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Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: Tikvah on September 13, 2013, 06:09:16 AM



Title: Coolant Loss - word to the wise
Post by: Tikvah on September 13, 2013, 06:09:16 AM
I should say, "A word to someone wiser than me"  :)

I left the maintenance garage this morning feeling good that all the fluids are fresh, topped off and I'm ready to get my new tires and hit the road with confidence.  Just before leaving the driveway, I'm realizing that as cold as it is this morning, I should turn the heat on.  I haven't had heat in the driver compartment since I bought the bus three years ago.  Since then, I removed all the bus heat system and left only the driver area heat.  So, I did what I knew was right, I went back and opened both gate valves to allow the coolant to flow to the front of the coach.

I know what you're thinking... Seriously, I had capped off the lines to the old heat unit.  But, to be safe, I decided to check for leaks.  After-all, it's been three years.  No leaks.  I go jump in the driver seat, turn on the heat and proudly slip into drive and away we go to the tire store.  I got about ten miles before the engine shut down on overheat.  Now, this is frustrating.  I've got a freshly serviced coach and the thing leaves me dead on the road.  (you know how hard it is to steer without the engine running?).

I soon realized that I didn't have any coolant showing in the site-glass.  Then it hit me.  When I opened the gate valves I dumped all the engine water and reserve into the huge copper lines and driver heater and didn't leave enough for the engine.  So, my word to those wiser than me... remember to check your coolant fluids after opening the gate valves. 

Fortunately for me, I was just around the corner from two different auto-parts stores.  So, I picked up a couple jugs, dumped in a total of 4 gallons of water/coolant and continued to the tire store.  Later today I guess I need to pick up a couple more jugs.  The four gallons didn't get it back into the site-glass.  So, I'm sure 4 more should do it. 

At least I'll be sitting  on some nice new rubber this time  :)

Dave


Title: Re: Coolant Loss - word to the wise
Post by: Scott Crosby on September 13, 2013, 06:33:07 AM
I installed an audible alarm buzzer and light combo for low coolant level warning before a temp change notification.   

Murphy gauge L150 I believe is the gauge hooked to a lighted buzzer from Cole H.

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/13/uqy8u2yq.jpg)


Title: Re: Coolant Loss - word to the wise
Post by: Tikvah on September 13, 2013, 06:42:31 AM
Quote
I installed an audible alarm buzzer and light combo for low coolant level warning before a temp change notification.   

Murphy gauge L150 I believe is the gauge hooked to a lighted buzzer from Cole H.

Scott, that's really a cool idea.  This is the second time I shut down from over-heat.  And both times I had been watching the gauge carefully, but it overheated faster than my eye.  Once the engine shut off, then the temperature climbed.  Your buzzer might be a great early warning device. 

I always fear damaging the engine.  Both times it wasn't an issue, it never got all that hot.  But, I don't want it be wrong... ever.

Let me know where you tied it.  How it's hooked up.

Dave


Title: Re: Coolant Loss - word to the wise
Post by: Scott Crosby on September 13, 2013, 10:08:01 AM
I went into the surge tank.  It's set pretty sensitive. About one gallon out of the system and it goes off.  That's still about 1/2 full on the surge tank.  At first I had it set a bit too sensitive and if I took a Corner too hard it would go off for a second, but it's adjustable.   If I lose a radiator hose or something I will know in about a second vs waiting for the temp to climb.  Early problem detection insurance.  I just drilled a hole, tapped it and soldered a brass fitting in. 


Title: Re: Coolant Loss - word to the wise
Post by: wg4t50 on September 13, 2013, 01:02:27 PM
Indeed, the Murphy  L150 level switch is great, having installed many on generator radiators, need to comment on the installation.
Use a 5/16 or 3/8 hose on the lower side, it is common, using a larger hose, when the thermostat opens, the water pump can pull so much water, it can sink the Murphy float.
Using a smaller hose has solved he issue for us.
Another experienced opinion.


Title: Re: Coolant Loss - word to the wise
Post by: John316 on September 13, 2013, 01:54:10 PM
Uh oh. Here is a can of worms, that I will pop the top on. What kind of coolant did you dump in?


Title: Re: Coolant Loss - word to the wise
Post by: Lin on September 13, 2013, 03:39:44 PM
I am a bit surprised that opening those valves would take up an estimated 8 gallons of coolant.


Title: Re: Coolant Loss - word to the wise
Post by: Dave5Cs on September 13, 2013, 04:21:30 PM
John ya beat me to it, LOL Truck stops have the correct coolant. Has to be low Silica.

Dave5Cs


Title: Re: Re: Coolant Loss - word to the wise
Post by: Tikvah on September 13, 2013, 04:21:35 PM
It did indeed take almost 8 gallons.
 I used green antifreeze (all purpose). The brand varied.

I'm aware that there is some discussion among the pureists about the brand or the shade of green, but.....really?  I just needed to get on the road, and I'm positively sure the last batch didn't come from Detroit Diesel either.

Let me know if my radiators are going to rot out or my engine fall through the frame from wrong antifreeze.

Dave



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Title: Re: Coolant Loss - word to the wise
Post by: Scott Crosby on September 13, 2013, 05:55:15 PM
The first time I opened mine it took 7 gallons away, but that was for the drivers heat and both big factory main cabin heater cores.  GM 4516


Title: Re: Coolant Loss - word to the wise
Post by: John316 on September 13, 2013, 06:05:11 PM
Guys, I am guessing he was low anyways (no offense, Dave, but I am already suspect of your mechanic). It just took 8 gallons to get him where he needed to go.

Dave, if you put the wrong coolant in there, it can basically corrode your engine. Eventually it can throw something it shouldn't, and you need a new engine. You gotta get the right stuff in there. The only thing to that might be (Clifford, and some of the others would know), there are some of the 2 strokes that it isn't a big deal on (wet sleeve vs dry sleeve?). I think most everybody agrees you gotta run "truck" coolant in there.

FWIW

John


Title: Re: Coolant Loss - word to the wise
Post by: Dave5Cs on September 13, 2013, 06:12:26 PM
Wow Purists!... I guess he doesn't want to hear about using only Distilled water either. Don't blame us Dave if Frogs start coming out your tailpipe, It can happen?!..... ;D :o ::) ;)

Dave5Cs


Title: Re: Coolant Loss - word to the wise
Post by: luvrbus on September 13, 2013, 06:17:09 PM
92 series are a little more sensitive than the 71 series but a good green heavy duty antifreeze like the Zerex or Alliance works good just stay away from the WalMart and AutoZone house brands

 Cavitation is not a big problem with the 92 series just keep the system balanced and R/O water has worked for me for years  ::) there is no need for the designer colored antifreeze and distilled water in the 92 series

good luck  


Title: Re: Coolant Loss - word to the wise
Post by: Lin on September 13, 2013, 06:25:06 PM
Okay, 'm sure that a real expert will come through at some point, but it is my understanding that coolant cavitation problems can happen in 4-strokes and 92 series engines; the 71's, not so much.  However, if one uses coolant that is not rated for diesel use, there are additives available like Napa Cool, that change the performance enough to make it safe.

When Don F. refilled my radiators, we used regular extended life coolant that we got at Walmart.  I do not remember the brand, but I'm sure we made a price based decision.  Yes, you really do want to use distilled or otherwise demineralized water.


Title: Re: Coolant Loss - word to the wise
Post by: luvrbus on September 13, 2013, 06:41:15 PM
Extended life antifreeze and the green are 2 different animals read the bottle on the Tech brand at Wal/Mart on the green stuff it says for light duty pickups the stuff is not much


Title: Re: Coolant Loss - word to the wise
Post by: John316 on September 13, 2013, 06:43:38 PM
Clifford,

Basically, we should always use heavy duty or "truck" antifreeze? Does that sound about right?

For us, we don't use that much with just our bus. We use the Detroit pink stuff, and distilled water ;D Since we aren't running a fleet, the price isn't an issue, and it is a little peace of mind.

John


Title: Re: Coolant Loss - word to the wise
Post by: luvrbus on September 13, 2013, 06:51:10 PM
You are doing right by the 60 series John with the pink stuff and distilled water


Title: Re: Coolant Loss - word to the wise
Post by: John316 on September 13, 2013, 07:04:23 PM
Good to hear, Clifford. We will keep on doing that.

Pink stuff, all the way. Just like my steak....LOL


Title: Re: Re: Coolant Loss - word to the wise
Post by: Seangie on September 13, 2013, 09:08:36 PM
Shell Rotella ELC. (And distilled water)

It ain't cheap.  ;)

Scott -  love the low coolant alarm.   Going to put that on my list.


 www.herdofturtles.org  (http://www.herdofturtles.org)
1984 Eagle Model 10S


Title: Re: Coolant Loss - word to the wise
Post by: niles500 on September 14, 2013, 12:55:23 AM
I'm thinking of flushing my system/triple flush and going with "power cool" (the purple stuff) - silver 8v92 DDEC2 - good or bad choice?


Title: Re: Coolant Loss - word to the wise
Post by: Lin on September 14, 2013, 11:35:33 AM
Clifford, I realize that not all green coolants are marked "Extended Life", but most of the regular brands are.  Generally, they are green in color and claim to mix with any other coolant.


Title: Re: Coolant Loss - word to the wise
Post by: luvrbus on September 14, 2013, 04:29:43 PM
Maybe so Lin I never saw it before in the heavy duty green stuff I know Zerex does not make it


Title: Re: Coolant Loss - word to the wise
Post by: Lin on September 14, 2013, 04:43:42 PM
Well, to be honest, I really can't say, as I did, that most are green.  I can only say the ones I've used are.  I just checked and currently have three bottles around.  They are Spectrum, Preston, and CARQUEST.  All say Extended Life and are green.  This thread has been helpful since it made me look at what I have.  Another bottle says "Conventional" on it and, as you mentioned, does say it is for cars and light trucks.  A bottle of Peak that I have says that it is "Long Life", which sounds a bit sneaky to me.


Title: Re: Coolant Loss - word to the wise
Post by: Tikvah on September 21, 2013, 08:41:13 AM
Not to belabor this subject....but I've been thinking about what I put in the system.
I bought four jugs.  Two of one brand, and when that wasn't enough, later in the day, I bought two more.  I've read the comments, but still confused.  Below is a picture of what I used...

(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/21/6uhejape.jpg)


Title: Re: Coolant Loss - word to the wise
Post by: Lin on September 21, 2013, 09:14:50 AM
I think the "extended life" is supposed to be a bit higher grade.  Notice the NAPA bottle says for cars and light trucks on the bottle.  I know NAPA has some that say "diesel ready" on the bottle too.  The issue as it was once explained to me, was that the vibration in diesel can create bubbles that can act as an abrasive around the cylinders.  If the 71 series has dry liners, than it would not be an issue.  There are additives available, even at NAPA, that prevent those bubbles from forming.

The disclaimer here is that this is merely something that I was told, so I really do not know.


Title: Re: Coolant Loss - word to the wise
Post by: luvrbus on September 21, 2013, 09:28:44 AM
Dave, if you read both jugs they tell you for automotive and light duty truck the Zerex,Fleetcharge and Alliance are about the only ones left making the heavy duty green color the price is getting so high one would be better off buying the DD brand pink at one time the green was 1/2 the price not any more.

I got a price for you today the Zerex green is 25 bucks a gal I could not believe it  

Just catch the Power Cool on sale at a DD dealer it always happens this time of the year and change over to the designer pink stuff you are going to be forced into it in a few years anyway just get it over with now it is good antifreeze I just never liked the distilled water part that went along with it,extended life antifreeze is just precharged so if you have a water filter be careful it requires a non-chemical filter

good luck


Title: Re: Coolant Loss - word to the wise
Post by: Lin on September 21, 2013, 09:36:29 AM
Another question-- If one is using one of these coolants that says "for cars and light trucks" on the bottle and is not having any cooling problems, what is the potential downside?


Title: Re: Coolant Loss - word to the wise
Post by: luvrbus on September 21, 2013, 09:51:29 AM
Lin, you need protection for the oil cooler those things are the pits to change and if the system is not in good shape they fail there is not that much metal in one to allow for corrosion,then the 92 series have a water cooled aftercooler inside the engine for the turbo it won't stand any type corrosion 

If I knew how to post I could show the results of using a cheap antifreeze does on a oil cooler transmission and engine coolers but here it is what is  ::)


Title: Re: Re: Coolant Loss - word to the wise
Post by: Tikvah on September 22, 2013, 03:48:30 AM
Does a couple gallons of the wrong stuff mixed with a system full of the right stuff matter?

What is the additive?  What do I ask for?

I can't wrap my mind around dumping my whole system to refill with the pink stuff.

Dave

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Title: Re: Coolant Loss - word to the wise
Post by: luvrbus on September 22, 2013, 08:15:13 AM
If both are green they mix the green and pink are not a good mix, just buy test strips at any NAPA and keep the system in balance the strips I buy tell you what chemicals are needed don't just start dumping chemicals in your system you may not need any I changed the green every 3 or 4 years so I never had a problem keeping the system in balance 

If you have a 92 series manual read section 13 there are 4 pages on the cooling system maintenance all the info is there and if you don't have a manual it would be a good investment to purchase one IMO those engine will serve you well if the maintenance if followed  

good luck


Title: Re: Coolant Loss - word to the wise
Post by: Scott & Heather on May 21, 2014, 04:35:25 PM
Thread revival, but don't make me start a new one. Cliff, Zerex? Where can I get this stuff? I'm low on coolant and need to top off...


Title: Re: Coolant Loss - word to the wise
Post by: luvrbus on May 21, 2014, 04:51:19 PM
Napa has it or can get it overnight fwiw Valvoline and Zerex are 1 in the same 

good luck


Title: Re: Coolant Loss - word to the wise
Post by: Scott & Heather on May 21, 2014, 07:39:18 PM
Perfect. Thanks!


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Title: Re: Coolant Loss - word to the wise
Post by: Oonrahnjay on May 21, 2014, 08:00:48 PM
  Thread revival,

   Naah, necroposting!  :)


Title: Re: Coolant Loss - word to the wise
Post by: Scott & Heather on May 27, 2014, 06:58:51 AM
   Naah, necroposting!  :)


haha. nice!  8)

Ok, so, had a short but great conversation with Sean this morning about Zerek, Shell Rotella ELC, etc. Our bus came with the green juice. So for now I'll stick with Zerex. Cliff, do I need to add another chemical to that?? Does it eat away at metal bits? Should I someday flush the system to the ELC?


Title: Re: Coolant Loss - word to the wise
Post by: Jim Eh. on May 27, 2014, 07:10:58 AM
FWIW:
http://www.cumminsfiltration.ca/html/en/products/cooling/coolant/supp_add.html (http://www.cumminsfiltration.ca/html/en/products/cooling/coolant/supp_add.html)

Some water filters are also pre-charged (if equipped). Not entirely a bad idea if your unit is prone to sitting for an extended length of time.


Title: Re: Coolant Loss - word to the wise
Post by: luvrbus on May 27, 2014, 07:22:26 AM
Don't add anything for a while buy some test strips and check it about every 3 months I always ran a SCA filter on my bus never had to add anything the Pre charge antifreeze uses a plain filter no chemicals.

Run the green forever it won't hurt the 92 series not enough contact with water on the liner to make any difference just don't buy the WalMart green the old 2 strokes were around 50 years before the designer color antifreeze and distilled water If you want a SCA filter I have a extra I can ship to for free you pay the shipping

good luck

 


Title: Re: Coolant Loss - word to the wise
Post by: saddleup on May 27, 2014, 11:18:17 AM
So Clifford is that sca filter a napa with a part #, only been tryin to get a part # on that for a couple years, as the napa # is on the backside and unreadable...



















3





Title: Re: Coolant Loss - word to the wise
Post by: luvrbus on May 27, 2014, 01:04:23 PM
 Matt it's a Napa 4070 or Wix 24070 those are sold by the years and the mileage for the chemicals to last fwiw so the one you remove may be a different number but don't sweat it the above numbers are good for 2+ years

good luck


Title: Re: Coolant Loss - word to the wise
Post by: biff on May 27, 2014, 04:50:58 PM
Hi all. I will not use ay coolant that contains diethylene glycol.(dex cool) or anything that says (extended life).look it up.It is bad.


Title: Re: Coolant Loss - word to the wise
Post by: Scott & Heather on May 29, 2014, 09:58:57 AM
No zerex green at napa. Cliff, I lost your phone number...


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Title: Re: Coolant Loss - word to the wise
Post by: Scott & Heather on May 29, 2014, 10:08:29 AM
This is what I ended up buying. A call into valvoline confirmed it has SCA's in it and it mixes with green just fine. Hope this was ok. (http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/05/30/2adygyre.jpg)


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Title: Re: Coolant Loss - word to the wise
Post by: Scott & Heather on May 30, 2014, 05:04:29 AM
Any word from anyone? The jugs are sitting waiting to be poured into my cooling system but I just wanted one word of encouragement before I actually did it. Valvoline says it's ok, cliff?


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Title: Re: Coolant Loss - word to the wise
Post by: chessie4905 on May 30, 2014, 05:17:46 AM
some info of interest:

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1096814-silicates-vs-coolant-filter.html (http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1096814-silicates-vs-coolant-filter.html)

http://www.advantageengineparts.com/pdfs/CavitationErosion.pdf (http://www.advantageengineparts.com/pdfs/CavitationErosion.pdf)

http://www.cumminsfiltration.com/html/en/products/cooling/coolant/supp_add.html (http://www.cumminsfiltration.com/html/en/products/cooling/coolant/supp_add.html)


Title: Re: Coolant Loss - word to the wise
Post by: TomC on May 30, 2014, 05:49:25 AM
Color really doesn't matter. Coolant is classified into two different catagories. One is the normal coolant (like the regular green stuff) that you have to check acidity with strips and add treatment as needed. Then there is extended life. You basically do nothing to this. If you add treatment to extended life, you just wasted all your money on that extended life coolant since the treatment cancels out the extended chemicals.
If you have a wet cylinder liner engine, like a 92 series or Series 60 and most other engines, the extended life is what I'd use. With the 71 series the regular coolant, with checking for acidity level is sufficient. Good Luck, TomC


Title: Re: Coolant Loss - word to the wise
Post by: luvrbus on May 30, 2014, 06:16:40 AM
I don't know who makes it for FreightLiner but their house brand Alliance green seems to be a good antifreeze easy to keep balanced. I used it for years with just the SCA filter and R/O water and never had to do anything like adding chemicals the filter kept it in check, no I don't use distilled water