Bus Conversion Magazine Bulletin Board

Bus Discussion => Bus Topics ( click here for quick start! ) => Topic started by: 86neoplan on June 08, 2006, 10:48:23 AM



Title: Is bus converting over with? Low sulfur on the way!
Post by: 86neoplan on June 08, 2006, 10:48:23 AM
We were sitting at the bus garage today discussing how the new low sulfur fuel will affect our school bus fleet.

some concern was brought up about the lubricating properties of the fuel, especially in pre 2007 vehicles, which takes into account most if not all of us.

Are we going to be ok, or should I begin to think about other options...

Always something...


shawn


Title: Re: Is bus converting over with? Low sulfur on the way!
Post by: Ross on June 08, 2006, 11:51:52 AM
Pre 2007 accounts now and will account in the not to near future for the majority on diesels on the road.  If something like that comes to pass, someone will make an additive for the new fuel to make it work in lolder vehicles.  I wouldn't worry too much about it though.


Title: Re: Is bus converting over with? Low sulfur on the way!
Post by: Frank @ TX on June 08, 2006, 11:59:38 AM
Hey guys,
would a few cups of motor oil in the tank at fill up solve the lube problem ?????????


Title: Re: Is bus converting over with? Low sulfur on the way!
Post by: NCbob on June 08, 2006, 12:03:57 PM
I've read quite a few articles about this.  In my opinion it's just Washington caving in to the 'Special Interests" (read Environmental Whacko's) who'd love to shut Commerce completely down in the U.S.  There's a bunch of older gypsy truckers out there who need to run to make a liveing and the Line Haul outfits aren't going to dance to the Enviromental fiddlers.

Not to be outdone...Think about those poor Mexican truckers hauling all those important goods out of Mexico (where all the US Companies went during the Clinton years) running those old beater West Coat Emoryvilles (w/no front brakes).  Like no water in the desert...it would place a burden on them that would be considered "unconscionable".

There'll be additives we can "BUY" to add to the price of fuel but sooner or later they'll find a roadside test for it...like 'off road' fuel!

That's as poltical as I'm going to get.... Your turn FF!

NCbob


Title: Re: Is bus converting over with? Low sulfur on the way!
Post by: coachcrazy on June 08, 2006, 12:11:36 PM
what about "bio deisel" or vegtable oil conversions or are the 2 the same?


Title: Re: Is bus converting over with? Low sulfur on the way!
Post by: Melbo on June 08, 2006, 01:14:12 PM
In my opinion it will be similar to the unleaded rollout

There will be some form of additive that will either be incorporated over time into the fuel so pre 2007 vehicles will operate or we will have to add it ourselves.

Melbo


Title: Re: Is bus converting over with? Low sulfur on the way!
Post by: TomC on June 08, 2006, 03:14:29 PM
This is the same problem we had when we went to low sulfur Diesel a few years back.  Some of the older trucks had problems (most of these are probably off the road by now).  Now with the Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD) coming out, we are worried again.  But, the fuel companies are going to be putting other additives in the fuel to compensate.  Besides, how much lubrication can 500 parts per million have? (the amount now).  Course going down to the new 15 parts per million is a big difference.  I have a '79 Olds Diesel (my extra car), '84 MB Turbodiesel, and the '77 AMGeneral bus-all of which I'm not worried about it.  Besides, why worry about it anyway?  You can't control it, and if it does prove to be a problem, you can bet that the additive companies will be jumping right on that band wagon.  Good Luck, TomC


Title: Re: Is bus converting over with? Low sulfur on the way!
Post by: 4104bigred on June 08, 2006, 05:21:56 PM
from what I understand the ULSD will not have any effect on older diesels. the sulphur is corrosive anyway and LSD or ULSD we will not even notice any problems

and why worry anyway

chris


Title: Re: Is bus converting over with? Low sulfur on the way!
Post by: boogiethecat on June 08, 2006, 05:30:03 PM
I squirt a little tube of "lubribor" into my tank each time I fill up anyway, then don't worry about it. Cheap stuff, good I guess...

http://www.hammondscos.com/products_marine.asp?p_id=lubribor&p_header=LubriBor

Comes in a little box of packets just like mustard packs at McDonalds. One pack good for 35-40 gallons...


Title: Re: Is bus converting over with? Low sulfur on the way!
Post by: FloridaCliff on June 08, 2006, 05:40:17 PM
Gary,

Where are you purchasing it from and whats it go for ???

Thanks

Cliff


Title: Re: Is bus converting over with? Low sulfur on the way!
Post by: BJ on June 08, 2006, 09:43:04 PM
California has had low sulphur diesel for a lot of years and they lived through it. In the beginning every one said to add a quart of oil to the fuel but that doesn't work. the only problems were op rings seals, I had to replace one on my fuel pump on my 262 cummings then I started using an additive. Never had another problem. No big deal, flying J has the additives you need.


Title: Re: Is bus converting over with? Low sulfur on the way!
Post by: Big Tom on June 08, 2006, 10:27:27 PM
Everything I have read in trucking industry publications about ultra-low sulfur diesel (ULSD) is that it should not cause problems in older engines.  Many remember the problems with the switch from regular diesel to low-sulfur diesel a decade or two ago.  Many engines, and Ford pickup diesels in particular had problems then.  The real problem was a major change in two additives at the same time, but the sulfur change got the blame because of its lower lubricity.

The problem was "O" ring failure.  The "O" rings were of a material that swelled in a certain manner when exposed to additives in the old fuel.  When the additives were changed the "O" rings shrank and failed.  New "O" rings, even of the same material, react differently to the new additives but work fine.  It is just that if they were exposed to the old additives first, they went bad when those additives were absent.  Sounds crazy, but some of the best petroleum engineers in the business say it is so.

The ULSD does have additives to compensate for its lower lubricity.  ULSD has been undergoing extensive testing in pre-2007 engines in long-haul rigs for some time and is working well.  It has been in some pumps in California for months already and some of you may already have used it unknowingly.  Some feel it necessary to use additives or blend in some bio-diesel for lubricity, but so far there has been no proven benefit in doing so, but if it makes you feel better do it.



Title: Re: Is bus converting over with? Low sulfur on the way!
Post by: DrivingMissLazy on June 09, 2006, 06:09:19 AM
Does anyone know if off road (red) fuel is harmful to new diesel engines. A friend's four month old Dodge 4X4 pickup is in the shop now for a new injector pump? Even if the off road fuel is low sulfur, which I doubt, should it cause any harm?
Richard


Title: Re: Is bus converting over with? Low sulfur on the way!
Post by: boogiethecat on June 09, 2006, 06:43:14 AM
Cliff, I just called Hammonds directly and bought it from them.  One box was (as I recall) under fifty bucks and had enough packets in it that I'm only halfway down after 3 years/roughly 25,000 miles.
PHONE
(281) 999-2900
(800) 582-4224


Title: Re: Is bus converting over with? Low sulfur on the way!
Post by: Len Silva on June 09, 2006, 02:06:33 PM
Does anyone know if off road (red) fuel is harmful to new diesel engines. A friend's four month old Dodge 4X4 pickup is in the shop now for a new injector pump? Even if the off road fuel is low sulfur, which I doubt, should it cause any harm?
Richard

Off road diesel is exactly the same a pump diesel except for the red dye.
However, it is my understanding that repair shops are supposed to report any signs of red dye in a highway vehicle.  Your friend could have more problems than a bad pump.

Len


Title: Re: Is bus converting over with? Low sulfur on the way!
Post by: Big Tom on June 09, 2006, 07:19:50 PM
According to the information I have seen it is virtually impossible to get all traces of the red-dyes off-road diesel out of the tank once it has been used.  Would be really maddening to be cited for using it a year after the actual use.  And fueling a bus at an off-road pump would raise suspicions.  Have seen a few off-road buses, old 4x4 schoolies used for hunting, logger transport, etc., but they still were on-road a lot too.


Title: Re: Is bus converting over with? Low sulfur on the way!
Post by: Busted Knuckle on June 11, 2006, 07:42:45 AM
I don't know how long the dye lasts but, I do know that while we had our charter buses down at Hurricane Katrina Relief last year several times they supplied us with red fuel and a piece of paper showing that yes it was off road fuel but taxes were paid on it and they were using it because it was all that was available! I still have a copy of that piece of paper in the buses just incase! FWIW!
:) ;) :D ;D :o 8) ::)  Knuckle ::) 8) :o ;D :D ;) :)