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Title: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: captain ron on August 21, 2007, 11:30:40 PM
I just bought a new laptop today and want to wipe the hard drive and put my old hard drive info on the new one including windows XP.
any pointers and advice will be appreciated.


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: Songman on August 21, 2007, 11:40:17 PM
If you are formating the HD and starting fresh, there is nothing to it. That takes Vista out of the equation. Just make sure you have your discs and drivers for all of your peripherals.


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: Nick Badame Refrig/ACC on August 22, 2007, 03:57:02 AM
Hi Ron,

Vista takes some getting used to.. I'm now all Vista, laptop, 2 office, and 1 home, and it's not so bad now.

The security is better and sooner or later you may have to go through the change....lol

Good Luck
Nick-


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: 4106-123 on August 22, 2007, 06:44:31 AM
you need to be aware that xp does not have the drivers for the  new sata hard drives you will need to have the drivers on a floppy disk before you start. do a google search for xp sata drivers


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: Songman on August 22, 2007, 07:07:54 AM
I like Vista too. I was a beta tester so I used it many months ago. At that time it wasn't ready. There were no drivers to handle all of my equipment. I had to take it back off of my main business computer but I left it on secondary computers. Since the retail version came out, the only issue I have had at all is with Vista/XP network connectivity. It's not really a problem, just takes a bit more setup to get it working. Vista does take some getting used to though because quite a bit of it works differently than XP.


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: TomCat on August 22, 2007, 10:15:56 AM
I just bought a new laptop today and want to wipe the hard drive and put my old hard drive info on the new one including windows XP.
any pointers and advice will be appreciated.

Or...Put your old hard drive into a USB adapter and have access to all your old info, while you learn to embrace Vista.

Jay
87 SaftLiner


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: captain ron on August 22, 2007, 10:17:37 AM
Ok let me try this again, computer shut dopw in middle of post doing an auto upgrade  >:(  The main reason I don't want Vista is I can't run some programs I got for "free" (mainly Photo Shop) and some of my midi and mp3 files I've had for years won't work (says I don't have permission) I was able to run them on a friends Vista system off of one of my usb memory sticks but only from that particular memory stick and not the others. Also vista is very cumbersome and takes up too much speed. I bought a hard drive cage so I could use my old hard drive but I don't think it's going tgo work like I hoped. I wanted to be able to run XP from it and use my Firefox and all of it's settings and run all of my "free" programs.


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: TomCat on August 22, 2007, 10:26:06 AM
Hey Ron...Sounds like you would like to have XP loaded on your machine as well as Vista, and be able to boot up either operating system.
I know it is possible by using partitions on your new hard drive, but it is beyond my scope.
Someone here has the skills you need, and hopefully will chime in soon.

Jay
87 SaftLiner


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: larryc on August 22, 2007, 11:49:06 AM
Personally I have no compassion for people who are running "free" software (as I understand your meaning of "free").


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: captain ron on August 22, 2007, 12:05:57 PM
not asking for compassoin. bet you've never coppied a cd or wached a movie for free have you?  I don't download pirated software but if a friend buys it and gives me a copy then so be it. It's funny how a movie has a warning about a $50,000 fine and 5 years in jail for copying a movie then a road sign says kill or injure a worker and get a $5,000 fine and 1 year in jail. It's funny how movies , cd's, computer programs and trees are more important and valuable than a human being. If I ever get busted for piracy I'll just run over the person and kill them for a l;ighter sentence. (of course I'm just kidding for those of you who don't share my sense of humor)


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: Dallas on August 22, 2007, 01:12:48 PM
Hey Ron,,, I like your sense of humor!

I don't always understand it, but I like it!

I feel the same way about software, movies, music, etc.

As to your problem with MS Vista, according to my contacts.. goodluck! It seems that Vista is the next version of ME only worse.

As was mentioned earlier, you can run a dual boot system by installing a copy of XP on another partition. In order to do that, you'll need to have the partitioning software to split your hard drive. You'll also need to have the XP drivers for your SATA hard drive. those are downloadable from MS, your computer manufacturer or the hard drive manufacturer.

Another option is to do a low level format using the hard drive manufacturers setup software available on line for download. Then install your XP system as a new install or copy your old systm over to the new drive using the same software.

There are other options but those are the two easiest to explain on the board and for a non technician to be able to do.

I hope that helps,

Dallas


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: Songman on August 22, 2007, 01:46:41 PM
The part I am missing is why your Photoshop and mp3 aren't working with Vista. Whether or not it is pirated (and it is none of our business anyway) it should still run. I had Photoshop and mp3s even back on the beta versions and they worked fine. Sounds like there is some other problem to me.


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: ArtMaybee on August 22, 2007, 02:02:35 PM
Put together a list of things needed before you start the xp install.
Xp installation media
XP drivers for you SATA hard drive controller (you will need this in the beginning of setup)
Any other required drivers (most important will be the network card driver)
        If you don't have internet it is hard to download drivers and stuff. You should be able to
        get the XP drivers for your laptop from the manufacurer's web site.    

You most likely will not be able to boot directly from the old hard drive on the new laptop. Newer MS operating systems tend to dislike major hardware changes without reinstallation (chipsets cpu type etc). XP and newer is where the most problems come from. I've seen problems when changing to a different chipset. It doesn't want to boot. Your best bet if you want XP is to format and install XP as suggested.

If you want to play midi and MP3 files you might want to use a different player. Windows media player isn't the best solution out there anyway. You should be able to associate those files with a different player. I've heard that XP has some strong new DRM built into it so maybe those old players are having issues. I'll find out when I look under the hood of vista at some point.

I've been lucky that our company is slow to adopt new software and OS's and have yet to be forced to mess with Vista. I'm not excited about the prospect of supporting that operating system.

I'd be happy to walk you through an installation/setup if need be.

I'm in the IT department of one of the large defense contractors.
A+ certified
7 HP certifications
3 IBM certifications
13 years in the field.

I've worked in web design, co-owned a web hosting company, run the support department for a medium sized internet service provider, etc, etc, etc.


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: Nick Badame Refrig/ACC on August 22, 2007, 03:47:25 PM
Hi Guy's

My 2 new office computers are HP with "duel corr" I'm told I can run both Vista and XP if I wanted.  ?? Not sure..

I'm also glad that my bussiness software works with Vista, because if it didn't, it would cost me about $25k to repurchace...

Anyway, the Vista system is working and with no glitches so far. It's far better then XP in alot of ways like, ease of opening files,

security, networking, and um..um.. games.

Good Luck
Nick-





Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: captain ron on August 22, 2007, 04:25:56 PM
As far as my Photo Shop not working I have not tried it myself. I was told if you ran any pirated programs on vista your computer would be locked down as vista suposedly goes online and reports this to microsoft  ??? I just didn't want to take a chance. The mp3's and midi files did come up with a window saying I did not have permission to use those files. I was however able to use them off of one of my usb sticks. I can probably change file names and make them work.


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: Dallas on August 22, 2007, 04:33:47 PM
Nick,

"Dual Core" only refers to the processor. What that means is that there are two discreet processors on one silicone chip as opposed to the old way of using two separate processors.

I'm glad you like Vista. I just hope you have good luck with it and it's "Security"  ;D

I would almost be willing to bet you that I could break through your security while sitting at your desk with you in the room looking at me within (1) one minute.

I may not do it that fast, but it wouldn't be much longer.

WOO - HOO Microsoft does it again!

Hi Guy's

My 2 new office computers are HP with "duel corr" I'm told I can run both Vista and XP if I wanted.  ?? Not sure..

I'm also glad that my bussiness software works with Vista, because if it didn't, it would cost me about $25k to repurchace...

Anyway, the Vista system is working and with no glitches so far. It's far better then XP in alot of ways like, ease of opening files,

security, networking, and um..um.. games.

Good Luck
Nick-






Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: Nick Badame Refrig/ACC on August 22, 2007, 06:51:39 PM
No Way Dallas...

I have a State of the art, High Tech, Lab Tested, Samsonite Luggage lock on my computors.

You would have to be a Monkey to get in to it!  ;D

Nick-


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: captain ron on August 22, 2007, 07:00:30 PM
I'm having trouble cutting and pasting in Vista, What's the trick?


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: Dallas on August 23, 2007, 04:31:17 AM
No Way Dallas...

I have a State of the art, High Tech, Lab Tested, Samsonite Luggage lock on my computors.

You would have to be a Monkey to get in to it!  ;D

Nick-

But I have a dremel tool, angle grinder, smoke wrench, and a tow chain that will hook to a convenient spot to pull it apart!

Somethin's gotta give!  :D

Dallas


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: ArtMaybee on August 23, 2007, 06:38:11 AM
For the music files just use a different player... do a google search for winamp.
It was free last time I downloaded it. I like it better than media player anyway.
When you install winamp it will prompt you to change the file associations for your MP3 and any other sound files you would like to open with it.

The pirated software shouldn't be a problem. Microsoft is only checking for pirated Microsoft software. Vista does not check serial numbers and status of third party vendor's stuff.



Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: H3Jim on August 23, 2007, 09:25:30 AM
I just bought a new laptop for my bus, for my tv to show pictures and streaming movei from netflix etc.  I don't see how Vista does anything for me.  Its expensive, and since I don't play video games, the DirectX 10 does not really benefit me.   I had to look a lot, but I did find one with XP on it. happiness

The downside of Vista is that some GPS programs, and my engine management software would not run on Vista.  So hmm, lets see, more money, less compatability, minor features I can't use.

MIcrosoft has just pulled XP from any new computer, if you buy new, you must buy it with Vista.  I think Microsoft is just trying to recoup its investment all at once.  Until it gets cheaper and EVERYONE has drivers for it, its more of a pain.  XP does everything I need it to do.

my 2 cents




Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: captain ron on August 23, 2007, 11:59:02 AM
I haven't tried any perifials yet in my new laptop such as my GPS, camera, or recording equiptment. I still want to partition my hard drive and run both systems. I still have to install my extra but I think they gave me the wrong on it's only 512 mb and I thought I was getting a bigger one.


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: Busted Knuckle on August 23, 2007, 01:23:46 PM
I haven't tried any perifials yet in my new laptop such as my GPS, camera, or recording equiptment. I still want to partition my hard drive and run both systems. I still have to install my extra but I think they gave me the wrong on it's only 512 mb and I thought I was getting a bigger one.

That's what she said too! LOL!
;D  BK  ;D


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: maria-n-skip on August 23, 2007, 01:34:29 PM

 Ron

     FWIW

  I've run dual booted machines.....Linux,Nt,XP, etc. just about any combo there in.

  Back up often!!!!! if you do go this route.     I personally liked partition magic in the Linux systems for partitioning.

  Skip


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: H3Jim on August 23, 2007, 01:49:17 PM
Ron, if all you have is 512 meg running Vista, you'll be sorry if youdon't upgrade to at least a gig of ram.  Vista is such a hog.  (pun intended)


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: gus on August 23, 2007, 02:31:09 PM
I'm with you Ron, MS software is so grossly overpriced and so poorly designed that it causes nothing but headaches to the average user. MS lets the buying public test their software, nice! I'll take every free one I can get but won't buy pirated stuff. I don't use any of their stuff like Office or IE, there are better ones available free on the net and I don't mean pirated, I mean free.

I have a standing rule of never using a new Win version until the next one comes out. By that time, maybe, most of the bugs are worked out! I also have a lot of very old software that works fine for my needs so why upgrade to more expensive stuff that is mostly fatware anyway?

My one regret is not getting an Apple in the first place.


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: DrivingMissLazy on August 23, 2007, 03:00:07 PM
Ron, this may be something you are interested in:
]http://store.worldstart.com/product.php?productid=3564] (http://store.worldstart.com/product.php?productid=3564)
Richard


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: captain ron on August 23, 2007, 03:17:17 PM
I was leaning towards Apple but $400.00 for a laptop that has all the stuff this one has I had to go with a PC. I'm gonna see if the memory out of my old one will work in the new one to speed it up even more. Forget that, it's only 2 - 256mb cards so I guess I'll just stick the other 512 in till I can afford 2 really big ones. This one has an 80 gig hard drive plus I have a Lacie 250 gig Hard drive and a cage for the hard drive out of my old laptop and even another old laptop. So I have lots of storage space, just need to learn how to properly use it.


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: captain ron on August 23, 2007, 03:21:58 PM
What will that do for me?


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: Christyhicks on August 23, 2007, 06:57:21 PM
Well, when Larry "blew up" his laptop, he scarfed my little bitty one and suggested I should buy myself a new one.  At that time, thinking I couldn't buy one without Vista, I took the jump, and to be honest, it was a real pain.  Sure, lots of programs work with it, but lots don't.  The scheduling software we use is not Vista compliant, neither is our fax program, and I waited over six months for Sony-Erricsson to come out with the drivers to run my air card on Vista.  No matter how many suggestions I've followed, how many files I've downloaded, and how much I've played with our network, we are still at the point where the Vista laptop can see and access files on the XP computers, none of the XP computers can ever access the Vista one, which makes it annoying for me to save files to it.  I have to keep it open on my desk and use it to "grab" the files, instead of just saving to it when in the process of saving updated files for various computers.

Due to our perpetual shortage of office help, I decided to move the scheduling computer into my office, and because I wanted to option of easily moving it to Margie's desk when I was gone, I wanted to purchase another laptop.  I found that there are indeed XP computers available, and I found a nice little Compaq with specs meeting my needs that had XP. . .found it at CompUSA.  Now, you'd think with three laptops sitting on my desk, I'd get more work done, wouldn't you, ha ha. 

It always was easy for me to find any file on our network, simply by using the search command and picking where I wanted to search.  I have yet to find a way, when on my Vista unit, plopped on my couch,  to search a network computer (at the office) for a file using a search command.  If it's there, I can't seem to find it, even in "help".  I also have had to use Maxemail, an internet faxing service, for faxing from this Vista, because it doesn't even have a basic fax program on it, and I can't even print from it to our fax program on another computer because there are no fax drivers for it.  Sure, I guess I could buy all new programs, but to be honest, I have a company to run and simply do NOT have the time to learn a bunch of new programs when the ones we have work so well for us. 

Oh well, eventually, we will have no choice and everything will be Vista, but it ticks me off that Microsoft will NOT offer support for any computer sold with Vista on it, and the computer manufacturer will NOT offer support for Vista, so basically, no one would talk to me to help me solve the network issue we have with accessing that computer. 

Here, let me whine some more while I try to make the point that you can find computers with XP on them, new, with full warranty, if you search, and it's worth the search, ha ha.  Christy Hicks


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: Nick Badame Refrig/ACC on August 23, 2007, 07:13:49 PM
Well, when Larry "blew up" his laptop, he scarfed my little bitty one and suggested I should buy myself a new one.  At that time, thinking I couldn't buy one without Vista, I took the jump, and to be honest, it was a real pain.  Sure, lots of programs work with it, but lots don't.  The scheduling software we use is not Vista compliant, neither is our fax program, and I waited over six months for Sony-Erricsson to come out with the drivers to run my air card on Vista.  No matter how many suggestions I've followed, how many files I've downloaded, and how much I've played with our network, we are still at the point where the Vista laptop can see and access files on the XP computers, none of the XP computers can ever access the Vista one, which makes it annoying for me to save files to it.  I have to keep it open on my desk and use it to "grab" the files, instead of just saving to it when in the process of saving updated files for various computers.

Due to our perpetual shortage of office help, I decided to move the scheduling computer into my office, and because I wanted to option of easily moving it to Margie's desk when I was gone, I wanted to purchase another laptop.  I found that there are indeed XP computers available, and I found a nice little Compaq with specs meeting my needs that had XP. . .found it at CompUSA.  Now, you'd think with three laptops sitting on my desk, I'd get more work done, wouldn't you, ha ha. 

It always was easy for me to find any file on our network, simply by using the search command and picking where I wanted to search.  I have yet to find a way, when on my Vista unit, plopped on my couch,  to search a network computer (at the office) for a file using a search command.  If it's there, I can't seem to find it, even in "help".  I also have had to use Maxemail, an internet faxing service, for faxing from this Vista, because it doesn't even have a basic fax program on it, and I can't even print from it to our fax program on another computer because there are no fax drivers for it.  Sure, I guess I could buy all new programs, but to be honest, I have a company to run and simply do NOT have the time to learn a bunch of new programs when the ones we have work so well for us. 

Oh well, eventually, we will have no choice and everything will be Vista, but it ticks me off that Microsoft will NOT offer support for any computer sold with Vista on it, and the computer manufacturer will NOT offer support for Vista, so basically, no one would talk to me to help me solve the network issue we have with accessing that computer. 

Here, let me whine some more while I try to make the point that you can find computers with XP on them, new, with full warranty, if you search, and it's worth the search, ha ha.  Christy Hicks


Hi Christy,

What software are you using for your busisness?  When I switched over to Vista, I was very lucky that my software was compatable.
I have been using bottom-line-softwarefor 9 years now, and when I started with them I was on Win 98. So far they did a good job with their updates to merge with Vista. All my functions are accessable with some new features that we couldn't do before.
http://www.bottom-line-software.com/
Nick-


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: muddog16 on August 24, 2007, 03:48:58 AM
I could be wrong that has happened several times!  But, one of the reasons and or for the lack of a better word control points about Vista was the inabilitity to run "free" programs. Microsoft seems to be the leader in making sure we "buy" our software, especially theirs!  Many, many years ago in a far off galaxy, I would share the use of friends software. I'm on computer number 5, and I buy my own software and "use" internet security and anti virus, this computer has operated so smooth its scary, i have very little problems with it................which means microsoft can't make any or very little money.....................therefore I know i'm screwed......another new system how nice ::)!


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: Ross on August 25, 2007, 07:25:15 AM

MIcrosoft has just pulled XP from any new computer, if you buy new, you must buy it with Vista. 





I wonder how that will effect new PC sales.  I'd like to have a new, faster laptop, but I'm not buying one with Vista.  I'd rather use my old laptop.  Not a problem with desktops as you can build one or have one built for XP.    I have quite a few programs that don't work quite right on Vista.


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: gus on August 25, 2007, 03:49:38 PM
Christy,

Whine away, I do the same thing every time I see the name MS. I also whine because I wasn't smart enough to start out with Apple in the first place. I knew better,The Win iinterface s a direct copy of Apple-not a very good one though. Any MS software that is any good at all was bought or lifted from someone else.

MS is fighting the inevitable that most software will soon be free on the net by making it difficult to use anything but MS on Win. So far they have gotten away with it except in some foreigh countries.Most


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: Songman on August 25, 2007, 05:50:14 PM
After 25 years of experience in computer graphics and starting out on a Mac and moving to a PC, a can assure you that Windows is not even close to a copy of Apple software. True, it is a GUI but that is about the end of the similarities. And if you want to point a finger at a copycat you have to go back farther to Steve Jobs stealing Xerox ideas. Xerox was the first with a GUI, not Apple. People can complain about Microsoft all they want to but I would hate to think how far behind computers would be without them. I can run my entire graphic/multimedia business almost on software solely from Microsoft and Adobe. And I can do it cheaper and with more compatibility on a Windows PC than I could on a Mac. In the 80s, if you did graphics you had to have a Mac. If you did video, the unknown Amiga was the champ. Now PCs are doing it all... Thanks Microsoft.


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: oldmansax on August 25, 2007, 06:27:28 PM
So far, I haven't found anything Vista does for the average business user. It does have a lot more overhead than XP. I am selling new machines, both desktops (I build each one to the customers specs) and laptops with XP everyday. There should be vendors who will sell you guys what you want. If whoever you are dealing with now won't, find someone else.


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: Dallas on August 26, 2007, 03:49:49 AM
I too have to thank Microsoft.

For many years MS paid my bills, put food on my table, paid for fuel, bought parts for the bus... all due to the lack of quality of the product. Remember Windows "Millennium Edition"? "Win95 4.095"? "Win98 1st Edition"?

I spent many a quality hour sorting out problems that cropped up with those OS's. Especially when they came out with PnP and "soft" modems, NIK and sound cards.

Then there's the vulnerability problems. A good tech needs to be not only hardware oriented, but able to diagnose software too.

Thanks Mr. Gates!


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: Christyhicks on August 26, 2007, 06:56:11 AM
We're using Nitek Software Business suite, which is an integrated program providing scheduling, estimating, sales and manual J calculation.  We, like you Nick, have been with this program for like 10 years, and when I purchased my laptop with Vista, it was not Vista compliant.  A few months ago, they came out with the Vista upgrades, but I've learned, like many have, to let someone else deal with the "quirks" that only show up when it's actually being used in the field on a daily basis.

I know that Apple users sing it's praises, but here's my opinion: Apple refused to license it's software to anybody and kept extremely tight control, there were practically no periperals and very little software produced and available for the end user.  Of course, when you installed anything on an Apple, it worked, but that's because they kept such tight control. . . and prices were and are higher.  Well, if you're ok with that, buy Apple.  You'll have fewer problems for sure, but then again, you'll have fewer options.  Sure, there are more flaws discovered in Microsoft software and more people trying to take advantage of them, but if Apple software were used as much as Microsoft is, do you REALLY think people wouldn't find flaws in it???? 

Let's face it, if you were a creepy hacker type person, would you spend a bunch of time trying to manipulate Mozilla, on the odds that you might find an occasional user, or would you do it in Explorer, because you know TONS of people are using it.  Anyway, I think Windows is an inexpensive program that is fairly easy to use (much easier than typing in the commands like we used to), and my only gripe is that a computer manufacturer won't support the products they put on their machines, and Microsoft won't support it because it's OEM on the computer. 

I should have just looked around a little more before I bought a Vista laptop, and then, I should have returned it when I realized that neither Microsoft nor Toshiba was going to help me solve the network issues.  As it is, I've got another XP one that is working great for us, and I just live with the network issues on the lone Vista.

Ok, now don't chew on me over my opinion, I never said I was a professional computer person by any means, I just observe.   I confess, I don't believe in all the conspiracy theories either.  I don't care WHAT someone does, three different people will come up with three different reasons they did it.  If a company is successful, many different people will come up with many different reasons why, from "They work hard and do a good job" to "they had unfair advantage" to "they cheat".  Me, I just go to work every day and do my thing, and one weekends, well, right now I work on the bus, ha ha.  christy HIcks


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: Songman on August 26, 2007, 07:58:03 AM
A good comparison to what Christy is saying...

Around here there is a radio commercial that sings praises to the fact that AT&T has the fewest number of dropped calls of all cell phone networks. The ad guys were very careful with wording that. AT&T may have the fewest number of dropped calls, but not the smallest average. If I have a company with 10 customers making 10 calls a day and only drop 50 out of those 100 calls, I can still say that I have fewer dropped calls than the company with 10,000 customers that only drop maybe 100 calls per day. They still have better service, but my small number makes it possible for me to say I drop fewer.

Same thing with Microsoft vs. others. Sheer numbers of customers make it looks like tons more problems, when if you look at averages it isn't. Any company has their bad products. Windows ME was the worst of the worst. Luckily there were lots of other MS options for you to choose from and they replaced ME pretty quickly in the overall scheme of things. And as someone who has also had to do tech work on many thousands of computers over my 25 year career, I can tell you that the largest percentage of problems came from the operator not knowing what they were doing but still trying to mess with settings. And I still find that true today... So yeah, I get paid because of errors as well, but the majority of them are not MS.


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: Nusa on August 26, 2007, 08:41:31 AM
As I understand it, the bulk of the new security in Vista are DRM features for the music and video industry. Oh, there are some real improvements, like making user mode the default instead of admin mode (these things existed in 2000 and XP too, but were largely ignored both by users and software makers), but you have to bypass that security to install a lot of software (which demands admin mode). And downloading and installing stuff from the web is one of the primary ways machines get infected. Caveat Emptor, sadly.

I think I'll stick with Windows 2000 Pro on my own systems for a bit longer. It's not an option for people who don't already own it, but it still does the job well, is less bloated than either XP or Vista, doesn't phone home if you change your hardware, and still has a large enough userbase that Microsoft still issues security patches even though it's technically out of support.


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: Songman on August 26, 2007, 09:41:08 AM
No company can support a product forever. Tried to buy any Model A parts from Ford lately? Even more recently, my Pontiac Fieros are just about in the same position as the Model A.

Windows 98 was released in 1998 and supported until 2006. XP was released in 2001 and will be supported until 2014. Both cases offer support for plenty of time. I don't see how anyone can fault MS for that.

And by statistics, Windows is installed on 90% of the computers in the world. See my above post about number of problems compared to percentage of problems. How long is Microsoft support to continue supporting Windows 98 for that 1.05% of people using it? Somewhere there are probably people still using W3.1 of DOS too? I bet Apple doesn't support anything before OS10. But since they are not Microsoft, no one worries about that. 

(http://marketshare.hitslink.com/chartfx62/temp/CFT0826_1242122C8D7.png)
Results of report August 26, 2007

What is hard to believe is that according to the report there are still .56% of people still using ME!


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: gus on August 26, 2007, 01:47:04 PM
Songman,

You picked a very poor example for support. You can buy any part you want for a Model A or even a Mustang, even enough to build a new one if you want!

Of course these parts don't come from Ford but they have Ford's permission.

MS sells junk stuff and trys to make you believe that each new Win is "More stable and faster"! Each new one I get seems to crash worse than the last.

The whole point is that Win should be easy to use for the average person, not just tech experts, since it is sold to the masses. The MS philosophy is that you should adjust to their system, not the reverse.

They produce untested garbage and they know it. The wisest thing I ever read is "Never buy a MS .0 Version of anything".


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: Songman on August 26, 2007, 03:11:59 PM
Not a poor example at all. Someone said MS didn't support their old stuff... Neither does Ford. Aftermarket does. I get aftermarket stuff to add to my Windows system too. You're talking about aftermarket which is a poor example and has nothing to do with the point.

As I said, the problem in most cases is not that Windows messes up. It is that users mess around with stuff that the average user has no business messing with and cause their own problems and then blame MS. My mother was a perfect case in point. She would call me and ask me what something in the Windows folder was for. I told her she had no business in the Windows folder. Her computer was so screwed up that it would hardly come on. I bought her a new Dell and told her that she better not even open the Windows folder and if she did she was on her own to fix her screw-ups. Her computer has been working flawlessly for two years.

It doesn't take a tech to make Windows work at all. Apparently it takes a tech to know not to mess with stuff they know nothing about. I have 4 computers and an xBox on my wireless network in the house. Three XP and one W98. No problems ever. I am constantly told how junky Linksys routers are and that they have to be reset about once a week to keep them working. I have been on mine for over two years and the only time I reset it is when I updated my security settings.

Knowing what not to install off the internet goes a long way too. Most don't. Still the problem is not Microsoft. There are too many of us running it with no problems to blame it on them.


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: Hartley on August 26, 2007, 07:58:01 PM
I suffered a total system failure on my win 2000 pro system that has been serving me pretty well
with a few updates since 1999, I think it was a win 98 system prior to 2000 Pro.

Well, as you know if you buy new hardware and the software maker decides to end support you are screwed. This is the case with Win 2000 Pro. So new hardware is only supported now with Vista or if you are lucky XP Pro.

XP Home and Vista Home are remakes of MILLENIUM Edition... ( A full load of you know what!!! )

Vista Business ( optional ) is almost as crippled as things get. So I jumped to Vista Ultimate
for all the bells and tattletales.. Geeezzzzz.. what I have I done???

Yes Folks, I have entered FULL ON CRAZY once again.... I almost have it basically under control but have uninstalled about half the garbage already and deleted loads of crap and as I said almost.....

I managed to cobble the old system back together and get it barely running but lost all my programs and have sort of repaired the bad sectors on the hard drive, Duct taped a fan to the back of the case and got drivers and new system loaded... Maybe I can recover my graphics and files but now have to figure out what I did with all my install stuff if that will even work with vista....

So far PcAnywhere 11.5 is a no-go, They make you buy a new version and won't even think about trying to install the old one... MS-attack dog software already pissed me off today once or thrice...

Arghhhhhhhhhh...

I hope my XP laptop will hold on for a while longer. I am NOT going to update that ( EVER! ).....

Other than the aggravation factor I kinda Like Vista better, But ease of use is somewhat lacking but the wide screen display is nice....

Dave- The Insane One....


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: gus on August 26, 2007, 09:44:27 PM
Dave,

I jumped directly from W98 to XP because I heard so many bad things about 2000. I bought a new computer with XP just as Vista was coming out before it was too late!

It will be a long time before I go near Vista.

Songman,

Buying more stuff for old Win is not getting support, support is help that should come from MS when one has problems. MS doesn't want to help, it only wants to sell Vista.

MS is becoming so paranoid that legitimate owners are getting messages from MS security that their perfectly legitimate Vistas are not legit??

No matter how you cut it Win is garbage.

Win of all versions is so full of bugs and the list of fix downloads is so long that if you ever get behind it is dangerous to try to catch up because your computer will almost always get fouled up. Even one at a time is hazardous.


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: prevost82 on August 26, 2007, 10:24:21 PM
Personally I couldn't make a living without MS or I would have to go back to pencil and paper.

I have to agree with songman, for me MS is the only O/S that will run all my CAD / graphics and office programs. I "F" dish all my machines once a year to keep them clean.

I run top componets and lots of ram 2 gig on my laptop /w a nVidia Quadro FX V card and 4 gig on the workstation. I am on a computer 8 to 10 hrs a day and itg rare for me to have any problems.

Ron


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: Songman on August 27, 2007, 06:02:32 AM
Gus,

Everyone has their favorites. I know, I used to be a Mac guy to the core.Of course, that was when Windows 3.1 was first out.

And I am not arguing with you about whether or not Windows is junk. You are entitled to your opinion. But as I said, there are too many of us running Windows flawlessly to call it junk. I'm sorry that you seem to have had so many problems with it.

But still you are missing the point I am making about support. I likened it to Ford still supporting the Model T. You said that was invalid because you could still get anything from a Model T. I said aftermarket was different because Ford itself was not still supporting the Model T, and that I could even get aftermarket stuff for Windows...

Now you said 'Buying new stuff for Windows is not support'. I agree. And that is not what I said.

As I pointed out in my earlier post. Windows XP is officially supported through Microsoft until 2014. There is 7 more years of official support. Plenty of time for people to work bugs out. It is not free support, but again to the car scenario, after the warranty is up they don't offer free support either. It is just not true that "Microsoft doesn't want to help, they only want to sell Vista". True, all new machines come with Vista. You can't get a 427 in a Chevy anymore either. All companies, regardless of their product, have to move on.

I am not here defending Vista. As I said, I was a beta tester and had to remove it because it wouldn't work with most of my peripherals at the time. But I have worked on new Vista machines and set up a few Vista/XP networks for clients and have had very few problems, and those I was able to work out within a few hours. I still prefer my XP Pro, but then I usually don't like to buy a car in first year production either. I like to let them work the bugs out first... And Microsoft is no different.

My bottom line point remains - I think it is incorrect to sit and call an entire company junk when there are so many people running their products flawlessly. It obviously can be done. And my secondary point is - Microsoft has brought the computer industry farther than any other company and we wouldn't have come nearly as far without them. The study I posted earlier shows it best. You can't have 90% of the market unless you are doing something right.

Thanks for the friendly discussion guys. Seems to me that this is just down to preferences now and I we're just repeating stuff. I will offer that if anyone has any Windows problems that I can help with, just ask. Not saying I am an expert or anything but I have zero problems with my Windows stuff.


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: Dallas on August 27, 2007, 06:16:08 AM
Gus,

I will offer that if anyone has any Windows problems that I can help with, just ask. Not saying I am an expert or anything but I have zero problems with my Windows stuff.

OK,
Here's my windows problem,

When I use my admin function to open a window, there seems to be a "leak" so to speak. Sometimes all that I get is a blue screen if I look up and a green screen if I look down.
Opening the window itself is actually the main problem, it hangs and won't do anything I ask it too. I eventually have to physically interact with the system and use a screw driver to get it to finish opening the window.
If I leave the window open too long, I have problems closing it again, it seems to take forever to close unless I use the screwdriver or even a hammer to tap on the case.
Please Help!

Oh, and I forgot to mention.... sometimes, even if the window is closed there is leakage of water especially if there is a grey screen.


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: DrivingMissLazy on August 27, 2007, 06:32:55 AM
Did you ever stop to think that it might be raining and nothing is wrong?
Richard


Gus,

I will offer that if anyone has any Windows problems that I can help with, just ask. Not saying I am an expert or anything but I have zero problems with my Windows stuff.

OK,
Here's my windows problem,

When I use my admin function to open a window, there seems to be a "leak" so to speak. Sometimes all that I get is a blue screen if I look up and a green screen if I look down.
Opening the window itself is actually the main problem, it hangs and won't do anything I ask it too. I eventually have to physically interact with the system and use a screw driver to get it to finish opening the window.
If I leave the window open too long, I have problems closing it again, it seems to take forever to close unless I use the screwdriver or even a hammer to tap on the case.
Please Help!

Oh, and I forgot to mention.... sometimes, even if the window is closed there is leakage of water especially if there is a grey screen.


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: Songman on August 27, 2007, 06:43:10 AM
Dallas,

I have considered your problem carefully and I have consulted with one of my top helpers.

(http://www.dalehouston.com/images/comphelp.jpg)

We have come to the conclusion that we can help you and are going to send one of our top techs out to solve your problem.

(http://www.excellentwindow.com/nss-folder/pictures/excell2.jpg)

He will work with you to show you how to handle the problem should it come back in a few months. Our goal is to ensure that people have a pleasant experience with their Windows. There is a whole world out there and Windows wants to help you see it.

Should you have any more problems, please feel free to contact me.

Sincerely,
Bill Gates


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: RJ on August 27, 2007, 06:50:41 AM
All -

My sister's husband is the techie-guru at Intel Folsom that's in charge of the group integrating Intel processors into Apple (or vise-versa, depending on your viewpoint.)  Jim's both a hardware and a software guy, so he's very familiar with what's what, nowadays.

He told me recently that Intel, as a corporation, is holding off moving to Vista from XP Pro for at least 18, if not 24 months - and not because of the $$$ involved with license fees.

Thought it was an interesting comment from somebody deeply involved within the industry. . .

FWIW & HTH. . .

 ;)


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: Hartley on August 27, 2007, 10:10:49 AM
Now if someone could release a "PATCH" for all that's wrong with "LIFE" that would be of interest.

I started having trouble with my XP laptop.. Geeezzz...

It wouldn't see the networked computers.... My Old IBM Latop XP would but the compaq
ceased seeing anything but itself. Seems that it was part of workgroup but wouldn't talk to it.

The Vista machine saw the ID in it's network but couldn't find it, Nor could the other XP and W2000 machines.... What the heck is happening....

Well after 24 hours of searching for the "WHY" and getting patches for XP to see LLTP
which didn't work.....

Apparently the Netbios function was killed off by a stray bullet into the NBT parameters in the registry.... Talk about needing a sledghammer to remove a fly speck on the windshield...

Found the answer on the MS technet site. deleted one key value and all of a sudden I could see again.

The WINS says that netbios over TCP/4 is ON but ipconfig at the command prompt says it was off... Damned MIcroCrap anyway.....

So, Nick.... Somewhere in there may be some help. If you are seeing all the other computers on the network with your vista you should be OK for the basic part.

I jumped to Ultimate over Business for the couple of extra features and the $50 difference.

The networking in Vista Home is crap but the Business and Ultimate both support older legacy servers without any additional learning curves. Programs now is a different story.

I copied a number of older legacy applications across to the Vista machine and they all seemed to work fine so far. There were system complaints but only complaints as they were ignored by me.... Networked applications are under test right now to see how far the destruction can go....

Oh.. Well....

NASA doesn't use MS Windows for Mission Critical Anything.. Geee I wonder why??? ::)


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: Nick Badame Refrig/ACC on August 27, 2007, 11:03:39 AM
Hi Dave,

Yes, I'm seeing all my computors now on my network. The problem was, I had "my" computor set as Home base sorta speak,

and once I released that computor to be just like all the others, all worked. All the office comps are looking at eachother wirelessly now.

So, I have none directly wired to the modom anymore.

Thanks'
Nick-



Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: Songman on August 27, 2007, 12:44:30 PM
NASA doesn't use MS Windows for Mission Critical Anything.. Geee I wonder why??? ::)

Same reason Detroit doesn't use it to run bus engines? Or GM for the computers in cars? Proprietary software...

NASA may not use Microsoft to actually run the mechanics of the shuttles, but they sure use Microsoft on tons of other stuff... All it takes is a Google search. Everything from deep space photography to mapping the trajectory of the space shuttle. Thank goodness Microsoft is not working on the same budget as NASA. Taxpayers pay for NASA proprietary developers at the rate of $1000 per line of code. Microsoft operating systems cost about 50 per line. Can you imagine the cost of a Windows OS to the consumer at NASA's rate. Once again... Thanks Microsoft.


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: prevost82 on August 27, 2007, 01:56:36 PM
Quote
OK,
Here's my windows problem,

"When I use my admin function to open a window, there seems to be a "leak" so to speak."

I think that's your first mistake ... I always thought that Cat was the admin, she the only one that can open the window!!!!

"Sometimes all that I get is a blue screen if I look up and a green screen if I look down."

I would see my doctor about that ... or may be you're sitting it the driver seat looking out the front window of the bus ... when you look up your looking throw the blue tinted glass and when you look down ... it's the grass man!!!!

"Opening the window itself is actually the main problem, it hangs and won't do anything I ask it too. I eventually have to physically interact with the system and use a screw driver to get it to finish opening the window."

Sounds like you are confusing your computer windoz with your bus windows ... don't use a screw driver on windoz or you could be hurt.

"If I leave the window open too long, I have problems closing it again, it seems to take forever to close unless I use the screwdriver or even a hammer to tap on the case."

Again ... same answer as above ... I think you need some maintenance on your window slides, clean well and lub ... this should take care of the problem

Please Help!

"Oh, and I forgot to mention.... sometimes, even if the window is closed there is leakage of water especially if there is a grey screen."

Were you, Cat and the laptop in your shower together ..... Stay out of the shower with your laptop.
 
 
 


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: Busted Knuckle on August 27, 2007, 03:57:21 PM
OK I am totally computer illiterate! So what I am fixing to say maybe stupid, or maybe not! When I first got involved with the most Awesome motorcoaches made (SETRA) I asked them at their headquarters in Greensboro, NC what they thought in their opinion was the biggest problem SETRA owners had with their coaches? Their answer was "without a doubt 100% people who didn't understand them, working on them!" That meant if yer gonna work on it, you need to understand it!
That is why I work on buses and leave computers to those who understand them! JMHO FWIW!
;D  BK  ;D


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: Hartley on August 27, 2007, 06:07:10 PM
OK I am totally computer illiterate! So what I am fixing to say maybe stupid, or maybe not! When I first got involved with the most Awesome motorcoaches made (SETRA) I asked them at their headquarters in Greensboro, NC what they thought in their opinion was the biggest problem SETRA owners had with their coaches? Their answer was "without a doubt 100% people who didn't understand them, working on them!" That meant if yer gonna work on it, you need to understand it!
That is why I work on buses and leave computers to those who understand them! JMHO FWIW!
;D  BK  ;D


Probably types with his thumbs too.... 8) 8)

I use all four fingers and two thumbs ( on the same hand apparently )
Mostly backspacing to correct fumble fingers...

If you can spell "SETRA" you CAN work on them, Just remember it's German engineering with US made parts in the oddest places. Metric or SAE with that beer?

Never can tell about people, But not about buses either the way things usually go..

Dave...


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: Busted Knuckle on August 27, 2007, 07:29:53 PM
Quote from: DrDave-Reloaded
If you can spell "SETRA" you CAN work on them, Just remember it's German engineering with US made parts in the oddest places. Metric or SAE with that beer?

Never can tell about people, But not about buses either the way things usually go..

Dave...

Dave most of what I've dealt with this is the case! But I have learned for what ever reason(probably could not keep US model production up with demand that some of the early S217 HDH's (some but not ALL '94 + '95 models) were actually European models modified to meet US Customs demands thus there are some European/US  hybrid BASTERDS running around the US and guess who ended up with one of them?

Right now I am plagued with their ignorant euro rear end design trying to replace the almost impossible to replace pinion seal! (it requires 3 special tools that can only be gotten thru Setra or ZF Industries at a cost of $888.30 from Setra or $1049.46 from ZF!) I'm thinking very seriously about replacing the rear end with a 40,000 # dump truck rear end! Which when I told Setra I was thinking about doing so I was told "you can't do that it won't work!" LOL! They have obviously under estimated what an ol' country boy with a smoke wrench and a welder can do!
OK I'm off my soap box for the moment! ;D  BK  ;D


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: Hartley on August 28, 2007, 07:54:15 AM
BK,

That makes me wonder if that guy down in Winter Garden Florida has a setra for parts that might have a rear-end that will fit your bus?

I know he was located near the Setra dealer there, like maybe across the street?

Contact ACE and see if he can remember the name of the dealer of all those parts buses. He went there a while back for another guy who bought one from there.

If you can't find ACE here, Then try my board as he is always a click away there...

Dave....


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: captain ron on August 28, 2007, 08:33:59 AM
Don't you have a parts bus where you bought the running busses from?


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: H3Jim on August 28, 2007, 08:39:19 AM
Talk about a hi-jacked thread!!! How did this get from computers to Setra rear ends?


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: Songman on August 28, 2007, 08:43:01 AM
Go Dawgs!!!

Oops! Sorry, wrong thread.

 ;D :D ;D :D


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: Busted Knuckle on August 28, 2007, 06:18:55 PM
Don't you have a parts bus where you bought the running busses from?

Ron yes I still have the '89 S215 HDH in Idaho and have been working on a deal to either get it hauled here soon. Or I may put it on ebay! The rear end in it won't work with out changing the gear ratio, and I can buy a heavy duty truck rear end (dump truck, cement truck, heavy hauler) with either the right ratio or one close enough to work for a lot less than I'd spend just getting the other one home! I figure I can get the whole rear end from a salvage yard for $1,000 or less hub to hub! And a chunk to change the gear ratio in the other one will be close to that if I can find the right ratio! But great thought, thanks for trying to keep me sharp! By the way check out my new thread! I have new faith! ;D  BK  ;D

By the way guys I didn't mean to hi-jack this thread! See the new one please!


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: Songman on August 28, 2007, 06:50:43 PM
Nothing wrong with a little controlled detour every now and then... It's easy to get a thread back on track. Sometimes something is said that reminds you of something else. No problem.


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: Nick Badame Refrig/ACC on August 28, 2007, 08:25:00 PM
This thread is sooo long that it's getting hard to keep up...

Someone Please start a new thread just on "How to use Vista"

Nick-


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: Hartley on August 28, 2007, 08:34:34 PM
Talk about a hi-jacked thread!!! How did this get from computers to Setra rear ends?

Actually the thread didn't get hijacked, It was redirected by a Garmin GPS and took the scenic route. Oh.. Sorry.. I just had to mention GPS....

They should have called them " Go Way Off on a Back Road Adventure Systems "

GWOBRAS  ( I know it doesn't make sense! )

I would not like to think about a GPS program running under Vista.. Vista has to stop and ask your permission to CRASH ! ( for lack of a better word . ) Gads..

And NO NASA does not use MS Windows.. It is a custom operating system built for mission critical use. It is a DOS-Like based GUI system. Pretty neat but very expensive. Linux looks about as close as any of us will ever get to "reliable"

Too bad, IBM's OS/2 was almost bulletproof but Ol'e Bill G. took that and stomped the only better operating system into the ground....So here we are...XP & Vista...



Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: Hartley on August 28, 2007, 08:36:28 PM
Sorry Nick,

I will shut up now....


Title: Re: OT: Getting rid of Windows Vista
Post by: Songman on August 28, 2007, 09:00:39 PM

And NO NASA does not use MS Windows.. It is a custom operating system built for mission critical use. It is a DOS-Like based GUI system. Pretty neat but very expensive. Linux looks about as close as any of us will ever get to "reliable"


It is not Windows like you and I use Windows, but it is still a Microsoft operating system.

And still... I have zero problems on my Windows network... so 'reliable' comes down to the user and setup apparently. Sorry you guys seem to have so much trouble.