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Author Topic: spin welding plastic  (Read 3382 times)
cody
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« on: December 22, 2008, 06:34:48 AM »

I'm thinking about heading back to my favorite shopping mall, Bontragers and pick up a couple of tanks, they have a bunch of tanks ranging from poop tanks already set to go to water tanks that have fittings all over them in sizes ranging from dinky to 'I've got the runs' sizes, the problem with the black ready made poop tanks is they are low and flat and wide, I'm looking for bigger tanks and to get the rectangular shape I want I'd have to go into a water type tank, what I'm wondering is if anyone knows of anyone in the elkhart area that could spin weld on the 3 inch inlet and outlets I would need, I know I can get the tanks custom made at a price of several hundred dollars but being a poor person and knowing bontagers have tanks I can get for about 50 bucks each, I'm thinking all I need to do is figure out how to get the fittings put on.  I want to put a couple of 100 gallon tanks side by side in my back bay, one for gray and one for black water and then connect them so the gray tank can be used to flush the black tank.  Any ideas?
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redbus
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« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2008, 07:08:07 AM »

Cody

You can use your wood router to spin in the fittings.
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cody
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« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2008, 07:09:17 AM »

I'm just a little concerned about how to support the fitting while it's spinning at 25K, not sure what to do about clamping it in place.
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« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2008, 07:17:24 AM »

Cody

It gets to be a problem at times on the larger holes,but I have never damaged a tank in the process. Drill the rite size hole before spinning.
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cody
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« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2008, 07:18:24 AM »

how do you clamp the fitting in the router
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« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2008, 07:20:32 AM »

It takes a special tool to hold it in place
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cody
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« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2008, 07:23:32 AM »

oh ok, thats what I've got to find then, if it was wood, I'd have a clue but unfortunately lol,,,,,,,,,
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« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2008, 08:02:14 AM »

Spinning a three inch fitting takes much more than a standard home-sized router, because of the diameter it takes a lot more horsepower. Using a small router, you'll loose speed just when you need it and the job will be compromised if it works at all.  Commercial folks use a 1hp or more router.

I've been very successful using my monster-sized Milwaukee grinder as the power source. It spins at 15,000 but since the diameter of the fitting is larger, you get about the same surface speed as with a smaller fitting at 25000.
  If you'd like to borrow the grinder and tool I made I'd be happy to send it to you as long as you
PROMISE to send it back, and pay shipping both ways.  It weighs about 20 pounds and I'm in California...
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« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2008, 08:20:25 AM »

Ok this is a process unfamiliar to me ,can any one explain the fusing process,heat,glue or cement activated by the heat of spinning?,just wanting to learn somthing new.thanks Smiley .Van
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cody
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« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2008, 08:24:50 AM »

Will my 3HP porter cable be big enough or should I use my 5HP bosch router
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« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2008, 08:41:38 AM »

Cody,

I swear!  There is absolutely no reason to "flush" your black tank.....NONE.  Drain it and whats left stays.  No harm and no "foul".  (and no pun)  I wouldn't lie to you about this shi# my man.  And never add any of that sanitizer/deoderant junk as that is only for those that are obsessed.  We won't discuss that "wand" thing for rinsing the insides....GOD!

Stacking them with the grey on top can be a challange....but can be done.  Instead install them side by side and access your grey from the top with a internal pipe that goes to the near bottom.  That way you have one less site for a problem leak.  Install an AC sump pump to transfer the water to the black tank for that important rinse.

I have seen pics of a grey tank with a hole in the center that the toilet was plumbed thru but I am sure that was a "special order" tank.

Cody, you are so very cool and helpfull.  Get away from this consideration in your design.  It is a non issue.  Also, FYI I go for months between draining my black 50 Gal tank with one using it but I use a quart of water to flush, or thereabouts.

Just MHO based on many years of experience.  You got smells?  You have inadequate venting OR a cracked vent pipe.

HTH..sincerely and still luv ya,

John
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cody
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« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2008, 08:47:29 AM »

I hadn't figured on stacking just placing them side by side with both outfeeds in the front connecting to a single drain, with a slide shutoff on each tank and one on the master drain I could control either tank, by flushing I figured to open and drain the black water tank, then close the master drain and then open the gray water drain while the black water drain was still open, that way the grey water would run into the black water tank, then open the master valve and let it all go.
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cody
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« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2008, 08:53:39 AM »

generally any smell encountered are my own fault lol, certain foods have a bad effect on me, as a matter of fact their are certain foods libby refuses to allow me to eat lol.
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« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2008, 09:16:44 AM »

  Spin welding relies on the friction created by spinning to partially melt the fitting and the tank. As soon as you stop the router the parts bond together as they cool (takes less than 1 minute).
  To install the fitting, you drill a hole of the proper size with a hole saw.  The fitting has a lip that fits in the hole you drilled. The fitting has small lugs on it that mate to the adapter that you chucked into your router.  If you are standing near the tank to do this, place something between the task at hand and your legs. The spinning may send small droplets of melted plastic flying.  Jack

PS: I have not installed any of these fittings, but, I did watch the fittings being installed in our tanks.  J
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cody
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« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2008, 09:19:27 AM »

ok, good ideas, the fittings are a particular kind?, I'm learning a lot here
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« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2008, 09:38:33 AM »

 that's great Jack thanks  Cool
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« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2008, 09:45:35 AM »

ok, good ideas, the fittings are a particular kind?, I'm learning a lot here

Fittings are the same type of plastic as the tank material.  Jack
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« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2008, 10:03:13 AM »

When it came time to install my black tank fittings, I took my tank to the local RV shop, and a fellow in the service department spun my fittings in for me.

They even supplied the fittings, and charged me about $30 per hole/fitting.

I considered doing it myself, but at that price, I didn't figure I wanted to go through a learning curve, and possibly
screw it up.

HTH

Jay
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cody
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« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2008, 10:11:52 AM »

the problem we have up here are no rv shops, this is a rural area that really hasn't evolved to the point of any shops that cater to the tourist or specialty markets, one thing that still entertains me was a call i made to the detroit diesel shop, closest one is 90 miles from here and told them I had a question about 2 strokes, the guy told me I was calling the wrong shop, that detroit isn't a 2 stroke, a 2 stroke engine is one where you mix the gas and oil like a weed eater or older moped.  I agree with them, I certainly had called the wrong shop lol.
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« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2008, 10:22:55 AM »

WHAT ! Wonder what incubator he fell outta Shocked
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« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2008, 10:30:38 AM »

Cody,

Buy your tanks at Bontragers, find an RV shop and have them spin weld them on....You're done!

I myself have one tank for black and gray, gonna stay that way. The I won't have to go through what you want to do, I'm lazy. Roll Eyes

Paul
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cody
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« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2008, 10:42:06 AM »

Thats another possibility in the elkhart area that I could do that, I'll find out better after I get there, I kinda approach things from the stand point that I want to learn how to do it too, that way if I have the fittings and another insane person wants to give it a go, I can send them the thing and they can try it too, kinda like a tool bank that we could all dip into.
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« Reply #22 on: December 22, 2008, 10:50:37 AM »

Cody, I'm kinda like you, I would rather do it myself, get the tools needed and go for it! Besides my labor is pretty cheap, just ask the wife! Roll Eyes It's the cost of the tools that gets her! Grin
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« Reply #23 on: December 22, 2008, 10:53:49 AM »

Cody,
http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=582.msg4419#msg4419  ;

Cody I have a Elkhart phone book, super yellow pages.
I could Fax or email the Plastic's page.
As for the vent try one of these .
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« Reply #24 on: December 22, 2008, 10:48:15 PM »

I spun several fittings into my tanks. Very  very simple I bought plastic plug fittings and drilled a 1/4 inch hole in the center,cut the head off of a 1/4 inch bolt and tightened it in the hole with washers & nuts. Hooked to my Sears router, it only takes seconds. Let cool a bit and unscrew the plug.  BUR
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« Reply #25 on: December 23, 2008, 01:08:38 AM »

Ednj,

I had one of those vents and it finally broke off after being up there for 5 years. It broke at the swivel, lost it on the way to TBR this year. I thought they looked neat and acted like a weather vane. Grin

For now I just put up an 2" ell to keep the rain out, not that we have any in Texas! Wink

HTH,

Paul
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« Reply #26 on: December 23, 2008, 06:34:27 PM »

Cody….As what Jack already said about the process of spin-weld. I was there too and had them added 2 more fitting while Jack having done the spin-weld on his or customer’s new tank.

I found a link that explain like what Jack said and the source for tool or have them do it for you at Mishawaka, which 12 miles west of Elkhart. You need to e-mail or call them to be confirmed that can do-it there or they refer to where it can be done locally in or near Elkhart.

SPIN WELD PROCESS

About spin-weld tool for router…you need a 3 star smooth shank bolt with head cut off and a larger hole sawed knock-out of ¾ inch thick plywood. With 2 flat washer & nuts to attach the cut-out onto the bolt threads and tightens. Chuck it on a drill press to lathe turn down the diameter until light press-fit into a spin-weld fitting. You leave a shoulder to keep it in position on the turned mantel. Now you have true centered mantel to be in balance (less vibration). Never use this same shank for other size mantel. Otherwise it can vibrate next you spin-weld.

Or you can follow what BUR suggested. My concern is getting center hole centered properly so it won’t explode at high RPM.

I spun several fittings into my tanks. Very  very simple I bought plastic plug fittings and drilled a 1/4 inch hole in the center,cut the head off of a 1/4 inch bolt and tightened it in the hole with washers & nuts. Hooked to my Sears router, it only takes seconds. Let cool a bit and unscrew the plug.  BUR



SPIN WELD DRIVING TOOLS

SPIN WELD FITTING

SPIN WELD FITTING with photos

FWIW

Sojourn for Christ, Gerald
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« Reply #27 on: December 23, 2008, 07:30:46 PM »

Cody, I got all my tanks at Mastertech Rv in elkhart they ordered the tanks and then they spun the fittings in where I Needed them. So i know they do it and they are right in Elkhart, Here is there website www.mastertechrvservices.com   Hope this helps Jason
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« Reply #28 on: December 23, 2008, 07:54:58 PM »

There you go Cody!

Thank you jmblake for the link.

Sojourn for Christ, Gerald

Merry Christmas!
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