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Author Topic: Please help me understand the basics of walls.  (Read 3515 times)
Oregonconversion
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« on: November 20, 2008, 01:05:35 AM »

I have an MC8 and I am starting to plan my conversion.

How do I mount the plywood on the side walls?

How do I attach 2X4s to the walls, ceiling, and floor?


Thanks in advance.
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« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2008, 04:06:29 AM »

I used 1x2 firring strips on both and used self tapping sheet metal screws. The plywood is then screwed to the firring strips after you insulate. Don't forget wiring for 12v and 110.
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« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2008, 08:04:27 AM »

Planning is good

The time you spend planning will pay off in the long run.

Some say planning is for sissies cause they like to take it apart and do it over.

Proper length self tappers are the best but sometimes I use a drill for a pilot hole and then a screw.

2 by 4 is over kill and takes up precious space inside the bus.

Thin and sturdy but functional walls are the best so you keep your floor space.

Good luck keep reading and keep PLANNING

YMMV

Melbo
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« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2008, 08:19:41 AM »

I also used 1x2 fir stripping going 90 degrees to the supports-or horizontally on the walls on lengthwise on the ceiling also screwed into the steel support beams by self taping screws.  This does two things.  One, obviously it gives you a nice base to screw your wall covering to.  But more importantly, it brings you wall level out beyond the metal supports so you can spray in insulation to the level of the fir stripping and cover the steel supports.  I've seen many just insulate between the uprights, then you have the steel supports exposed to transmit either the cold or hot from outside.  I have 2.25" of sprayed in foam with 1/4" plywood on the walls and 1/8" plywood on the ceiling since it is flexible to conform to the curve of the ceiling.  I have a 40ft x 102 wide transit with big lightly tinted single pane Peninsula windows.  My bus is so well insulated that in 107 degree weather while driving, my front and back roof top A/C is enough to keep the inside at a comfortable 75 degrees.  In 25 degree weather (the coldest I've been in) my 35,000btu propane furnace will run about every half hour for about 5 minutes to keep the bus at 65 degrees.  A well insulated bus will be insurance that will pay off constantly throughout the life of the bus.  Insulate well. Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
Oregonconversion
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« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2008, 10:50:15 AM »

OK I am starting to get an idea.

How far do I want these screws to go into the metal of the sides?


I am not planning on taking off the sheet metal on the inside. Do I screw right into the sheet metal? Or do I need to hit any type of support beam or something?
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« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2008, 11:08:37 AM »

Oregonconversion the way you are planing on doing it screw into the cross braces the sheet metal on the inside will not hold screws very well     good luck
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« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2008, 04:33:29 PM »

I used 1" flush fit phillips head sheet metal screws for the walls.  Drilled a pilot hole then screwed in the screw that ends up counter sunk.   I have driven the bus over 25,000 miles and everything is still tight.  Practically everything inside my bus is mounted this way, and have not had any loosening problems.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
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« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2008, 04:47:58 PM »

Oregon; follow the rivet pattern on the inside panels and attach the plywood there the inside skin on a MCI is so thin it is not going to hold much with metal screws    have a great day
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bobofthenorth
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« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2008, 08:00:12 PM »

And don't mess around with those stupid Phillips head screws.  Come to Canuckland and import some Robertson head screws.  You won't regret it.
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Charles in SC
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« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2008, 08:08:20 PM »

I framed my walls out of 1 inch square tubing, (I was a welder in past life) and fastened the walls to that. It has worked well. Before doing any of that I drew off the walls on the floor with masking tape. My father said you should live in a house a year or so before you build it. I spent that year building other stuff such as holding tanks and trailer hitches. My father was right, I change several things about the wall locations. I set a chair in there and read a book or whatever it took to spend time hanging out in the bus getting the feel for it before I cut metal. It was time well spent.
Good luck!
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Oregonconversion
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« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2008, 09:38:03 PM »

ok so 1" screws with a pilot drilled first. Follow the rivets. Sounds very simple.

What do you use around the windows to make it look nice?
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« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2008, 04:03:56 AM »

Your Imagination!

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BG6
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« Reply #12 on: November 25, 2008, 02:52:27 PM »

I have an MC8 and I am starting to plan my conversion.

How do I mount the plywood on the side walls?

How do I attach 2X4s to the walls, ceiling, and floor?


Thanks in advance.

Built-up walls are simple -- you have the wall, you have the studs inside, then if you are smart, you have some insulation in there too!

I will be building mine using METAL studs, which are both much lighter and really really hard to burn, and packing the dead space with fiberglass insulation.  I'm also mounting the studs the "thin" way, to save space, and using screws instead of nails, so that I can pull the walls out if necessary.
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Oregonconversion
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« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2009, 12:26:27 PM »

OK now that I have the plywood floor in, I am going to start working on the walls.

I am leaving the yellow metal panels on because I do not want to deal with putting all of those rivets back because I have heard that the inside panel is part of the bus structure. I am assuming that there is some fiberglass insulation inside like the ceiling. Am I right?

I plan on 1" foam insulation on the walls and then attaching plywood using the methods stated above in this thread.

One of my friends will help me using a router to make the windows rounded.

This is what I would like to see as the end result.
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« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2009, 01:28:24 PM »

Oregon, If you want that look you need to put more supports on the ceiling. Yours is rounded like mine. Most put 1/2 to 3/4 pywood on the walls and ceiling then attach the cabinets to that. I put 1/2 on the walls and reused the alumium ceiling. I rerolled the alumium ceiling and put the wall paper or contact paper up so I had bare metal to glue to. It is hard to mount the ply wood as your bus is not set up on 4 foot centers. There are no 2x4s in my bus, each to their own. I used a Kreg system and wooden cleats to mount my plywood interior walls.  Good luck  Tom Y
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Tom Yaegle
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« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2009, 01:48:47 PM »

Oregon, I also put 1/4 foam to have a thermal barrier. Each to their own. Just what I did, hope it helps.  Tom Y
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Tom Yaegle
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« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2009, 02:14:06 PM »

I think in the end you will very disappointed if you do not take the inside walls and ceiling down and insulate as much as possible.  Our first bus was not insulated.    Makes it very hard to cool in the summer and heat in the winter.  Time and money spent on insulation is the best time and money you can put into a coach.  Nothing will pay bigger dividends.

Good luck
Don 4107
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Don 4107 Eastern Washington
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Oregonconversion
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« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2009, 05:01:29 PM »

Well Don,

If I do take off those panels on the walls, how do I put them back on?

I am taking the insulation out of the ceiling and putting foam in there.



I think in the end you will very disappointed if you do not take the inside walls and ceiling down and insulate as much as possible.  Our first bus was not insulated.    Makes it very hard to cool in the summer and heat in the winter.  Time and money spent on insulation is the best time and money you can put into a coach.  Nothing will pay bigger dividends.

Good luck
Don 4107
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« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2009, 06:32:27 PM »

Oregon, Some do not put them back on. They figure the plywood will give the same support. I put mine back on, not to bad of job. I riveted them back in place, then put plywood over them. Hope this helps.  Tom Y 
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Tom Yaegle
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« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2009, 09:04:31 PM »

If you use phone books and spray foam your coach can be bullet proof.
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« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2009, 05:15:44 AM »

     When we spray foamed our MC-8, we removed the interior panels.  We did not re-install them. My thought was that if I re-installed the aluminum panels, since they were attached to the metal framework which the outside skin was attached to, they would serve as a large radiator transmitting outside temperature to the inside. We replaced them with 1/2" plywood that was attached with urethane construction adhesive as well as screws (same diameter as OEM rivets) on the same spacing as the OEM rivets (new holes).  Over 42,000 miles and no problems. Jusy our way, YMMV.  Jack
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« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2009, 10:28:50 AM »

If you do plan to reuse the panels be sure to mark them before removal.  In your case with a MCI, I would  lean toward using plywood instead.  Gives a thermal break and an excellent surface to attach other stuff. 

Mine is insulated with cut to fit foam sheet insulation.  Takes some time but easy, safe, and effective.  Select foam sheets that add up to the the required thickness.  A few cans of low expansion foam gap sealer and you are in business.  Many people fir out the space for even more insulation.  My 4107 is short on overhead clearance so it is standard thickness.

Spray in foam is good too but not always available or affordable and must be done all at one time.  Forget something, more of a problem that cut and fit.

A lot of planning needs to happen before the insulation.  Wiring is a biggy. If possible plan an accessible wire run on each side of the coach to allow future service or mods.   A floor plan taking into account window locations, skylights/vents, heating cooling, bathroom location to holding tanks ect.  Lighting too.  I am a big proponent of mocking up everything in cardboard first but then wife says I am short on imagination anyway. Grin

Good luck
Don 4107
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Don 4107 Eastern Washington
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« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2009, 10:09:15 PM »

A wall is just a floor that's been set on its side.

 Grin
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BG6
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« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2009, 10:19:12 PM »

If possible plan an accessible wire run on each side of the coach to allow future service or mods.

On my buddy's conversion, we used exposed conduit (like you use for track lighting).  It worked for him, so I'll do it on mine.  It's the fastest and easiest way to do it, there are no cutouts to worry about, and the layout can easily be changed later, if the power needs change.  It may not be as pretty as buried wiring, but I wouldn't want to try adding a couple of sockets in the living room of a coach with buried wiring.
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