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Author Topic: Engine won't start  (Read 7996 times)
Don4107
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« Reply #45 on: December 17, 2008, 09:46:50 AM »

So if Bill T. has a couple injectors opening before the rest I am guessing they are open more all the way from idle to wide open.  If so, does that unbalance the engine enough to do damage by working one or more cylinders harder? Inquiring minds and all that.

Don 4107
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« Reply #46 on: December 17, 2008, 09:55:26 AM »

Don -

Short answer:  It depends. . .  Cheesy

Longer answer:  Probably not enough to make a real difference, other than affect fuel economy and engine smoothness.


Bill -

IIRC, low idle on the 8V71 should be 500 - 550 rpm, and fast idle 950 - 1000.  Fast idle circuit should be wired such that it only works in neutral with handbrake or parking brake "on".  Releasing the brake or shifting out of neutral should immediately kill the fast idle.  Also, it's a good habit to wait for a couple of seconds after killing the fast idle to shift into gear with the automatic, allowing the engine to settle down to low idle to reduce abrupt initial engagement.

Rough shifts while rolling are not related at all to engine idle settings.  That's something entirely different.

You are correct when you say that all the injectors should be synchronized equally, from idle through governed top speed.  Conceptually similar to synchronizing multiple carburetors on a gas engine.  I, too, am guessing that running the rack will eliminate your need for the little shim you've been using, and in addition, I think you'll find that the engine runs a lot better.

Gotta get up to SJ and come by for a visit - haven't had a chance to see your '04 yet!

FWIW & HTH. . .

Smiley

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RJ Long
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« Reply #47 on: December 17, 2008, 11:11:01 AM »



This tread has me confused.  When i am cranking my coach  i look for white smoke to tell me i have fuel. no white smoke no fuel. cold crank for 5 seconds,look for white smoke crank for 5 more seconds to build heat then it usually starts.

If no white smoke time to look and see if fuel in filters and prime the beast if it won't start.

if the filters have fuel check and make sure the stop engine "rack shut off" is not stuck.

uncle ned
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4104's forever
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« Reply #48 on: December 18, 2008, 03:25:41 PM »

Hope you guys don't mind my on again off agian here!  Lots of stuff to do.  I just replaced the off on switch on my Allen ADC-5000 organ and went to radio shack to find a switch.  I found exactly one switch that was good for 16 amps. at 125 VAC.  But it had two LEDs in it.  One red and one green.  There were 3 male spades on the back and I could not understand the diagram!!  My neighbor who is a guru on anything electrical coached me and made me a diagram I could understand.  The only cheating I did was to run the neutral on the switch to ground as I was not about to try and fish a neutral all the way up from the bottom where everything is in boxes with plugs anyway.  It seemed to work fine with that tiny load to ground. 

Sorry for the distraction.  Now back to the '06 and that 871.  If there is such a thing as an electric fast idle solenoid, I don't have it.  And that would solve my problem to be able to have cold fast idle and cut back for shifting.  I would be very interested if anyone has the details of this idle device. 

Meantime I bought a Lawn-Boy mower and have been educating myself on them.  Anyone dealt with these two cycle units?  They are great for lawns with far more power and suction than the four cycle ones.  I see where some are running 50-1 synthetic oil in them.  I know you can't buy them new any more.  I will experiment with this one and see how clean I can get it to run.

If it ticks or runs, I am ready to deal with it.  Especially if it doesn't work.  That I can't stand.

It's going to be Christmas here before we know it.  I have to go and shop.  Merry Christmas to all here.  Bill t. 
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JackConrad
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« Reply #49 on: December 18, 2008, 03:46:27 PM »

Meantime I bought a Lawn-Boy mower and have been educating myself on them.  Anyone dealt with these two cycle units?  They are great for lawns with far more power and suction than the four cycle ones.  I see where some are running 50-1 synthetic oil in them.  I know you can't buy them new any more.  I will experiment with this one and see how clean I can get it to run.

Bill,
   If it runs but does not have much power, remove the exhaust balle and clean the 3 exhaust ports in the cylinder wall.  We had a lot of trouble with carboon build up in the 3 ports restricting the exhaust flow and greatly reducing power.  I think it was because my grandfather always added a "little" more oil than specd' to make sure I did not hurt it.  Jack
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« Reply #50 on: December 18, 2008, 05:10:43 PM »

Ok the mini 2 stroke motors I am very familiar with as we used them exclusivly in our RC cars. I can tell you that carbon build up is the most HP robber there is and a good oil will deter that. I recommend a couple oils that are the very best. One is VP racing oil made by VP race gas and another is Sylkelene which is very hard to find but can be found via internet and bought direct from them. I can race one of our motors for a whole year which averages 1-2 month and end of year tear down would look like it was just built! No carbon in the exhaust port and very little if any on top of the piston! Of the 2 mentioned, I would go out of my way for the sylkelene!

Ace
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« Reply #51 on: December 18, 2008, 05:14:39 PM »

I forgot to mention, I mixed the oil at 2.5 ozs to .9 per gallon of race gas. If you prefer you can use pump gas but don't use cheap regular. Go for the good stuff!
Ace
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uncle ned
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« Reply #52 on: December 18, 2008, 06:33:59 PM »



Ace

   i have ran silkeleyne four strode oil in my husaberg since new. ran many crosscountry and enduros. still runs like new and it is a 97.  11 years old
tough european bikes.

uncle ned
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« Reply #53 on: December 18, 2008, 07:37:09 PM »


Sorry for the distraction.  Now back to the '06 and that 871.  If there is such a thing as an electric fast idle solenoid, I don't have it.  And that would solve my problem to be able to have cold fast idle and cut back for shifting.  I would be very interested if anyone has the details of this idle device. 



Bill -

Does your '06 have a fast idle switch on the panel to the driver's left?  On mine, it's located just about opposite my left elbow.

Also, back on the engine, where the throttle lever is on top of the governor housing - are there two of the plunger goodies, you know, like the one used to push against the throttle lever to shut the engine down? 

If you've got the switch up front, and the double plungers on the governor housing in the back, you've got the basics for fast idle.  If that's the case, then it's just a matter of troubleshooting to find out why it's not working.

Also, if you still have the "Johnson bar" handbrake, there's another switch on that mechanism that is part of the circuitry - it's purpose is to only allow engagement of the fast idle when the parking brake is "on".  IIRC, the switch is on top of the mechanism inside the compartment under the driver.

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink
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RJ Long
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« Reply #54 on: December 18, 2008, 08:49:20 PM »

I have NOT read all the replys here sosss sorry if I repeat stuff.  Let's keep this KISS.  Did some MUI 6V92T Detroits come with the emergency shut down flapper thing?  If memory serves (always suspect!) some did.

Does the mill sound different or "funny sounding" when cranking, blowing white smoke, but not starting?  Maybe you have an older style emergency shut down flapper that has tripped shut.

Look on top of the blower.  Pretty easy to eyeball.  It will take two (2) people to reset it if you have the emergency trip manual choke type pull lever on the dash.  One to push in the knob, the other to reset the trip.

You may not have any dash knob trip but still have the emergency trip on the mill.  Older Bus Conversion.  Or, it is possible you may have some sort of electric gismo on the trip mechanism.  If it just tripped while idling, it did not hurt your mill.  HB of CJ Smiley Smiley Smiley

(I will not tell you the true story about a fire engine Detroit Diesel that tripped its emergency shut off flapper thing resulting in a chain of infortunate events that resulted in three (3) nice homes losing their roofs.  Opps!) 

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GM0406
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« Reply #55 on: December 18, 2008, 10:19:04 PM »

Ok,  Got the message on the two cyles and I will get on the internet and see if I can find this great oil.  I will get to the carbon.  Right now I got surprised yesterday by that cable that goes down to the rear wheels.  Evidently I had the rear set too low and it triggered that cable which preveneted that mower from starting!  Seems like I am running into all kinds of problems starting these days!  The Lawn-Boy lady at one repair shop told me that this cable is there to prevent you from pulling the starter if the rear wheel drive is engauged.  I guess it is engauged if the rear is lowered past a certain level!  Amazing!! 

Now I will take some pics of the 871 in the throttle area so you all can see what is there and what is not there.  I will also look tomorrow to see if I can find the switch up front and take pics of that too.  This coach has an air throttle. 

Bill T.
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CAROLINABOY
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« Reply #56 on: December 19, 2008, 07:38:29 PM »

Hey everyone just to let you all know I got the 6v92 to start now bare with me I'm not a mechanic but at the engine there is a cylinder with a small rod that comes out of it and pushes on a curved lever that is spring loaded I pushed and pulled on it and the bus fired up is this a shutdown or something like that and will it work itself out when I start driving it more or should it be replaced??
           MERRY CHRISTMAS
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« Reply #57 on: December 19, 2008, 07:42:53 PM »

Hey everyone just to let you all know I got the 6v92 to start now bare with me I'm not a mechanic but at the engine there is a cylinder with a small rod that comes out of it and pushes on a curved lever that is spring loaded I pushed and pulled on it and the bus fired up is this a shutdown or something like that and will it work itself out when I start driving it more or should it be replaced??
           MERRY CHRISTMAS

YUP! Grin  BK  Grin
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« Reply #58 on: December 19, 2008, 08:28:22 PM »

Good that you got it started. Praise the Lord!

Yes...that is the shut down lever.

About the cylinder is binding or sticking...you may have moisture in it to become ice after cooled off or it worn out.

About the first post in regard to the white smoke. In this case no fuel due to shutdown mode and the white smoke is only moisture vapor from cold cranking. However, if it were getting fuel will produce heavy & diesel fuel smell white smoke until cranking is fast enough to ignite and darker smoke. So there 2 kind of white smoke while cranking and don't ignite to run. One is white thick smoke (fuel) and other is thin white moisture vapor on a cold moist day.

So I am sorry to suggest the cranking speed is too slow from your report of white smoke. Been that you are a amateur mechanic, you could mean vapor smoke. I am learning to ask more question before I answer.

Good now that it is running and you are learning at the same time.

Sojourn for Christ, Gerald

FWIW

Sojourn for Christ, Gerald
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« Reply #59 on: December 20, 2008, 02:57:44 AM »

QUOTE "Hey everyone just to let you all know I got the 6v92 to start now bare with me I'm not a mechanic but at the engine there is a cylinder with a small rod that comes out of it and pushes on a curved lever that is spring loaded I pushed and pulled on it and the bus fired up is this a shutdown or something like that and will it work itself out when I start driving it more or should it be replaced?"QUOTE
           
Carolinaboy that is the SKINNER valve that I was trying to describe and thanks to BK he knew what I was talking about. Spray it with PB Blaster and work it a few time and it should be OK.  You can find them at a truck parts place for about $25.00.

Merry Christmas
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