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Title: Any cold weather starting advice?
Post by: Bus Busted on November 10, 2011, 04:13:23 PM
   This will be my first bus winter. I will be using my bus through the winter, so covering and waiting til Spring won't work. I know that there are no spark plugs and what fires the fuel is the heat of compression. So what is the best way to start a 6v92 turbo in cold weather? Is it best to crank for long 15-20 sec runs or short 5 sec bursts? Should you not touch the pedal, or press it? We are only down to about 35 deg, but had trouble starting and fogged a very large area with white smoke (unburned fuel). Any advice for a first time cold weather user would be great. Like when do you plug it in before starting? For how long do you plug it in before starting? How cold before using starting fluid? Should I be adding anything to the fuel for winter use? Should you start it every day or once a week? Thanks for any help, Jon


Title: Re: Any cold weather starting advice?
Post by: bevans6 on November 10, 2011, 04:22:25 PM
You start with compression creating heat, so cranking for 10 seconds at a time creates heat in the chambers without overheating the starter motor.  Plugging in the block heater for an hour, or three hours, before starting works wonders.  A little shot of starting spray lights the fire, warms things up enough for the engine to continue running.  Cranking for 10 seconds with the engine stop lever held in the stop position, then gradually released also works - the compression warms up the chambers with no fuel, then you add fuel and she starts to run.  Don't press the accelerator pedal,you have a starting assist on the governor that is over-ridden when you do that.

Brian


Title: Re: Any cold weather starting advice?
Post by: Scott & Heather on November 10, 2011, 04:45:39 PM
Some will tell you starting fluid is bad, but there are individuals who have used starting fluid to make a bus drive down the road in an emergency...I have a small flap that is perfect for injecting it. Works wonders. Plug it in when you can. Even in the coldest weather, our bus started with a shot of ether.


Title: Re: Any cold weather starting advice?
Post by: Seayfam on November 10, 2011, 05:41:37 PM
Some will tell you starting fluid is bad, but there are individuals who have used starting fluid to make a bus drive down the road in an emergency...I have a small flap that is perfect for injecting it. Works wonders. Plug it in when you can. Even in the coldest weather, our bus started with a shot of ether.

A lot of your older equiptment (pre glow plug) had ether injection. My bus has it and so does my D3 Caterpillar. Ether is bad in your newer Diesels with glow plugs. So I wouldn't recommend using it in one of them.

When I start my bus in freezing temps, I use what Bevans6 just explained. I go to the rear of my bus and use the rear start with the stop lever held in. If that doesn't work (Usually it does) I then use my ether injection. This is only if I can't plug it in. Plugging it in is the best!


Title: Re: Any cold weather starting advice?
Post by: Bus Busted on November 10, 2011, 06:26:33 PM
Thanks, this is the type of hands on info I was looking for!


Title: Re: Any cold weather starting advice?
Post by: luvrbus on November 10, 2011, 06:48:45 PM
I have never used starting fluid but it is not going to hurt it there is not enough either in the spray cans to harm one back when we had real either it would get you lol. 

If the engine is in good shape and the starting aid is adjusted right they will fire down to in high 20's the turbo engines are a little tougher to fire in cold weather because of the lower compression.

 I have never held the fuel stop spin it for a few seconds let it stand try again they will go do like Brian said don't push the pedal

good luck


Title: Re: Any cold weather starting advice?
Post by: TomC on November 10, 2011, 07:50:59 PM
First before it gets much colder-be sure to add fuel/water dispersant in the form of fuel treatment.  Doesn't do any good to have all these tricks to start the engine if the fuel has gelled up.  I know Diesel Service works well down to -20 degrees.

If you're engine is smoking alot at start up, you might try starting from the back.  Turn on the ignition, hold in the governor stop lever by hand and with the other hit the starter.  Let the engine turn over for about 10 seconds then slowly release the stop lever and the engine will just come up to idle-probably with a lot less smoke.  Ether works well also.  Spraying directly into the blower when the engine was at -20 degrees got the fire lit up.  Good Luck, TomC


Title: Re: Any cold weather starting advice?
Post by: buswarrior on November 10, 2011, 08:19:37 PM
For a busnut, just plugging in a block heater for an hour or two, or using a Webasto or similar coolant boiler, closes the book on the whole issue.

However, those few who are parked away from power and have no coolant boiler have fewer choices.

In the cold, generally speaking, don't bother starting the engine unless you are going for a drive.

The other posters have already detailed the short crank and wait, then short crank again strategy.

Fuel additives are a good idea if your fuel tank sits for long periods without regular trips to the fuel pump.
Condensation and where it might be freezing may be your bigger issue, over fuel gelling. Coaches don't get gelling trouble as early as the trucks do, everything is more sheltered in a coach, and a DD 2 stroke passes a lot of heat relatively quickly to the fuel, compared to other older engine brands.

Batteries need to be in top shape, and left with the disconnect pulled to avoid parasitic loads ruining everything.

Those in storage facilities need to think really hard about a basic solar panel mounted flat on the roof for battery maintenance.

And if the cranking is getting weak, use the love spray, now, before you can't crank at all.

starting fluid, so called love spray, as you sure love it when the engine fires on the last bit of power left to crank in the batteries and you are freezing your knuts off trying...

happy coaching!
buswarrior






Title: Re: Any cold weather starting advice?
Post by: Joe Camper on November 11, 2011, 04:01:13 AM
I am in Chicago store outside with no power to the bus. The quickest way to fire mine when it gets very cold without waiting for a preheat is very short bursts of less than 5 seconds. It will kick on the second one and start on the 3rd or 4th.

Works every time

If I stay on the starter it will crank forever but will not fire.

Preheat times are Electric block heater 2 to 4 hr min. E-spar and Webasto 1/2 hr to 45 min.


Title: Re: Any cold weather starting advice?
Post by: Tikvah on November 11, 2011, 04:54:00 AM
Okay - stupid question, but I have to ask.  Can someone show me what the engine stop leaver is?  What does it look like?  How do I know what direction it moves?



Title: Re: Any cold weather starting advice?
Post by: bevans6 on November 11, 2011, 05:05:25 AM
The engine stop lever is the other lever on top of the mechanical governor (the one that isn't the speed/throttle lever and that doesn't have the throttle cable attached to it).  On my MCI it is pushed with an air cylinder.  Turning it clockwise is making it stop the engine.  If you have DDEC, I don't know that there even is a stop lever!

Brian


Title: Re: Any cold weather starting advice?
Post by: Oonrahnjay on November 11, 2011, 05:24:51 AM
 (snip) Fuel additives are a good idea if your fuel tank sits for long periods without regular trips to the fuel pump.  Condensation and where it might be freezing may be your bigger issue, over fuel gelling. Coaches don't get gelling trouble as early as the trucks do, everything is more sheltered in a coach, and a DD 2 stroke passes a lot of heat relatively quickly to the fuel, compared to other older engine brands.  happy coaching!
buswarrior    

      Yes.  In temps below about 10 degrees F, water crystals (and their is ALWAYS water in diesel) will form ice and plug filters in a second.  At that point, you stand a chance if you can get "Diesel 911"* in your filter but that doesn't help the rest of your fuel system if there are any one-way valves or restrictors.  Yhe best solution is to run the bus often and buy fuel from place with high-turnover but we can't always do that.  "Power Service Diesel Treatment" in the white bottle has an antiwater agent (I'm pretty sure at least some of the "Howe's" products do, too).  This chemical in the additive breaks water up into individual molecules so that it will pass right through your fuel system and be burned with the fuel; it also stops the water from freezing (like putting salt on your driveway but the additive chemical isn't corrosive), and it also has a lubricant to stop any corrosion from the water or from any abrasive effects of the water molecules in the fuel.

(* "Diesel 011" will thaw out a frozen or gelled system if you can get even a tiny bit of circulation in the system but it contains high levels of alcohol and other aggressive chemicals and even Power Service recommends only using it in an emergency and only as little as you need.)

       Diesel fuel naturally attracts water.  Since diesel is an oil and oil and water don't mix, small amounts of water (we're talking small numbers per million here) get dispersed in the the diesel fuel and that's not usually a problem.  But if more than that minimum amount of water gets in the fuel (and the ASTM/API/EPA specs for ULSD fuel have a pretty low allowable PPM for water), you begin to get beads of water and that when things begin to get bad.   At that point, the water has overwhelmed the fuel's ability to absorb it (OK, chemically it doesn't absorb it you know what I mean).  This is the point that water begins to rust your tanks, clog your filters, and freeze into ice at low temps.  

       Water is always present in diesel fuel.  Some amount will be in the fuel from the refinery (but it's a low level, as noted before) but it can increase from contamination in tanker trucks, contamination tanks and pumps at filling stations, and from contamination in your tank on the bus.  (The two big sources on this contamination are places in the system that allow the rain water to get in and also condensation - as the temperature of the air changes, water tends to condense out of the air on the inner surface of a tank.  A tank that's full of fuel greatly minimizes this.)

       So, to prepare a vehicle for cold weather -- 1)  Fill the tank with clean, dry fuel.  2)  Drain an ounce or so from the bottom of each fuel filter* into a glass jar - see if there are any bubbles of water in the fuel.  Refill the filters with clean fuel, if necessary (usually you don't have to drain enough out to make this necessary -- you can also refill the filters with straight fuel additive, it's mostly diesel fuel to dissolve the additive chemicals anyway).  3)  Treat your tank with a good anti-water additive in the concentration listed on the bottle.  4) Run the engine to circulate the fuel and additive and also to warm up your system.  Some people also put a "plug" that contains water absorbing chemicals into the fuel filler but that's overkill most most of the circumstances that we will see.

(*  If you have a low point drain on your fuel tank, drain a few ounces of fuel into the jar, too.  But most of us won't have a drain like this.)

      Once you've done this, your system will be about as well protected from water and fuel gelling as you can get.  And we at least get a break in that cold air holds much less water than warm air so once you've done this, you probably won't be getting much condensation into your tanks over the winter.  But be aware that driving your coach will warm the fuel in the tank and that may make it more likely draw in water.  If you run your coach much in the winter, you may want to think of adding a bit of additive at regular intervals as you refill the fuel.  And another break is that an engine that's run often disperses the water and it's not a problem for them -- the "worst case" is a bus that's only run occasionally in the winter and is left with a partially-empty fuel tank.

      Also, most of the fuel additives contain a "cetane improver" that makes a diesel start quicker/easier and run more smoothly while it's warming up.  Check the bottle.

      Oh, yeah, and I'll just repeat what everyone else has said, a block heater is the best thing you can do for better starting in the winter.


Title: Re: Any cold weather starting advice?
Post by: bobofthenorth on November 11, 2011, 07:46:30 AM
I think I've seen as much cold weather as anybody here. The best way to start in cold weather is to go south before it gets cold.

More to the point, batteries, batteries, batteries. Cold weather will quickly separate the sheep from the goats. Keep them charged & keep them warm. Get the oil warmed up somehow - weed burner if necessary. Thick oil & cold batteries is a recipe for disappointment. And one piece of very good advice I received a long time ago - always park it so you can get at the noisy end. There's nothing worse than trying to work in the dark & cold in the back end of the shop because you backed it in.


Title: Re: Any cold weather starting advice?
Post by: luvrbus on November 11, 2011, 08:01:24 AM
I don't know what you call cold Bob anyone that wears shorts in 30 degrees 60 here and I have a t shirt plus a sweat if you were here I know you would be in shorts standing outside drinking tea  lol, 

 I do agree with the batteries the heavy @$# 8D's are a mans best friend in cold weather I have jumped many a bus in the northwest with the 2 group 31 that spin for a few seconds and it is overwith


good luck


Title: Re: Any cold weather starting advice?
Post by: blank on November 11, 2011, 08:43:33 AM
I think I've seen as much cold weather as anybody here. The best way to start in cold weather is to go south before it gets cold.


  I couldn't agree more.

  But for those who wont migrate, small portable generators are so cheap and readily available, there just is no argument not to preheat these monsters regardless of where their parked.

  I likely will tie my Generator into the Bus cooling system. I would start that first and let it power the engine heater, and once the Gen started flowing coolant it would add additional heat. Probably wouldn't take long on a cold day.


Title: Re: Any cold weather starting advice?
Post by: Paladin on November 11, 2011, 08:53:35 AM
I keep a battery maintainer on the batteries and before I start in cold weather I plug in the block heater for at least two hours depending on how cold it is. After that the engine comes to life just about as easily as in warm weather unless it's really, really cold. Once started I let the engine warm up a little bit more before I do anything more. Get the fluids warmed up and flowing nicely.......  

I think I've only had to crank it twice or more a couple of times with the block heater on.


Title: Re: Any cold weather starting advice?
Post by: bevans6 on November 11, 2011, 10:22:00 AM
When I've been boondocking on sub=freezing mornings I find I get all the help I need by running my generator for a hour with the block heater plugged in to it.  Start gen, plug it, make coffee, eat breakfast, do dishes, have shower, and ready to leave...

Brian


Title: Re: Any cold weather starting advice?
Post by: blank on November 11, 2011, 02:22:22 PM
When I've been boondocking on sub=freezing mornings I find I get all the help I need by running my generator for a hour with the block heater plugged in to it.  Start gen, plug it, make coffee, eat breakfast, do dishes, have shower, and ready to leave...

Brian

  Yeah, but is your Genny diesel too? lol.


Title: Re: Any cold weather starting advice?
Post by: Joe Camper on November 11, 2011, 03:37:36 PM
Genny has glow plugs.

I have experimented with ours starting it at zero just to see if it would and it can.

It didnt like it and I will not do that again just to see but now I know I can if I have to.


Title: Re: Any cold weather starting advice?
Post by: buswarrior on November 11, 2011, 06:28:37 PM
Glow plugs, a great invention, and have you checked yours?

Another preventive maintenance item, put the ohm meter to them, keep the wiring to them in tip top shape, test to be sure the power gets to them.

I have a 15K Onan diesel unit, that I care for, circa 1990, that I have to re-wire the plugs to the remote controls as the inside of the multi-wire connector has turned horribly green.

It was a lack of glow plug power that got me searching around...

On all of your electrical connections, you want them protected against corrosion. Every joint I take apart, work on, or build, gets sprayed now with a migrating lubricating spray:

one of the Krown products : http://krown.com/#products/aerosol/ (http://krown.com/#products/aerosol/) 

or the one I like, Termin8R :
http://www.spectraproducts.ca/Products/Termin8R/tabid/73/Default.aspx (http://www.spectraproducts.ca/Products/Termin8R/tabid/73/Default.aspx)

Gets into the connections and wires in ways that dielectric grease simply cannot, with far less effort or time.

Cold weather starting is heavy on the electric side being in top shape, right down to the low amperage signal wires passing good current to the relays.

happy coaching!
buswarrior




Title: Re: Any cold weather starting advice?
Post by: luvrbus on November 11, 2011, 06:50:36 PM
A air intake glow plug type heater is not a bad way to go on a DD either they heat the air before entering the engine

good luck


Title: Re: Any cold weather starting advice?
Post by: Bill B /bus on November 11, 2011, 08:09:38 PM
In all your discussions and hints nobody has mentioned winter fuel. That is diesel fuel, #2 oil mixed with up to 50% with #1 (kerosene). If you don't have a winter fuel blend in the tank  then somewhere around the 0-10F that waxing will start and your filter will plug.  So the trick is to fill your tank when the fuel blend is a winter blend. Normally around the middle of October or later.

Picture a trucker hauling produce north from Florida. Last fuel stop in South Carolina. Entering Maine at oh dark thirty and below zero and goes slower and slower until he's parked on the shoulder. Filter change and the 911 treatment to get him going. Plus all he had was a light weight jacket for outside.

Bill


Title: Re: Any cold weather starting advice?
Post by: buswarrior on November 11, 2011, 08:18:47 PM
That same southern trucker who thought there was money in running north,

besides no decent coat, or gloves, or hat,

also has only water in his radiator...

happy coaching!
buswarrior



Title: Re: Any cold weather starting advice?
Post by: eagle19952 on November 11, 2011, 11:30:55 PM
weed burner if necessary.....An Alaskan's best friend.
I would add one more thing...4 each 2 foot sections of 4 inch hvy guage stove pipe and a 90* elbow, keeps the fire away from the oil and directs the heat where its needed AND at -40* it is way cheaper and faster than a block heater and electricity @ 22-40 cents a kw....course a little cardboard of wind block will make it just that much more efficient.
ESPECIALLY if your genny fails.......
Good Luck.


Title: Re: Any cold weather starting advice?
Post by: RJ on November 12, 2011, 03:43:55 AM
Jon -

Lots of good suggestions here.  I'll add a few more.

Holding the fuel lever in the stop position is more difficult on your MCI - you've got to be extra careful you don't get tangled up in the cooling blower belt.

Don't start it if you're not going to drive it.  Diesels cool when they idle.

If you do take it for a drive, make it long enough for all the various fluids to thoroughly warm up.

If you do take it for a drive, do so as soon as the air pressure comes up.  Use the fast idle to speed up the process.

FWIW & HTH. . .

 ;)



Title: Re: Any cold weather starting advice?
Post by: blank on November 12, 2011, 04:52:53 AM
 -40*F in Alaska? I keep telling people Minnesota is as cold as Alaska but they wont believe me. I recorded -44*F once on a digital thermometer just North of Minneapolis, which likely wasn't the coldest I had ever experienced up there (grew up in Duluth!). The coldest it gets here is about zero and it doesn't last long. Thats still colder than I would like, but its a compromise I can live with.

  No one in business up in Minnesota doesn't plug in their diesels at night, or keep them in a warm building unless their idiots. Plugged in they will spin over like a warm summer day. Oil pressure comes up instantly, its just way, way better for the engine.

  Cranking a diesel (or gas) engine up cold at the bottom of their ability to start is brutal. As soon as the engine lights off the piston is heated in less than a minute to over 1000*F inside an ice cold liner. The scuffing is incredible. If you've ever had real cold engines start and quit and be hard to turn over for a few minutes, its often from seizure of the pistons in the cylinders.




Title: Re: Any cold weather starting advice?
Post by: blank on November 12, 2011, 05:07:41 AM
Entering Maine at oh dark thirty and below zero and goes slower and slower until he's parked on the shoulder. Plus all he had was a light weight jacket for outside.

Bill

  My Dad worked with a guy at the Duluth AFB who kept working outside with only a light hat. He came in the hut one day, and when he rubbed his ears the bottoms snapped off. He knew another guy from the base who froze to death when his car quit and he tried walking. They found him less than a 1/4 mile from his car. I knew a guy some years ago who did the same, he was found less than 300 feet from his car. A girl my Nephew went to school with got off the Bus at the wrong stop and decided to walk home with only a pair of loafers on her feet. She had them amputated that evening. Cold can and will kill you. I was always amazed at how lackadaisical people were running around in the cold. Girls think -30*F is a day to be a fashion model, Macho guys think a light jacket is good enough. You need to prepare. My flight instructor said always dress like you might have to walk ten miles through the woods. 


Title: Re: Any cold weather starting advice?
Post by: demodriver on November 12, 2011, 05:34:04 AM
where did you get fuel at in the eagle?  Certain brand of fuels IMO will make a diesel start harder. 

Obviously I never started the eagle when it was this cold out but it hasnt ever smoked like you mentioned.   Have you added any oil to it? If so what? 

Eric


Title: Re: Any cold weather starting advice?
Post by: Bus Busted on November 13, 2011, 05:56:58 AM
Eric, I filled up at Flying J on the SW side of Indy and have not added oil yet (level looks good). I found the fuel lever on the MCI, but I am talking about the Eagle. I know where it should be, but still looking. Found a valve to shoot starting fluid in, that worked well. Testing the block heater plug to see if it's working. Weather jumped back up into the high 50s, so it starting great again!

Eric, Do you know when it had it's last tune-up and last oil change? Does good on MPG so not too worried.


Title: Re: Any cold weather starting advice?
Post by: demodriver on November 13, 2011, 07:47:17 AM
IF I remember right the oil change papers from russlers truck service in Marion IN are in the folder of paper work. The oil is probably old and could stand to be changed tho.


Title: Re: Any cold weather starting advice?
Post by: Busted Knuckle on November 13, 2011, 11:18:08 AM
Quote from: Bill B /bus
Picture a trucker hauling produce north from Florida. Last fuel stop in South Carolina. Entering Maine at oh dark thirty and below zero and goes slower and slower until he's parked on the shoulder. Filter change and the 911 treatment to get him going. Plus all he had was a light weight jacket for outside.
Bill

Or picture a young ambitious tow truck driver from KY in a Cabover Midliner Mack tow truck that the owner told him. "The engine returns warm fuel to the tanks, so it'll be fine."

Up in the middle of nowhere near a little town called Hawk Lake, Ont. in mid January just did a swap out. (took our customers good tractor up to driver that had wrecked one)
Got up there fine, switched trucks fine, jumped in SUPER COLD Mack very very cold from idling about 2 hrs while I froze switching trucks.
Took off down what was called a hwy (I really think it was a path thru a field) and the truck started getting more and more sluggish! (never was a power house, after all it was a midliner!)
Pulled into a mom & pop grocery that had gas pumps and headed inside. An old man come out and said. "Quick son let's put some petro in that thing before it dies!"
As he stuck the GAS hose in it I was trying to protest between the frozen chattering of my teeth & body that it was a diesel. After he put about 5-7 gallons in, it started smoothing out and picking back up RPMs.
He just smiled at me, never said a word, grabbed my arm and drug me inside beside the ol' woodstove while he poured me some hot coffee.

As soon as I was able to stop shivering enough to sip the coffee and fmy face unfroze I thanked him and then asked "I thought you weren't supposed to put gasoline in a diesel"
He laughed and said "Well maybe, but ya ain't supposed to come up the great white north with out winter blend fuel, and proper winter out door gear either, eh."

Learned a valuable lesson there I did! Nope no Canada for me in the winter!
;D  BK  ;D


Title: Re: Any cold weather starting advice?
Post by: Scott & Heather on November 13, 2011, 03:50:58 PM
I've heard of a lot of folks thinning diesel with RUG or Kerosene...what are the long term bad effects of this if any? Anything specific to look for?


Title: Re: Any cold weather starting advice?
Post by: Seayfam on November 13, 2011, 04:05:23 PM
Welcome to Alaskans winter blend. All my vehicles up here are diesel. The shops up here love all these Diesels running around. It is their bread and butter. Most people don't add lubricant to their Diesels when running winter blend. The winter blend fuel is much dryer (little lube) than the summer fuel, and has less Cetane. I always run a Cetane booster and two cycle oil with the winter blend. So far I haven't had any injector issues or pump issues. The shops are constantly changing them here.


Title: Re: Any cold weather starting advice?
Post by: Geoff on November 13, 2011, 04:07:35 PM
Love your story, BK.  I have one of those huge Racor 20/20 fuel filters and this particular one has a heating element in it.  I never put in on because of space problems.  I don't plan on going to the great Northwest anytime soon, but it might come in handy.


Title: Re: Any cold weather starting advice?
Post by: Busted Knuckle on November 13, 2011, 05:26:16 PM
Love your story, BK.  I have one of those huge Racor 20/20 fuel filters and this particular one has a heating element in it.  I never put in on because of space problems.  I don't plan on going to the great Northwest anytime soon, but it might come in handy.

Shoot Geoff back in 1990 I ain't even sure they had those style filters.

I do know we did put in some "artic" tank heaters on all the trucks after that just in case. (they were tapped into the heater cores and if we had the heat in the truck on, they were on.)
;D  BK  ;D


Title: Re: Any cold weather starting advice?
Post by: TomC on November 13, 2011, 07:57:16 PM
Racor heated fuel/water separators have been around for at least 30 years.  If I know the morning I'm leaving is going to be cold, I'll get out my 500 watt halogen work light and turn it on aimed up to the oil pan over night (if your on the power pole).  If not, we always crank up the generator in the morning to do coffee, heat the water, etc so the halogen work light under the pan works pretty well too.  Just a really cheap way to do it (about $15 for a 500watt halogen light).  Good luck, TomC


Title: Re: Any cold weather starting advice?
Post by: Busted Knuckle on November 13, 2011, 08:12:39 PM
Quote from: TomC
Racor heated fuel/water separators have been around for at least 30 years. 
Good luck, TomC

I can assure you I didn't know about them then and that ol' Mack shor didn't have one!

Shoot most people would have a heart attack to learn we used to use an old hubcap or metal garbage can lid with charcoal and diesel to warm up oil pans.
But a country boy will do what it takes to make it work one way or the other.
;D  BK  ;D


Title: Re: Any cold weather starting advice?
Post by: Oonrahnjay on November 13, 2011, 08:14:12 PM
 (snip) If I know the morning I'm leaving is going to be cold, I'll get out my 500 watt halogen work light and turn it on aimed up to the oil pan over night  

     Yeah, and it really helps if you can put a "skirt" of like cardboard or whatever between the bus body and the ground, enclosing the area around your engine compartment.  But be sure to keep the cardboard, paper (or whatever) away from the light -- you DO NOT want it catching fire.


Title: Re: Any cold weather starting advice?
Post by: viento1 on November 13, 2011, 08:37:58 PM
I used a propane catalytic heater once. It worked but it was a battle with the wind until I sacrificed some carpet to keep the heat contained.


Title: Re: Any cold weather starting advice?
Post by: Busted Knuckle on November 13, 2011, 08:44:21 PM
As mentioned cardboard makes a good barrier. (cheap and easy to find)

We used to used tarps and rubber straps. But we were dealing with trucks not buses mostly. every now & then we'd deal with a bus.
;D  BK  ;D


Title: Re: Any cold weather starting advice?
Post by: opus on November 13, 2011, 08:53:33 PM
I used a salamander plenty of times.  :)


Title: Re: Any cold weather starting advice?
Post by: viento1 on November 13, 2011, 09:08:22 PM
Salamander? little fishies?


Title: Re: Any cold weather starting advice?
Post by: opus on November 13, 2011, 09:10:09 PM
Salamander? little fishies?

Ha...brilliant!
(https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS_taxZrZdEAZdZ64s0FV-kFINXyLo_NRdjZrlIz026xe4vHTR7)


Title: Re: Any cold weather starting advice?
Post by: viento1 on November 13, 2011, 11:58:42 PM
Just think,  some guys are using those sissy hydronic heaters. I like your style!


Title: Re: Any cold weather starting advice?
Post by: buswarrior on November 14, 2011, 06:02:31 AM
I watched a big brother to that one pictures, rated at 300 000 BTU, being used to get a piece of heavy equipment started that was sitting on a flatbed trailer, in Yellowknife one winter...

The equipment was headed to the diamond mine, and it was required that it be operational on arrival, in order to climb off the trailer at a loading dock.

The heater was mounted on a trailer with a big oil tank, with a small collection of tubing for directing the heated air flow. Then, the equipment was shrouded in the usual collection of tarps and whatnot. It was also rigged with a remote temp sensor that was put inside the tarping, in order to be sure that things weren't getting too toasty, and this whole thing required constant vigilance. Ambient temps would have been below -20 F degrees, so the only way to get things warmed up is with a lot of BTU's.

20 to 30 minutes later, it started, and once it was running smoothly, the truck was dispatched for the mine, equipment idling all the way, and then, no doubt, for the rest of the winter.

happy coaching!
buswarrior





Title: Re: Any cold weather starting advice?
Post by: Scott & Heather on November 14, 2011, 06:24:50 AM
http://youtu.be/-JpQivta6MQ (http://youtu.be/-JpQivta6MQ)
Our buses are cake compared to these beasts...


Title: Re: Any cold weather starting advice?
Post by: niles500 on November 14, 2011, 10:42:04 PM
Caribou Maine - 5000 gallon steel water tank - well head 8 feet below grade - torpedo heater set at 38 degrees - still spread the tank - FWIW