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Author Topic: You were right...rust behind inner panels, what do I do to fix it?  (Read 5241 times)
ilyafish
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« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2008, 07:58:20 PM »

hmm...still no luck, must be an issue on my end
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Own: 1981 MCI MC9 w/
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Live:  Flemington, NJ

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Jriddle
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« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2008, 08:23:47 PM »

I tried both links here and had no problem getting to his site. He has a good write up and lots of pictures. It will be a lot of work but you will have a good safe structure if done right. I didn't have this problem with my MC-9. I did remove my inside panels and added bracing to help re enforce the structure for the missing inside panels. Good luck as it will be a lot of work.

John
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If It Can't Be Grown Then It Has To Be Mined
John Riddle
Wells NV
1984 MC9
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« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2008, 11:35:17 PM »

Gary LaBombard probably knows more about rust repair than anyone I know. You might check out his site and pick up his CD on rust repair.

http://www.busconverter101.com/
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bruceknee
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« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2008, 03:52:42 AM »

You are close to NJ ED, you should hook up with him, he's been where you are now
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circusboy90210
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« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2008, 04:48:17 AM »

hmm...still no luck, must be an issue on my end
I'm guessing the problem is the loose nut behind the keyboard.
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johns4104s
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« Reply #20 on: December 02, 2008, 06:14:59 AM »

I understand the braces behind the panels on my 1981 MC9 had to be cut out and replaced, Yours dont look bad to me.

They make a rust paint called hammeright, developed in the UK, were you always have rust to contend with. It sprays or paints on and when dry it breaks down the rust and somehow strengthen it better than original.

John
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luvrbus
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« Reply #21 on: December 02, 2008, 06:35:29 AM »

 We Eagle owners can tell you how to fix the rust the right way, your are wasting your time to cover it up cut it out and repair it right.Now if we could get the Prevost owners of the XL to post photos of their rust problems     

good luck
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Jeremy
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« Reply #22 on: December 02, 2008, 07:08:32 AM »

They make a rust paint called hammeright, developed in the UK, were you always have rust to contend with. It sprays or paints on and when dry it breaks down the rust and somehow strengthen it better than original.

John



It's spelt Hammerite in fact (http://www.hammerite.com/uk/). It's good stuff but I don't know that it's any better than the American products I have heard people talk about (Rustbullet & POR-15 etc). Neither of those are available here, but I've always assumed they were basically the same sort of Phosphoric Acid-based product. I'm sure no product will 'strengthen the metal better than original', but converting iron oxide (ie. rust) into Magnetite or iron phosphate is a relatively simple chemical process. Historically professional bodyshops would use neat Phosphoric Acid to do the job, but I think it is illegal in most countries now.

My bus doesn't appear to have any rust incidentally, but it seems to have better rust-prevention (rubber drain hoses from body frame etc) than is typical with your Yank stuff.

Jeremy
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busshawg
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« Reply #23 on: December 02, 2008, 07:38:50 AM »

The rust doesn't look too bad other than the bracing that is pretty much gone at the bottom. As others have mentioned I don't see a need to get mid-evil with it. It looks much like my MC-9 when I stipped it. I simply cut out the rusted areas one at a time and replaced it with new metal. The rust that apprears on you chair rails doesn't look too bad. I would clean it up and paint it. When your cleaning up some of your rusted areas you will notioce how bad the rust is. If you find the metal is simple falling apart , replace it. If the rust is coming off and you can get down to the actual metal , paint it. I realize that several people on this board have gone and replaced everything and that I'm sure is better but I don't see anything wrong with the above procedure either. You are at the stage where you can add some extra support as well. remember the spray in insulation will add lots of support as well but you must have the bones.

Have fun
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Have Fun!!
Grant
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« Reply #24 on: December 02, 2008, 05:05:04 PM »

I guess I need different glasses I thought all the pictures looked BAD.

John
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John Riddle
Wells NV
1984 MC9
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« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2008, 06:20:35 PM »

Guys,

Seriously, can't he do this without removing the outside skin?  It would mean he would not hit one side of the replacement tubing.  He would compensate for that with the diagonal braces he adds.  Not arguing for a poorly done job,now.  Honest!!
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circusboy90210
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« Reply #26 on: December 02, 2008, 06:35:14 PM »

wow only bout 70 hours tween removing outer panels & a partial frame off restore . might as well take care of that& jack the bus up & check out everything else while you have the .chance
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Jriddle
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« Reply #27 on: December 02, 2008, 07:26:21 PM »

Depending on how many supports that have to be repaired. You may need to remove a lot of rivits on the outside panels in one area you might as well remove panel and weld all the way around. The cross members in between the sections would give strength for and aft and keep bus from sagging. The weld missing on the outside might compromise the side to side strength. I'm not schooled in such things and believe the bus may be alright with one missing weld. I for one would prefere to weld all the way around.

My thoughts John
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If It Can't Be Grown Then It Has To Be Mined
John Riddle
Wells NV
1984 MC9
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« Reply #28 on: December 02, 2008, 08:22:15 PM »

Circus,

Sarcasm will not only be permitted but it will be graded as well.  Straight "A" so far.

JRiddle,

I'm with you.  Err on the side of caution.  Still, I think it is his call and he knows his sched and $ and skills.  I was wondering out loud about welding three sides and installing a brace being as strong as the original.  Hold on here....isn't the vert member a sheet metal form and doesn't it have only three sides to begin with?  I feel so vindicated!!!!!   True, right?

What has perplexed me from the start of this thread is that the guy is going to cut braces along the side and NOBODY has mentioned bracing the entire coach to prevent the thing from going swayback on him.  You never notice that happening from inside.  Once you get everything welded up you will have whatever curve, or lack thereof, that was in it at the time.  I thought people spent an entire day getting a 9 jacked and braced befor they cut braces.  Never did it though.

Unless this guy is 5'6" or so and is the "tall one" in the family, someone should have told him what the very first step in converting a 9 should be......Raise the roof 8 inches. True, right?  The second is spray foam after electricks.

John
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"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
—Pla
ilyafish
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« Reply #29 on: December 02, 2008, 11:47:20 PM »

how structural are the chair rails?  i finished the lovely task of grinding the hundreds of rivets on the drivers side today, seems the front section is the only section that really has rust, everything else is surface rust so i will just take the surface rust down with a wire brush, get some por 15 and paint it.  but yea, the pictures i sent is the only serious stuff, and its in the front 2 windows section.  i have yet to get to the other side though, that i my job for tomorrow.

judging from the rest of the bus though, besides that one section, i think i will be okay with keeping the outer panels on....if there was a ton or rust i would think differently, but so far on the drivers side there is only those pictures....literally the rest of the side as i uncovered today was almost pristine.

also, for those with mc9s.....i havent removed the front inner panel on the drivers side because there is a hole in the panel on the front bottom by the drivers console that has two wires coming through, one thick black wire, and another thick wire thats inside a flexible metal casing.  where are these wires to?  i have yet to completely uncover the roof of the bus, but it appears that the black wire has something to do with the televisions or lights in the overhead bays, not sure about the one in the metal casing.  but i basically cant remove the front inner panel without either cutting these wires or tracing them and pulling them out.  so i just want to know what they are before i do something dumb and regret it.

John, raising the roof was something i have been wanting to do, but as much as i would like to, it would take a whole different dimension to my project and with our finances, would ultimately make the difference from being able to complete it, to having a work in progress sitting for alot longer.  also being the band lived in a van for 3 months this summer with no a/c and doing a primarily midwest and southern tour....we tend to be not picky at all.  after sleeping in seats that dont lower any more than a 45 degree angle, having a bed to lay on is good enough for us, so though a raised roof is not that much of a priority.  all the ducting and electrical will be running underneath as we are using the OTR a/c. so again, a raised roof would be super nice and ideal, but i think i will have to pass unfortunately.

i am still debating on spray foam but i think i might end up going with dow foam sheets from lowes. this is just again, alot more affordable, and as much as for even a structural basis i would love to spray foam, it just is not in our budget at this time. i will be constructing the bus though in a manner where if at some point in time i did want to spray foam, it would not be a super hard task to take the bus apart.  yea i know it sounds silly and if i had a choice obviously do it now while i can, but i am working with funds provided by the band and ultimately it is what it is. (not to mention im a 21 year old kid and we only tour maybe 6-7 months a year and the rest we are home, and the band being my fulltime job, when were not touring i gotta give myself something to do, so i might as well go ahead and rip apart the coach i built just to insulate, and then put it all back together.....and in all honesty that sounds really fun to me haha)

haha yes i realize how stupid that whole last paragraph was, not to mention impractical by all means, but like i said, it gives me something to do :p

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Own: 1981 MCI MC9 w/
Veggie Oil Conversion
Live:  Flemington, NJ

1 Corinthians 9:19-22
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