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Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM on January 23, 2007, 06:48:44 PM



Title: 8V92 Oil
Post by: Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM on January 23, 2007, 06:48:44 PM
I just purchased an MC7C with an 8V92 engine and I am new to buses after owning a Fleetwood Discovery with a Cummins 5.9.  The first thing I did is I went to ABC in Garden Grove CA to purchase oil and filters.  They didnít seem to know much about this engine which I thought was a bit surprising as I thought they were quite common.  They didnít seem to know how much oil it takes and said it could be between 7 and 10 gallons.  They also didnít know which oil filter to use.  Another customer called Detroit Diesel while we were standing at the counter and asked them and I got a filter.

I also asked which oil they recommend and they gave me 76 T5X 15W-40.  I changed the oil and filters.  Since then I have read thru several older issues of Mikeís Bus Conversions magazines and have seen two references so far which say not to use multi viscosity oil in these engines.  Is ABC a reputable company and they know something the readers of Bus Conversions donít know or am I in the process of ruining my engine?  Why is multi viscosity oil not recommended for southern CA?

Thanks.

Gary


Title: Re: 8V92 Oil
Post by: niles500 on January 23, 2007, 06:55:37 PM
Only CF-2 rated 40 weight (30 in cold weather) with less than 1% sulphated ash


Title: Re: 8V92 Oil
Post by: Nick Badame Refrig/ACC on January 23, 2007, 07:09:53 PM
Welcome GARY!

Niles is correct. No multi grades, just straight weight.† †My 8V92 holds 37 quarts if that answers your question.

Good Luck
Nick-


Title: Re: 8V92 Oil
Post by: Brian Diehl on January 23, 2007, 07:20:39 PM
Whatever you do, DUMP that multi-weight oil IMMEDIATELY.  Someone more knowledgeable than me has posted on here the single weight oil is the only oil that will prevent fast and untimely wear of critical internal parts...


Title: Re: 8V92 Oil
Post by: Busted Knuckle on January 23, 2007, 07:22:12 PM
Hello Gary,
First off welcome to the BEST source of information available about bus conversions! Now about ABC they are a repitable company, but keep in mind their main line of buses is VanHool and most off those are Cummins equipped! †So not surprisingly most of their help probably knows less about a 2 stroke Detroit (any Detroit designed prior the the 50-60 series engines, not limited too but most common among us are the 6-71, 6V71, 8V71, 6V92, & 8V92 there are others but these are the ones you'll hear mostly about here) than you do. Now always use a straight 40W oil with the lowest possible ash content as pointed out by Niles! †For an excellant reading on 2 strokes and oil go to
www.tejascoach.com/tejasoil.html (http://www.tejascoach.com/tejasoil.html)
(cut & paste as I don't know how to make it a link or short cut! LOL!) It's hard to find anyone in the BIG shops these days who know about our beloved 2 strokes! †FWIW.
BK †;D

[i]I fixed it for you BK so that you just have to click on it. No cut and paste required.
Richard[/i]


Title: Re: 8V92 Oil
Post by: gus on January 23, 2007, 07:23:40 PM
Most younger people know very little about DD two stroke engines and the old GM manual trans.

The engines use CF-2 oil which I found in Home Depot of all places. It is Rotella T-40 as I remember. Look on the label. If it says CF-2 ok. If it says CF-4, not ok. Multi viscosity is not recommended for DD 2-stroke under any conditions or anywhere.

The 4 speed trans use 50W mineral oil. I use aircraft 50W engine break in oil in my trans which has no additives and is called for in the manual.

I realize you probably have an AT, but just in case.


Title: Re: 8V92 Oil
Post by: Brian Diehl on January 23, 2007, 07:25:49 PM
Most younger people know very little about DD two stroke engines and the old GM manual trans.

I was talking to an instructor at our local votech school and they were forced to quit teaching 2 stroke diesel mechanics 4 years ago!


Title: Re: 8V92 Oil
Post by: Busted Knuckle on January 23, 2007, 07:30:17 PM
Oh yeah I forgot about the how much does it hold rule? You'll have to change it and keep watching it as you add until you hit the Magic mark on your dipstick! I've seen 2 iof the same yr, model, & engine buses hold different amounts!!! WHY? Different oil pans, different oil cooler set ups, and etc. So it's best to check it out the first time and jot it down somewhere for future use. (I usually write it on the inside of the engine compartment door with a permant marker so it's always visable to "whoever changes the oil" just incase it's not me!
BK †;D


Title: Re: 8V92 Oil
Post by: Dreamscape on January 23, 2007, 07:41:43 PM
Another point that I learned on this board.

FYI

After installing new oil, of the proper amount for your engine, wait at least one hour in order to get a correct reading on your dipstick. That way it gives it time for the oil to get to the pan.
When I first bought my bus I did not know that. I stopped to fuel up, checked the oil and found it one gallon low, I added one gallon of oil. Later on I was cruising along and noticed the oil pressure was real low, I thought I must have a leak. Not at all, it was over the full mark by a lot. Not good. I do not understand why this is so, but I know it is not good. So I am very picky during the dipstick check!
If my assumptions are not correct, please let me know.

I hope this is not considered a highjacking. :o

Happy Trails,

Paul

Dreamscape


Title: Re: 8V92 Oil
Post by: pvcces on January 23, 2007, 09:26:18 PM
Gary, I did some digging around on this subject and here is what I found out.

One way the oil makers cause oil to have a multiviscosity behavior is to make the oil molecules ovoid in shape, so they slide over each other easier when cold. Straight weight oil molecules are round, by comparison.

To see where this plays a role, consider the port area, where the intake air enters the cylinders. The rings have to pass over these ports, and even though it is very slight, the rings expand where they are unsupported. This means that oil film protection can fail to keep metal parts far enough apart as the rings reach the end of the ports.

With the round molecules, the minimum oil film thickness is enough to keep the rings from hitting the edge of the ports; just as important, the round molecules are a lot harder to shear than the ovoid ones. The oil in these engines seems to pick up soot faster than four stroke engines, as well. In addition, if there is any tiny abrasive in the oil, it's much easier for it to get caught between rings and liner and cause wear.

Many years ago, 30 weight was the recommended oil, but it's always 40 weight, now, at normal temperatures. I'm sure that the oil molecule is larger, too.

Four stroke engines have smooth liner bores with no openings that the rings have to pass over, so their problems are entirely different. So, the formulation is different.

Good luck with your new coach.

Tom Caffrey


Title: Re: 8V92 Oil - Thanks for the Extremely Valuable Info
Post by: Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM on January 24, 2007, 07:33:33 AM
WOW!  I can't believe the number of responses I received in less than 12 hours.  I will take your advice and dump the multi-viscosity oil.  So far, I have only run the engine for 15 minutes about 3 times since putting it in.  Now for the next question, should I go back to ABC with printouts of this thread and ask for a refund, or just take my business elsewhere as they obviously no nothing about Detroit Diesel engines?  >:(


Title: Re: 8V92 Oil
Post by: edvanland on January 24, 2007, 08:28:10 AM
Hatt:
I don't think ABC will refund your money on used oil, even though they said it is the right oil.  Be glad you found this board and all the knowledge that is here.  For what this board has saved you the money you lost on the wrong oil is cheap.  I also found out about the correct oil to use in my 8V92 MCI 7 from this board.
ED
MCI 7


Title: Re: 8V92 Oil
Post by: Lee Bradley on January 24, 2007, 10:27:16 AM
TYPICAL APPLICATIONS
Mixed fleets combining large over-the-road diesel
trucks with smaller diesel and gasoline-fueled light
trucks and passenger cars.
Off-highway equipment used for construction,
earth moving, mining, or quarry operations -- in
engines, transmissions, and hydraulic systems.
Light trucks and passenger cars with diesel or
gasoline engines.
Farm equipment with diesel or gasoline engines.
Automatic and powershift transmissions specifying
an Allison C-4 type fluid.
Issued by
76 Lubricants Company
3525 Hyland Avenue
Costa Mesa, CA 92626
UNIVERSAL FLEET ENGINE OIL

I would save it for my car or pickup.


Title: Re: 8V92 Oil
Post by: DrivingMissLazy on January 24, 2007, 10:34:11 AM
I run the wrong oil in my 8V92 for several months and several thousand miles before I discovered that it was supposed to be straight 40W. (that was before the days of the INTERNET and bus boards). I do not believe it did any damage to the engine, since I put well over 100,000 miles on it later, but it did significantly reduce the oil consumption when I changed to straight 40.
Richard

Hatt:
I don't think ABC will refund your money on used oil, even though they said it is the right oil.† Be glad you found this board and all the knowledge that is here.† For what this board has saved you the money you lost on the wrong oil is cheap.† I also found out about the correct oil to use in my 8V92 MCI 7 from this board.
ED
MCI 7


Title: Re: 8V92 Oil
Post by: RJ on January 24, 2007, 10:53:35 AM
Hyatt -

Here's my suggestion:

First, print out this link.  It's Detroit Diesel's official publication regarding lubricating oils for their engines.  Read it thoroughly, you'll see in Section 2.2 where they talk about the lubricant requirements for the two-stroke series, which is what you've got.

Now, armed with this info direct from the horses' mouth, make an appointment to see the service manager at ABC.  Tell him that you believe a mistake has been made, and you'd like to talk to him about it in person.  Be polite and professional, but don't get into a discussion of the problem on the phone.  Just make the appointment.

When you go in to see him, take your receipt for the oil change (make sure you highlight the oil they used), and your copy of the Detroit publication you printed out.  Point out to him what Detroit requires in your engine, and what ABC failed to use when they did the oil change, based on what your receipt indicates.  Ask him to rectify the situation, and see what his response is.  If you're polite and professional, chances are very good that he'll correct the situation by having you bring your coach back in, and they'll replace the multi-weight with the correct 40wt, at no cost to you.

ABC is a reputable company, but it's pretty obvious that somebody screwed up, and they should stand behind their mistake and correct it.
 
If not, then ask to see the General Manager, and repeat the process.  Be sure to let him know that you'll start spreading the word via the Internet that ABC doesn't take care of their customers when they make a mistake.  Don't mention the Internet with the Service Manager, just the GM.

IF the GM won't work with you, a quick phone call to ABC's headquarters will do wonders. . . Clancy Cornell has worked long and hard to build ABC's reputation as a good company to work with, so you will  get their attention.

FWIW & HTH. . .

 ;)

 
OOPS!!  Forgot the link.  Here it is:

http://www.detroitdiesel.com/support/on-highway/manuals/Lubricants_Fuels_Coolants/7se270.pdf


PS:  Keep a copy of this publication in your bus, along with your other shop manuals, for future reference.



Title: Re: 8V92 Oil
Post by: Nick Badame Refrig/ACC on January 24, 2007, 10:59:11 AM
Hi Gary,

Here is a cupon for 50% off oil change, lube, & oil & Fuel Filters from MCI.

It's good until Jan 31st  Just print it out and bring it with you!

Nick-


Title: Re: 8V92 Oil
Post by: Busted Knuckle on January 24, 2007, 04:16:04 PM
Hey Russ,
Excellent advice!!! But I think that he only bought the oil & filters from ABC (if I read it right) and then took it from there an changed it himself ! I could be wrong ! But because I once thought I was wrong, and then found out I was mistaken! I doubt it!  LOL!  ;D  BK    ;D


Title: Re: 8V92 Oil
Post by: Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM on January 24, 2007, 05:10:16 PM
Yes, you are right.  I changed the oil myself.  But I used the oil the Parts guys at ABC recommended.

An update:  I called the General Manager at AMC in Garden Grove and we had a very nice conversation.  I explained my situation and he said he would call me right back.  Thinking I was getting blown off, he called back 5 minutes later and said he talked to his Service Manager and said they use multi-weight (the same oil they sold me) in all of their busses and they run several with DDís in them with no problems.  He said I can call DD myself and ask them if I want another opinion.  He gave me their local number and I called (I really donít want to spend another $100 if it isnít necessary) and spoke with the parts guy and he said they always use 40W oil in their 8V92ís but doesnít know why and doesnít know what harm the oil I bought could do. 

I happened to call ABC back a bit later for something else (tires, see later thread) and got the Operations Manager.   I asked him his opinion and he said the majority of people now use the multi-viscosity oil now-a-days in these engines.  He said there is nothing wrong with using this oil in these engines.  Furthermore, he said that if they have bus drivers travel in cold country, he would be afraid novice drivers may race the engine to get the air pressure up and may damage an engine before it had a chance to warm up. 

The Operations Manager has been doing busses for 30 years and said there is no need to drain the multi-viscosity oil from the engine.   He said many Old Timers (perhaps the folks that responded to this thread) swear by the 40W oil, but said the detergents in the newer oil are actually better for the engine.  So now I am trying to decide what to do.  I plan on reading the ďLubricating Oil, Fuel and FiltersĒ document some nice man put in the thread before making any decisions.  I still donít know what harm 10-40 will do, except it may go thru it faster.  But then again, I really donít want a $10,000 engine repair bill either and a bunch of Bus Nuts saying ďI told you soĒ.  That would be worse than the $10,000.


Title: Re: 8V92 Oil
Post by: Dallas on January 24, 2007, 05:24:17 PM
Hatt,
In my opinion, and it isn't worth too much, is that the parts guy, the service manager and the General manager are full of used male cow food.

If you happened to put a Reliabiult 2 cycle engine in the bus, (Reliabuilt is a Detroit Diesel trademark), and it blew up while you were using multiviscosity oil, your warrantee would be null and void.

Another point to ponder is that if you use the 15W40 or whatever it was, the back end of your bus and your toad will never ever rust. You can look to use at least twice as much oil as if you were using straight 40wt oil.

I really suggest you read and believe the 7SE270 document you were given the link for.

also, you may want to join the Detroit 2 cycle group on Yahoo:

http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/DetroitDiesel/

It's amazing the stuff you'll learn about your engine and it's capabilities.



Title: Re: 8V92 Oil
Post by: Dreamscape on January 24, 2007, 06:14:01 PM
This is how I see it.

If DD says that multi-viscosity oil is to NOT BE USED in our older Detroits, that's good enough for me.

Besides, everyone on this board with much more experience than myself says to use only 40 W oil, than I trust their experience and knowledge.

My manual also says the same.

The post at Tejas is a good read, it just makes sense.

Happy Trails,

Paul

Dreamscape


Title: Re: 8V92 Oil
Post by: Busted Knuckle on January 24, 2007, 07:18:16 PM
Hatt,
It's your bus, Your $, do it your way! But please go to the site I gave you and read it. Or call my Uncle who used to use regular 15-40 Rotella in his 9 charter buses and lost a couple of engines before he finally found someone to tell him why not to use the multi grade! It doesn't cool to tops of the cylinders as well as the straight 40 and most of the time will cause at least 1 or more pistons to burn a hole in the top! Guess what they'd found everytime he'd lost an engine in the past? That's right burnt pistons!!! And his mechanic (before he learned about this) told him it was ok too! (because he was to lazy to spend the time to get the right oil!). After that he never touched another of my Uncles coaches!  Or I can give ya the # to a top notch 2 stroke mechanic who's my age (I'm only 40) and he'll give ya the details! He also runs a fleet of MCI's with 8V92's ! Your welcome to call me 270-705-1139 Bryce aka Busted Knuckle  ;D


Title: Re: 8V92 Oil
Post by: Abajaba on January 24, 2007, 09:08:51 PM
You have gotten a lot of good information here.  I would stick with the CF-2 oil certification.  Basically if the people that build the engine tell you to not use multi-viscocity I would feel that they should know what they are talking about due to analysis and trying things out on a test stand.

Another thing that I have not seen mentioned here is a little trick that I was shown when I started driving two strokes.  When the engine is cold and you check the dip stick for oil level, don't fill the oil to the full line.  Leave it about half a gallon short of full and it won't use as much oil as if it was topped off.  That top two quarts of oil just seems like it wants to jump out of the bus and coat the road for some reason.

Abajaba


Title: Re: 8V92 Oil
Post by: NJT 5573 on January 24, 2007, 09:45:40 PM
Abajaba, Ha Ha, I tried running my 92 a little low on oil. The ddec was running shutdown codes and SHUTTING DOWN when 2 quarts low on my dipstick. Its very uncomfortable to have a computer park your ride for you like its litter. You go from ditch to ditch until you figure it out. I got fed up with the auto shutdown and had DD turn it off. I posted a recent EPA web site that linked multi weight oil and scored liners in the 1 and 2 hole on the right side engine cylinders.( Metro buses in Seattle). The source also explained how catalic mufflers were killing engine longivity in national bus fleets. I think a lot of NJT's old buses were catalic.


Title: Re: 8V92 Oil
Post by: niles500 on January 24, 2007, 10:41:11 PM
That's amazing - one of the guys at ABC in Garden Grove had a nice Eagle conversion at one time w/ a 6 or 8v92 - he should know better - let the jerk that told you that put it in writing on comapny letterhed and guaranty his ridiculous claim - he'll probasbly decline the offer - if not his boss will - listen to the experienced people on the board, the factory specs, common sense, etc.  and dump that multi-weight oil - happy bussing


Title: Re: 8V92 Oil
Post by: Barn Owl on January 25, 2007, 08:02:31 AM
There is no second guessing this one. Put the 40wt in! I would not be happy having to dump $100 of multi wt. oil either, but it doesnít belong in the DD2S. Unless DD comes out with new recommendations, which seems unlikely, I will only use what they recommend.


Title: Re: 8V92 Oil
Post by: RJ on January 25, 2007, 08:24:37 AM
Hyatt -

Didn't know you'd changed the oil yourself.

But I still stand by my original comments:  Take a copy of the Detroit publication I gave you the link for into the General Manager and request a refund for the oil.

If he still insists that the multi-viscosity is OK, have him put it in writing on the company letterhead, then forward copies to Detroit and to his boss at ABC in MN with a cover letter.

As I said before, Clancy Cornell has spent a LOT of time and effort building ABC's reputation - he will set this guy straight.


It has NOTHING to do with the detergents in the newer oils.  That's a fallacy.  Here's some basic info on multi-viscosity oil from a Google search:



WEIGHTS
The weights given on oils are arbitrary numbers assigned by the S.A.E. (Society of Automotive Engineers). These numbers correspond to "real" viscosity, as measured by several accepted techniques. These measurements are taken at specific temperatures. Oils that fall into a certain range are designated 5, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 by the S.A.E. The W means the oil meets specifications for viscosity at 0 F and is therefore suitable for Winter use.

MULTI-VISCOSITY OILS
Multi viscosity oils have polymers added to a light base (5W, 10W, 20W), which prevent the oil from thinning as much as it warms up. At cold temperatures the polymers are coiled up and allow the oil to flow as their low numbers indicate. As the oil warms up, the polymers begin to unwind into long chains that prevent the oil from thinning as much as it normally would. The result is that at 100 degrees C, the oil has thinned only as much as the higher viscosity number indicates. Another way of looking at multi-vis oils is to think of a 20W-50 as a 20 weight oil that will not thin more than a 50 weight would when hot.

Multi-viscosity oils are one of the great improvements in oils, but they should be chosen wisely. Always use a multi-grade with the narrowest span of viscosity that is appropriate for the temperatures you are going to encounter. In the winter, base your decision on the lowest temperature you will encounter; in the summer, the highest temperature you expect.

10W-40 and 5W-30 require a lot of polymers (synthetics excluded) to achieve that range. The polymers can shear and burn, forming deposits that can cause ring sticking and other problems. This has caused problems in diesel engines, but fewer polymers are better for all engines. The wide viscosity range oils, in general, are more prone to viscosity and thermal breakdown due to the high polymer content. It is the oil that lubricates, not the additives. Oils that can do their job with the fewest additives are the best.   Follow your manufacturer's recommendations as to which weights are appropriate for your vehicle.


Your engine won't die with this oil in it, but plan on putting the correct oil in at your next change.

But definitely try to get your money back from ABC!

FWIW & HTH. . .

 ;)



Title: Re: 8V92 Oil
Post by: pvcces on January 25, 2007, 09:29:38 PM
Russ, thanks for the detailed explanation of multiweight oils. It was an eye opener!

Tom Caffrey


Title: Re: 8V92 Oil
Post by: larryc on March 10, 2007, 08:30:51 AM
This subject was covered in depth in January but I just came across this article in the March 2007 issue of Bus Ride that you might be interested in:

http://www.busride.com/Page.cfm/PageID/8607


Title: Re: 8V92 Oil
Post by: Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM on March 10, 2007, 11:14:12 AM
Thanks Larry.  That article was a real eye opener.  I was fascinated by the article after getting the runaround at ABC in Garden Grove.

As it turns out, (I started this forum) I took a copy of the DD 2-Cycle Spec sheet that was posted on this forum and I also called the 2-Cycle Experts at DD and they confirmed, that you should NEVER put multi-viscosity oil in their 2-Cycle engines and they too sent me additional documentation.  I then personally went to ABC in Garden Grove and talked to the General Manager Roman Kornal and discussed the 10W-40 oil his people recommend for my 8V92.  He disagreed with the experts at DD, and you folks who responded to this question which I also showed him, and says he never has had a problem with using multi-viscosity oil in ANY of his engines, and he also added they run several busses with several different engines including 2-Cycle DD engines.  He also added, you canít believe what those people on this bus forum tell you.  Apparently, you folks have no credibility according to Roman.

He did however, after talking to some of his mechanics, agree to give me my money back for the oil.  He also said he would give me my money back for the new filter I had to buy to replace the one with the 10W-40 oil in it, which was also recommended by the DD experts.  I had to go home and bring them the 3 extra gallons of 10W-40 oil which I bought (10 Gals total) as their parts department didnít know how much it would take.  Roman insured me that he would be there the following day at 4:30 to ensure I get my money back for the oil and the filter.

The next day when I went back at the time we agreed on, I asked for Roman and he was gone for the day.  He was not there as he said he promised me the day before.  I went to the parts department and the guy at the counter didnít know anything about the deal I made with Roman and wouldnít refund my money.  I left the oil (and got a receipt for the oil) and he said he would talk to Roman when he came in the following day and credit my credit card for the oil and filter.  A week later, I got a receipt for credit for the oil but not the filter as Roman promised.  I decided not to go back and argue about the filter as it takes quite a bit of time to get waited on at their service counter and decided it is not worth the effort.

Bottom line, I did get my money back for the oil but not the filter.  The General Manager disagreed with what the DD 2-Cycle experts say and the documentation DD sent me  which I showed him.  BTW, they didnít even have any 40W oil on the premises which I tried to buy, but they did have about 50 busses on the lot, and several of them had 2-Cycle engines in them. 

However, that is only MY experience, and my first one at that as this is my first bus.  ABC Bus Company has been in existence for a several years and the Garden Grove location seems to run a very professional operation (and Roman is a very nice and fair guy) and they are even expanding to a new and larger building in a few months with a much larger lot, so for the most part, they must be a reputable company.  You canít build a company this large and successful without keeping your customers happy.   I think I just had one bad experience and hope nobody else has an experience like this.  I will continue to do business with them, but I definitely wouldnít buy a used 2-Cycle engine from them if I ever need one and they definately wonít be changing my oil.  I have also heard that the BIG MAN that runs all of the ABC Bus Companies tries very hard to provide his customers with superior service.  I would be interested in his opinion on this matter, as I am sure this is not his typical M.O.

Gary


Title: Re: 8V92 Oil
Post by: Gary Hatt - Publisher BCM on March 10, 2007, 11:35:18 AM
BTW, I havenít been successful in finding straight 40W oil in this area (Anaheim CA).  I havenít checked with NAPA yet as one of my friends suggested because I havenít had time to find a local store.   I had a good deal on DELO-400, but I have since learned that that oil is no longer recommended for the 2-Cycle engines as per the folks at DD.  I did check at two Home Depot stores as was recommended by someone in this thread, but I found out me they no longer carry oil.

If I canít find a local NAPA dealer, I will have to drive 45 miles to the local DD dealer and perhaps pay a premium price.  Apparently most auto parts stores donít carry single weight oil anymore.

Any suggestions?

Gary


Title: Re: 8V92 Oil
Post by: NJT 5573 on March 10, 2007, 12:48:24 PM
Well... since this got kicked back to the top..... In a round about way we are being told that our 2 strokers are obsolete. When I go to DD THEY ask me "hows your boat anchor?" I just returned from a Sea-San Diego run. I stopped for fuel at all the big truck stops, from Petro to Flying J and there was not one gallon of 40 weight for sale. If you don't take it with you, you are going to have to mix 15/40 with your 40 or else. Lucas oil was formulated to keep truck motors and gears togather in the California/Arizona heat 40 or so years ago. I think if I have to mix 15/40 and 40 to get home its gonna get a healthy dose of the Lucas product at the same time. I know my Allison sure likes the transmission product they make. They state their product is an oil base builder, maybe its enough to keep my boat anchor running in todays 4 stroke world until I die.


Title: Re: 8V92 Oil
Post by: bobofthenorth on March 10, 2007, 07:29:12 PM
Is there no farm fuel dealers around there?  I have no problem getting 40 wt from a farm fuel dealer in town.


Title: Re: 8V92 Oil
Post by: Jerry32 on March 10, 2007, 07:33:00 PM
The only place I could find 40 wt is at the local fuel jobber and I am in a farm community.  They carry Delo. Jerry


Title: Re: 8V92 Oil
Post by: LegalEagle82 on March 10, 2007, 08:29:09 PM
This is a followup to the suggestion of using Lucas Oil additivies, and wondering if there was any information good or bad on its use in the 2 strokes.

I'm sporting an 8v71 and like to know what my options are on an upcoming road trip. 
I'm in Nashville and there is not a lot of straight 40 sitting on the self around here either.

Tejascoach listed the part number at O'Rielly's Parts store as follows:

For Deloģ 100 40 wt, in the ITEM NUMBER, enter 100-40-1, in the LINE CODE, enter CHV
For Rotella 40Tģ,      in the ITEM NUMBER, enter T40-1,      in the LINE CODE, enter SHE

I'm going to stop by tomorrow at O'Reillys and ask if any problems to order some oil.



Title: Re: 8V92 Oil
Post by: Barn Owl on March 10, 2007, 09:01:39 PM
Try using the ďDealer locaterĒ on the oil manufactures web pages. That is how I found the Exxon XD-3 which has one of the lowest ash contents next to the Delo 100.

The chart below is from this link:

http://www.tejascoach.com/tips.html

*********************************************************************
Sulfated
Ash Rate

Comparison
Chart

Updated 08/30/06   Chevron Delo 100           40 WT              = 0.76    (24% BELOW benchmark)

Exxon XD-3                                             40 WT              = 0.80

Citgo Mystik Premium                                CLICK here for History of Citgo

Fleet Engine Oil                                        40 WT              = 0.90

Shell Rotella 40T                                      40 WT              = 1.00
                                                            (Shell Rotella 40T is boderline)

Delo 400                                                 40 WT              = 1.35    (35% OUT of TOLERANCE)

**********************************************************************


Title: Re: 8V92 Oil
Post by: ceieio on March 11, 2007, 11:17:45 PM
I just purchased an MC7C with an 8V92 engine and I am new to buses after owning a Fleetwood Discovery with a Cummins 5.9.   ...Stuff Deleted... They didnít seem to know how much oil it takes and said it could be between 7 and 10 gallons.  They also didnít know which oil filter to use.

Gary - some of this you will have to get accustomed to I think.  As an example the MC7 didn't come with a 8V92.  The 8V92 will hold differing amounts of oil depending on the oil pan and such.  Not knowing what application the engine came from, the best people can give you is a range of capacity.  Also, if by MC7C you mean an MC7 Combo, then you have even more to deal with.  The MC7 Combos were a retro fit to the 10 wheel configuration from the 8 wheel (using GM Sceniccruiser parts so I was once told).  This means that there will be a lot about your bus that may not appear in the books.  In even the best of times, people seem to have trouble looking up parts for our buses.  Throw in an engine swap and a custom drive train and you are almost certain to get head scratching at the parts counter.

My solution and advice is to start keeping a log book with part numbers for belts, bulbs, bags, bushings, brakes (OK enough with the B's!) so you have something to cross reference when you need something.

The multi-grade oil recommendation was quite lame but the rest of it is understandable and quite par for the course unless dealing with places like US Coach (who specialize in helping people like us with these classic buses.)

Good luck with your 7 and have fun!

Craig - MC7 Oregon



Title: Re: 8V92 Oil
Post by: RJ on March 12, 2007, 07:33:56 AM
Gary -

PM me for some info relating to following up with Roman Cornell at ABC Garden Grove.



Title: Re: 8V92 Oil
Post by: Busted Knuckle on March 12, 2007, 12:31:16 PM
BTW, I havenít been successful in finding straight 40W oil in this area (Anaheim CA).  I havenít checked with NAPA yet as one of my friends suggested because I havenít had time to find a local store.   I had a good deal on DELO-400, but I have since learned that that oil is no longer recommended for the 2-Cycle engines as per the folks at DD.  I did check at two Home Depot stores as was recommended by someone in this thread, but I found out me they no longer carry oil.

If I canít find a local NAPA dealer, I will have to drive 45 miles to the local DD dealer and perhaps pay a premium price.  Apparently most auto parts stores donít carry single weight oil anymore.

Any suggestions?
Gary

Gary try getting a hold of Mike aka MAK he's in Westminster and see where he gets it. I know for a fact he had a case of it sitting around, as I left it in the luggage bay of a bus I delivered for/to him!
BK!  ;D
Also check the oil distributers od "jobbers" who supply the "Docks" as a lot of the Tug/Tow boats run ol' Detroits and I'd bet alot of other old equipment around there do too!


Title: Re: 8V92 Oil
Post by: Busted Knuckle on March 12, 2007, 12:35:59 PM
Well... since this got kicked back to the top..... In a round about way we are being told that our 2 strokers are obsolete. When I go to DD THEY ask me "hows your boat anchor?" I just returned from a Sea-San Diego run. I stopped for fuel at all the big truck stops, from Petro to Flying J and there was not one gallon of 40 weight for sale. If you don't take it with you, you are going to have to mix 15/40 with your 40 or else. Lucas oil was formulated to keep truck motors and gears togather in the California/Arizona heat 40 or so years ago. I think if I have to mix 15/40 and 40 to get home its gonna get a healthy dose of the Lucas product at the same time. I know my Allison sure likes the transmission product they make. They state their product is an oil base builder, maybe its enough to keep my boat anchor running in todays 4 stroke world until I die.


The only truck stops I've been able to find it at lately are the larger "Shell" stops and some carry the Rotella T 40W and well some don't!

However I know of a little bus garage in Union City, TN that buys it in 55 gallon drums, stop on in and bring yer jugs! We'll be happy to sell ya some!
BK  ;D


Title: Re: 8V92 Oil
Post by: RTS/Daytona on March 12, 2007, 03:26:58 PM
Hi

When I purchased my RTS - I had ABC in Garden Grove inspect my bus and change oil and filters

THE IDIOT service manager did the same thing to me - after I told him I wanted sraight weight oil -

When I picked up the RTs the next day - I asked the service tech what oil he used
he said he was told to use multi-weight by the service manager

When I confronted the Service manager - said he called Detroit Diesel and verified the multi-weight was ok

MY Guess - the ABC @sshole service manager lied about the call

I drove all the way home to Florida with the multi-grade - I now run straight weight Rotela cf-2

Pete RTS/Daytona



Title: Re: 8V92 Oil
Post by: LegalEagle82 on March 12, 2007, 06:55:59 PM
After not seeing a lot / any straight 40 on the shelf around I followed a sugggestion and went straight to the suppliers site.   In this case, I went to Exxon.com and looked for local sellers/jobbers.

Within 5 miles of my house (Nashville) I have a local dealer with Key Oil who carries Exxon and Rotella.  I bought an Exxon case, which is 4 gallons at 9 something a gallon.    It worked for me, and now I have a good supply source. 


Title: Re: 8V92 Oil
Post by: bus05eagle on March 13, 2007, 07:58:02 PM
I never have a problem getting 40 weight all DD dealers have it or can get in a short time i just got 2 cases from williams at 51.80 per case sometimes the dealers have filters for 19.95 in a 3 pack 2 fuel and 1 oil thats when i stock up.stop at a DD dealer sometimes they have good deals because they know that they are going to get you sooner are later


Title: Re: 8V92 Oil
Post by: mcurtola on February 24, 2011, 08:27:37 AM
Great info here guys, i had a question got some small leaks from the engine head gasket  of my 8v92 nothing to get crazy, wondering if i could try Lucas stop leak oil in it would it be safe to try............... and in changing the drive axle oil should i go synthetic or just 80w90..... thanks for your help

mike


Title: Re: 8V92 Oil
Post by: wg4t50 on September 13, 2013, 09:42:36 AM
Have found the 40# works well forvthe normal 400 hp 8V-92, but if you push it up over the 500+++ arean you had best be thinking 50#.  If you read the newer DDC manual, you will find that info.  It saves the "spun rear main issue".
Dave M


Title: Re: 8V92 Oil
Post by: eagle19952 on September 13, 2013, 10:14:08 AM
I worked for a contractor for many years who were hired by AT+T to maintain Detroit Diesels for pipeline communications and controls for major oil companies. They used Delo 15w40 in there 200 and 250 kw gen sets for MANY years with out ANY measurable effects.
All of their overhauls were done on hospital/critical com maint. service schedules by franchised DD dealers and service centers, from Alaska to Seattle to Portland. all the engines were fully warrantied and never suffered engine failures of any kind over a 25 year period.
We finally switched them over to straight weights in 1998-9.The motors went into service in 1972.
the last contact I had with the contractor was in 2005-6.
They were still running.
I would run the oil out.


Title: Re: 8V92 Oil
Post by: TomC on September 13, 2013, 11:13:37 AM
In case you have a 149 series in your bus, 50 weight is also recommended (LOL). Good Luck, TomC


Title: Re: 8V92 Oil
Post by: wg4t50 on September 13, 2013, 12:17:01 PM
TomC,
You got it, I stayed clear of the 149 & 278A series, but had to get into the 110 series in case  you need any timing pins for a 110 ?.
Think can still find a few.
The reason for the 50 is better proven luck on the 8V-92 rear main, the 6V does not seem to have the issue.
As for the AT&T operation, my guess it was with the 12V-71 or 16V-71 as the71 series does not have the rear main issue like the 92, the part is a generator has a different duty cycle than a highway engine, like never being loaded under 1800 rpm etc, etc. when oil pressure is lower, off idle WOT.
Just another experienced view.


Title: Re: 8V92 Oil
Post by: DaveNCari on September 13, 2013, 12:53:19 PM
Any Oreillys can order Delo 100 in straight 40.....that's where I get mine.   

DG


Title: Re: 8V92 Oil
Post by: RJ on September 13, 2013, 07:41:15 PM
Any O'Reillys can order Delo 100 in straight 40.....that's where I get mine.

Part Number:  100-40-1 CHV  (CHV goes in vendor box, if counterman's stumped.)

FWIW & HTH. . .

 ;)


Title: Re: 8V92 Oil
Post by: uncle ned on September 14, 2013, 07:01:06 PM


Worked around the 12v71 generators at our hospitals.  they were tested once a week. 0 to 18oo rpm in a instance. if not special detroit men were sent to check.

Not a room to be in pulling telephone wire through during a lightning storm.

instance hearing problem.

uncle ned