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Author Topic: Need a VS2-8  (Read 6452 times)
Christyhicks
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« on: June 22, 2006, 07:23:03 PM »

So, according to the local Guru, I should be looking for one of the VS2-8 trannys.  Anyone know of a good one we can get our hands on?  Thanks for your help, Christy Hicks
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« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2006, 10:21:04 PM »

If you're changing the trans, why not go with the more modern V730?  Then you get one more shift split.  What I mean is the VS2-8 is a two speed with an input overdrive unit.  So the shifting is 1st torque converter, 2nd lockup, ovedrive lockup.  And no control over the gears (usually just has a R-N-D toggle switch for a shifter).  But with the V730 you get 1st torque converter, 2nd torque converter, 2nd lockup, 3rd lockup.  My shifter is like a cars with R-N-3-2-1.  So I can pull it to 2nd to hold down a hill, or even into 1st where I can get torque converter lockup over 15mph.  Can't do that with the VS2-8, which also hasn't been made in many years, and I'd be surprised if any were still in commercial service.  But the V730 and its' electronic cousin the V731 are still being used in great numbers today.  But-you'll do it your way.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
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« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2006, 11:30:14 PM »

I agree with Tom. I've driven both, and prefer the V-730. Christy, don't you already have this trans. in your coach? I know you've been having shifter issues... but you can fix those.

Now, The VS2-8 is often noted for being easy on the revs. (and MPG) and it's true. The OD on it is huge. BUT, it's a "flats-only" setup and will get bogged down climbing hills of any size. Going down those same hills could kill you if you don't have a Jake on it, because the thing upshifts at a specific rpm (although I've heard you can defeat this). I can point you to a LOT of info on both trannies... and the "old guards" that swear by their Spicers (which I still LOVE to drive, BTW). Each has its pros and cons to be sure.

But I really think the V-730 is the better auto tranny... more modern and more bulletproof. Just get used to driving it slower and enjoy the scenery.

Tom... are you sure that first locks up?? I thought the V-730 only locks up in 2nd and 3rd. Boy I wish it would lockup whilst climbing up Vail Pass & Ike Tunnel at 20mph in first. Heat city.

Brian Brown
4108-216
4106-1175 (trying to part with her)
Longmont, CO
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Brian Brown
4108-216 w/ V730
Longmont, CO
Christyhicks
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« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2006, 04:00:23 AM »

Our transmission is a VH, which I'm told will self-destruct w/the hp & torque of an 8v71 engine.† We do not have a shifter at all, so thought with the VS2-8, we could do a simle swap.† This is for TempBus, who only weighs 27,000 lbs and in the last 5000 miles so far, it has handled every hill we've hit pretty well, and will run 70+ mph on the flats.†

If the VH does this well, wouldn't the VS2-8 be simliar? Huh† We know the VH has been there for 5000 miles, and if the engine indeed has the 20,000 miles as we were told (and she sure acts like this is true), it's likely been there for those 20,000 miles also.† We know the bus was converted in 1988 by Sundance coach, but we don't know at this time whether the transmission was installed then, or if† it was changed when the engine was, or what.†

Our reverse problem is likely a bad switch or solenoid, but likely not the transmission, from what we've been told.†

On our dash we have a switch for forward, neutral, or reverse.† That toggle switch energizes solenoids, which shift via an air cylinder.† Larry swears that he saw a little smoke escape that switch the first time it acted up, and it is only done it like twice since, so we're going to start with a new toggle switch.† The next time it does it, we'll do a little trouble shooting and see whether we've got a bad solenoid or dirty air cylinder.† Larry thinks it just wasn't traveling far enough, but we were so hot and tired we didn't trouble shoot it, and then the next morning, it hit every single time, wouldn't ya know! Wink

I understand that you can add another solenoid to the system to downshift the VS2-8 when desired.† Please keep the info coming and the debate happening, but at this point, I doubt we want to run a cable all the way to the front and install a shifter and such, HOWEVER, nothing is cast in stone at this point.† Christy
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« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2006, 06:39:28 AM »

Christy, are you SURE you have a VH? Who told you this? That's an antiquated transit tranny, 2 speeds. I have a hard time believing someone would shoehorn one of those relics in your conversion and then sell it to you as a V730. The ad for your bus states as such: http://www.gmbusguy.com/1966pd4107.htm

Take a pic of your tranny and post it here, please, so we can help you get to the bottom of this.

Brian Brown
4108-216
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Brian Brown
4108-216 w/ V730
Longmont, CO
TomC
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« Reply #5 on: June 23, 2006, 06:52:57 AM »

Christy- you can run a cable for the shifter on a V730, but you can also use a Bennet elec shifter that would still involve running the multi wire cable, but that's alot easier since the cable should be relatively straight, compared to what you could do with a multi wire cable.

Brian- on the V730, you can get 1st lock up on decelleration-for jake going down a steep hill when the shifter is in 1st.  I have an air throttle with an air operated transmission throttle sensor.  I don't know if this is just a flook with my trans, but when I'm going up a long grade, I manually shift to 2nd (at about 45), then when it slows more and the trans slips into torque converter (can feel it) I can then pull it down to 1st where it revvs up towards the governor.  When it is wound out pretty good, I just slowly pull up on the go pedal about an inch and you can feel it "bump" into torque converter again.  If that doesn't work on yours, what I'm going to do is put a dump solenoid inline with the throttle sensor.  So long as you can make the transmission think it is in idle position, it will lock up the torque converter, but only when the gear shift is in 1st.  Now if you have a cable operated throttle sensor, I don't know quite what to do then-maybe readjust it so it be a little looser so you would get lockup like I can.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
Dallas
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« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2006, 07:04:17 AM »

Christy, are you SURE you have a VH? Who told you this? That's an antiquated transit tranny, 2 speeds. I have a hard time believing someone would shoehorn one of those relics in your conversion and then sell it to you as a V730. The ad for your bus states as such: http://http://www.gmbusguy.com/1966pd4107.htm

Take a pic of your tranny and post it here, please, so we can help you get to the bottom of this.

Brian Brown
4108-216



Brian,
Thats a great idea.
I'm the one that advised her to replace the VH with a VS since it's a very easy swap, and the VH is only rated for 198HP @ 700Ftlbs of torque.
I was going by what she stated was on the ID plate on the transmission, and by the fact that she only has FNR on her toggle.
The VS is capable of being changed to a selectable transmission without too much trouble.
If it truly is a VH she has a disaster waiting to happen as it could self destruct at an extremely inconvenient time.
I have hopes that it's a V730, but if it isn't, the easy swap would be a VS2-8. Preferrably with the 0.72 OD and not the 0.60 OD.
It will probably require an extra oil to air cooling system, but since she's in the HVAC business, that shouldn't be hard to accomplish.
Besides, the VS is a very user friendly transmission and can be repaired by most transmission shops and is pretty much bullet proof. The V730 is a bit more complicated and not nearly as forgiving.
Parts for VS trans. are still available off the shelf and not that hard to find. Besides, there are lots of VS transmissions laying around for low prices.

Dallas
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« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2006, 08:16:29 AM »

I manually shift to 2nd (at about 45), then when it slows more and the trans slips into torque converter (can feel it) I can then pull it down to 1st where it revvs up towards the governor.  When it is wound out pretty good, I just slowly pull up on the go pedal about an inch and you can feel it "bump" into torque converter again. 
Tom, now that you mention it, I'm almost positive I had this happen to me the second time I took the Buff down into Palo Duro Canyon in TX... 10% grade and major switchbacks. The first time I did it, I was in 1st selected and had the Jake going and still had to brake at every corner. The second time, though, I had shifted from second to first and never had to touch the brake again. It was awesome. It must have been locked up!

I'll try your advice next time I'm going up a grade. It would be great indeed if we could get these things to positively lockup via a solenoid or something.  Thanks for the tips!

Besides, the VS is a very user friendly transmission and can be repaired by most transmission shops and is pretty much bullet proof. The V730 is a bit more complicated and not nearly as forgiving.
Parts for VS trans. are still available off the shelf and not that hard to find. Besides, there are lots of VS transmissions laying around for low prices.
Dallas, I see now where the confusion may have come from. I hope to heck she doesn't have the VH for the kind of $ they paid for the conversion.

A lot of folks swear by the VS's and I can't fault them, when they get better MPG than a stick. With the v-drive coaches, we're left with very few choices of powerplants and trannies, so we have to make hard choices. Depending on one's lifestyle, driving locations, and preferences: going 80mph on the flats of the midwest vs. going up and down RockyTop, city driving vs. interstates, superslabs or hilly campsites, etc.

Thanks!
Brian Brown
4108-216

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Brian Brown
4108-216 w/ V730
Longmont, CO
Christyhicks
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« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2006, 09:24:50 AM »

Well, I read the tag on the transmission myself. .† and it did say VH.† It was hard to read around the crap in the way, and I was wearing Larry's glasses at the time Wink, but I did clearly see a VH, so I'm thinking that pretty much seals the deal, doesn't it?† †I don't mind taking pics of it and posting them, but I'll have to find a program to shrink them to get them to post.† Let me see what I can do.

The owner of the bus simply went by what people told him.† He knew nothing about busses, or most of the components inside.† He couldn't decide if the genny was a 8 kw or a 10 kw, advertised the bus as having an Espar, when in fact, it had a Webasto.† On the other hand, we didn't pay quite as much as it was listed, and we are very pleased with the amount of bus we got for the money.† We actually researched every bus for sale on every website we could before flying down, and the quality of the conversion package is what convinced us to buy.† I've seen quite a few conversions and have seen a million pics of them, and the woodwork is seldom nicer than in this one.† With the air leveling system, the 10KW genny, the Webasto hot water/pre heat, the installation of the caps on front and back, and the quality of the woodwork, well, we felt like it was worth the money.†

We have no doubt that the engine has very few miles on it. . . you barely hit the starter and she fires and doesn't smoke, and she doesn't burn oil either.† Larry doesn't even start that fast and he smokes plenty! Wink† Even the transmission issue looks to be minor. . . the day we test drove it, it did the same thing and lubricating the linkage solved it that day, but the seller knocked $500 off the price just in case it caused a problem again.† Heck, even the 1988 model fridge still cools enough to freeze your food if you don't watch out.† Overall, we think the bus was well worth what we paid, based on comparable units for sale.† We just like to make everything as nice as possible, and can't buy anything without fixing it up a little. . .just not in our nature.† Again, it's a disease.† Course, I don't have to explain that to you guys, do I?† †Grin† Christy Hicks†

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« Reply #9 on: June 23, 2006, 10:12:45 AM »

Hey Christy:

You can send the pic(s) to me at sub AT archtex DOT com (cryptic email to keep the spammers at bay) and I can shrink 'em.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to rag on your conversion. It does sound very nice. If it truly is a VH, though, Dallas is right... you will want another tranny. The VH is jsut not intended for highway service and mating to an 8V71. You can pick up a takout VS2-8 from Nimco or another transit parts source... for maybe $1000... or a V-730 for maybe $500 more. Shipping will be a nighmare ($$$), but can be done. It might also be a roadtrip for you, and just throw it in one of the bays... as long as your VH holds up, anyways.  Wink

You'll have some work to do to get an air or cable shifter that works with the new tranny. You might have some bulkhead work to do, too. And see what kind of cooling setup you have.

Ah, the joys of this busnut business...    I've heard from those that own boats that BOAT should mean "Break Out Another Thousand". So what is BUS?  Grin

bb
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Brian Brown
4108-216 w/ V730
Longmont, CO
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« Reply #10 on: June 23, 2006, 05:13:58 PM »

Hi Christy & Folks:

I am jumping into this conversation, late in the game, and although I glanced at the posts, I think I have a feel for the conversation.

Christy, although the heavy back plate on the rear of the Trans. says VH, I suspect that you have a VS, as you have a Highway Coach.

On the side of the trans., unless it was removed, there should be a plate riveted on by Allison when built.  If still there, it will list the model and serial numbers of the Trans.

The best way to tell for sure is by observing the outside of the Trans, if the Plate is missing!!!

How many electric Solenoids are on top of the trans???

If you would E-Mail me pics. of the trans, or call me Monday, We can hopefully tell you what trans you have.

I am on the Board of Directors of a Youth Drum & Bugle Corps. and their buses stay here.

Their 4905 with a VS-2-8 started dragging its butt on take off.  This week we installed new clutch packs and seals and as it left the yard to fuel up, I knew they once again had a Rocket Ship.

The Transportation Manager is now concerned that the 4905 will run away from the 3 MC-9's that the Corps. owns.  And it WIll!!!

Happy & SAFE!! Bussin' to ALL.

LUKE at US COACH
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Christyhicks
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« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2006, 05:41:42 AM »

I will look at the Transmission agan, but the plate I was reading was on the side and it looked original.  We have three solenoids on it, I do know that.  I will spend more time on it today & report back.  Christy
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Barn Owl
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« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2006, 08:46:28 PM »

When I started looking for a bus I wanted a manual shift. My father who owns two 4106s with the 4 speed said that I would, after a few trips up and down my driveway, tear the clutch out of it (I have to do some very fancy maneuvering to turn it around on this hill I live on.) Well I bought one with the V730 and would never consider the manual now. I think if you had to install a V730 you would be very happy with it. There are many shifter options available with this transmission, just do the homework. My shifter is beside the right side of the seat and I do not like that location. My pants get caught on the T-handle and I am worried that one day I will tear it off if I am not careful. Here is a site I like to resize pictures to post on this bb: http://www.resize2mail.com/ I found it in another post, probably in the jump start area. Easy and quick.

http://www.resize2mail.com/
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« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2006, 09:24:49 PM »

Barn Owl-take the T handle off and just put a round knob at the end-is what I have and never catch my pants (course I'm usually wearing shorts).  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
Dallas
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« Reply #14 on: June 26, 2006, 11:49:27 AM »

I will look at the Transmission agan, but the plate I was reading was on the side and it looked original.  We have three solenoids on it, I do know that.  I will spend more time on it today & report back.  Christy

Christy Sent me the Photos of her transmission and I've resized them and will upload them here.
You'll see that in picture #018 the tag shows the VH.

I think if it looks like a duck and shifts like a duck, it's probably a VH
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Dallas
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« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2006, 11:51:14 AM »

Heres more
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Dallas
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« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2006, 11:54:21 AM »

and more
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Dallas
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« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2006, 11:57:22 AM »

And One More
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Buffalo SpaceShip
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« Reply #18 on: June 26, 2006, 12:20:12 PM »

Well, if it IS a VH, it sure don't look much different than a VS2-8. I'm attaching a pic of that tranny that was in my old Fishbowl conversion.

It's clearly NOT a V-730, that's for sure.

Any Allison experts out there...

bb

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Brian Brown
4108-216 w/ V730
Longmont, CO
Dallas
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« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2006, 12:43:20 PM »

The VH, VS1 and VS2 all used the same case, unfortunately.
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« Reply #20 on: June 26, 2006, 01:25:49 PM »

The VH, VS1 and VS2 all used the same case, unfortunately.
Ack! Then I guess you're right, Dallas... if it says VH on the case, it probably is one.

On the upside, since the case is the same, the installation of a VS2-8 should be pretty simple, Christy. I would make sure that your cooling is addressed by using the proper oil-to-coolant cooler. The transits didn't spend much time up at speed, so yours may not have a large enough cooler for highway use and/or for the VS2-8. Check every hose diameter to a stock VS2-8 setup (like the Fishbowls or rare 4905) to insure adequate oil flow.

And your shifting mechanism looks cludged-together and much too exposed. It's no wonder you've had issues with it.

As suggested, do to to find the higher OD VS2-8... otherwise you might find a hill it simply won't climb being so high-geared. And hopefully you have no desires to go the 110mph that the 0.60 OD would give you.  Tongue

Lots of folks swear by these VS2-8's. Don Schwanke had one in his 4905 and also recalled fondly a 4106/VS2-8 coach that he could run at 80mph all day and get something like 11mpg. Just be careful in the hills!

bb
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Brian Brown
4108-216 w/ V730
Longmont, CO
Christyhicks
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« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2006, 03:43:33 PM »

Ok, so I'm both vindicated Cheesy, AND disappointed †Cry. †ha ha

Now, time to answer some questions and help me wrap my brain about what's been bothering me. †

Why has this transmission not crapped sooner? †Is that an oil cooler on the side of it Dallas? †Or, what is visible on the pics I sent you. . .we thought it was an oild cooler, since it had water lines and hydraulic lines to it, but are not sure. †

We purhcased this bus and have put about 5,000 miles on it since we purchased it, most of those highway miles. . in fact, almost all of them highway miles. †If it is true that the motor has approximately 20,000 miles on it, based on color match and stuff. . .general appearance of the transmission, it sure looks like it's been there at least that long, if not longer. †The bus was converted in 1988, Sundance conversions, very nice quality. . .and still in really good shape 20 yrs later.

It is likely, based on common sense, that at the time and after the conversion, there would have to be one of two situations. . .either the oil cooler (if it is one) made the difference, or it had something other than a VH transmission. †I just don't think you'd get almost 20 years on a VH, based on what everyone is saying. †

Of course, it is possible that someone could have slipped a VH in because the VS or 730 failed, except the transmission sure didn't look like someone replaced it right before we bought it. . .too much gunk on it and the bolts and stuff. †It's possible, but I just don't think it makes sense. †The bus was obviously used not too long before we purchased it, and it certainly wasn't detailed or doctored up for sale, in fact, it pretty much looked like he just quit using it. †The sheets were on the bed, towels in the cabinet, cleaning supplies. . .misc hardware items, toilet paper, blue stuff. . . pretty much it looked like they unpacked it after their last trip and left it in Florida, flying back to Detroit (which is what he indicated). †It was fairly clean, but clearly not CLEAN, if you understand what I mean.

The seller had put in an engine, 8V71, caps on the front and back, new air bags, bushings, etc. †. . . and he had the bus serviced before we purchased it, and from the looks of the oil and such, I believe him. †I think we even have an invoice somewhere around. . . like $500 or 700 for the service I think if I remember clearly. †So, if the guy was willing to maintain the unit with whatever it needed, even fix it up, and even had the oil change and stuff done before selling, why would he slip in a useless transmission? †And, he was using the unit himself, even taking it to Arcadia for the last bus gathering, (hoping to sell it), driving it from Detroit to Florida. †I suppose it is possible that it could have crapped on him in Florida and he had them put any old transmission in it to sell it, but it just doesn't fit his behavior and also, the repair shop would have had to have known that was not a good combination, so they would have had to be in on it too. †I'm sorry, but although I know it is possible, I just don't think it makes much sense. †

so, here are my questions, and keep in mind, I am NOT a mechanic in even the slightest sense, which is why I'm asking to start with:
I understand that the VH is an inner-city transmission, and am I right that the big concern is overstressing it, or overheating it?
Would the oil cooler, if it is an oil cooler, make a difference?

If the VH and VS are the same, identical sized, etc, is there any chance that someone would have swapped cases or is this even possible? †
I'm concerned that the VS2-8 is no longer produced, but I'm looking at the work involved to change it also, and the other question that comes to mind: †I've been told that the 730 will give us less fuel efficiency and a little less speed. . .what can we really expect in terms of numbers, on a bus that currently gets 7 mpg and runs 70+ if you want it to. †It also seems to climb hills fine, although we haven't climbed any extremely steep, long hills. †

So, if you had to change this transmission, knowing that you have two basic options, a VS2-8, and a 730, AND knowing that the VS-8 would be a straight in and out with maybe $1000-1500 invested, and that the 730 would be about $500-700 higher and would require installing a shifter, what would you do? †You have to keep in mind, we will own this bus for another year or two at the most (we hope), so that complicates the problem. †

Now, I'm sure Larry already knows what he wants to do, but I'd like to know if, when weighing all the information, i come up with the same plan he does, and he also would like as much information as possible himself, as he has little experience with these transmissions, especially in a bus application. †OK, give it to me! †Christy Hicks
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« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2006, 04:21:39 PM »

Heck-if you're only keeping it for another couple of years, maybe the V730 would be too much.  But consider the resale value between the two.  Having the V730 may make the difference in being able to sell it readily or not.  Personally, the V730 is the way to go.  There is a 4.11 rear end and also a 3.90 (I think) rear end that could be changed out to give better top end.  Personally, I have a V730 in my bus now, have riden in buses with the VS transmission, and much prefer the performance of the V730.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
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« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2006, 05:18:50 PM »

I just veiwed Brians old FB with the VS2-8 and my VH9 and looked at the pictures posted I would have to say it is a VH9  Luke asked how many valves are on the top of the tranny and the VH9  only has the one and the VS2-8 has two now I didn't walk to the third bus with a V730 but we all can easlily see it's a bigger unit.  Smiley
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68 5303 Fishbowl 40' x 102"
6V71  V730 4:10
Dallas
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« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2006, 05:40:25 PM »

OK Christy, Here goes nothin'

I'm not an expert on these transmissions or swaps. I'm only going by personal preference and by observation and personal experience.



CH>>>so, here are my questions, and keep in mind, I am NOT a mechanic in even the slightest sense, which is why I'm asking to start with:
I understand that the VH is an inner-city transmission, and am I right that the big concern is overstressing it, or overheating it?
Would the oil cooler, if it is an oil cooler, make a difference?<<<CH
I believe some of the biggest concerns with the VH are that it was never built to put behind an 8V71. That means it has probably got a smaller input shaft, lighter gears, lighter pumps, lighter pinion and bevel gears, etc. The oil cooler that you mentioned is an oil/coolant heat exchanger.
Since all of the parts are generally lighter and built for stop and go traffic with smaller engines, it can't be expected to do the same job with up to 100 more horsepower for very long. That's like swapping the hydrostatic drive out of a 777IH tractor and putting it in a 1080 Case tractor. Shear power will rip it to pieces. One thing, the oil cooler is probably pretty robust since the VH spent most of it's life in hydrualic mode as a transit coach. It still couldn't hurt to supplement anything you put in there with the biggest auxiliary cooler possible.


CH>>If the VH and VS are the same, identical sized, etc, is there any chance that someone would have swapped cases or is this even possible? <<CH
From looking at the diagrams and pictures of the internals, I don't think someone could have physically gotten that particular swap made, but then you would have to ask someone who has worked on the VH and VS side by side. Call Luke! or don Fairchild.
CH>>I'm concerned that the VS2-8 is no longer produced, but I'm looking at the work involved to change it also, and the other question that comes to mind:  I've been told that the 730 will give us less fuel efficiency and a little less speed. . .what can we really expect in terms of numbers, on a bus that currently gets 7 mpg and runs 70+ if you want it to.  It also seems to climb hills fine, although we haven't climbed any extremely steep, long hills.<<CH
Even though the VS is no longer produced, I don't think the V730 is either. The V730 probably has better parts availability, but the VS will be a lot easier swap, since you will still be using the original Bennet Air shifter and electrical connections. Whether you choose the 730 or the VS you'll likely see somewhat better fuel mileage over the VH since you won't be running against the governor all the time. I'm not sure what the OD on the 730 is, but you will still be able to do freeway speeds and be able to climb more efficiently. The VS you will want is the newer one with the 0.72 OD to give you better highway speed and still have good hill climbing capabilities. Whatever transmission you choose, either will keep you in the power band of the engine much better than the VS  

CH>>So, if you had to change this transmission, knowing that you have two basic options, a VS2-8, and a 730, AND knowing that the VS-8 would be a straight in and out with maybe $1000-1500 invested, and that the 730 would be about $500-700 higher and would require installing a shifter, what would you do?  You have to keep in mind, we will own this bus for another year or two at the most (we hope), so that complicates the problem.<<CH
Taking into account my prefernces, and those of others, like Tom who has a lot more experience with the V730, I think I would still lean toward the VS2-8 swap for cost and ease of replacement of the VH. I understand that the V730 swap will probably bring a better resale in the future, but I can't see that you would earn any of your investment back through use in the meantime. Remember, the V730 will require more sweat equity than the VS2-8, plus if you want to set the VS up to shift selectively, I or others can give you the diagrams to do that.  

CH>>Now, I'm sure Larry already knows what he wants to do, but I'd like to know if, when weighing all the information, i come up with the same plan he does, and he also would like as much information as possible himself, as he has little experience with these transmissions, especially in a bus application.  OK, give it to me!  Christy Hicks<<CH
In the end, It all boils down to what you and Larry want this transmission swap to do for you. I've given you all the predjudicial information I can from both sides of the topic, essentially it's up to you guys to decide. Good Luck!

If you decide to go with the VS swap, I can send scans of the different diagrams you'll need and any other information I have available. I would offer the same for the V730, but my book has pretty much seen the end of it's life span and is missing a few of it's essential parts.

Dallas
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« Reply #25 on: June 26, 2006, 06:05:10 PM »

Christy, there's definitely an oil cooler in yours if there's coolant and tranny oil lines running to it. If you go on any more trips with it, you really should have an oil temp gauge on the tranny sump to know exactly how hot she's running. If I didn't have a temp guage on my V730, I would have ruined it, because it warned me when the cooler fan went out.

And who knows... maybe the VH will "keep on tickin'" if you don't go out of your way to over-stress it. Ratings aside, transit service is generally tougher on the transmission internals with the starting, stopping, and shifting. Highway service just generates a lot of heat mostly.

 Is there a tach on your coach? I suspect that a VH will be pulling some serious revs. at highway speeds, which puts more stress on the tranny AND engine. The only saving grace is your diff. is a 4-1/8, a fairly high ratio (higer than the 4905s even). The transits they put the VH's into were geared much higher... between 5 and 6.

The VS will go into your coach much easier than the V730... no shifter, no extra bulkhead mods... maybe no cooler mods, either, if yours is sized adequately. Since it's a temporary coach, maybe you shouldn't go throwing a lot of cash into it. But I do worry about un-modified VS's when it comes to hills, because they WILL upshift on you going down a grade. If you have Jakes, it helps, but not if the roads become too twisty... you'll still be in the wrong gear, standing on the service brakes too often when the Jakes cease to be effective due to engine speed.

The V-730 shifts a lot nicer, will hold itself in a gear range, and has more pep driving around town and through campsites. But, as you know, it will burn more fuel at the same speed because it's lower-geared. You'll still get better mileage with the V730 than your VH9. I get almost 8mpg at 70mph with my 4108/V730 (and N65 injectors even). And I suspect a VS2-8 could get over 10mpg at the same speed!

If it were mine, first I'd install a tach and tranny oil temp gauge and do some driving. If you want to stick with the VH9 for awhile, I'd avoid towing anything, that's for sure.

Hope this helps,
Brian
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« Reply #26 on: June 27, 2006, 01:09:50 AM »

Brian,

I have wanted to put a transmission temperature gauge on my V730. Can you tell me where yours is installed into the tranny and how is it done? What type of gauge and sender do you have? I would love to see photos if you have any.

Thanks,
Barn Owl
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« Reply #27 on: June 27, 2006, 09:19:00 AM »

Barn Owl,

I have two senders, one post-converter and one post- cooler (I have a big aftermarket oil-to-air cooler instead of a stock coolant-to-oil cooler). I can select which sender I'm receiving the signal from. I also have a sender from the engine oil to measure its temp. on the same gauge, and one spare position to mount one more sender somewhere.

You'll also see the alarmastat that turns on the cooler fan at 180deg.

The previous owner did all of this work, so I can't claim credit for it. But it's a pretty slick setup.

HTH,
Brian
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« Reply #28 on: June 27, 2006, 11:30:35 AM »

well, so, started checking on a price on the V730, and it looks like the tranny, torque converter, shifter cable, dogbone, etc., would probably run close to $3000 by the time we are done, buying from I-44 Bus Sales. .  does this sound high to you, or not?  Christy Hicks
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« Reply #29 on: June 27, 2006, 12:55:08 PM »

When we still had our 4106 I gave a lot of thought to changing to an automatic.  Problem with the V730 is loss of mpg to the tune of 1-2 miles per gallon.  Finally decided on the VS-6 (not Cool as the overdrive is .8:1 or gives slightly lower rpms at a given speed.  The .72 is usable but will down shift to often.  The .6 is really only good for down hill driving.

The VS-6 will handle either the 8V71 or V92 with no problems.

BTW I never did anything.  Sold the bus.
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« Reply #30 on: June 27, 2006, 01:15:40 PM »

When we still had our 4106 I gave a lot of thought to changing to an automatic.  Problem with the V730 is loss of mpg to the tune of 1-2 miles per gallon.  Finally decided on the VS-6 (not Cool as the overdrive is .8:1 or gives slightly lower rpms at a given speed.  The .72 is usable but will down shift to often.  The .6 is really only good for down hill driving.

The VS-6 will handle either the 8V71 or V92 with no problems.

BTW I never did anything.  Sold the bus.

The VS2-6 is not built for the 8V71 or the V92 series.
It's max input torque and horse power are the same as the VH= 198 HP and 600Ft Lbs torque @ 2100 RPM
The VS2-8 is rated at 259HP and 750Ft LbsTorque at 2100RPM.

By the way, that is HP at the flywheel after all other loads have been deducted.

Dallas
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« Reply #31 on: June 27, 2006, 02:07:12 PM »



Go Dallas Go. You're almost there!
When we still had our 4106 I gave a lot of thought to changing to an automatic.† Problem with the V730 is loss of mpg to the tune of 1-2 miles per gallon.† Finally decided on the VS-6 (not Cool as the overdrive is .8:1 or gives slightly lower rpms at a given speed.† The .72 is usable but will down shift to often.† The .6 is really only good for down hill driving.

The VS-6 will handle either the 8V71 or V92 with no problems.

BTW I never did anything.† Sold the bus.

The VS2-6 is not built for the 8V71 or the V92 series.
It's max input torque and horse power are the same as the VH= 198 HP and 600Ft Lbs torque @ 2100 RPM
The VS2-8 is rated at 259HP and 750Ft LbsTorque at 2100RPM.

By the way, that is HP at the flywheel after all other loads have been deducted.

Dallas
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« Reply #32 on: June 27, 2006, 06:57:06 PM »

Christy have you checked with Jefferson bus in okc,I have dealt with them before and was very satisfied and they were reasonable,at least you would have somewhere to compare   Mike
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« Reply #33 on: June 27, 2006, 07:01:26 PM »

Yeah, we checked with Jefferson, but they didn't have any VS2-8s or 730s.† We are pretty much thinking we'll need to go to the 730, because Larry does not like the lack of control and downshifting on the VS2 Undecided.† We're still going over details and learning, but at least that's the direction it's looking.† We checked I-44 bus sales also, and they are pretty high.† So, I may be running a new post called: NEED A 730† Wink, ha ha.† Christy
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« Reply #34 on: June 27, 2006, 07:06:23 PM »

Nimco lists a V-730 for $1000. Hard to beat that... http://www.nimcobus.com/catalog/rts_page1.shtml

Good luck,
Brian
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« Reply #35 on: June 29, 2006, 07:10:13 PM »

Well, the decision is made.† . we both agree (yaaaaayy Cheesy), we're going with a VS2-8 as soon as we can find a good deal on one.† Dallas has been a wonderful help with explanations and tips and so have several other guys who have contributed to the discussion.† Thanks to everyone who attempted to educate me with Transmission 101 classes!† †Wink

We're actually excited about possibly getting better gas mileage too, even though we were satisfied with the 7mpg we've achieved consistently so far. I just happened to keep track of the fuel we've purchased, the approximate hours of genset usage and† the miles we've driven (I know that just surprises you all), so it will be interesting to compare past mileage to mileage after we put in the VS2-8.†

We're looking forward to the long weekend and hope that everyone else is too! Thanks again to all, Christy HIcks
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« Reply #36 on: June 29, 2006, 08:50:41 PM »

christy

i'm ray with the littlehouse on wheels, an mc8 '77, but i also have '72 portland org. city trans. flex. with a 8v71dd & a vs2-8
trany i want the eng. but i have no use for the trans. i'm in the seattle wa. area. if you could use this trans. i would make
you one heck of a deal! it all works & runs till i start takeing parts off. my better half said i could give out her e-mail address
becouse i don't spell or type well enough to have one of my own. but i love to read THIS board every day? or night. so
if i can help you can post here or granmajan@yahoo.com        i hope i did this right if not some one can remove or modify
as needed

ray with the littlehouse on wheels

 
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