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Author Topic: Spray foam kits +/-  (Read 4175 times)
ilyafish
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« on: December 23, 2008, 12:13:41 PM »

Anyone who has experience with these I would like to know if they are good and worth it and if so what brand did you use.  Also how much $$ would I be looking at if i were to do my coach with spray foam kits as opposed to paying for somebody to come out.

Thanks!
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« Reply #1 on: December 23, 2008, 12:59:20 PM »

Ilya,

Go to this web site =
http://www.mcmaster.com/
Look on page =
3412
That should help with you R-value questions.
Next look at P/N
9325K73
Or P/N
9325K49
It will take 3 kits, maybe 2 if you don’t do under the floor and it’s above 80°
McMaster-Carr has a place right here in So.Brunswick, NJ. Easy pickup at will call.
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« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2008, 04:45:55 PM »

Ilya,

I would quote some of the foamers in your area. We had ours done for 1500, and this guy was a pro. You will have to get multiple quotes, talk to the guys who will actually foam, ask for recommendations (and then call the people), and when he comes and foams, make sure you have a respirator and goggles, and watch him. I think that hiring it out is the best route.

JMHO

Oh, one more thing. That foam has little airborne particles. Make sure that the door is closed, or cover the side of your bus. Yes, it will get little foam specks all over the side of your bus (maybe only if it is windy, I don't know).

Merry Christmas,

God bless,

John
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Songman
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« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2008, 05:44:15 PM »

I'll look to have my done by professionals when the time comes. Insulation is something that I place as fairly important and would rather leave it to people who know what they are doing.
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« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2008, 07:49:36 PM »

Hot foam by professional is like day and night comparing to DIY-Kit version.

First of all professional know how much to apply while fanning it on. They know how to keep from wasting the foam to keep the cost down. Been there to see it done twice. It also very messy & sticky job. Must wear a full overall and head covered with face shield.

Hot-Foam is always better than cold applied foam because it thinner to bond well while spraying and harder texture foam for stronger & less flex after about a week of full curing.

Hot-Foam require special equipments of heater & mixer & ready supply of 2-part foam chemical barrels and long 4 or 5 lines hose installed in a truck or trailer with 2 men to operate. One to keep the equipment running and the other is to apply it on.

If you go Hot-Foam route…let them know how thick you need and prep all area. Such as use light grease or trim-tape on wherever you don’t wants it to stick. The cost is about the same to DIY version. That not counting your labor.

Suggestions…Before you having it foamed…make sure you are aware that once this is foamed…it maybe too late to change wiring or conduits route or any others piping or lines to added. So now you need have all of what goes in the wall done first. 

Jack Conrad might chime in to suggest more about this subject of prep work.

FWIW

Sojourn for Christ, Gerald

Merry Christmas!
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« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2008, 09:48:25 PM »

I heard the word "respirator".  That won't keep the stuff from killing you.  In the application you need and "aspirator".  Respirators only have great filters that won't stop the poisen gas.  Aspirators us an outside purified air supply.  Maybe that is only a technical difference but!!!!!!

In all the cost analysis I have seen before the "hot foam" by pros was cheaper.  Even to doing the entire coach with foam sheets.  Not my numbers.

The REAL DEAL is that the guys that spray the stuff for a living will cut the stuff down for you for a modest price.  That is definitely something you should look into and make a firm part of the job.

2.5 cents,

John
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« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2008, 05:03:11 AM »

Thanks John,

I said Respirator (the masks with filters), because the package said it would filter that stuff. The pro (he was absolutely incredible) used a respirator too. He said that he had never heard of using outside air, as opposed to just filtering the air with a respirator. I don't know, but this guy had been doing it for many years, and was a craftsman. He had a great business, and ran a tight ship. He also had plenty of money. If he needed outside air piped to him, he sure could have afforded it. He wasn't the type to cut corners...

So there is the explanation on the respirator Grin Grin Grin.

Merry Christmas Grin Grin Grin

God bless,

John
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JackConrad
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« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2008, 05:31:07 AM »

    Since a bus is a small job (relatively speaking from the spray foam companies point of veiw) you can many times save some money by taking the bus to their place or even to a building they are foaming. 
    Cover EVERYTHING you do not want foamed!!  It is very difficult to remove once it starts to set up.  We covered all metal wall framing members with masking tape, Once the foam set up it could be ripped off, bringing the tape with it.   Jack
« Last Edit: December 24, 2008, 05:33:01 AM by JackConrad » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2008, 05:48:31 AM »

Jack,

Good point. We were able to get the guy who foamed ours, to come out. He had a thousand dollar minimum to come out. Since we were at 1500, we were good. It was really easy for us. If it would have saved us some $$$ we would have driven the bus somewhere.

Merry Christmas,

God bless,

John
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« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2008, 09:15:30 AM »

Make sure that the foamer has worked a bus before. The guy who did mine ruined the siding by putting the foam in to thick. A thin coat to insulate the metal first!!! If not the skin will expand and show ripples. Since the foam dries very quick, the skin will not have time to cool and the ripple will be there for good!!
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« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2008, 09:46:31 AM »

There are different classes of respirators that are rated to filter out noxious fumes.  The manufacturer of the product should be able to tell you what level is required.  I recently needed a respirator to work with an epoxy paint I was using for the bus shower (turned out to be a bad idea--different story).  I found the tech support people of the respirator company to be very helpful.  She even went onto the Rustoleum website to check the MSDS on the product before recommending the correct respirator.
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« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2008, 10:03:11 AM »

Check around for a place that does body shop repairs on the 18-wheeler reefer trailers.  Most of those trailers nowadays are spray foamed, and when they repair them, naturally they've got to be re-foamed.  See if you can work yourself into their schedule when they're going to have the spray foam guy there, should help save a few $$.

As Jack says, prep, prep and prep, then prep some more.

Some folk bury cables and plumbing in the walls before foaming, some prefer to hang that stuff after it's done.  You choose.  My preference is maintenance-oriented - make it easy access for later.

Do your homework, but the general consensus over the years is that having a pro do it is the better way to go.

FWIW, HTH & Merry Christmas!

 Wink
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ilyafish
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« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2008, 12:43:42 PM »

Do you guys get the floor spray foamed?  I will be pulling mine up to clean the ducts and then replacing the floor.  And yea, I will have nothing buried in the foam, I too prefer to have access to anything at anytime in the case that repair or modification is needed
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« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2008, 11:34:34 PM »

Ilya,

I typed this early on in the thread and it didn't get copied.  Sorry its late...if it is.


john grabe
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John,

I am not trying to be the  "know it all" on this....and you did not imply that that was your opinion.  Just let me clear the air on that issue.  I wish you and all others good luck and God's speed on all your adventures.  Truly!  My information isn't first hand but the result of reading a zillion posts on the subject over the past years.  Some were heart wrenching with life devastating personal health issues that were the  direct result of using this foam.  And it is the best product out there and perfectly safe if the manufacturer's cautions are observed plus one.  I will offer the following and then rest on the issue.  I very much hope others with first hand knowledge and familiarity will offer advice and I mean that even if they completely contradict me.

I read of one Knuts experience where the "team" arrived with a Hot Foam system.  They wore makeshift aspirators/ventilators made from helmets/face shields that were connected to vac hose and fed by shop vac units that they located outside during spray ops.  They also had an exhaust fan at the front door that exhausted air from the bus that was drawn in at the rear through an open window.  They started in the rear.

I know of a Knuit that "leveled" his foam using a "high speed grinder".  The mfr and foam application team gave assurance that the foam was inert and non toxic after it hardened and sat for a day.  COMPLETELY SAFE!  Well so is asbestos in those regards....inert....just don't get the dust in your lungs...asbestosis.  By his using a grinder, not the usual instrument as it is painfully slow, he created micro particle dust that embedded in his lungs.  That happened dispite his wearing a mouth/nose fabric mask. Years after the event he was still debilitate and had no hope of his lungs ever expelling the dust or having his body break the stuff down and absorb it.  Charcoal is not toxic but who ever heard of Black Lung?  Wheat and grain are even nutritious but who ever heard of White Lung?  You need a good and approved respirator to remove particulate or the dust will do you a bad turn...almost any dust.  If you can't breath, well, anything else you might have been trying to do immediately falls way down on the list of importance.  No joke.

Way back it was explained to me that the chemical name for that foam was polyisoCYANIDEsomething.  The name "cyanide" was taken from one of its chemical components...."cyanide".  The stuff of prison gas chamber legend that California says is hazardous to your health. Pinko Leftist Faggot Worry-warts that they are.  It was further explained that "no charcoal filter will remove cyanide from the air "so a full aspirator is "needed".

I called a guy a year ago to get a price on spray foaming a bus.  He is one of the biggest shops in the Northwest as far as I know but nowhere near the largest contractor.  He assured me that he could spray the "stuff" without even an aspirator as he had an extremely high tolerance to the out gassed chemicals.  Calling "around" I learned that he had been spraying an open celled "water based" foam that was every bit as dangerous as latex paint.  It also absorbed and transmitted moisture really really well.  Gosh was he a smooth talker....really!  He even offered me ten references.  Buyer Beware!  The good stuff is R7.5 and poisonous till cured, as far as I know.

The "Big Guys" hang firing strips on the wall to get an additional inch or three quarters in foam thickness in the walls.  That gives them a R21 or so if they fill the closed beams with foam shot through holes they drill.  If you think that is over kill, and maybe it is for you, check the building codes, in terms of insulation requirements, for the areas in which you will travel and camp.  Just for a reference, mind you.  For me 21 wasn't much but it is the best I will be able to do realistically.  I got a roof to 35 and worked grandly.

Look, I don't have a Dog in your fight and I am not really all that nebby.  Although the chances are slim, I or a friend may someday buy the bus you are building.  What goes around, comes around..... As a Non Com, everyone in my Work Center knew I had one overarching rule..".You will never knowingly allow a fellow tech to make a mistake or commit an error....period.  Do that and I will hurt you."  Great teamwork!  I still feel that way about cautioning but I can allow anybody to do whatever they please whenever.

I sure hope the Experts add to this and be assured I have no reservations about being corrected or contradicted in public or in PM.  So long as all benefit.

John

« Last Edit: December 24, 2008, 11:45:28 PM by JohnEd » Logged

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« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2008, 11:54:30 PM »

Ilya,

The floor is a place where you might want to consider foam sheeting.  If you have the ceiling clear for your head you can lay one or two inch sheets on the floor sandwiched between tongue and groove plywood.  If you want to use spray it must be applied to the underside of the floor in the bay.

Have you sorted out which bays will be insulated and by how much?

For wall wires you install all wiring in plastic conduit so you can add wire or whatever to the run.  Easy to pull wires in plastic tube.  Don't have reservations about embedding this stuff. I wouldn't even bother to pull the wires before the foam spraying.  Myself now.

Happy Holidays to you and everyone and Merry Christmas.

John
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« Reply #15 on: December 25, 2008, 06:32:24 AM »

JohnEd…about your post in regard to the air breathing toxic fume. That is a good post to be in Wiki file by all mean.

We need that reminder to keep us informed of the human safety.

You said it well and by no mean always follow the product’s recommend safety suggestion on all of MAK board posts.

Thank you JohnEd!

Sojourn for Christ, Gerald

Merry Christmas!
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« Reply #16 on: December 25, 2008, 09:48:51 AM »

John,

I can see that you have spent a lot of time thinking about this issue. I am glad that you posted it. Thanks for the info...

Also, we used curry combs to scrape our foam down. They weren't expensive (from TSC), and they didn't have the health risk that John mentioned, since they were bigger chunks, scraped off and the particles didn't get airborne.

Merry Christmas,

God bless,

John
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NewbeeMC9
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« Reply #17 on: December 25, 2008, 12:21:07 PM »

This is my post from the tiger foam post

I used these on a room in my house due to limited acces of MBOB (my big o butt )

http://www.sprayfoamdirect.com/products/index.php?page=shop.browse&category_id=6&option=com_virtuemart&vmcchk=1&Itemid=1

I also wanted Closed Cell Foam, for the better sealing and higher R-value so make sure of what your getting.  Open cell has half the r-value and can let moisture through, but it is still better than nothing or fiberglass etc.

the guns get pricy and break easily. 

the tanks covered more than estimated, and i foamed the door to my bus while I was at it.

If i had to do it again, or if i do some more and other things,  I was strongly considering this gun, but you need a good compressor,

http://www.soythane.com/?q=node/5

once you have the gun you can spray the other products from Spraymax like bedliner and garage floor coatings, or foam other smaller areas, options are open.

HTH

oh yeah, the people here were quoting some high prices(3-5$/ft sq) so i did some of the job myself


also,
While you have the floor up and cleaning.  I would consider how you can use that space, fresh water tanK maybe,  seems wasted on my MC9, tank might give you some thermal mass if you need it in the right spot.  also if you coud put a hatch in the center aisle you can put a lot of stuff there and have access to upgrade later as you learn and change your mind.  also i have a positve pressure there going down the road.  which causes a lot of AC loss(heat gain). 



i vote sandwich flat sheets in the floor just for ease of installation. 

but most of all,

do it your way. Grin
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« Reply #18 on: December 25, 2008, 02:37:38 PM »

NewB,

I note this place is touting their "GREENESS" and lack of bad stuff.  Did you have a fresh air issue?

Hot foam has an R value of 7.5.  One product on that site is spec'd at 7.0 and another at 7.7.  A 150F degree temp limit doesn't seem adequate.  Did I miss something?

I think if I had an entire house to do I would use that stuff and especially if a garage was also in the mix.  Thanks for the post and link.

John
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« Reply #19 on: December 25, 2008, 05:50:36 PM »

JohnEd,

I did a room that had been taken in from a carport and had no insulation in the attic or under the floor and has a low pitch roof.  The spray foam quotes i was getting were high I thought I would try the Foamit Green myself on this room and learn from it. Some areas i just sprayed at and wish the gun could have been longer.  I didn't have air problems doing the attic but i kept the pretty good fans going yjere was more ventilation and i sprayed slower.  I only had the one fan going when i was underneath and had trouble if i got out of the direct line of the fan.  I was moving faster and spraying more underneath too.

major improvement on the, room not too uncomfotable with the vents closed, will prolly come back over with loose fill in attic for more r-value.


they released the Spraymax after i had purchased the other.  I am wanting to do the rest of my house, and build a building and insulate it and maybe coat the concrete as well, so the spraymax was interesting me due to the smaller volumes to spray. and the gun investment might be worth it with a lot to do.




PS note that i did not use the quote featue and just addressed the poster Cheesy
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« Reply #20 on: December 25, 2008, 09:25:40 PM »

Newbee,

You ad new dimension to the term "Iron Lung". Roll Eyes  Nice results though. Grin

John
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The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
—Pla
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« Reply #21 on: December 25, 2008, 11:43:01 PM »

could this foam be sprayed on a mesh two buildaboat?

It's all fun and games til someone gets hurt. Wink yeah then it's really hilarious Cool
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« Reply #22 on: December 26, 2008, 07:30:53 PM »

could this foam be sprayed on a mesh two buildaboat?

look for the denser stuff, i think that's what the use in boat building


Newbee,

You ad new dimension to the term "Iron Lung". Roll Eyes  Nice results though. Grin

John


I think the R-134 gave me the most trouble when i was laying down and spraying up,  if i moved from in front of the fan it was rough,  only did that once. Tongue
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