oil leak - now how to fix? - Added Photo
Post by: DrivingMissLazy on October 13, 2006, 07:35:23 AM
So what is the recommended solution? Suggestions?

Mine would be to ban a poster when three posts have had to be removed from the board for inappropriate content (as determined by a consensus of the moderators). Anybody else got any suggestions?
Richard


Richard,

Even an hour's residence time on the BB is enough to dissuade the newby and others.

Moderators are great but nothing works better than the realization that the majority of the BB is behind and supports the task performed by the moderators.

Bullies and inconsiderate people will always look for the [apparent] weak and submissive victim.  "Kissing the boo boo" made by the bully helps the victim but does little to deter the perp!

Semper Vigilatus! etc.




Title: Re: Found my oil leak - now how to fix? - Added Photo
Post by: Ace on October 13, 2006, 11:18:34 AM
Deleted and forwarded to moderators for review.
Richard



Title: Re: Found my oil leak - now how to fix? - Added Photo
Post by: Burgermeister on October 13, 2006, 12:55:30 PM
Deleted and sent to moderators for review

Dallas


Title: Re: Found my oil leak - now how to fix? - Added Photo
Post by: Ace on October 13, 2006, 01:41:09 PM
Message deleted and forwarded to moderator for review.

You guys take your disagreements to your email or IM. This board is not the place for it.
Richard



Title: Re: Found my oil leak - now how to fix? - Added Photo
Post by: Dallas on October 13, 2006, 03:53:11 PM
Much more of this and I will lock this topic until further notice.


Title: Re: Found my oil leak - now how to fix? - Added Photo
Post by: belfert on October 13, 2006, 03:57:32 PM
What the heck is going on here?  I started this thread to ask about fixing my oil leak.

This thread seems to have denigrated into some sort of pissing match between a few posters.  Maybe some posts got yanked before I saw them, but I didn't see anything that should have started this.

My vote would be to lock this thread and I'll start a new one if I still need any help.  I'm going to leave for the Detroit dealer in a few minutes to pick up the parts to fix my oil leak.

Brian Elfert


Title: Re: Found my oil leak - now how to fix? - Added Photo
Post by: brojcol on October 13, 2006, 04:00:27 PM
Hey Brian,

I wonder if you could seal that leak with some JB Weld, or something...

Jimmy


Title: Re: Found my oil leak - now how to fix? - Added Photo
Post by: Burgermeister on October 13, 2006, 04:00:53 PM

Deleted and forwarded to moderators for review.  Jack



Title: Re: Found my oil leak - now how to fix? - Added Photo
Post by: belfert on October 13, 2006, 05:26:25 PM
Hey Brian,

I wonder if you could seal that leak with some JB Weld, or something...

I don't believe JB Weld wourld be appropriate in this case.  It appears that it is leaking where the oil filter adapter meets the block.  The O-ring here is probably bad.  There may also be some cracks in the adapter and I would rather get it welded right rather than trying JB Weld for this.  JB Weld certainly has many good uses, especially for temporary repairs, but I think I'll skip it this time.

Brian Elfert


Title: Re: Found my oil leak - now how to fix? - Added Photo
Post by: Busted Knuckle on October 13, 2006, 07:48:07 PM
Brian remeber what I said about seals, rubber products, and gaskets dry up when they sit long periods of time unused? I believe this is the case here! BK  ;D


Title: Re: Found my oil leak - now how to fix? - Added Photo
Post by: eglluvr on October 13, 2006, 07:52:54 PM
BK,  :o  Was that an Overt "I Told You So?"  I'm Crushed....


To Think You were the one who Just Quoted My Twisted Brother Rodney

Cain't we all Just Get Along?!?!


 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


Title: Re: Found my oil leak - now how to fix? - Added Photo
Post by: tekebird on October 14, 2006, 05:43:50 PM
Brian, Dina one ebay...salvage title.......parts room in a bus....

Item.   180038567129 


Title: Re: Found my oil leak - now how to fix? - Added Photo
Post by: NJT5047 on October 14, 2006, 07:20:48 PM
You probably don't have any "cracked" or damaged steel...just "O" rings or gaskets leaking.  If the adaptor is broken, I'd be very cautious about welding or repairing the thing.   Get into all sorts of alignment and porosity issues.  My SWAG is that the adaptor is OK, just needs gaskets and seals.   I'd replace the adaptor if it proves to be cracked. 
Hate to ask what the adaptor costs...there may be good used on the market now...used engine parts are showing up for S60s now. 
I wouldn't use any epoxies, even though they are amazing quickie repair items, on a critical part such as an oil filter adaptor. 
JR



Title: Re: Found my oil leak - now how to fix? - Added Photo
Post by: belfert on October 14, 2006, 08:24:52 PM
You probably don't have any "cracked" or damaged steel...just "O" rings or gaskets leaking.  If the adaptor is broken, I'd be very cautious about welding or repairing the thing.   Get into all sorts of alignment and porosity issues.  My SWAG is that the adaptor is OK, just needs gaskets and seals.   I'd replace the adaptor if it proves to be cracked. 
Hate to ask what the adaptor costs...there may be good used on the market now...used engine parts are showing up for S60s now. 
I wouldn't use any epoxies, even though they are amazing quickie repair items, on a critical part such as an oil filter adaptor. 

The adapter costs $180 from the local Detroit dealer or a local truck boneyard has one for $75.  The mechanic that is going to do the work thought he could see stress cracks in it, but we'll find out once he removes it I guess.

I got the Series 60 repair manual in today's mail and boy is it worthless as far as how to remove the oil filter adapter.  There is a whole three sentences on how to remove it.  They don't even mention the four bolts that hold it to the block.  The four bolts are only mentioned in the section on how to reinstall.

It actually looks like an easy repair that I would just tackle myself if it wasn't for the cold weather and lack of daylight these days.

Brian Elfert


Title: Re: Found my oil leak - now how to fix? - Added Photo
Post by: belfert on October 14, 2006, 08:37:05 PM
Brian, Dina one ebay...salvage title.......parts room in a bus....

Item.   180038567129 

I can pretty much guarantee I could never afford that bus.  The Series 60 engine and B500 tranny alone are worth easily $15,000.  I think a 1997 has a 12.7 instead of the 11.1 I have.

Besides, I have no space for another bus.  It looks like it would still be driveable, but I'm not sure if it would be legal to drive anywhere.

Brian Elfert


Title: Re: Found my oil leak - now how to fix? - Added Photo
Post by: tekebird on October 16, 2006, 08:13:48 AM
I would guess that it is either an insurance total........or the company didn't want to turn it in to the insurance for fear of loosing covrerage.

might go cheap.

I am sure it is fixable but is it worth it, when something like this happened in days of old....GM would send you a complete front end on a pallet and your shop guys riveted it on and you were done.


Title: Re: Found my oil leak - now how to fix? - Added Photo
Post by: H3Jim on October 16, 2006, 08:28:19 AM
Well Brian, it doesn't have the front door that you dont like :o)  Of course it doesn't have one at all.

I bet it goes cheap, but even then its probably not worth the hassle unless you knew you needed something big right now.


Title: Re: Found my oil leak - now how to fix? - Added Photo
Post by: eglluvr on October 16, 2006, 05:13:45 PM
I think Cleaning the escort seat  :-[ might be the real dealbreaker on that particular buggy     ;D


Title: Re: Found my oil leak - now how to fix? - Added Photo
Post by: Len Silva on October 16, 2006, 05:47:44 PM
It's only about 35 miles from Scapoose, It'll be on Bart Grabhorns lot next week.

Len