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Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: Buffalo SpaceShip on November 09, 2006, 03:16:09 PM



Title: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: Buffalo SpaceShip on November 09, 2006, 03:16:09 PM
I went out to adjust the brakes this afternoon for our trip home from Dallas to Denver on Sunday. To my dismay, the pax. rear drum looks like this (tp pic)... pushrod is also wet (bottom pic)...

Over-zealous lube job (before I bought it)? Some type of failure? Any ideas??

Thanks,
Brian



Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: FloridaCliff on November 09, 2006, 03:28:29 PM
Brian,

That looks like the goop came out of my air tanks the first couple of times I drained them.

Hard to tell from the photo's how it got there, unless it blew out from a unseen location.

Seal on the DD3 by the push rod????

Cliff


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: NCbob on November 09, 2006, 03:33:47 PM
Hate to disagree, Cliff...m'friend, but how in the world could 'goop' from the actuator get past the actuator rod, past the slack adjuster, through the "S' Cam shaft and into the brake drum?

I believe that overzealous applications of grease through any of the fittings, EG.  Brake anchor pins, "S" cam shafts might be the source of the problem.

Solution: IMHO

Remove the wheels, hubs and drums and clean that mess up.  It's certainly not safe.

FWIW

NCbob


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: buswarrior on November 09, 2006, 03:37:41 PM
And, you really should get a fresh brake lining.

Linings are porous and soak up lube.

And the brake won't do its friction job properly.

From the pics, I don't see enough splatter to suggest the lube came from the axle. You running grease or oil?  If grease, look carefully for evidence of axle seal failure that the pics aren't showing us.

crumbs, this is a pain, I feel for you!

happy coaching!
buswarrior


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: FloridaCliff on November 09, 2006, 03:45:54 PM
Bob,

No offense taken.  :-X

I was just offering OTHER possibilities since Brian had ALREADY mentioned the possible grease ovefill.  :P

Cliff



Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: Abajaba on November 09, 2006, 03:46:47 PM
It would appear to be more likely that an axle seal is bad here.  There appears to be too much gook and such on there to be from a couple of extra grease gun squirts.  I would postulate that the stuff is a combination of warn brake material and axle lube.

Would you please let us know what is being used for axle lube here?  Is it grease or oil?

The suggestion to fix the problem and change the brake linings is a good one.  If they are as badly contaminated as this one looks, it is not safe.

                                                Abajaba


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: TomC on November 09, 2006, 03:47:15 PM
Swipe some of that greasy stuff and smell it.  If it doesn't have much smell, it is grease.  If it has a burny, strong smell, it is axle oil.  I don't know of any drive axles that use grease in it.  Either someone squeezed in too much grease, or more likely you have a blown wheel seal.  It doesn't take much oil to make a big mess.  Whatever it is, you need to get it repaired and install new linings (would be best to have both sides done to keep things balanced)  Good Luck, TomC


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: NCbob on November 09, 2006, 03:50:36 PM
Right, Cliff, but now that I review the pic I can see why Ewan is taking a look at the axle seals too.  That's another probelm we have a tendancy to overlook on these old buses.  I replaced not only my rear shoes, actuators but the seals as well this year.  :'(

And for the milage I'll be putting on that old girl...she ought to be good for another 40 years. :D

And be ready for some serious brake shoe replacements prices...mine cost me $94.00 each (that's X 4)!  But then, I live in Podunk, USA, where items like these aren't readily available. :-\


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: gumpy on November 09, 2006, 03:54:20 PM
Looks like wheel seal failure to me. Oil mixed with brake dust and dirt.

Time for a brake job. That one isn't doing you much good.




Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: Busted Knuckle on November 09, 2006, 03:57:38 PM
Brian for now go to the parts store and pick up about 4 cans of Brake Parts cleaner and heavily soak everything in that hub EVERYWHERE you can spray it with the first 2 cans (might wanna get one of those cheap "painters masks" to use while doing this! TRUST ME!) and spray fast and soaking, then crawl out from under there and let soak awhile 30 mins. to an hour. Then put the mask back on and go back under and quickly respray the 3rd can and retreat again letting soak again! Then just before you are ready to hit the road use the last can to soak it again, give it 10 mins. and hit the road, this should have you pretty well cleaned and get ya home!
When ya get home pull the brake drum and inspect and let us know how things look from there! I'll bet you'll find things in good shape. Let us know! BK  ;D


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: LUKE at US COACH on November 09, 2006, 04:35:03 PM
Hi Brian & Folks;

Looking at your first photo, I do not see a bunch of grease/oil in an area other than the brake lining.  In a subsequent photos, it appears that the cam seal is weeping grease or oil.

Is this on just one wheel or one both???

I would agree with one previous message, that it would appear that the brake lining is grease or oil soaked, and in my shop it would have to be replaced.  Over the years I have seen too many folks try to save grease/oil soaked lining to no avail.  If a leak is caught just as it happens, perhaps the lining can be saved, however if this has been going on for a while, then it is best to cut the drum, replace the lining and know that you and your family are SAFE!!!

Whether you make your trip or not is your call, but the problem should be tended to eaither before or after your trip.

I Hope this HELPS!!!

Happy & SAFE!!! Bussin' to ALL.

LUKE at US COACH


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: Buffalo SpaceShip on November 09, 2006, 04:46:11 PM
I'd love to follow BK's advice, as long as it doesn't lead to some sort of failure on the road. I'm not exactly in a place to make major repairs or wait for parts to come in. I fruitlessly called around all day to try to find a set of front shocks... but settled to have a pair shipped home to arrive when I return next Monday. I'd love to do the same with the rear axle work... whatever it involves. But I don't want to put my family (or coach health) in harm's way.

I honestly don't know if my axles are grease or oil.  My manual' got left at home due to my haste and stupidity (it was on the LIST!)  :'(, so I'm really shooting blind here. And I've never done the sort of work to know exactly how things work back there, other than adjust the brakes.

I did just crawl under and check the rear tank for oil. There's not much escaping. Same on the wet and dry tank, but there has been an unusual amount of wet oil coming out of the moisture ejector valve since leaving St. Louis. I just put some alcohol in the can when leaving Iowa as the weather was turning cold. I would think that would help soak up the water, not create more.  I have been putting off a compressor replace or re-build until after this trip. Is there any way that it's compressor gook blow-by (as Cliff originally suggested)?? There's been a decent amount of gook that comes out of the compressor tube thingy (what the heck is that called) ever since I bought her.

I also noticed that the axle breather had some same gook on it, and the DD3 vent had some caked-on oily crud. I wiped a whole bunch of that crap off of the brake cam. And LUKE (The God of the Bus Parts world responds to my post!  :)), the issue is only on the pax. rear wheel... for now.

Ack, I'm freaking out here in the Big D!!

Brian B.


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: buswarrior on November 09, 2006, 05:05:56 PM
Hello Brian.

Never mind the compressor for now. It isn't that.
There isn't a source of lube in the DD3 or the other brake linkage components to further contribute to this, so forget them for now.

Here are your issues:

Brake performance
Bearing lubrication
Attracting unwanted attention from the authorities.

The last one only happens if it is visible from outside, or if you are leaving a trail to follow, or if you are acting strange and fooling around out where they can see you and get curious, if you know what I mean.

The first, you still have two good fronts and a good rear, ensure they are adjusted correctly.

The second, you need to be able to eye ball that mess and decide if the bearing cavity still has some lube left so the bearing will roll you home without a lube related failure.

Unfortunately, you are the only one that can decide whether you want to drive it home.

happy coaching!
buswarrior


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: Paso One on November 09, 2006, 05:39:42 PM
Hi Brian
First I would do what Tomc  said and smell it that should tell you what it is. Second I would do what Bryce said.  WAG that didn't happen on this trip and it's  Likly a axle seal that leaked on the shoes like that many miles ago.

I also noticed you have never complained about stopping power.

Sorry Luke  Your answer is correct and I wouldn't expect anything else But bryces suggestion will get you home .


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: Stan on November 09, 2006, 05:52:22 PM
I have a question for the GM experts. Does Brian's bus have grease packed rear axle bearings or do they lube from the differential?


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: Brian Diehl on November 09, 2006, 06:02:12 PM
Brian,
Having just gone through a rear axle seal failure this summer I would agree with all the posters stating axle seal failure.  I ended up driving about 800 miles with a slow but steady axle seal leak.  I just took it slow and stayed very safe.  You can get home IF you are slow and careful.  Of course, keep your eye on the rate of leakage out of the drum... which leads me to another question ... Is there any lube leaking out the bottom of the drum?  If not, your leak is VERY slow.  If there is a lot of lube then you should consider being extra careful and checking the leakage rate more often on the way home.

-Brian


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: larryh on November 09, 2006, 06:12:22 PM
Brian

This has been going on for awhile check the gear oil in rearend and drive it home it got you down there and will get you home again. BK suggestion was a good one it will help you get home and discard that lining when you get home DO NOT TRY TO SAVE IT your family is worth more than a c note.

LarryH


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: FloridaCliff on November 09, 2006, 06:15:55 PM
Brian,

If I were in your shoes, and you remember my fire deal :P

I would clean it off like BK suggested, take it for a short hop and shoot it with an infrared thermometer.

Dallas, TX  has got to have a HF or Sears if needed.  See whats going on temp wise.

After you clean it off it see if it leaks out heavy or maybe it has taken 2000 miles to get it to where it is now.

If no major temp issue or additional major leakage i would take her home and fix on your turf.

I would hit every rest area and do a quick temp check with the infraredand compare it to the good side,  until you feel comfortable with the results

Best of luck

Cliff


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: jaybe_2 on November 09, 2006, 06:26:03 PM
I think every one is on the money with the problem being your axle seal. The only thing I would add is replace the drum when you do the brake shoes, It will be near impossible to get all that grease out of the drum. You can clean it with brake clean and it will look clean but a castiron drum is porous and it will hold grease.


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: TomC on November 09, 2006, 07:37:01 PM
I don't believe there is such thing as a grease bearing rear end?  All full floating truck/bus type rear drive axles I've seen use the same lube oil in the differential.  So I'm staying with a wheel seal proble.  Brian-where are you?  Many Freightliner dealers handle the motor home and bus side also. I know we carry the big bus drums and linings.  Good Luck, TomC


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: roadrunnertex on November 09, 2006, 08:16:22 PM
The GMC coaches rear axle lubercant fill plug is lower than the axle tubes.
GMC Coach maintenance manual states that.
The inter and outer bearings on the rear hubs MUST be packed with with wheel bearing grease.
Don't try to run the coach unless you pack these wheel bearings with grease.
jlv


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: Buffalo SpaceShip on November 09, 2006, 08:34:41 PM
I can't answer Stan's question about the axles, etc., since I don't have my frickkin manuals. But I did pop open the diff tonight and it's very full of gear oil.
I also went ahead and soaked down the drum with brake fluid for round one of the cleaning.

So, dumb questions:

Is it the axles (the splines they remove when towing) that are lubed by said grease or is it the wheels... or are they one in the same??

If it's a seal, is the offending one behind the brake drum or behind the plate of bolts that are exposed on the outside of the hub?

Is it possible to replace anything w/o removing the tires? That seems to be my biggest obstacle... that, and finding the parts!

Speaking of... I had a tire guy out earlier today (thanks Coach-Net!) to put on my spare tire for the trip home (see an old thread about my front tire wear... it's been one of those trips, I tell 'ya). So I'm pretty well versed now in what the front end looks like, sans tire... but I've never had the rear tires off. I feel like such a Rube! I might just need to break down and get a big IR impact...

Arthur/ Runcutter is in a suburb of North Dallas (maybe 30 minutes from here), and kindly offered me a gander at his 4107 manuals earlier this week, so I think I'm going to go copy some info with my digital camera if I can arrange it with him. Otherwise, my wife is back home and can start scanning things for me.

You guys are so kind to chime in here. Keep ideas coming, if you have more... and I'll try to pay it forward someday!
Brian B.


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: gus on November 09, 2006, 09:00:36 PM
I agree with the other posts that say it is rear end lube.

No GMC heavy duty axles I know of are intentionally lubed from the differential-a bunch are by leaky seals!

Rear end lube that is really old will become more like tar than heavy oil.



Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: mikeH8H-649 on November 10, 2006, 04:10:20 AM
Yes gmc buses came with either grease packed or oil fed rear brgs,I have the grease packed bearings on my 4905,if you pull the axel there is a seal over the axel housing end that prevents gear oil from getting into the brg area,my guess is that that seal is leaking and allowing oil into the brg area and leaking through the inner seal as I have  found that the grease and oil seals are diff.If this is your problem and it were my bus I would follow Bk'S ADVICE AND CLEAN IT UP WELL AND KEEP A CLOSE EYE ON IT AND STOP AND CHECK IT OFTEN,but since all we can go by are the pics you need to make the decision as to wether it is safe enough to make the trip     Mike


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: Stan on November 10, 2006, 05:31:06 AM
Since nobody seems to be sure which type of axle bearings that Brian has, I can only make an educated guess like everyone else.

If his bus has the inner seal and it is leaking, I would be concerned that the leaking seal is caused by an axle bearing failing.

If it is a packed bearing, there would not be a lot of grease leak out and  it would only leak if the bearing was running hot and the outer seal was damaged.

I wouldn't drive the bus long distance at highway speeds until I knew the source of the oil/grease. If it is simply too much grease shot into a worn cam shaft bushing, drive carefully knowing that you have less than 100% braking.

As for the people who think my question was stupid, you haven't seen everything in this world.


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: larryh on November 10, 2006, 05:36:33 AM
Brian

This is not a job you want to try on a trip like yours. You can make it back home from what I see you have lube in rearend and getting plenty into bearing so head on home and check temo by placing hand on axle housing and feel for any excessive heat if you don't have a infa red temp meter with you very few do carry such with them.

When you get home you can do a seal replacement on bus and check the rest of brake linings also from looks of picture your linings are about used up anyway so a good time to update and be good for your lifetime unless you travel 300k a year so enjoy your trip and relax.

LarryH


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: Paso One on November 10, 2006, 05:43:54 AM
Morning Brian

Did you do the "SMELL" test yet as Tom suggested I don't know a mechanic yet that doesn't do that test first.

It would zero you in on the problem.   Very distinct smells


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: Buffalo SpaceShip on November 10, 2006, 06:26:59 AM
Hi Folks:

Yes, I smelled it. No burnt odor. It smells and feels almost exactly like chassis lube. I've never lubed this bus (yet), but hit the fifty-something zerks on my 4106 last year. Only difference is the color... this stuff is jet black. Maybe wheel bearing grease is a different color?? I've packed bearings before (on cars) with the red, hi-temp stuff. And most of it was concentraded on top of the drum, which seems kinda wierd. There's a distinct splash pattern around the inner tire, too.

My mom has a heavy equipment guy at her church that has a yard nearby. We're going to see if he can lat me come over there and borrow his impact and whatnot. I have the bottle jacks and cribbing, and darn near every other tool. Parts will be an issue, since most truck house look at you like you lost your mind when you give them a bus part #. And I don't even have the numbers, anyways. But maybe I can just re-pack and make it home before it all leaks out again.

I checked out Craig's gumpydog site. Having seen his pics really helps. Now, I have no idea how different his MCI is to my GMC, but maybe it's similar enough. Anyone done this kind of work on a GMC??

Thanks aplenty,
bb


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: gumpy on November 10, 2006, 06:53:46 AM
Brian,

I'm not familiar with the GMC, but if it's similar to the MCI, there's a good possibility when you get in there that you can get a number off the seal and take it to a truck parts supply house (freightliner, kenworth, etc) and they will be able to get the correct seal for you. You'll also need an axle gasket, if I recall correctly, but might be able to reuse the one that's on there or in a pinch, make a new one with some gasket material and a small ball pien hammer. You might find them at NAPA, also.

craig


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: buswarrior on November 10, 2006, 07:29:50 AM
Hello.

In all these good posts is a recurring theme that bears mentioning out in the clear:

After the brake performance issue, you need to be thinking about the wheel bearings.

A failing bearing will run hot. A bearing that is not lubricated will run hot.

That is why you want to keep track of the temp of that wheel end in comparison to the other side, and have an idea that there is still lube in there.

Now, it doesn't look like yours is that far along in lube loss, but you need to know what the end result of doing nothing can be so you are making good decisions and paying close attention.

A hot bearing grows with the heat, making it tighter, which makes more heat.... which leads to lots more heat, which at its worst can lead to the wheel seizing while driving or the end of the axle snapping off, wheel, tire, drum and all bouncing off somewhere.

When you hear about some truck having lost a wheel, it is often the whole wheel end that is gone due to a bearing issue, not the work of the tire installer.

So, if the end of the axle stays close to the same temp as the other side, no worries!!

An infra red temperature gun is a relatively inexpensive tool when compared to the info it gives you about potential failure of so many systems on the coach. bearings, tires, rads, HVAC trouble, thermostats, the list goes on....
Around $100 US, sometimes less on sale!

They really should be thought of as a new addition to standard equipment.

Brian, we're pulling for you!

happy coaching!
buswarrior


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: Buffalo SpaceShip on November 10, 2006, 07:48:04 AM
You folks here are an invaluable resource, I hope you know!

And we found another one this morning: My Mom was able to hook me up with an older gentleman at her church that has a large yard/ shop near here. He presently doesn't do the HD work, but runs a machine shop. But, he has a 1" impact and a lot of room. I'm taking the bus out there in a few hours and we're going to pull the duals off and see what's going on. The biggest downside is being away from the Internet (you folks) and my maint. manual. I will take the camera and maybe come back and fire off images here as need be.

If I can get the drum off (cross fingers), I can at least repack what's there, and maybe find a seal locally. I'm probably out of luck on new linings and special brake parts until I'm home... but I'll sure feel better knowing what I'm up against. My coach has stopped OK with it's present three drums. It appears that I've had this issue for many miles. But, I just can't let it continue on, rolling blindly home... with my precious kids onboard.

I also got a call from ChuckMC9, who lives here in Big D. I've been out of touch with him for several months, since he hasn't posted in awhile... but it made my day that he thought enough to call and give me some much-needed moral support. Thanks, Chuck!

It ain't always what 'ya know, but it's who 'ya know. And I'm so pleased to know all of you... and know that you are all trying to help me here. So thanks, as always... you guys rock!
Brian B.


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: Runcutter on November 10, 2006, 08:00:18 AM
Brian, I just got the board on to catch up.  I don't have a heavy schedule today, so I can bring the manuals to you - if you want.  I don't have a heavy schedule today, so I can come by.  Call me if you want to - nine seven two, four six six, four six one one.  I just got off the phone with JL Vickers - who also had a couple of suggestions.

Arthur Gaudet -- Carrollton


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: Stan on November 10, 2006, 08:29:42 AM
I am sure if you see a manual you will understand this better.

Pulling the brake drum only get you to the brakes. My opinion is that you can delay the brake work until you get home. If you want t get to the seals and bearings you do it by pulling the axle. Take the weight of the wheel with your axle jack and then take all the nuts of the axle bolts. Thump the end of the axle with a big hammer to get it loose. You may have cone washers on the axle studs that you have to remove. After you pull the axle out you can dis-assemble the seal and bearing setup.  If you have to get to the inner seal, it is gut busting work without the proper tools. To make it as light as possible, remove the wheels, the brake drum and then remove the hub.

I understand that you still don't know the source of the oil, but the quantities you are describing sound like a seal problem

You should be able to buy seals and bearings at any large bearing distributor. Look in the Yellow Pages for Bearings and or Drive line Components. If you are stuck for an axle gasket you can cut one out of a corn flakes box or just use a bead of silicon. HTH

I can't give your more help without knowing what kind of bearing setup you have. The GM gurus seem to indicate that both types were used  although opinions have been expressed that only one or the other were used.


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: NJT5047 on November 10, 2006, 10:56:11 AM
I'm late to this thread, but if you must pull the duals, throw some plywood or something under the wheels that will let you lever the wheels off and on.  Jack only enough to get the wheel fractionally off the ground.
If you jack the bus up, and find that the wheel doesn't have any play in the hub, and the diff is full of lube, you could very likely drive the bus back.  If you have play, you'll have to make repairs.
The drive axle bearings are  lubed by diff lube.  The fronts may be grease, or if there's a plug in the center of the cap, they'll probably have grease in them.  Either works on an RV fine. 
As has been suggested, keeping up with the temp of the hub/drive wheel bearings is important.   If the bearings have failed, heatbuildup from brake and bearings could cause a fire.  You pix doesn't look like you have much more than the beginning of a seal failure...nothing "dripping" off the brake drum. 
Be sure and follow the manual on getting lube into the axle hub bearings if you replace the seal and bearings.  Once the wheels off the hub, you may want to jack the bus up so that the diff lube doesn't run out of the axle housing....it may not. 
If you pull the wheels and brake drum, be prepared to catch some heavy parts!  You'll need some help with the drum.   And don't let the wheels fall onto you!  Heavy suckers!

Good luck, JR


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: mikeH8H-649 on November 10, 2006, 12:19:25 PM
To all concerned alot of gmc's came with grease packed rear axel bearings and there is a seal to keep the gear oil from getting into the bearings,this is not something I am guessing about I just did mine and it is a 79 h8h-649 and I bought the new seals ect from Luke since I could not find them anywhere else,I am not trying to be a smarta$$ here but if his bearings are grease packed and he is losing grease from the seal he would have problems quicker than with the oil fed brgs as the grease will not replenish itself as the oil ones will as long as there is gear oil and as he said his diff is full,so he needs to know what he has and then go from there  Mike


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: Stan on November 10, 2006, 05:24:54 PM
Mike8H8: Yiou must be as dumb as me (grin). The experts have told us numerous times that all drive axle bearings get their lubrication from the differential oil and you tell us that you just put grease packed bearingswith seals in your bus.  I was dumb enough to make the same mistake on a bus before I was told that I was wrong. I was really lucky to have the parts book with the seal numbers.


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: NJT5047 on November 10, 2006, 05:33:00 PM
VERY Interesting!  ???   That would explain the lack of wet gear lube?? 
Brian, did you get the bus cranked yet? 
The rear leak will be interesting...!
JR


Title: Rear axle lube is the proble.
Post by: frank-id on November 10, 2006, 08:05:12 PM
  My opinion is the rear axle housing vent is covered with lube grease and road dirt.  The rear housing has a large vent on the top of the housing.  Remove vent and clean.  Lots of brake clean will wash away all the lube , brake dust and rear dirt.  Before spraying loosen the slack adjuster as loose as possible.  After the big cleanup, check for cleanliness.  Simple green also removes heavy grease and oil.  After the cleanup readjust both slack adjusters.  My method of adjustment is to tighten adjuster snugly and loosen 3/4 turn.  Dragging brakes are not good and affect MPG economy.


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: Buffalo SpaceShip on November 10, 2006, 10:12:29 PM
Well, I spent a good chunk of the afternoon with the present electical issues. I finally went to Sam's to toss my 3-1/2 year old 8Ds for some fresh ones, but had to do some family stuff after that. We're crossing our fingers that it'll crank off tomorrow. Arthur/ Runcutter was kind enough to come by my folks' with his manuals for me to copy. He and I spent some time chatting about busses and conversions, and it was great to do so. I also spent some time on the phone with JL Vickers, a very kind a knowlegable busnut.

Via the manual, I confirmed that GMC' Buffs definitely have grease-packed bearings. Funny that Frank should mention the vent hole on top of the axle, because I spent some time having to clean off that area. The slack adjuster is also suspect, since most of the grease I found was sitting near it and on top of the rotor. I'd think a blown seal would leak out most of its goo downward. But maybe I'm just wishful thinking at this point.

I'm going to upload the pages from the manual for folks to peruse. I'll have to do it via my hosting service (links) so they're hi-rez enough to read. I do plan on cleaning the brakes as good as I can before heading out sometime this weekend. I'll also keep an eye on the axle temp by stopping every so often. I'm planning the longer Interstate Route... I-35 NB to I-70 WB. Takes me through OKC and Wichita, and numeroud KS towns. The typical Amarillo route could prove dicey if I have issues.

Be back in a flash...
bb


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: Buffalo SpaceShip on November 10, 2006, 10:52:07 PM
Here's what we got on Da Buffs rear axles...

http://www.thefamilybus.net/files/rearaxles.pdf

bb


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: John E. Smith on November 11, 2006, 06:44:24 PM
I just sent Buff an email...

As I told him, it is really a pretty simple job to replace an oil seal -- and with that much leakage, he really should check the bearings.  Personally, I wouldn't try to get home on it -- just from the reduced braking ability caused by the oil-saturated brake blocks. 

I think that the rear end would probably be ok, as long as he checked the lube level every couple of hundred miles and watched his rear end temp.  The problem is that any failure would happen on that wheel end, pretty far removed from the temp sending unit -- he could have serious damage by the time his temp guage went up enough to worry about.


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: Buffalo SpaceShip on November 11, 2006, 10:28:50 PM
I appreciate the thoughts, John. But let's take a look again at the pics (attached) and maybe you'll see why I'm leaning now towards an over-ambitious lubing of the slack adjuster's zerks:

The top photo shows the top of the wheel/ lining. Notice how the grease is built-up on the slack. Now, notice where the majority of the grease is... on the leading edge of the brake block and then travels upward. Exactly what would happen if grease is shooting out of the slack on every brake application as the wheel rotates forward. I also can see the rubber on the slack adjuster pivot point in the foregroud seems like it's still bulging with grease.

OTOH, the bottom pic shows just a thin film of grease. If the wheel seal had failed, I'd think that gravity would ooze the grease out of the bottom of the drum... and surely not deposit it way up and over on the slack adjuster.

I'm betting that someone filled up the slack... and then filled it up again with grease. It's probably been coming out for the last 6,000 miles. I had one hard service application when I had to "mash 'em" to stop for a quick yellow-to-red light back in March that may have started the oozing.

Also notice how dry the axle end area seems to be compared to the slack that's dark and moist on the bottom pic. On the top pic, there's a diagonal line of "soak stain" on the brake block going inboard to outboard... I'd think that a seal failure would show a mirror image of this.

Have I watched too many episodes of CSI??

bb


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: Busted Knuckle on November 12, 2006, 12:08:54 AM
Brian,
I'd like to agree with your conclusion, but the grease streaks slung outward all the way around the tire make me lean more in the bad wheel seal area from previous experiences that's what the tire usually looks like on a seal failure. Also if the grease is leaking onto the hub when you apply the brakes the leading edge is going to collect the majority of the grease! First thing I'd do is to clean it as I described before then take it for a spin and see if it starts to reappear! BK 


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: Buffalo SpaceShip on November 12, 2006, 05:59:39 AM
Bryce, I'm not trying to be contrary, but consider this... if I manually filled up the brake drum with grease (for some crazy reason) and then roll down the road at 495 revs. per mile (tire rpm), the centrifugal force of all of that grease is going to put the same streaks outward on the tire. The streaks just show us the direction of the grease leaving the drum from the force.

What we're debating about is the cause of the grease.

And wouldn't a wheel seal be oozing all of the time... not just when I apply brakes? Why would it collect way up and out there on the slack? And centrifugal force will fling the grease outward... not upward and inward. Fill up a paintbrush with water and start slinging it with a rope. Will you ever get wet?

Just some observations...
bb



Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: larryh on November 12, 2006, 06:00:22 AM
Brian

We have gave you our honest opinion of 43+ years of being a heavy equipt experience. I don't want to be a smart $%^ but you have a grease seal leaking and need to replace it and the lining.

LarryH


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: muddog16 on November 12, 2006, 06:26:58 AM
Brian, there are 4 grease fittings around the wheel, housing for the S-cam has one, slack adjuster is two, and where your brake shoes pivot on the housing allowing your brakes to rotate is 3 and 4, one each for top and bottom brake shoe. My WAG is the same as Luke's!  Good luck!   Pat


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: Buffalo SpaceShip on November 12, 2006, 06:41:40 AM
No, I appreciate that, Larry. I was just looking at the pics and what I observed and seeing if there was another explaination.

So, assuming it's a wheel seal, which # part do you guys think failed in the pic below?


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: Stan on November 12, 2006, 07:28:10 AM
Brian: Now that we know what kind of hub assembly you have I will try and help you further.

Consider the two possible sources of the grease/oil. It may be from an external source and if it is  my guess would be a worn S cam bushing having too much grease pumped into it. If it is from an internal source that takes a more detailed explanation.

Think of your hub assembly being like the front wheel and a damaged inner seal (#16 & #17) will leak grease out of the inner wheel bearing (#18)  into the brake drum. The reason the seal is leaking may just be old age or it might be a bad inner bearing causing excessive slack and or heat.

Now look at the location of the outside seal (#1 & #3). Even though  the oil level in the differential is below the axle tube, going around corners and parking on side hills will get differntial oil into the axle tube. The outer seal (note that it is called an oil seal) prevents this oil from getting into the grease packed bearing. If this seal is leaking from old age or bad bearing oil will go through the outer bearing (washing out the grease) and into the inside bearing. The inside seal is a grease seal (not an oil seal) and it will likely leak the mixture of differential oil and grease into the brake drum.
HTH


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: Runcutter on November 12, 2006, 07:36:56 AM
Slight disclaimer before I leave for the airport - that illustration is from my 4107 manual, when I went over to help on Friday.  Brian's coach is a 4108, and ten years newer - I'd suggest that someone who knows more than I confirm that the illustration applies to both vehicles. 

Gone for the rest of the day, Arthur Gaudet. 


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: Paso One on November 12, 2006, 08:19:32 AM
Hi Brian
Larryh says it pretty coarse but he is correct ( I believe)  I've only got 34 years but what I see is a axle seal leaking.  All the other pre rabble was basically trying to identify what type of fluid was leaking  Gear oil or grease.  Not wether it was leaking but what was leaking.

I go back to TOMC 's post  very early on in  the thread  smelling it identified what type of seal grease seal or axle lubed gear oil seal leaking.  Bryces soulution for getting cleaned up and home is what I would still suggest.

Then after you take it apart you can put us all in our place with the correct answer.  :)


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: roadrunnertex on November 12, 2006, 09:29:46 AM
PD4107 / P8M4108 Figure for rear hub and oil seals.
The photo is the same in the P8M4905A/P8M4108 GMC coach maintenance manual X-7564.
The number at the lower right corner TP-9142-1 is the same as the PD-4107 M/M.
jlv


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: Buffalo SpaceShip on November 12, 2006, 09:33:35 AM
That's a great explaination, Stan. Thanks much. I'm hoping once I do pull the axles that it will be apparent what is happening there with seals and such.

Seeing how I have a more pressing need to get the bus started, I'm focusing on that part now (new starter). At the very minimum, though, before hitting the road I will back off the slack and clean the drum as best I can, and re-adjust them all. I've been driving on three brakes for a long time, looks like... through downtown cities and country dales. The biggest concern with driving another 800 miles is the wheel bearing having reduced lube, if that's what has happened.

I'll certainly have the luxury of doing the job right once I get home vs. here... where I'm scrambling for parts and scratching my head w/o the manual. I really need to get back home and deal with the growing pile of things that awaits me there... the very least is getting back to work, and trying to sell a home to generate some income to pay for a bevy of bus repairs.

I sure don't want my haste to have a deleterious effect on my coach's health, however. Or leave us stranded someplace. I guess I've said that before...  :)

The most stunning news of all: With this current crop of bus-realted woes (front-end wear, rear brake gook, starter, oily air compressor, etc.), my wife is currently questioning whether bussing should be in our family's future.  :-[ Ack!

bb


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: Dallas on November 12, 2006, 02:32:49 PM
Brian,

Since you have one seal that has failed, you would probably well served to replace all of the seals.

The failure could have been due to heat, age, or a rough spot on the axle housing.

I would also consider replacing the ones on the other side while you are at it.

I've seen trailer axles catch fire coming down Snowqualmie because of leaking seals. And DOT has no patience whatsoever if they find you with a smoking axle, whether you are a private coach or a commercial vehicle.

good luck.

Dallas


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: gus on November 12, 2006, 08:01:39 PM
Brian,

More than one poster has suggested smelling the oil and it is a very good suggestion. That stuff smell awful. Chassis grease isn't even close.

A seal can fail withoug anything else failing.

I wouldn't replace all seals just because one failed. Just as an example, the others may have been all replaced recently and this one may be an original!!

Diff oil will wash out the wheel bearing grease, then the bearing will fail.

I have five antique GMC heavy trucks plus the 4104, none of them use diff oil for wheel bearing lube.


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: Buffalo SpaceShip on November 14, 2006, 10:36:17 PM
I finally got most of the electrical gremlins shot down and the bus is starting again. Whew!

Tonight I went out and cleaned the drum with another can of brake cleaner. Most of the surface grease is gone now, but more will probably appear on the road. An incident tonight made me certain that it's best to get going home... before I indeed kill myself here.

I was going to make a separate thread about yet another incident of my own stupidity... but will put it here instead. No need to make myself the poster boy here this week. I got trapped under the bus tonight. Yup. All of the dozen or so times I've typed, "don't crawl under the bus without blocking it up..." yadda, yadda. Nope, didn't do it. I pulled the bus off the ramps to adjust the brakes, chocked the wheels and left the parking brakes un-set so I could adjust the rears. It was really windy out, and the leveling valves started reacting, letting air out... the next thing I know, it's coming down on me. God! I didn't have time to get out from under the baggage bay without getting crushed, and even tried rearward toward the engine, but couldn't risk it... so I slithered into the "hole" between the diff and the rears.

I calmly called my mother on my cellphone... who was in the house probably 40 feet away. I walked her through setting the parking brake (pffft!) and had her turn on the master switch and fire up the DD. Boy, it was loud under there! The whole time she's like, "are you sure you're OK?!" "Fine, Mom. Just a little cozy in here." In no time the bus was coming back up and I crawled out to safety, shaking a bit.

Mom did great under pressure. I scraped my face a bit in the slithering, but no big deal. My psyche and thoughts of "what-if?" are something else altogether! Sometime in the daylight tomorrow I should test it out and see if it would indeed go all the way to where it would crush me under the bay. Sobering thought.

I even had steel quash blocks right above me in the bay I could have put beween the bumper and the axle. I could have jacked it up, or blocked it... nope, nope, nope. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

Yet another cautionary tale... I'm full of 'em this week
Brian "the not dead yet" Brown


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: gumpy on November 15, 2006, 04:50:45 AM
Well, I guess there's no sense in wasting board space in scolding you. Seems you probably have learned the lesson the hard way. Fortunately you were able to find a safe place.

But this isn't going to help your argument with the wife unit regarding your bussing future.  >:(

I don't understand why it came down, though. If there was air in the system, and the levelers were working, they should have keep it up, even if the wind was blowing it side to side. That's what they do! Keep it at a constant level above the axle. The only way it can come down is if it runs out of air.




Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: Paso One on November 15, 2006, 06:14:14 AM
WoW Brian  It's a good thing God is your apprentice  Can you imagine if it was a the day before when the bus wouldn't start.   Good thing you had your cell with you under the bus.  I'm sure your Kids could also pull off what your mom did but Good for her. Take care  ( and thats not just a greeting anymore.)  Paul


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: ChuckMC9 on November 15, 2006, 06:55:32 AM
DUUUDE!

Ya know on each of these posts there's a "Report to Moderator" link. Should we add a link for "Suicide Prevention Hotline?"

I've thought many times about the value of a cellphone out there but rarely have it on my person when I'm working. Maybe I should get one of those geeky holsters. Well, very grateful you are still a live and well busnut. I'd wait maaany months before telling the wife, especially with the already-shaky bus relationship! I'm not sure I would have even posted it. You're gonna catch some grief for this one!


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: Buffalo SpaceShip on November 15, 2006, 07:43:29 AM
I don't understand why it came down, though. If there was air in the system, and the levelers were working, they should have keep it up, even if the wind was blowing it side to side. That's what they do! Keep it at a constant level above the axle. The only way it can come down is if it runs out of air.

That's what I don't understand, either. I did hear some air escaping while I was under there... and that's probably why I spent too long under there. I was trying to determine where I heard the air, but my folks live a block from the Interstate and a few miles from the airport, and with the wind, it was impossible to find it from my ears alone.

It wasn't the tank nor the chambers, since I put my ear to each of those, but could be an inversion valve or the lines to it, which were too high over my head to get my ear to. It wasn't a whole bunch of air loss, certainly not enough to pop off the parking brake. But I sure don't lose air very fast when the brakes are set.  It takes several hours to get under 90psi... which points again to the inversion valve, I guess.

I'm trying to remember when the suspension begins airing up on a typical startup when it's sat for a long time... sometime around 85psi or so... so it must have dropped below that. But it took no time for the DD to air it back up so I could be free again.

In a typical setting, my bus stays up for well over a week... that's why I was indeed surprised when it began to come down.   :o  I guess I should figure this out today. At least release the brakes and check leakage... from above the bus!

Live (hopefully) and learn.
bb


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: Buffalo SpaceShip on November 15, 2006, 08:00:08 AM
I'd wait maaany months before telling the wife, especially with the already-shaky bus relationship! I'm not sure I would have even posted it. You're gonna catch some grief for this one! And I believe in full disclosure, especially here where we can all learn. I've long since lost whatever pride I was born with.

Chuck-ster! Oh, I should catch some grief for that... no doubt. No one was surprised as much as I was.

Sad truth is, that was Bus Life #2 (do I get nine??).  First one was used up when I didn't  have a cellphone, and was working alone out in the storage lot to resurrect Blue Velvet (previous 4106, for those that don't know). I was replacing the only working airbag on the front axle. When I released the fitting and she started come down, a jack slipped in the gravel and she was coming down fast!

That time, just like last night, I was happy to be relatively spry and skinny. Of course, a larger man would probably work smarter under a bus. Or never go under there in the first place.

The cellphone is now my number one piece of safety gear. A "spotter" would be even better. But very few of my friends enjoy this obsession I have with old, heavy machinery.

bb



Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: Len Silva on November 15, 2006, 08:39:32 AM
I'm sure we all have our horror stories.  In my case I had rigged up leveling valves on my 4104.  I knew I just had to get a little ways under it to remove the drain plug on the aux fuel tank....I'll just air it up, won't take but a minute.

I hooked up my compressor, set to about 90 psi and walked away for a few minutes.

POW!  blew the left front bag.

I'll never be sure if I would have gone under the bus without blocking it, but I was thinking about it.

Len


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: Busted Knuckle on November 15, 2006, 09:06:32 AM
That time, just like last night, I was happy to be relatively spry and skinny. Of course, a larger man would probably work smarter under a bus. Or never go under there in the first place.
bb

Brian now you know why I love my "pit" so much as us larger guys have trouble even getting under a bus, let alone move faasstt while under it! LOL although back when I were about 4 or 5 pants sizes smaller (and I didn't have a pit)I was under a 102A3 working on a bad brake chamber. What I didn't realize was that one of the hired hands (who was working on an $ income job) didn't realize I had the air hooked to the bus for a reason and took the air hose to use where he was working! I didn't get crushed , but there was some yell'n goin' on and they scrambled to get air hooked to the bus before leaving for lunch before I could get out from under the bus! I got even as I was the Boss and assigned who did what ! And that same bus needed a new valve on a full holding tank as the one on there was seized up, and well one good turn deserves another!  BK  ;D


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: FloridaCliff on November 15, 2006, 11:02:00 AM
Brian,

First of all, GLAD your OK.  :o

And Thanks for having the GUTS to share so that others may learn and live. 8)

Hopefully your on the downhill side of all this mess.

This has been one heck of a trip for you Pal. :P

Cliff


 


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: Buffalo SpaceShip on November 15, 2006, 11:31:54 AM
This has been one heck of a trip for you Pal. :P

Agreed! But, no fires in the bedroom! Yet...  :P

I think this last round of repairs will solidify whether I really want to be a busnut or not. Though presently cut, bruised, and scraped... not to mention nearly crushed... I'm still anxious to get on out there and work some more. So I guess that answers that question!!

We're due to head out late tonight for a few hours to Wichita Falls for a roadside overnight. We'd like to camp the following night in Palo Duro Canyon SP, but I'll have to see how the brake holds up. That 10% grade down into the canyon could be too dicey to risk it. My Jake provides very litle help when idling down those hairpin turns, and getting first gear to lockup is hit or miss (the tranny supposed won't, but I've done it before and it's sooo nice).

Should be home late Friday sometime, if all goes well. Let's hope it does, and is altogether uneventful.

I'm sure missing my wife after two weeks... and the kids their Momma. "What a long strange trip it's been..."
bb


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: roadrunnertex on November 15, 2006, 12:01:28 PM
Brian,I am glad to hear that you came out from under your bus with out any major injuries.
This is a lesson for all of us don't get under a air suspension coach unless it blocked and chocked.
If it fall's on you it's to late and the old bus will not even say sorry.
Keep us posted on your trip back home.Above all be safe and be very careful.
If you need advise feel free to ask.
jlv

 


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: buswarrior on November 17, 2006, 05:52:38 PM
Hello Brian.

Thank you for being good enough to share.

Most of us clam up about our screw ups...

And then no one learns anything the easy way!

Keep this all in perspective: You have an old bus that has not been maintained.

You are well on your way to catching up on things.

Once you are home, you want to keep right on going, doing the appropriate preventive maintenance and worn parts replacement with every system and get ahead of the failure curve.

You have way more merit badges than many of the rest of us now!!!!

Oh, and best you don't tell your wife anything except how you were able to overcome the problems.

Unless you want to be an instant "used-to-be-a-busnut"

happy coaching!
buswarrior


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: Buffalo SpaceShip on November 17, 2006, 09:10:59 PM
We made it home without incident, making the 900 miles in liesurely, short doses. We ended up going the northerly route, all Interstate through OK and KS. We revisited a great kids museum in Wichita that was even better this time around. Found a few parks, etc. New starter and batts spun her instantly to life, even after the two Walmart nightovers in the mid-30s.

I checked the ailing hub periodically, and felt no heat buildup. The last hour's drive through our environs north of Denver was the most stop and go, so when I pulled up in front of our house I felt all wheels and the oozing one was the only one not too-hot-to-touch... since its brake wasn't being used at all. I sure felt its absense a few times, and kept my distances waaayy long.

I haven't crawled back under there to see how much more gook grease came out (since I'm a little gun-shy lately  :D), but I'll get it blocked and look under there before I put her away for a few months. We usually get a warm spell in mid-January that I plan to dig into the bearings and axle. I also have a round of work to do on the front end (shocks, bearings, tires, etc.) before our travels start up again in earnest next Spring.

Thanks all,
bb


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: H3Jim on November 17, 2006, 09:22:19 PM
Congrats! I've been following your saga - you sure did have your share of troubles this trip.  Hope thats the last of them for a while.  I'm glad you made it back and all is well!


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: roadrunnertex on November 17, 2006, 09:32:41 PM
 ;D
Glad to hear that you got back home with out any more trouble.
Keep us informed on what ypu find with the greasy hub.
jlv


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: larryh on November 18, 2006, 04:41:50 AM
Brian

Now I feel vindicated on my assessment of your axle seal leak when You get ready tp pull wheels I can give you a big hint and description on how to remove as a unit so you don't have to pay for a tireman to remove for you. Happy holiday for you and your family.

LarryH


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: Stan on November 18, 2006, 04:49:24 AM
It is almost impossible to remove everything assembled without a wheel dolly. You will need to remove the wheels first and then the brake drum. With the drum off, you will be able to see the source of the grease. If it is not coming from inside the hub, it is not necessary to pull the axle and hub, but is adviseable on a bus that is new to you and you don't know when the bearings were last done.

If possible, get somebody with a strong back to help. These pieces are heavy.


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: Dreamscape on November 18, 2006, 04:56:24 AM
I have been following your posts...

Nice to hear you made it home safe and sound.  WHEW...

Good luck finding out what is going on, let us all know..

Paul

Dreamscape


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: roadrunnertex on November 18, 2006, 07:03:13 AM
 ;D
Removing the tires & whell assembly.
 I had made mention of this to Bryan when talking to him about the grease on the brake blocks and drum.
Some time back a fellow bus fan had made mention to use a pallet jack for a tire&wheel dolly.
I thought this is a good idea.
I located one on eBay for less than $50.00 and it will do the job just fine.
Also with 2 pallet jacks you can remove the engine and cradle out of a GMC Coach.
I saw a PD4106 owner do this a few years back.
One more item the size socket that you will need is a 3/4" or 1' drive 4" shell type socket used in removing the 2 axle nuts on the GMC Coaches.
I have seen them at NAPA stores and I think that OTC tool company makes them.
I use the name "Shell socket" because they are made with a very thin steel so the socket can get down inside the wheel hub.
Perhaps a bus fan that is a "tool" type person can add more to this type socket.
jlv


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: Paso One on November 18, 2006, 07:12:10 AM
Glad to hear you made it home safe and sound. I bet the kids loved the extended holiday :) Momma I bet was the least amused  but glad you were home. Cheers Paul


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: FloridaCliff on November 18, 2006, 08:11:06 AM
Brian,

Glad you and the Gang are home safe and sound.

Keep us posted on the fix.

Remember if the Wife says "is it all worth it", you can always say "At least I didn't catch it on Fire!"  ;D

Best Wishes from your friends is Sunny Florida. :P

Cliff


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: Dallas on November 18, 2006, 08:24:06 AM
Brian,
Ain't it a relief to finally see that driveway coming up?

Back when Cat and I were trucking across this great land of ours for a living, we had an older truck and had a few breakdowns.

After a while, once we had put a on a few miles after leaving the house, I would say something like, "not a bad trip so far"!, or, "It could be worse"!

It goes with out saying that that was the wrong thing to say.

Now, if we leave the house, even in the car and I start to say, "not a ba........", Cat comes unglued and threatens to put me out on the side of the road.

So if the wife ask, "is it all worth it?" just look at her,  lovingly squeeze her hand and smile knowingly!

Never, Ever answer that question!



Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: roadrunnertex on November 18, 2006, 08:31:21 AM
Previous post in regard to 4" OTC axle nut socket.
proper name and part number is
OTC Truck Wheel Bearing Locknut Socket-4" (6pt)
OTC number is OTC1914
JLV ;D


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: Stan on November 18, 2006, 10:36:56 AM
IIRC the 4501 axle had a lot of clearance and I just torched a hex out of a piece of plate and welded it onto a piece of pipe for an axle nut socket.  Buying those sockets every time you need a different size is expensiive for the few times that you need them.  It may be something that the parts stores have in their loaner bin.

Hubs that are lubed from the differential oil never need to be taken apart unless a seal is leaking. Packed bearing will probably last as many miles as most people put on a conversion.

Every time that I pulled a brake drum I replaced the slotted screws with socket head screws so that nobody would ever have to fight the slotted screws again.


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: buswarrior on November 21, 2006, 05:57:15 PM
Glad you made it, Brian!

Looking forward to the next report!

happy coaching!
buswarrior


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: John E. Smith on November 21, 2006, 08:13:49 PM
Sorry for my absence... been a little busy on an Entertainer coach that we have in!

As for the air incident... I am not going to say a word.  But the reason I will maintain my silence is that I did that myself on an MC-9 about a month ago!  Its amazing -- the one time we let down our "safety guard", that is when something happens!   :(

Glad you made it home safely   :).  You stated that, when you checked the hub temps at home, they were all hot to the touch except the leaky one.  Well, unless you backed that brake off completely, that just reinforces our assessment of a leaking wheel seal -- you will probably find that your greasy mess has re-appeared.  But, now that you are home, you can take your time and do the job at your leisure.

Just wish you would have stopped in... really would have liked to meet you.


Title: Re: Massive gook buildup on brake drum
Post by: MC7S50 on December 12, 2006, 09:31:11 AM
Hey Brian

What a time you had!  I feel for you.   

When you get into your wheel end to fix it, consider using these axle nuts as replacements for the stock ones.  Sooo much eaiser!

http://stemco.com/Portals/0/Products/ProTorq/ProTorq.pdf

John