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Author Topic: Ceiling Fabric or Vinyl  (Read 11727 times)
mlh1936
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« on: October 31, 2008, 08:49:21 PM »

How about some recommendations for covering my ceiling. Do you guys like fabric, vinyl or something else?
I have a pretty uneven surface. Is it practical to install some foam or other padding behind the ceiling material?
What cement do you recommend to keep it in place?
Thanks.
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« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2008, 04:07:49 AM »

Foam underlayment can be used. Smooth vinyl will reflect more sound than fabric and is easier to clean. Fabric will collect more cooking odors, grease and dirt, and is harder to clean, but absorbs more sound. Not sure about best adhesive, but I would also use some mechanical fasteners(screws with trim washers or buttons) as most adhesives eventually fail (maybe 3years, maybe 20)  Jack
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« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2008, 04:53:11 AM »

Hi mlh,

I have Ultra suede on my ceiling panels and I wouldn't advise anybody to have any kind of fabric on your ceiling.

Reason, seems all kinds of smells like from cooking gathers in the fabric... It's real challenging trying to clean the ceiling too!

Stick with vinyl or laminate if you can.

Good Luck
Nick-
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« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2008, 05:41:25 AM »

I did vinyl over lightly padded 3/8 plywood in small sections and I'm very happy with the results. Using small sections you can create a unique design were are endless.
Ace
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« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2008, 06:02:09 AM »

Ace, did the 3/8ths panel give a good base for the vinyl?  I was thinking along those lines, with foam made for upholstery, then covered with vinyl, my ceiling joists are on 20 inch centers......(i matched the chassis steel layout) which should give plenty of support.  Did you used exposed screws or are they hidden?  When I put each section of ceiling in, my lights will be already installed in the panel along with vents and speakers I don't want any sag just good support!
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« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2008, 06:44:22 AM »

Dog the 3/8 gave a lot of support and was easier to install and cut to fit (I put mine up AFTER everythine else was in) and I have NO screws or connectors that can be seen. I used what is called in the upholstery field as a christmas tree fastener. A 1/4 inch ribbed fastener that presses into your panel and then when you put your finished panel in place the exposed end of the fastener goes into a pre drilled corresponding hole in your firring strip. In my case I used a complete sub ceiling of 3/8 plywood prior to any finished panels.
As for the padding? I went to HD and purchased a couple rolls of padding that is used under laminate flooring. Its thin enough to give just enough foam feel but not too thick to distort the vinyl. I padded each panel after I pre drilled my fastener holes and covered each panel by using contact cement on about 3 inches of each edge of vinyl AND back side of plywood. After stretching the vinyl to fit smooth and tight, I reinforced it by using staples around the whole edge. Then insert your fasteners and simply press into corresponding holes in your ceiling.
Using these fasteners allows you to remove any panel if needed to run or repair any wiring that you may have above.
If you need more info, pics or sourcing, just ask!

Ace
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makemineatwostroke
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« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2008, 09:22:11 AM »

I have ultra leather(smooth) in mine easy to clean, the new Ozite materail RV builders are using now is not bad being 100% Polypropylene the old stuff was a PITA to clean.The high end converters are using what looks to be Masonite to me with rails on each side that just snap in and with Dacron instead of foam backing, with the heat transfer over time foam and vinyl will deterate, check around on places like a RV surplus and ebay if you can find ultra leather at a good buy it would be the best for headliner use , being the roof is the hottest spot in a coach.     have a great day
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Blacksheep
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« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2008, 09:35:56 AM »

I hate to dispute your theory although in some cases it may be true but my ceiling is actaully cool compared to the double pane insulated windows located on the side of the bus. Check it with a temp gun and you'll see. Also there is about 10-15 degrees difference from shooting directly on the glass and directly on the day/nite shades.
I don't look for my vinyl to deteriate any time soon and for that matter, in my lifetime!

Ace
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makemineatwostroke
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« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2008, 09:49:32 AM »

Ace; keep in Fl and proably will not be a problem bring it to the Southwest in the 115 degree summer time heat it will be a problem I see Marathon and RV dealers replacing it all the time when the oil leaves the vinyl time to replace it you have a great day
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Blacksheep
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« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2008, 10:02:13 AM »

What, you saying it doesn't get hot down here in Florida? I've been in buses where it was so hot you can't breath. I don't think you really have an argument there. I too live not too far from Marathon dealer/service center and visit often. I don't see many of them being replaced. Also we visit Lazy Days RV world and most if not all the S&S coaches use vinyl. I think ozite and fabric went out in the 70's.
As for foam breaking down? Yes if it is a polyurethane foam it will break down from heat rather quick but most converters don't use polyurethane anymore!
As far as using the ultra leather? Trying wiping it down with a wet cloth and cleaner. You'll find discoloration over a period of time, something you don't get with vinyl.
I say to each his own but don't knock a product that has been tried and proven for many years comparing IT'S cost to alternative methods!

Ace
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« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2008, 10:54:42 AM »

We WERE going to use that very thin plastic sheeting stuff employed in bathrooms and built up shower stalls.  Home Club has it in various light color shades.  Were going to alternate 4 foot lateral strips of off white and light powder blue with a separating thin molding.

This stuff (don't know what it's called) is very light weight, flexible and bows up easily against the curved ceiling, but hids holes and dips.  Also hard and kinda shiny and cleans up real easy.  Adhesive and SS screws would have held it all up. Hope this helps.  HB of CJ Smiley Smiley Smiley
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« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2008, 11:25:07 AM »

what type of vinyl do you put on the ceiling? if that is what will be used there are many differnet types and prices if you have a name brand that would be great.
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« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2008, 11:32:05 AM »

You 2 guys never agree on anything,  putting my horse into the race here  both of you are talking about two different areas of the country with different type heat in AZ we have our world famous "dry heat" take a hair dryer blow it on a materail sample for 10 minutes that is what you get here in AZ.  Vinyl is not a materail used here and for Ozite I have it on my ceiling and it was installed about 2 years ago again (3rd time) and I would not recommend using it.Being a part owner in a RV dealer I see new RVs with Ozite on the ceiling along with vinyl I call it wall paper and like Jack said it falls off in about 2 years or less here.For the ultra leather I love the stuff most of the so called leather furniture in RVs are made with it.Thinking about using it on my ceiling next time but at 60 bucks a square yard it's pricey       good luck and play nice
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« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2008, 12:37:29 PM »

I used white vinyl glued to 1/4" luan plywood with contact cement.   Srewed it to the ceiling runner on one foot centers and covered the screws with those white caps.  All this was bought at an upohlstry supply place.  It's been up 5 years with no problem.  Easy to clean, but don't hit it with a sharp object.    I like Ace's idea over a pad.  That would give it a nice soft look, though I wouldn't want to do the extra work.

David
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« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2008, 04:03:10 PM »

Newb question...I've been looking for a topic like this.


    Do you install the ceiling fabric before or after everything else? 
 

    OK, reading that seems dumb...redirect: So after everything is done with the exception of ceiling lights, then you place the material up top?  Is this a PITA?  I mean, I saw a little bit of a demo on busconversions101.com but it looked like it would be hard to keep the contact glue from "contacting" other objects (cabinets, refrig, walls) as your installing the material.

   On a side note, just how high can you raise your roof?  The standard I've seen advertised is 10".  Is 12" possible?
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« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2008, 04:19:21 PM »

I used a very good marine/auto  grade upholstery vinyl. If I remember, it was something like 17.00 per yard!

As far as what goes up first? It's up to you! Most everyone I know puts the headliner or ceiling up first and then goes from there with the rest of the stuff like cabinets, walls etc.. I did just the opposite! I had all my cabinets and walls up and wires run thru the ceiling. I did the complete ceiling last! It forced us to make some weird patterns around some of the bath and kitchen cabinets but Susan got to be pretty good at that. I just copied the template she made from cardboard (making necessary adjustments here and there) and went from the back to the front, one section at a time such as, first the BR, then the Bathroom, then the kitchen, and finally the LR!

Is it perfect? Hardly, but none the less, it saved me a BUNCH of money doing myself considering the prices I got from the pros!

Ace
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« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2008, 05:55:31 PM »

We did our finish ceiling (not vinyl) like Ace did, after the cabinets and walls. One advantage doing it this way is that I still have access to the "stuff" in behind the ceiling panels that can be removed if neccessary. Trade-off is that we had to cut the panels to fit.  Jack
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« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2008, 07:47:28 PM »

I used the closed cell foam padding that was sold as the pad under vinyl tops it is about 3/8ths thick. I cut the foam pad to the dimensions that I needed in sections, some as large as 10 foot by 3-4 foot, then I laid it on the work table and glued white vinyl to it wrapping under the back side.

For glue I i used the 3M cans of spray glue to bond the vinyl to the foam. To glue it to the ceiling I borrowed a pressure pot and spray gun from a local trim shop and sprayed the back side of the roof section, then the ceiling and after it was tacky we put it in place. So far so good!

I do have a few seems on the ends of the sections, but no fasteners. With the pad on the underside it does smooth out some of the imperfections, but I admit I should have taken more time on others. All in all it looks good, not great, but like Ace said, I saved a bunch, and I did it my way.

The key is to use the glue that the professionals use for holding it to the ceiling, I really don't think the spray cans would have worked. I did have to mask off the cabinets and finished walls to keep over spray off them, and the fumes were really bad until I placed a barn fan in the doorway blowing them out.
Jim
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« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2008, 07:48:41 PM »

One more
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« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2008, 07:57:29 PM »

That looks good Jim. In fact, we currently have a short pile carpet with wood trim (I think it looks good and with the little steam cleaner is easy to take care of) but the wife wants something more along the lines of what you've done. Thanks for the info, Will
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« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2008, 10:39:15 AM »

 We put Ozite on our ceiling eight years ago, so far it doesn't hold any smells we do not allow any cigarette smoking, in fact the bus still smells new inside, we cook with the stove exhaust fan on all the time.  We also have an exhaust fan in the ceiling in the kitchen area. We chose to put the Ozite ceiling up first, that way it's behind all the cabinets, we put all the wiring in snap track conduit, we ran 12 volt down the driver side and 110 volt down the passenger side, it comes in all different sizes.

We cut the Ozite for the width of the ceiling and sewed them together side by side for the length.  About 4 panels, we did it in two sections, half the bus at a time.  On the ceiling we have 3/8     limo ceiling insulating rubber, which is glued on to the ceiling with industrial strength professional glue, we sprayed the ceiling with glue and the Ozite with professional glue, (it comes in 5 gallon buckets) we used a spray gun to put it on.  We centered the Ozite and put the center up first and worked outwards.  See pictures.
Where it was sewn together at the seam it looks  like a rib, see pictures.

We've had many comments on it, including one from Ron The
Busnut.

I hope the pictures give enough info for what I talked about.

               Pete & Jean
                 FANTASY
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« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2008, 11:59:05 AM »

 Just two more pic
              Pete
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« Reply #22 on: November 02, 2008, 01:38:23 PM »

Pete, that's a great job.Ron has told me about that ceiling before now I know what he was talking about.I have never had a problem with Ozite materail  that wasn't caused by human error, the 1st time mine was replaced was because my grandson shook a coke and sprayed the ceiling(his mother not watching)and the stains we could never get out.The second time was from a guy who installed a new Fan-Tastic fan and it leaked leaving a large water spot tried to just cut the area out but it never looked good.And as far as smell goes we don't smoke or allow smoking in our coach, all the people I know tell me that Ozite will not absorb smells like vinyl and foam I don't know wouldn't argue the point but your ceiling looks great   good luck
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« Reply #23 on: November 03, 2008, 03:15:57 AM »

I was in the construction stage of my bus trying to decide on Vynil, carpet, ozite. What to use, what kinda glue ect.  I was at Jack Conrads and a man showed up with an oak and mirror ceiling. I could not wait to do it.  I am not good with large pieces of mateial but I enjoy working with wood.
 I would post a picture but cant do it right now.   Jim
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« Reply #24 on: November 03, 2008, 03:54:23 AM »

This is not JJR's ceiling but ours, which is similar.  Jack
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« Reply #25 on: November 03, 2008, 04:38:47 AM »

Nice looking ceiling Jack is that Plexiglas mirror,Vantare is big on mirrored and metal ceiling.   
 you guys do work like the pros
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« Reply #26 on: November 03, 2008, 04:54:38 AM »

Ozite (indoor/outdoor carpet) and Plexi Mirror w/twinky light border)

installed 4 year ago - still looks good
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« Reply #27 on: November 03, 2008, 06:13:32 AM »

The resizer is working again!!   Here is a picture of my ceiling and yes it is plexiglas mirror.  I did the curved part of the roof with ozite, I paid to have it done. Then had to redo it myself!!


« Last Edit: November 03, 2008, 06:18:29 AM by jjrbus » Logged

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« Reply #28 on: November 03, 2008, 06:51:49 AM »

I did my ceiling with a marine hull liner that looks like ozite (maybe it is). Glued it on with 3M spray cans. In one piece. Trim around the edges after. It hasn't fallen off and it doesn't smell.

JC
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« Reply #29 on: November 03, 2008, 01:26:54 PM »

Looking at all this fine work makes my mouth water!!!!   Can't wait to get started on mine... Wink
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« Reply #30 on: November 04, 2008, 03:29:04 PM »

use spray foam then  cedar tung and grove strips. great looking ceiling and different. Grin
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« Reply #31 on: November 04, 2008, 04:15:25 PM »

use spray foam then  cedar tung and grove strips. great looking ceiling and different. Grin

We used glass batting and cedar T&G in our Schoolie 30 years ago. It looked great and really held in the heat nice. It also had a small castiron coal burning stove with a stack out the roof, which we raised 12". This not only ages us, but it proves we've been Busnuts for quite awhile!  Grin
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« Reply #32 on: November 05, 2008, 03:46:10 PM »

I've just completed redoing the bedroom ceiling.  Used Glasliner Fiberglass Reinforced Panels (FRP), available at Home Depot.  Easy to cut, easy to work with.  Matching molding is also available.  Wish I had done it months ago.

Bill
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« Reply #33 on: November 09, 2008, 06:53:55 PM »

When we got to the ceiling in our 4104, we used Fibre Decor mfg-ed. by Fibre Wall of Canada.
It comes in bags much like papiermache,  it is mixed with water and applied per package instructions,
it has worked well for us, we do have an occasional crack but a little water and a roll with the
roller provided takes care of it.  It has some sound deadening qualities as well a some insulating
ability.  It comes in a number of colors, too.
Blessings,
David  Smiley
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Winton, CA
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« Reply #34 on: November 12, 2008, 04:34:04 PM »

I've figured out how to use the photo re-sizer...

Here are a couple photo of my bedroom ceiling, that I've just completed.

Bill
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« Reply #35 on: November 12, 2008, 05:48:43 PM »

Fine looking job, but I really expected mirrors!!  Is the trim 1/4 round oak? 
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« Reply #36 on: November 12, 2008, 05:54:16 PM »

Yes the trim is oak round..

Bill
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