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Title: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: Barney Five on March 27, 2013, 11:39:48 AM
I have this Greyhound conversion with the 8V71 engine and I have no clue what transmission except it's automatic. But my question is, how much oil should this behemoth take and how often does it need to be changed? The dipstick seems to be a jury-rigged affair but it looks like it's about an inch down after driving it from San Antonio to West Virginia, about 1400 miles. And it looks pretty black. I don't know whether the oil was changed before I drove it up here. An oil company up here is trying to get me to put in their brand of oil which has an ash value of 1%, whereas I do know the specs on it is .85%. Tejas recommends Chevron Delo 100 but I'm having a dilly of a time finding a source here. Nearest O'Reilly's is over 200 miles so I'm a little reluctant to drive after it. There's a place that will analyze the oil for $25 to see whether it needs changing. I'm new at this game so some experienced commentary would be very welcome. Thanks.


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: bevans6 on March 27, 2013, 11:54:48 AM
What actual model/brand of bus is it?  Greyhound ran lots of different kinds of buses.  8V-71 engine wants straight weight SAE 40 oil, CF-2 (now an obsolete rating but the containers still seem to have it on there) with ash content less than 1%.  An 8V-71 usually takes about 7 gallons, although you get different engines being installed over time, and my ex-military engine takes closer to 10 gallons.  The oil level should be 1" below the bottom of the block where the oil pan bolts on, so you can measure up your dipstick and mark it.  Running it a gallon low can stop some oil burning.

Brian


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: Barney Five on March 27, 2013, 01:28:56 PM
It's a GMC 4106. With the pan on and the dipstick at a slant it seems it would be hard to measure an inch down from the block, or am I missing something? Yes, someone suggested it would be "about 7 gallons," but that seems a little imprecise. Are these engines very particular about exact levels? I suppose I could run it and find out, but you're fooling with many bucks there and I hesitate to be that brash.


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: Barney Five on March 27, 2013, 01:32:21 PM
Make that a 1964 GMC 4106.


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: luvrbus on March 27, 2013, 01:42:46 PM
The oil stick should be 26 1/4 inches long from the top of the tube if that part is original if you need the high and low marks let me know I can get those for you put 6 gals and start then see where it is on the stick after about 30 minutes of shutdown


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: John316 on March 27, 2013, 01:46:59 PM
Barney,

Welcome aboard. Glad to have you.

Here are a few tips. A good introduction goes a long ways. Maybe even some pics of your bus. There are a lot of good folks on here and someone might even recognize your bus. Also, a pic or two of your engine might help.

The buses are usually tough old birds. If you experiment with your oil levels you shouldn't have any problems (within reason of course). Each setup is usually different, so it isn't real easy to say exactly how many quarts you need. Ours holds 10 gallons.

Cheers,

John

PS, I almost forgot, until our posts crossed. Clifford (luvrbus) is rock solid. If he says something you can go to the bank with it. Listen when he says something.


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: akroyaleagle on March 27, 2013, 02:00:56 PM
Barney,

In most of the old detroits, the oil will be black as soon as the engine is run once.

Use 40wt oil.

I would change it if it was mine just to know.  Measure what you took out, add that amount back.
If the level is the same, add one gallon.
If it's an inch low that's probably about a gallon if it also corresponds with the low mark.
All the 8V71s I have dealt with hold about 7 gallons. You will also verify the dip stick this way.

The distance you drove it is pretty good to only be a gallon low in a bus of that age.
Most will tell you that a gallon per thousand miles is normal. At that rate, every 7000 miles equals a oil change to some folks I know.
I don't think I can argue with that as long as the filter gets changed.

I change oil at 6000 miles. My DD books recommend at 10,000 miles.
My 8V92 doesn't get a gallon low in the 6000 miles. I run it 1/2 gallon low.
I also ran my old 8V71 1/2 gallon low. If I filled it, everytime I stopped it was 1/2 gallon low. Mine don't seem to like to be full.

Always change the filter with the oil.
Go to Detroit Dealer, get a sample kit and follow the instructions. Less than $20 including the analysis.
You will then have the known baseline. You will also be told in the report if there are indicators of impending problems.

Look in the phone book for oil suppliers in your area. Any of them can order oil for you. They will probably beat the auto parts places prices.
Or just tell us where you are and there may be a nut near that can help.

The trans is probably a Alison 740 or similiar. We can adress that in another post. If the bus moves when it is in gear, it's OK.

Hope this helps. Don't hesitate to ask any questions. There is immeasurable experience here.


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: RickB on March 27, 2013, 03:03:58 PM
Welcome to the addiction! Its almost a certainty that you have an Allison 730 transmission in your bus. The oil thing is daunting at first but keep in mind they designed these things to be driven 24/7 and they figured in alot of safeguards to protect the bus and passengers from drivers who tended to overlook routine maintenance. Hence the norm of 7 gallons of oil. Straight 40 wt rotella or delo or try fleet farm for their straight weight oil. Just make sure its specifically for Diesel engines and that its a detergent oil.

Rick


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: Barney Five on March 27, 2013, 04:19:15 PM
Thanks, guys. Lots of good advice! Well, first off, it's a GM, not a GMC like I said first.

luvrbus: Obviously it is not an original dipstick, cause it's 24" long and has "F" with two dots punched in it at 21-1/2" and "L" with two dots at 22-1/2". If you could check those measurements for me, that would be great!

John316: As for an intro, I just got on here and don't really know my way around the site yet. I saw something about an intro when I first got on but I don't remember how to get back there. I'll scare up some pics of the bus and try to find the right place to put them. I was also wondering where I should put a pic for the avatar on the forum. I looked and looked and couldn't see it anywhere. I know it's there somewhere, but each site is different and I just haven't located it yet.

akroyaleagle: Seeing as how this bus is sitting almost on the ground, I am wondering if there's an easy way to drain the oil rather than crawl under and pull the plug. I saw a drill-powered pump somewhere. Could I drop a tube in the fill pipe and suck the oil out with one of those? If so, how long a tube would I need? And if these things are as forgiving as it sounds, how low can it get when the chips are down, and not shell the engine?

BTW, Joe, I spent some of my growing-up years just up the road from you at Redfield. Every summer my church would have camp meeting at the fairgrounds there in Huron. Small world! But we are near Martinsburg, WV, now, in case someone near here can give me a source for the Delo 100 oil. Advance Auto Parts has Delo 400 but it's multigrade.

RickB: I wonder if any of the safeguards extended to the transmission? Some time after I got it I was driving home from a shop when the transmission light started blinking, and it wouldn't pull our steep driveway. Had to get our Grand Caravan out front to help it pull up onto flat ground. Discovered the transmission was TWO GALLONS low. Haven't had it out since I refilled it, but I'm wondering how much permanent damage, if any, that would do to it. It moves ok on flat ground if that is the criterion.

On another part of the bus, my air bags leak down rather quickly, some in a few hours and others in a few days. Can anyone preview what I'm likely to find under there that would leak that bad? I haven't been under it so I don't even know if it is metal or plastic tubing.

Again, guys, thanks for all the help, and if you think of anything I should have asked, I don't mind you answering it beforehand!

Bern


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: Dreamscape on March 27, 2013, 05:13:29 PM
Welcome Barney!

You are getting great advice, and this is the place to get it.

Sounds like you are in for an education, we all started right where you are, so don't feel bashful. You are asking the right questions and will get correct answers.

If you don't have a manual for your bus, get one. Also get manuals for you DD8V71. They come in handy and will give you good reading material during the winter months.

You will need to air your coach up and set blocks under the frame to provide safety. Then you can crawl under and do your work.

Have fun and be safe!


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: luvrbus on March 27, 2013, 05:35:54 PM
From the tip that goes into the pan the stick is 2-1/16 in to the low mark 3-1/2 in to, the full mark from the top 22-5/8 to full 24-3/8 to low it doesn't go into the block like a normal bus but the upper part of the slope housing I guess you could call it the upper pan,the lower pan is the only thing that is straight and normal on the GM's lol  


I have a factory stick and housing here that belongs to Mike (AKA) Red Ryder on this board I am sure he would give it 2 you or make a great deal contact him and I will ship it to you and you pay the freight

good luck


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: longjohn on March 27, 2013, 05:49:33 PM
Welcome to  the nuts world Barney!
 As everyone says you will get the best of help and info here , as john said when Mr Clifford  tells you something it is pretty much gospel.  as well as everyone else who offers ideas and help........


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: baker4106 on March 27, 2013, 06:28:00 PM
My 1961 4106 takes 7 gallon.


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: RickB on March 27, 2013, 07:42:49 PM
My thought on the transmission is the smell of the fluid will tell you alot about the condition of the transmission. If it smells burnt, sweet and strong that's a sign it got hot. Find a good shop somewhere close get the motor and transmission up to full temp (around 180) and have an experienced mechanic give the transmission dipstick a good smell test. If its bad you'll never need help diagnosing it again. You never forget that awful smell.

Rick


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: OneLapper on March 27, 2013, 07:55:25 PM
Great info Clifford!!

At one point I had three 8v71s on my garage floor, two were out of 4106's and the third a fishbowl.  All three had different length oil dip sticks and tubes!!!

Ditto on the 7 gallons in a 4106.  


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: Lin on March 27, 2013, 08:19:03 PM
Remember, when you check the oil, you are checking the level in the oil pan.  That is why a measurement like an inch below the top of the oil pan makes sense.  Therefore, if someone says there 8v71 takes 10 gallons to reach that level, it would mean that he has a bigger oil pan.  As you already noted, your dipstick is not original.  That will be one of many things that are not.  Most of the alterations are probably fine as long as you learn whatever it takes to maintain things the way it is.  You could avail yourself of the original dipstick offered, or you could use the one you have.  Either way, were it me, I would want to make sure it is calibrated right.  Measuring the path of the dipstick to the prescribed distance into the oil pan from the outside of the tube is adequate; it need not be perfectly precise for this.

As with others, my engine takes about 7 gallons.  I add 6, and top off as needed.  You could have your present oil analyzed to see if it is still good, but you may want to just change it to start clean knowing that you have the right oil in it.  Sometimes people think that they are doing wonderful maintenance, but are using the wrong products or doing something else that is not right.

The advice about smelling the transmission oil is pretty standard to see if the unit has been overheated.  If you have filled the transmission now, and it shifts right, most likely there has been no damage to it that you will ever notice.  Although we know that anything is destructible given the right circumstances, this equipment is really well built and heavy duty, so you can hope it to be a bit forgiving now and then.
.


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: qayqayt on March 28, 2013, 11:57:07 AM
I would change the fuel filters at the same time.  For $20 it's a good investment.  Our 8V71 has the sock/element type filters - Baldwin PF902 (secondary) & PF845 (primary).  Change one at a time.  Fill the filter with diesel, let it soak for a few minutes, top off the diesel again and re-install it.  Start the engine to make sure your prime is okay and then do the other filter.

Bryan
Vancouver BC


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: wg4t50 on March 28, 2013, 12:52:29 PM
Just for hohos, we service a 12V-71, oil change takes 94 gal, an ex AT&T unit
base cast pan about 3' high.
Dave M


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: Barney Five on March 28, 2013, 04:53:40 PM
Sounds like I came to the right place for answers!

Dreamscape: The more I learn the more I see I need to learn. Your thought about a manual sounds like good advice.

luvrbus: Thanks for the measurements. The one that's in there now is a long ways off if that's true, over an inch for the full line and nearly an inch and a half for the low. I'd like to grab that dipstick you have if Red Ryder isn't TOO proud of it. Right now I'm not sure how to get ahold of him.

RickB: Unfortunately I just dumped more fluid in without knowing to smell the old fluid. Still, I'll give it a sniff to see if there's any smell. You mentioned fleet farm earlier. I checked them out on Google and they don't seem to carry motor oil.

OneLapper: Just when I thought I knew all about dipsticks..... How much difference was there among the three?

Lin: I think I might just change it like you suggested (if I can find someone that will sell me some). Less than an hundred bucks is pretty cheap insurance. And yes, there's a lot that is not original. Plus there's some that is incomplete. The tach, temp gauge and fuel gauge are defunct at the moment. Plus the electric step was never hooked up. And some other diddly things. Apparently this guy had lots of backing, because what he did finish is well done, though.

qayqayt: Always! BTW, anyone know what kind of air filter this thing takes? Yeah, another reason to get a manual.

wg4t50: Good grief! What on earth does that 12v-71 drive? That's nearly two barrels of oil for a change!

Again, thanks for all the wisdom. No doubt I'll be back.

Bern


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: Red Rider on March 28, 2013, 05:36:15 PM
Hey Barney Five,

You are welcome to that dip stick. It was the original stick from my 4106 so it should be just what you need. If you reply to Clifford (Luvrbus) I'm sure he can get it to you.

The list is too long to name the folks who helped me when I first bought my 06. Now I'm really dangerous. There are many different opinions found on this board so you will have to pick and choose the many answers you will get and in the long run you will become a better informed Busnut.

Tailwinds,


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: Barney Five on March 28, 2013, 06:44:16 PM
To Red Rider: Thanks, Mike, I appreciate it. Yes, I've discovered there are minor differences of opinion, and the funny thing is, they may all be right under certain circumstances.

To luvrbus: There you have it. Let me know what it takes to ship the stick. Appreciate all the good advice you've given, as well. Likely won't be the last time you see me on here asking a lot of questions!

Bern


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: RJ on March 28, 2013, 08:18:22 PM
Bern -

Welcome to the madness!  The disease is incurable, but can be controlled!  It won't take you long to figure out who the cast of characters are that inhabit this little corner of the web, as well as the other major BBS, www.busnut.com (http://www.busnut.com).  There's also a gmc busnut group on Yahoo, if you wish to take a peek there, too.  (BNO, btw, has a HUGE archive filled with tons of info.)

What's the VIN on your 4106?  I'll look it up in my roster and let you know who originally bought it from GMC.

As others have said, the 8V71 in this coach takes seven gallons when you include a new filter.

Joe was correct when he said to look up oil or petroleum distributors in your area in order to find the straight 40wt.  My preference is Delo, but Shell Rotella, Citgo and others are out there and available - just not on WallyWorld's shelf.  (BTW, Chevron has a dealer locator on their website, if you choose to go that route.)  Oh, and since the EPA's been saving us from ourselves again, most of the oils on the market today all have 1% or less sulfated ash content.

Which automatic do you have, you ask??  Fairly simply to determine:  Open the transmission access door on the curb side.  If the bumper end of the transmission looks like a big bowl on its' side, you've got a V-730.  If it's flat with a "V" molded into it, then you've got a VS series.

Ideally, you should have the following books: the Maintenance Manual, the Mantenance Manual Supplement, a Parts Book, a Detroit Diesel 8V71 Maintenance Manual, a transmission manual (based on which model you've got), and an Operator's Manual.  A library in itself!!  Several of these are available on CD format from www.coachinfo.com (http://www.coachinfo.com), but they also pop up from time to time on eBay and/or Craigslist.  Oh, and memorize this phone number: 1-888-262-2434.  That's the toll-free line to Luke @ US Coach in NJ.  Luke's a strong supporter of this crazy hobby, and has probably forgotten more about GMC buses than all the combined knowledge on the various busnut bulletin boards.  Parts are reasonably priced, ships same day when you use plastic money for payment, 99.9% of the time you'll get the correct part the first time from him and/or Bill.  Support those who support us!

Somebody else mentioned your location, and that leads to my next suggestion.  In the menu bar above the BBS, clicking on "profile" will take you to a page where you can do a lot of what you've been asking about, simply by editing the various options in the LH menu box.  One I highly recommend is to add a signature line, similar to mine below, that includes at least your first name, your home/base city & state, and your make/model coach including the powertrain.  Once you've got that info in a signature line, we can better help you by referring you to parts & service resources somewhat in your neighborhood.  Might even be another busnut nearby, too!

Since you're learning about this BBS, see all the buttons right above the message box when writing a response?  Hold your mouse over each one and it will describe it's function.  Notice how I put your name in bold above?  Easy to do by clicking on the "B" button.  Just make sure than any additional commentary is added after the brackets around the formatting codes.

For pics of your coach, I'd suggest using Photobucket or a similar site to post them, with a link (in your sig line?) for access.  Less size restrictions that way.  The usual photography tips apply - good color saturation and sharp focus, among others. 

I've been a huge fan of the 4106 ever since they first hit the highway when I was a kid, feel free to send me a private message anytime if you think I can help.

FWIW & HTH. . .

 ;)


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: luvrbus on March 28, 2013, 08:36:38 PM
Check for a Exxon/Mobil  dealer in your area we all have our favorite brands mine is Mobil Delvec 1240 for the 2 strokes I'm not a huge fan of Delo 100 like most here know already 

PM me your address and I'll send the tube,stick and fitting next week then you should be original but you may have to remind me lol (the age thing) I forget 

good luck


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: Tony LEE on March 29, 2013, 10:16:14 AM
7 Gallons!!
That is on the inside of the engine.

How much is on the outside is anyone's guess.

Air leakdown? If it is anything like my MC8, yes, it does, and quite fast at that too. Got rid of a lot of the obvious leaks but the rest are just an accumulation of very small leaks that are a pain to find and a pain to fix.


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: Lin on March 29, 2013, 10:35:48 AM
By leaking down, are you referring to the airbags dropping, the general pressure through the system, or both? 


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: akroyaleagle on March 29, 2013, 12:29:41 PM
Barney,

I tend to think in terms of engines and transmissions that are installed like they are in my Eagle.
I completely missed that you have a GM.
The engine is tilted and sideways. You have received the correct info.
The trans is most likely a 730.

I've only been in South Dakota for 7 years.
I get my oil in Iroquis, SD. I could get it here in Huron also.

In my opinion, sucking the oil out is not a good option.
The engine should be warmed up so that the crud is suspended in the oil.
Drain it warm. It will flow better and also flush more of the crud.
An analysis would give you much peace of mind as to the condition of the engine. Same with the trans.

Alisons are great transmissions. They are pretty hard to damage.

I think it was Dave Galey that explained it best.
If you put it in gear and it moves, it's good.
If it doesn't move add fluid until it does.
If the fluid reaches the top of the filler tube and it still doesn't move, it needs work.

I tend to go along with that. However I do check mine from time to time. If you overfill it, you will find fluid all over the rear of the coach.
It will just blow it out of the breather.

Always be suspect of the dipsticks in used buses until you confirm they are correct.
For some reason, many of them have been repaired.
I have found several, including mine, that were not the correct length thus were incorrectly marked.
Mine was a GSA bus. You'd think it would be right!
When I first got mine, I was constantly adding fluid and had the film on the rear and the trailer.
After Bob Ware showed me how to determine the correct level, I found my dipstick mark was 4" too high!
If you want to know how to do that I'll post it.

You will have to get over getting oily if you want to learn to maintain your bus.
If it is high enough when aired up, block up under the frame with timbers and go to it. wear old clothes!
If it is still too low, you'll have to jack it up, then block it. Or find a pit.
NEVER get under a bus with air bags unless it is blocked up.


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: Barney Five on March 29, 2013, 02:47:17 PM
I'm learning more all the time. Exactly what I wanted!

RJ - Wish all diseases were this much fun! My VIN is PD41062192. I'll be interested in what you find out about it. Wow! What a tome! I really appreciate all the time you and the others have spent answering all my questions (so far). Checked out my transmission and found the big bowl. Man, what a batch of popcorn that thing would hold! I even found a tag on it that said Allison V-730-D. Not that I know much more than I did, but knowing what it is heads me in the right direction, at least.

Books! I reckon as much as I have tied up in this thing it makes sense to learn how to take care of it. And really, that's what brought me here in the first place.

Now I need to see if I can get a sig line set up. Is that where you put the little pic (avatar?) that goes over at the left of a post below the stars?

luvrbus - You have my attention, I am coming at this totally ignorant, or nearly so. Why do you prefer the Delvac over the Delo? Tejas Coach tells of getting 2300 miles per gallon of Delo 100 but when he switched to Delo 400 his consumption doubled. Ok, 400 wasn't meant for 2-stroke engines and admittedly, that was about 30 years ago, but the question in my mind is, how does the Delvac compare to the Delo, consumption-wise. And what other criteria should be on the table as well that might trump consumption rates?

Tony LEE - <grin> Yeah, I remember the first time I stopped for fuel I thought there was an awful lot of oil dripping off the engine, so I asked the seller about it. "Oh yeah," he said, "That's normal. They slobber."

Lin - I know any vehicle with air loses its pressure while sitting, but this thing sags off to the driver's side within 2-3 hours or less and then settles down flat after 2 or 3 days. Any time I stop for fuel I have to pump up the driver's side to sit level. From outside the bus I can hear air hissing right after I stop. I have assumed it's coming from the air bags but maybe it's not.

My wife's Pappy drove for Greyhound for several years, way back when. Ran from Charleston, WV, over Route 50 to DC. Those were his glory days. He could talk for hours about his adventures. That's one reason we got this one when we saw it, it was kind of nostalgic from her growing-up years.

Ok, guys, I'm off for the weekend. Let's pick up right here when we get back. Thanks again for all the help so far.

Bern


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: Barney Five on March 29, 2013, 03:18:36 PM
Had to try out my new sig line. But where did my avatar go??? Where and how do you upload your own pic? Obscure software is my nemesis. Maybe this is the time to add Photobucket to my bag of tricks. <sigh>


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: eagle19952 on March 29, 2013, 04:17:10 PM
Delo Chevron vs Delvac Mobil is kinda like the Hatfields and McCoys or vanilla vs choclate....I like Delo.

Here is where i would call to see who and where near me had my oil.

Delo 100
WOODFORD OIL CO
13th and Livingston St.
Elkins, WV
Phone: (304)636-2688
Delo 100
H.N. FUNKHOUSER & CO
2150 S. Loudoun St.
Winchester, VA
Phone: (540)662-9000


Mobil-Delvac
Tri County Petroleum Inc.
182 6-Mile Run Road
Riddlesburg
PA 16672
1-800-437-1802

Mobil-Delvac
Chesapeake Petroleum & Supply Company, Inc.
16821 Oakmont Ave.
Gaithersburg
MD 20877
301-948-3150





Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: luvrbus on March 29, 2013, 04:58:21 PM
Delvac was the oil the Detroit came with from the factory that is what the DD dealers sell for the Detroit line of oil for all their engines fwiw everyone has a choice I just like the Delvac 1240 had great luck with it over the years Delo not so good.

I guess Charlie still has the BS on his Tejas site lol


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: RJ on March 29, 2013, 08:11:52 PM
Bern -

PD4106-2192 came out of the factory new as fleet number 4702 to Eastern Greyhound Lines, HQ'd at the time in Cleveland, OH.  It was part of a 175-bus order delivered between December of 1963 and March of 1964.  Based on coach deliveries to others during the same time frame, I'm going to guess yours went to 'Hound in January of '64.  Have no clue where it went after they sold it, which was usually in the fall ten years after purchase ('74 in your case.)

Based on the above, you can honestly tell folk you have a "jen-u-wine retired Greyhound bus!"  There's also a possibility that Mama's Daddy may have driven this coach back when he worked for the Blue Pooch, since his run was part of the EGL service area.  Serendipity?

There are three leveling valves on the 4106: one on the front axle, and two on the rear.  The front controls the ride height only, the rears control not only ride height, but port/starboard listing.  By saying that the driver's side drops first, suspect that side's valve.  Fairly easy to replace - take it off (marking the air lines as to where they go) and throw on a new one, they're not worth trying to rebuild.  Can be had at most HD truck parts warehouses, Mohawk or Luke.  Common leak - have seen brand new coaches just delivered from the factory sitting cattywampus in the lot the morning after arrival.  Go figure. . .

Dunno where your avatar went either.  You upload an avatar pic from the "Forum Profile Information" link in LH menu off the Profile tab above.  I used the bottom of the three pic options for mine.

2300 miles on a gallon of oil in a two-stroke?  Yeah. . . right.  1000 - 1200 is more like it on an engine in good condition.  Always check the oil in the morning after sitting overnight, or at least 20 minutes at a minimum when at a fuel stop.  Takes awhile for it all to drain back down!

FWIW & HTH. . .

 ;)


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: eagle19952 on March 30, 2013, 02:23:20 PM
Clifford, I worked in the oilfields/construction industry in Alaska for 35 years.
During the last 10-15 of those I worked for a Chevron jobber.
ARCO BP and Phillips were our largest customers.

Mobil never was considered an option until they developed their synthetics (1974) and only marketed them in Alaska around 1998-2000,....as you probably know the oil companies love to spend money.
But the arctic is a tough place for oil, We never had engine oil related failures.We sold 1000's of gallons of Delo 400,100,and 0w/30 each month.
we took deliveries in 9000 gallon tankers.
ps. i am sure Mobil is good stuff, just not easy to find everywhere.


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: Barney Five on March 30, 2013, 06:17:43 PM
Sounds like the Hatfields and McCoys are getting a new start! Anyhow, thanks for the different viewpoints on oil.

akroyaleagle - Four inches overfull! No wonder it was all over everything. When I got here from San Antonio I did have a generous coating on both the bus and the toad. Like to never got the car cleaned up. Makes me think I'll be glad to get that original stick installed, because I think from what y'all are saying that I have about the same thing going on. Maybe more like an inch or two instead of four. I'm a shade-tree mechanic so oil doesn't scare me. I'm just new to a big moose like this, and I really appreciate all the good advice. I'd like to hear your method of checking for the correct level. Some of the other guys mentioned it already but I like many options.

eagle19952 - Thanks for the addresses. One of them is just about 25 miles down the road from us. That's bearable. I always wanted to go to Alaska but never got there.

luvrbus - Well, a body would think the manufacturer would know what works best in their engines. When you say not so good with Delo, what kind of problems did you have?

(And don't forget my dipstick!)

RJ - Thanks for the research, very interesting. But no chance Pappy drove this one--he quit in the late 40's. Interesting thought, though.

Whoever converted this rig apparently changed the air valves so it has a valve for each corner. I don't think it's the valves because I don't hear any air leaking inside the bus. But then, if it's leaking back through the lines it might not make noise. Hmm. Without looking I have thought it would have to be either 1] perforated air line, 2] loose or broken air line-to-bag connection or 3] perforated bag. I just haven't been able to crawl under it to look yet. Glad to know where to start looking for parts.

Avatar. I found the right page and got my sig line working, but when I browse to my pic, insert it there and click Change Profile, it comes back to the same page with nothing in the browse line. Did you do that or import yours from a web address? You said three pic options. I see "no picture," "artists" and "musicians." Is that the three you see? If I click on artists or musicians it puts their pictures up, not mine. I've tried all I know to try without going to Photobucket and I can't figure what they want. I wanted to stay onsite but maybe PB is the only choice.

Happy Easter Egg!

Bern


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: luvrbus on March 30, 2013, 06:50:42 PM
Where I have a problem with the Delo 100 in the 2 strokes it is fine till it gets 3 or 4 thousand miles on it then for what ever reasoning the 2 strokes will starting using more oil all I have been around won't use a gal in 2500 miles with clean Delo 100 then after 3 or 4 thousand miles oil consumption will increase to a gal every 1000 to 15 hundred miles
 
 Mike is a believer in Delo 100 even when I showed him all the sludge in his old engine and the temperature was good it wasn't running cold lol or he would not needed a new engine he went with Delo 100 for his new engine and Doyle went the opposite direction after seeing it he went with Rotella 

You buy a barrel of Delo 100 which I have bought several it states on the barrel after so many days you have to mix it because of separation not good IMO.

Chevron is good oil I am not bad mouthing all Chevron oil I use the Delo 400 LE 15/40 in my wife's motor home one reason it is always on sale here

 The Delo 100 I think we were sold a bill of goods Chevron spent a ton of money promoting Delo 100 for the 149 series Detroit  in the 60's and 70's that's my story and I am sticking by it

good luck on what ever oil you use


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: RJ on March 30, 2013, 08:55:48 PM
Whoever converted this rig apparently changed the air valves so it has a valve for each corner.

Sounds like a PO installed one of the campground leveling systems, eliminating the factory leveling valves.  Pros & cons to this, but livable.  What you need is a trailer bubble leveler (the one I have looks like a bulls eye target that I picked up for under five bucks at an RV supply).  Set it on the dash to your left and adjust the valves until the bubble centers when parked on a level surface, then you're good to go on the road.

HOWEVER:

Don't set the ride height too high, or your coach will ride like a bucking bronco.  Quick guide is the distance from the top of the bottom step to the ground should be 14.5" with the coach level.  Adjust all four valves accordingly to attain that height.

Avatar. I found the right page and got my sig line working, but when I browse to my pic, insert it there and click Change Profile, it comes back to the same page with nothing in the browse line. Did you do that or import yours from a web address? You said three pic options. I see "no picture," "artists" and "musicians." Is that the three you see? If I click on artists or musicians it puts their pictures up, not mine. I've tried all I know to try without going to Photobucket and I can't figure what they want. I wanted to stay onsite but maybe PB is the only choice.

When you go to the "Forum Profile Information" option under your profile, you should see three options once the page opens in the RH pane:

o  Personalized Picture

o  I have my own pic:

o  I will upload my own picture:

I used the bottom one of the three to upload mine, using the "browse" button to find in my photo files the one I wanted.  So try that and see if it works.

In the meantime, open a Photobucket account and upload lots of pics of your coach, then put the link in your sig line.  Will give us nuts more bus porn to drool over!

FWIW & HTH. . .

 ;)



Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: Barney Five on March 31, 2013, 02:58:19 PM
luvrbus - So Mike had sludge but you didn't after about the same mileage?  That is a very important point, and If you answer yes, it would be rather telling, IMHO. And would you venture a guess that the sludge started building after the initial 2500-mile honeymoon? That brings another question to mind. Say in ignorance I do use a lesser oil and build up some sludge. Is there a foolproof way to remove the sludge after it's deposited without clogging anything up?

Ok, so Mike went with Delo, Doyle chose Rotella and you use Delvac. Can I assume Rotella has less sludge than Delo but more than Delvac under similar conditions? I'm not trying to be nit-picky, I'm trying to get the overall picture in an unfamiliar field.

RJ - Eureka! Finally got my avatar to work. Very simple: I use Firefox most of the time but some sites are optimized for Internet Explorer and some features just don't work with Firefox. At a prompt I tried it with IE and it worked flawlessly. Now I'm back in Firefox and it's still there! So, with that out of the way I can think about Photobucket and other pics.

Happy Easter to all and to all a good night!

Bern


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: luvrbus on March 31, 2013, 03:29:14 PM
If any oil does it job and is changed at the recommend intervals there should be no sludge period even if on Mikes bus if the PO used different oil the Delo should have clean it out if it did the job. 

Doyle went back to Rotella that is what he always used and tried the 100 and his consumption went up but the oil may not the only reason we are rebuilding the blower it showed some signs of leakage   

This great oil debate has been going on for years here just pick the flavor you prefer and go with it I just like Mobil the best,

I have friends that use 15/40 in their 2 strokes never had any problems either but I never saw build up like in Mikes old engine nasty to say the least  

So pick you a oil that meets specs change it every 8 to 10,000 miles it should work no matter what brand when I rebuild a DD it will leave here with Delvac 1240 after that the owner can use what ever he or she chooses makes no differences to me


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: Red Rider on March 31, 2013, 05:16:28 PM
Just to add a little fuel to the fire ---- When I bought my coach, five years ago, I asked the PO what oil he was using and his reply was "anything that's cheap" so to see a sludge bucket that Clifford referred to it is understandable. I'm not sure but I believe the engine we took out was the original one.The hub odometer showed 440,000 miles but we have no information on what happened in between.

I use the Delo 100 because of the CF-2 rating, which conforms with the manual. Clifford and I have had this discussion on several occasions and he can show you the conformity on the label of Delo 100 and Delo 400. I stick with what the manufacturer recommends even though that recommendation was made 50 years go.


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: luvrbus on March 31, 2013, 05:25:02 PM
Without a doubt the original engine Mikey the upper head replacement looks to be the only replaced part on the engine I'll buy the 440,000 miles that thing is to wore out to have any less lol  

Original fiber drive and springs on the compressor drive,never A- timed,original blower drive, later C-60 injectors the old engine ran up and down the highways with 240 hp for years that is why it lasted I would say it was a true antique


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: akroyaleagle on March 31, 2013, 07:45:32 PM
Here's how it's done in a conventional bus of truck with the engine and tranny upright.

It may be different in the GM's with the tilted engine and 730.

The procedure for marking the dipstick would be the same in all.


When you drain it and are ready to refill it, there is a witness plug on the trans on the street side.
Refill it until it comes out that hole.
Put the plug back in and run it until it is warm.
Remove the plug again and have someone put fluid in until it starts to come out the hole the second time.
Put the plug back in.
That's the correct level.
Check the mark on the dipstick to ensure it is correct.
If it is, good, if not remark it.
Let the bus sit overnight, recheck the fluid with it cold, mark the stick again so you can check it in the morning before starting it.
After it sits several days, check it cold again. The torque converter will have drained. Mark the stick there.
You will then have 3 marks on the stick that will cover every condition.



Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: Barney Five on April 01, 2013, 10:56:08 AM
Where I have a problem with the Delo 100 in the 2 strokes it is fine till it gets 3 or 4 thousand miles on it then for what ever reasoning the 2 strokes will starting using more oil all I have been around won't use a gal in 2500 miles with clean Delo 100 then after 3 or 4 thousand miles oil consumption will increase to a gal every 1000 to 15 hundred miles

This great oil debate has been going on for years here just pick the flavor you prefer and go with it I just like Mobil the best,

To me, personal preference should be backed up by performance, and it sounds like the Delvac may have a little edge in that respect. How many miles does Delvac get after a change like you mentioned above on the Delo?

(Don't forget my dipstick!)

I use the Delo 100 because of the CF-2 rating, which conforms with the manual. Clifford and I have had this discussion on several occasions and he can show you the conformity on the label of Delo 100 and Delo 400. I stick with what the manufacturer recommends even though that recommendation was made 50 years go.

Someone on here said the CF rating is obsolete so not everyone puts it on their products anymore. So can you go by only those that still do?

akroyaleagle - Thanks for the idea. I haven't been under mine yet so I don't know if my 730 has the plug or not. That's exactly how we used to fill stick shifters, only without the overnight stuff.

Anyone know how to test the fuel gauge sender? The PO said he put in a new gauge but it still doesn't work. Makes me a little nervous even though I'm supposed to have around a 900-mile range.

Do these things have glow plugs? I told one onlooker I didn't think so and he was incredulous. Every diesel has to have glow plugs!


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: RJ on April 01, 2013, 05:31:55 PM
Do these things have glow plugs? I told one onlooker I didn't think so and he was incredulous. Every diesel has to have glow plugs!

Bern -

Nope, no glow plugs.  When these 2-strokes were originally designed in the 1930s, nobody knew what a glow plug was!

If the engine's in good condition, the compression's high enough that often they'll start w/in one - two turns of the crankshaft!

Look inside the fuel filler door.  On the top curve of the tank to the left of the filler neck, there may still be a sticker with the fuel tank capacity listed.  It may be buried under several layers of crud, so a little elbow grease may be needed to see it.  The 4106's came with two different tanks - standard was 140 gallons, optional was 165.  If the sticker's gone, you can measure the tank to figure out it's capacity.

As a safety precaution, and to avoid running out of fuel and having to reprime (a real PITA!!), figure all but 25 gallons of the tank is useable.  So you either have 115 or 140 gallons available, depending on which tank you coach has.  Deduct some for genset operation (if yours is diesel) and adjust accordingly.

Or, just to be doubly safe - fuel every 500 miles.  If you do, you'll probably never run out of fuel - a good thing!  Oh, and always park the coach at the end of your trip with a full tank - reduces condensation, which reduces water in the fuel, with reduces the chances of algae grown in the tank, which creates a yucky mess!

Are you having fun yet??

FWIW & HTH. . .

 ;)


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: luvrbus on April 01, 2013, 05:45:36 PM
Only the 53 series DD has glow plugs,the others did have a air heater for a option just a big spark plug looking like found on other engines but you never saw one on a DD engine in a bus


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: Barney Five on April 01, 2013, 06:19:43 PM
The PO told me this one is the 165 gal version but I'll look to see if the sticker is there. Musta been or how would he know? Nice to know these interesting little things.

He showed me where to give a little shot of ether into the air system and it usually starts pretty quick. Never tried to start without it so I don't know what it would do. Had a lot of trouble starting when we first got it even with ether. Finally found out the fuel line was so old and cracked up it was leaking air back to the tank and took forever to pump back up enough so it would run.

A local oil company sold me some fuel conditioner that is supposed to prevent algae. I dumped two bottles of it in the tank and ran it awhile to circulate it last fall, so hopefully it won't crawl out to meet me next time I fuel.

I do have a diesel genset, 12kw. Haven't gotten an accurate count on how much it uses per hour yet, but I did a quick and dirty one that it's about a gallon an hour. Does that sound reasonable for that size unit? I suppose it depends some on what you run off of it.

Fun? I started having fun when I climbed in the driver's seat the first time!!!

BTW, do these things normally have sun visors? This one doesn't. I had to buy a cap the first time I drove into the sun in order to see.


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: Barney Five on April 02, 2013, 08:29:11 AM
Very interesting. I just discovered online that Mobil Delvac 1240 has an API rating of CF-2/CF/SF. Hmmm. "Sign me up, Scotty!"  ;)


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: John316 on April 02, 2013, 09:27:50 AM
 ;D ;D ;D LOL, you guys. Soon I will ask about coolant (http://www.smileyhut.com/laughing/rofl.gif) (http://www.smileyhut.com)

As for me, I use 10-40, but I also happen to have a S60, whole different animal.

Have fun.

John


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: chessie4905 on April 02, 2013, 07:01:52 PM
I purchased a drum of oil from Tri-County petroleum a few years ago. At that time they said ExxonMobil changed the Delvac 1240 to XD-3 40. Supposed to be same oil, but the XD-3 was more recognized by users before merger. Could be also to differentiate the CF-2 oil from the traditional Delvac line. BTW, you supplied the drum and they filled it. They supplied new labels for the drum and msds.


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: Barney Five on April 03, 2013, 01:28:15 PM
I perceive that John found this thread amusing.  :P  Don't knock it, John, you were here once.

I contacted Tri-County, which is now Petro Choice, and they said 1240 is now 1640, or maybe it was 1540, not sure. Both Advance and Autozone have 1540. I tried to look up the XD-3 product data sheet and it crashed my browser so I don't know what it ways.

Yeah, no wonder John found it amusing. Wait a second. John, what was that about the coolant?


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: John316 on April 03, 2013, 01:33:59 PM
Barn,

This come up like clockwork about every few months, or so. I just get a chuckle out of it. Everybody has a type of oil that they love, live and die by. If it was me and a 2 stroke, I would go with what Clifford says... This issue hasn't come up for me before. We have a 4 stroke, 15w40 for us.

Coolant? Don't ask. There is an old BCM article on it, otherwise PM Clifford privately and ask him...LOL. There are enough colors out there to do a Christmas tree with.

John


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: Barney Five on April 05, 2013, 03:02:19 PM
Yea, I pretty much agree. Only thing is, I'm having a dilly of a time finding the stuff. A nice NAPA desk man took the time to find out the Mobil part number but it didn't come up in his system so he couldn't even order it for me. Step in the right direction, I guess. Same story at Advance. It comes up as a listing in their resources but they can't get it. In fact they're the ones that sent me over to NAPA.

And we get to start all over on coolants.........GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

Bern


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: Lin on April 05, 2013, 03:19:23 PM
Bern, I have been using Delo 100.  I tried to switch to the Mobile based on some recommendations, but I just could not get it here.  It appears that that is the case--that it is only available in some places.  Anyway, despite some strong preferences, it seems to me that people have been running the Delo 100 or Shell Rotella for many many miles without complaint.  So ultimately, any brand the meets the specs will probably be fine and will allow you to move on to the next worry.


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: luvrbus on April 05, 2013, 03:27:24 PM
Never been a problem for me we have a mom and pop auto supply here the guy can get Mobil,Shell Delo or any other brand overnight what I like about the Delvac it comes 5 gals to case sorry guys I had to throw that in


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: eagle19952 on April 05, 2013, 04:25:42 PM
Anyone with A D.D. 2 stroke can always use 12 gallons of oil per purchase  ::).
My last purchase was 15 gallons of Rotella....because the guy was willing to stay open an xtra 1/2 hour.


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: Barney Five on April 07, 2013, 11:21:06 AM
Bern, I have been using Delo 100.  I tried to switch to the Mobile based on some recommendations, but I just could not get it here.  It appears that that is the case--that it is only available in some places.  Anyway, despite some strong preferences, it seems to me that people have been running the Delo 100 or Shell Rotella for many many miles without complaint.  So ultimately, any brand the meets the specs will probably be fine and will allow you to move on to the next worry.

Yeah, it looks like I'm stuck with Rotella for the same reason. Advance has some Rotella T-1 40w that's API CF-2 so unless I can find something else fast it looks like that's where I'll be going. But it ain't like I didn't try.

Never been a problem for me we have a mom and pop auto supply here the guy can get Mobil,Shell Delo or any other brand overnight what I like about the Delvac it comes 5 gals to case sorry guys I had to throw that in

Methinks we have here the difference between a conviction and a preference!

Thanks, guys. I think we've about beat this horse to a pulp. I appreciate all the input, and you'll probably see me again when I run into another question.

Bern


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: luvrbus on April 07, 2013, 11:48:35 AM
Looking at some old service records I see Greyhound used Gulf Lube or Texaco Ursa at the Dallas service terminal they changed the oil every 5000 miles fwiw  back before all the hype about Delo 100 the Delo RPM Special 40 w was common for the old engines 


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: eagle19952 on April 07, 2013, 01:02:52 PM
I will say that when I was at the chevron jobber we recommended 200 and 250 hr change intervals....that was usually every 10 days or less during construction jobs running 24/7.

5000 miles at 60mph....that would be 83hrs...pretty good  for salesman....and real good for motors.

hi Clifford how ya doing ? did the fellow from Q get a water pump ?


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: luvrbus on April 07, 2013, 01:43:20 PM
Yea I friend that changes his every 5000 miles too he loves it when people ask how much oil do you use between changes his answer is none with a grin 

No Donald haven't heard from Larry yet about the water pump he may have lost my number


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: luvrbus on April 09, 2013, 02:31:20 PM
Bern, the dip stick is shipped to your PO Box

good luck


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: Barney Five on April 14, 2013, 07:50:24 AM
Got it! Many thanks to both. PM for details re shipping costs.


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: TedsBUSted on April 22, 2013, 08:05:41 PM
Haven't completely read all the replies, but if it wasn't covered yet, 5.5 gallons is spec for a stock  4106.
Total, filter can and all.


Title: Consider An Oil Analysis?
Post by: HB of CJ on April 23, 2013, 07:52:04 PM
It might be awhile before you change oil again and doing an oil analysis with the existing used oil in the pan MIGHT give you a good idea what kind of condition the engine may be in.  Be sure to warm up the oil first with a nice long drive, then following directions for a "clean catch" sampling of the used oil. 

You will only loose about one or two quarts doing this.  Might be money well spent.  Don't change the oil....it might still be $very good$.  You just want to sample it.  Good luck and welcome aboard.  Full speed ahead and all that stuff.  HB of CJ (old coot) now bus less but still a Bus Conversion person. :) :)


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: Ed Hackenbruch on April 24, 2013, 04:57:34 AM
If you replace your pan plug with a Fumoto valve you can get a sample or do an oil change without spilling a drop!


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: luvrbus on April 24, 2013, 05:49:05 AM
Buy the Cat sampling system and you don't even need a Fumoto and you can do it wearing tux Ed lol


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: Lin on April 24, 2013, 08:30:05 AM
Clifford, the Fumato valve is cheaper the a tux!


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: luvrbus on April 24, 2013, 09:10:10 AM
Yea but you crawl under the bus Lin fwiw Cat calls it a "Live Sample" figure that out does that mean the oil is dead or what


Title: Re: How much oil in an 8V71? (and other questions)
Post by: Barney Five on May 06, 2013, 01:43:36 PM
I got the analysis. The guy came to my house and with the bus warmed up and running, he stuck a tube down the dipstick hole and sucked up about a half-cup of oil. Filled out a form and I sent it off to the lab. Just got it back yesterday, and with the exception of saying the oil was a little thin, everything checked out ok. No filings, no glycol, only a trace of water. The only oddity was they said it had 15W40 in it. How they could tell at that stage I don't know. Anyhow, the guy that pulled it called me this morning and said he'd go ahead and run it a couple more trips, then change it (to straight 40) and get another analysis 5000 miles after that, which would give a better idea how the system was doing.

I am intrigued by your mention of the Cat system and the Fumoto valve. I tend to agree with luvrbus that crawling under the bus might better be avoided, but being able to change oil without oil all over the yard, the bus and ME might also be desireable. Can you change the oil with the Cat system or is that just for small samples? I suspect the "Live Sample" they mentioned might mean taking it with the bus running like this guy did. It keeps the particles of whatever is in there suspended so you get a true sampling.

Clifford, I checked out the dipstick you sent, and both the tube and the stick seem to be exactly like what came with it, EXCEPT that someone has cut about two inches off the end of the old one and moved the marks up just over an inch. That made it about a gallon overfull when I picked it up in San Antonio. And most of that gallon was on the back of the bus and the front of the car I towed back. So now I'm wondering why? I've read that some people like to run overfull for the cooling power, but it seems like a waste unless there is some other good reason.

I just spent a couple of days repairing some water pipes that burst over winter when my basement heater failed. Also checked out the propane system and discovered this thing was very much a work in progress that stalled out at some point. There were three loose ends in the propane line that I had to close off before I could use the cook stove! And three lights in the basement had wires just hanging, not connected. I have discovered that the best way to find out how a system works is to start repairs on it! One of the propane lines ended up under the bathroom lavatory, spewing gas out in the open air. Does anyone make a ventless propane heater that would fit in an enclosed space about 18 inches on a side?

Haven't completely read all the replies, but if it wasn't covered yet, 5.5 gallons is spec for a stock  4106.
Total, filter can and all.

Well, actually it has been covered, at length, but the prevailing *opinion* was 7 gallons, which makes me wonder where you found the specs in question. I would prefer 5.5 to 7 if it's true. That's a lot cheaper, but I'd be very interested in something on hard copy or at least somewhere in a specification table. Nice to know there is a possibility of less, so I can watch it on the stick before I get too much in there.

Same vehicle, different component: I mentioned the transmission went low and wouldn't pull our driveway. Well, I filled it and now the Transmission light on the dash stays on, flickering a little. This is after warming up good. Any clues? Could running low have ruined the sender?