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Author Topic: Newbee 4106  (Read 6233 times)
Madmike
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« on: December 22, 2008, 11:26:20 AM »

Hey all!

I need advice on a GMC 4106. I do not have all the specs but I do know it has a 4 speed manual trans. The bus has been in storage for the last 6 years, it has been drivin every year but does sit through the winters and is driven very little in the summer. It had her engine, trans, and a conversion done in 94 and I bet it has less than 15,000 on it since then. My father in law has offered to give me the bus with the understanding that if I sell it, I will be fair in giving him his due. This to me is a very nice offer and I have been getting my hopes up. That being said, I would not be in the possition to buy a bus, but I would like to own one for awhile. I know it had a tune up last year and the Mech said it was in good shape with one of the air bags having a slow leak. I want to drive it about 1500 miles. I can turn a wrench and I am not affraid to work but there is a huge learning curve. I want to pick up the bus in MAY in the Upper U.P. and drive it via Indy to St. Louis. I would like to know about changing the fuel filters, what to do in the event of a break down and any recommend Mech in Greenbay, Chicago, Indy and St. Louis. Any tips for driving and what I need to look out for would be great. You guys have a great community and I am comming from Apachepopup.net, so this is a very large leap forward.  Shocked Oh yea I did not say but the bus is stored in doors and out of the weather.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2008, 01:24:27 PM by Madmike » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2008, 12:46:44 PM »

Welcome to the madness! I say take your father in law up on the offer!
Goo back and use the archives of info here on the board and Either just start reading from the beginning (depending on how much time you have), or simply type in the model # or fuel filters, or road service or what ever ya want to know about and you'll find PLENTY of great info already here.

Then go up to the UP and meet up with Cody and go look the bus over. Cody can show ya "the basics" ya need to get on the road. From there make sure to take a laptop and you'll be fine even if ya have to contact us here the on board via hotel parking lot WIFI! ( I use it all the time! LOL )

And if ya need any other assistance we are always here to help! And also my contact info is always at the bottom of my posts! I grew up in INDY, and I know St. Louis well!

But the main thing is learn what ya can, and then start enjoying the bus! Be prepared, but don't plan to break down and you'll make it fine! Grin  BK  Grin
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
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« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2008, 12:53:55 PM »

I'm not sure where bouts you are or just where the bus is but I'm in the UP, west end in the baraga area, I'm sure we could probably get you rolling easily enough. Plenty of time between now and july.  A 1500 mile start up cruise is about right to make sure the engine is properly warmed up lol.
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« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2008, 12:59:52 PM »

Mike, first determine if you have "spin-on" filters or sock type, they are available at NAPA stores. Allways carry spares with you. Tires and brakes are allways a concern, so eyeball both for condition and adjustments, go to an empty parking area on sunday and practice backing and shifting, get a feel for where the corners are on the coach and practice putting it where you want it. Make it a practice of leaving extra space between you and the guy in front of you, more than you usually do, these things dont stop on a dime, get used to stopping from speed.  Other drivers will NOT respect you because of your size, just the opposite, so get into turnig lanes and so forth early to give your self time to turn and change lanes before you get there, some dummy WILL try to beat you to a point and use up your space, plan on it. Wet pavement is bad news, altho you are heavy, with air brakes, and more rubber on the road, a bus will still slide on wet,(and its scarey). Its all a mater of experience so have fun getting some.>>>Dan
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« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2008, 01:02:54 PM »

Thanks for the imput! I will keep a positive frame of mind and look to you guys to stay inspired. The bus is in Big Bay. I would love to go and get it now but I don't have a snow machine. I plan on getting there and working and driving it for 3-4 days prior to the trip, it should have a shake down prior to my arrival. I want to take it to he 500 (as every man should go to at least one). I have been reading and I am on page 14, this will keep me going until May.
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« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2008, 01:20:28 PM »

I want to take it to he 500 (as every man should go to at least one). I have been reading and I am on page 14, this will keep me going until May.

Well by the time I was 25 I had been to 19 or 22 of them I lost count! But then again around the time I was 23 I remember someone coming up to me in the infield and asking me "who one?" I sat my cooler down, and sat on it and asked "You mean it's over?" Oh those were the days! We lived less than a mile from the gates to go into the "Infield Staging Area" where everyone goes in and parks the night before the race and parties all night then races for the infield once they open the tunnel! LOL!  We were actually almost 2 miles from the fourth turn and if we stood on the house or garage roof we could see the bleachers! It was great in the spring along about late March to mid April on warm days we could hear some of the teams out at the track doing tuning and testing! Then from mid April all the way to the end of MAY we could hear them all day every day! Oh man if I could go back to those days! There would be some changes made between then and now, but I wouldn't change nothing about them days!

I remember back then once I hit High School age if it was May and you wanted to find me, I was at the track! Man I got in soooo much trouble (really not enough because I did it yr after yr, and sometimes dad would play hookie from work and go with me!) for cutting school and going to the track day after day (usually only 3 to 5 times a week during the week and all weekend long! LOL!) Grin  BK  Grin

By the way you'll do fine and just ask ANY thing that you need too!
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« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2008, 01:42:34 PM »

What a deal Mike!

Getting together with Cody is the best thing you can do!  I think the biggest learning curve is how to drive the stick.  With Cody there to show you the ropes, you'll be in great shape!  I bought my 4905 in Wisconsin, and brought it through the UP in February with no heat!  My first time driving it was coming out of Escanaba.  I made it about 2 miles before I had to give up and have my truck driver buddy take back over until we found a spot that he could show me the ropes.  I then made it all the way back to Lansing with little difficulty.  Good luck and welcome to the madness!!

Glenn
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« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2008, 04:02:22 PM »

Mike- one piece of advice, if you don't know already.  When you change the fuel filters, first run the engine so it is warm.  Then when you do change them, make sure you fill up the new filters with fresh Diesel fuel to the top so you don't loose your fuel prime.  I had one newby frantically call me cause he couldn't get the engine restarted after he changed the fuel filters and installed them dry.  There are many little nuiances you'll learn, just don't be afraid to ask questions-there is no such thing as a stupid question-just being stupid if you don't ask.  Good Luck, TomC
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« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2008, 12:51:16 AM »

*** I remember someone coming up to me in the infield and asking me "who one" ***

I slept through the ENTIRE race in '81, turn 3 - When I see you I'll tell you about the girl riding "bareback" and the old outhouses - LOL
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« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2008, 12:17:53 PM »

Mike -

The 4106 is a GREAT coach.  35' long, so it will squeeze into campsites and other tight spots the 40 & 45-footer owners only can drool over, gets relatively good fuel mileage (for a bus), has plenty of power for climbing RockyTop along with the big boys, ruggedly built with simple systems and no electronics to leave you stranded at Oh Dark Thirty.

OTOH, lots of complaints because reverse gear is "way too tall & too fast" with the manual transmission.  Actually, that gearing is fine - for revenue service when you're pulling out of a flat depot parking slot.  It's when the coach is being used as an RV is when the grumbling begins.

JD at C&J Bus Repair in Minneapolis is a good source for GM repairs in that neck of the woods.

Send me a private message (link to do so is on the left), and we'll talk more 4106 stuff, since I own one myself.

FWIW, HTH & Merry Christmas!

 Wink

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RJ Long
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Madmike
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« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2008, 07:18:09 AM »

Wow, I am so glad to get such a response! I will be asking for a ton of information from my Father in Law after the holidays. I want to make sure and have at least 3 fuel filters with me and I want to change one after we get her running and I do some practice laps up and down the road. I want to make sure I can change it even in the dark. I have been reading about fuel additives and I think it could be a good way to go. Cody you are not far from me and I would love to have you come and take a look at her, may be I could also meet you half way. I just want to make sure she is safe and able to hit the road. I know it is a good bus as it made the trip from Reno with out a problem and it does get driven every year, she does leak some oil but I think for the age it is as to be expected. Also thanks for the tips on the Fuel Filter, I would have slapped it on dry for sure. I will be printing a huge list to double check when I go up and I hope to by then have some spare parts. As for the 500 I have not paid for the spot yet.. is one parking lot funner than the others? I don't have a lot of time off so I was hoping to hit the race on my way back to St. Louis. I am very excited but I know the expense of a bus is gonig to be hard to swallow. I am also looking for a place to park this bad boy so if you know any one in the St. Louis and East to Ofallon IL please let me know. What would be a resonable gas miliage so I can start saving. I hope the price stay resonable... Ha Ha.. until summer. I will have to learn it all from filling all of the tanks, draining the wast water, putting in the oil and checking all the fluids, making the generator work, understanding the A/C system and driving. I Can't wait! I wish I was up there now, it will be like a working vacation, and week long tinker. Thanks for the info and I will continue to read read read.
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« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2008, 08:07:13 AM »

Welcome Mike,

You might want to check into getting some type of road side assistance. There are several so you need to do your homework and find one that would work for you. You can search to find more but to get you started:

Link: Any Recommendations on Road Assistance Plans?

You can expect between 6.5 to 10 mpg depending on many, many variables. The 4106 is a wonderful machine, and a good bus to cut ones teeth on.

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« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2008, 08:23:20 AM »

Mike, the fuel filters will be in pairs, my spin-ons are NAPA# 3118 and 3120. Check to see if yours are sock (messy)type.>>>Dan
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« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2008, 08:40:48 AM »

MMike,
If you need assistance in St Louis area, I can contact my PO who lived in NE St L. I believe I may still have some of his maint reciepts, as he farmed out all his maint. & upgrade work.

Take your time, be patient, go slow & enjoy the ride.

Good Luck,
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« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2009, 08:24:27 AM »

I am still checking on the filters but I hope they are the spinons. I will need to get a gas can. It is a long ride to get her so I am hoping to load up with all the things I might need. Still working on that list! I wanted to know if you can change the sign in the front of the bus? I need the demintions as I am hoping to make a sign to go in there just for fun. I have also found out the Serial number is PD41062458, if any one knows anything about this bus please let me know. I also would like to know the Fuel tank Cap and tips for cleaning.
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« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2009, 08:59:17 AM »



I wanted to know if you can change the sign in the front of the bus? I need the dimensions as I am hoping to make a sign to go in there just for fun.

I have also found out the Serial number is PD41062458, if any one knows anything about this bus please let me know.

I also would like to know the Fuel tank Cap and tips for cleaning.



Mike -

Whether or not you can change the destination signboard in the front top of the coach depends on whether or not the mechanism and glass is still up there.  I can measure mine for you later this week and let you know.

FYI - PD4106-2458 was delivered new as fleet number WN-185 in May of 1964 to Western New York Motor Lines, DBA Valley Tours, based in Batavia, NY.  Have no other info on subsequent owners, but traditionally, most charter companies keep their coaches 15 - 20 years or so before selling them off.  That is, if the companies are financially healthy.  If not, well, you can figure that out.

Stock fuel tank on the 4106 is 140 gallons, of which 115 is considered useable.  Fuel mileage is in the 7-9 mpg range, depending on how heavy your right foot is, terrain, speed, idling, etc.  There is a label inside the fuel filler door, on the side of the tank itself (to the left of the fuel filler neck), that gives the fuel capacity, if it isn't worn off.  Some coaches came with an optional 165 gallon tank, you might be one of the lucky ones to have that.  For planning purposes, and to avoid ever running out of fuel, simply plan on fueling at 500 mi. intervals.  Believe me, it is NO fun to get one of these beasts restarted after running out of fuel.  BTDT!  Plan conservatively here and you'll never have the problem.

Mike Ondecker, at the Ohio Museum of Transportation, can, for a $25 tax-deductible donation, provide you with a copy of the Final Vehicle Record on your coach.  This lists all the various items that were use in the assembly of your coach, including options, serial numbers on the engine, trans, rear axle, etc.  Very helpful.

Enjoy your new toy!

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink
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« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2009, 11:09:31 AM »

RJ,

Thanks for the information! I know it was converted in 1994 and it was a Marine Band Bus for a number of years, but getting to invision it in real action is cool. I like old stuff. Due to the route I am guessing the fuel tank will be the smaller one. I will take you advice and not drive it over 500 miles any way. I do remember the last time I saw the bus it did have a door at the top with access to the sign board so I am hoping there is a light that is still in there and I can get it to work. How much oil should I carry on the bus and how often should it be checked?
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« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2009, 12:17:31 PM »

Mike, the average is about one gal. per thousand miles + or -  per your consumtion rate. another tip: let stand, eng off for a couple of hours before checking, for better accuracy.>>>Dan
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« Reply #18 on: January 16, 2009, 01:15:20 PM »

My father in law thought the fuel tank was 200 gallons but unless they changed it I am betting it is the 165 tank. Should I run the older gas down to a 1/3 then fill up with new or just keep in topped on the way?  Also how long can you dry camp with 175 gallons of fresh water. I am planing on having 2-3 people and want to make sure I can last 4 days at indy. Also the Generator is propane, is there any thing I need to be looking for on this.  I had planned on changing the oil in the generator and cleaning the plug and filter. I wonder how much propane an hour it will use. It also has a hot water heater that needs to be installed is there any tips on what to lookout for?
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« Reply #19 on: January 16, 2009, 03:02:00 PM »

  I hope it is older (diesel) FUEL and not gas. Get in the habit of referring to what makes the engine run as diesel or fuel rather than gas. Referring to it as gas can cause severe problems due to a misunderstanding. Our policy is never run the fuel below 1/4 tank (you don't want to have to prime that big engine).
   As far as time dry camping, this will vary, but to give you an idea, my wife and I can go 10 days on 100 gallon of water. That is in part by being very conservative on amount of water used when showering (do you know what a "sailor shower" is?)
    Propane generators usually run very clean and are typically very easy on plugs. I would change oil & oil filter.  I have not used a propane generator and therefore cannot give you an answer about LP consumption of a generator.  Jack
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« Reply #20 on: January 16, 2009, 04:07:24 PM »

MM,

I will second Jacks comments.  Gen plug should be fine....and there should be 2 of them.  Change the oil.

I had a bad experience with oil.  I once charged up the engine with new oil after replacing all my bearings.  I then put the RV into storage and added a quart of Marvel's  Mystery Oil,  really good stuff, and you can trust me on that.  I started the engine twice in 5 years and then drove it 20 miles at the 5 year mark.  Sat another four years.  At the nine year mark I started it and ran to operating temp.  For reasons I will never understand I got really worried about those bearings and lost sleep over it for months.  With the RV's front end raised high I drained the oil, not even showing any signs of being dirty, and replaced the plug.  Then I dropped the pan.  A 440 pan isn't all that heavy but this one almost slipped and it was hard to balance.  It had 2 inches of thick dark goo in the bottom of the pan and I shuddered at the thought.  Apart came the hi volume oil pump and I saw a couple of scratches that should definitley not have been there but it was OK.  I dropped a few bearings and saw that they too had "processed" something but it wasn't all that hard.  All is well and I wonder that the sludge was a fraction of an inch below the oil pickup.  The oil change interval is every so many thousand miles or annually I have read.  A mech friend told me I should have my head examined but I already knu that.  It only had 40 miles on it total.  Maybe D 2 stroke spec oil is different.

I would change out my oil and filter. 

Get a sample of you coolant in the mail for analysis.  Make sure the "correct" coolant was used.

Get and install a electric fuel pump at the tank and check valve so priming is not impossible on the road and it is a snap at filter change time in the shop.  Cody will work with you on that.  You don't need any more challenge at this point than absolutely necessary and getting it reprimed is a seriious challange without a pump.

Leave the old oil filters in place and change them after you get it home.  If there is crud in the fuel it will clog up the :first" set of filters in short order and changing them out is all you can do.  Save the old filters and cut them open to see what the filter is stopping.

Check the operation of your low oil pressure and over temp automatic engine shutdown. 

Tire air pressure at every stop for awhile and those tires are beyond use that are on the bus.  No UV cracking?  see what Cody says but plan on new rubber shortly.

Plus everything others have said and will say.  You are really fortunate to have Cody there for you.  My best wishes.

I wish I had that 4106!!! Grin Grin

John
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« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2009, 10:53:00 AM »

How much would it cost to replace an airbag. I know the left rear airbag leaks, is this a major job? Can I have the oil changed at a flying "J" or should I choose a place that I know will have the filter and oil? I will also need the tires inspected they have been in side storage but they are 5 + years old. Replacing all of them with the maintance could be a major deal on my limited budget.
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« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2009, 11:09:32 AM »

   No matter where you take the bus for an oil change, I would want to see the 40 wt. CF2 oil on hand before they drained my oil.  I don't think Flying Js have a pit for oil changes (at least, I don't remember ever seeing one, but I wasn't looking for one either).  Trucks are much easier to slid under on a creeper than a bus is.
   I have no idea about cost to replace an airbag. I would gues 2-3 hours. Depends partially on mechanics experience doing this on a bus.
   Do your tires have any fine cracks in the side walls? If not they should be OK for a couple years.
Jack
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« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2009, 11:16:23 AM »

If you are on a budget, learn to change your own oil, it will get you used to being dirty, and  and more importantly you will start to understand the bus more.  Do you really know the air bag is leaking?  Could be air beam, leveler/ whatever.  As long as the leak is slow you can decide to fix know or monitor closely. You should probably travel with at least a spare bag in case one blows.  I would probably run the bus home watching tire pressure and temps with an IR gun, every 1/2 hr at first and longer as you get to know the bus better.
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« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2009, 11:31:06 AM »

  Do you really know the air bag is leaking?  Could be air beam, leveler/ whatever.  As long as the leak is slow you can decide to fix know or monitor closely.

4106 did not use an air beam, they used a rolling lobe airbag.  I assumed you know the air bag was leaking. As was mentioned, if you are not sure the air bag is leaking, it could be the leveling valve, It is common for these to leak (usually not enough to make it unsafe to drive the bus). If it is the leveling valve, they are an easy replacement AFTER BLOCKING THE BUS BEFORE GETTING UNDER IT, a couple air lines, a couple bolts and a control link(2 more bolts).  Jack
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« Reply #25 on: February 09, 2009, 12:13:38 PM »

The airbag airs up, but when the bus is sitting it will loose air in the rear and heal over. My Father inlaw puts a bottle jack under it to level the bus when it is parked. How much oil does it hold? Maybe I could change it befor I even start it up. I will check for cracks in the tires when I go up in May. Does any one know the filter part number? I am only bringing my american set of tools and leaving the metrics behind to make space.
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« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2009, 12:30:44 PM »

        Shouldn't need any metric wrenches for OEM nuts & bolts.  If it only leaks down after sitting, it sounds like a leveling valve.
       Should hold about 7-8 gallons.  The difference between LOW & FULL on the dipstick is 1 gallon. We find that running the bus with the oil level about 1/2 the way between LOW & FULL reduces oil consumption (as opposed to trying to keep it right at the FULL mark.
       Oil filter could be a canister type or a spin on.  Either filter should be available at any big truck parts store.  Jack
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« Reply #27 on: February 10, 2009, 06:55:02 AM »

Hey Mike I learned tons reading the entire archives here.  I just started  at the beginning

http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?board=1.9480  and read on thru.  This will help alot with the general knowledge you need to get this puppy home (safely)  BTW the bus settling down after you turn it off is a drag but unless it dumps all the air immediately that is something you can deal with later.
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« Reply #28 on: June 19, 2009, 07:56:23 AM »

I have been talking to my Father in-law and he is working on getting the bus inspected for problems before I come up for the big trip. I hate to open this can of worms but I am not square on the subject and they are so expensive. The Tires on the 4106 that we have are 11R 22.5, and rears are 12R 22.5. Wouldn't they need to all be the same size? I want to replace them with some used tires as I cannot do the 2k for new ones. Can some one give me the tire sizes that would fit the bus and the most avaliable in used. The tires on the bus now have fine crack running along the rim and I am hoping to be able to drive it to the local tire shop. I will have the used one with me or shipped to the tire guys. What do you guys think.
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« Reply #29 on: June 19, 2009, 08:06:20 AM »

I emailed your father in law last weekend and left him my phone number but haven't heard from him yet.
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« Reply #30 on: June 19, 2009, 08:53:52 AM »

Cody,

He told me he was going to set somthing up over the next couple of days. That was yesterday, so I would expect him to e-mail you before the middle of next week. Again I want to thank you for taking the time to check her out. He told me he started her up on Monday and she fired right up, He explains he starts it and lets it run for a little while once a month during the time he is up there aprox 6-7 months. I know he has moved it but I dought it has gone down the road.
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« Reply #31 on: July 06, 2009, 04:24:00 PM »

My Father inlaw has sent me the paper work he has on the bus. I don't know what it all means but I could not find a build sheet. I have the Maintenance Manual, Parts Manual, and Service manual. on the front page it is New Engine written in ink 8VA-333-782 also 7087-4020 and last it reads Tag 8v710116. Does any one have a clue what this means? There are lots of notes written in the book and service contact numbers but so far that is all I have.
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« Reply #32 on: July 07, 2009, 04:03:46 AM »

on the front page it is New Engine written in ink 8VA-333-782 also 7087-4020 and last it reads Tag 8v710116. Does any one have a clue what this means?

8VA-333-782 & 7087-4020 are the numbers on the engine block. The first number is the engine serial number and the second number is the engine configuration. Not sure about the tag number, but it might be the number from the rebuild tag.  Jack
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« Reply #33 on: July 07, 2009, 09:10:57 AM »

The origninal poster made a comment about putting fuel additives in the tank, just because the fuel was old.

Don't do it. I know of a number of cases where this has done more harm than good.

No fuel additive will fix the fuel if it won't burn. The problem is that the most common fuel additive is methanol or some other alcohol. The alcohols are used because they are polar organic solvents, meaning they will absorb water and dissolve into organics (diesel). The problem is that the solubility of methanol in diesel is around 1%, so if you dump a bunch of methanol in there thinking you will dissolve the water, all you do is essentially dump a bunch of methanol into the tank which will settle out, and act like water in the fuel filter. The fuel filter should not pass un dissolved methanol. This is not myth, I have a degree in Chemical Engineering.

Run a wooden stick in the filler and pull it out to see if you have algae on the surface before adding an algaecide.

Drain a quart or two out of the tank from the bottom tap. Let it settle and see if you have water. If not fire it up and rock and roll. If you do get water, keep draining and settling a gallon or so at the time until water doesn't settle out any more.

So, if the bus will run on the fuel in the tank, let the filters do their job and trap the crud. If it won't run with the fuel in the tank (which I doubt) then drain the tank and refill.

As you drive and top off with new fuel, you are likely to stir up and redissolve sludge from the bottom of the tank. Again, that's what the fuel filters are for.
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« Reply #34 on: April 07, 2010, 09:58:55 AM »

What would be a fair price for a Clutch?
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