Bus Conversions dot Com Bulletin Board
July 30, 2014, 02:21:46 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: If you had an E-Mag Subscription: You can zoom in to make the text larger and easier to read.
   Home   Help Forum Rules Search Calendar Login Register BCM Home Page Contact BCM  
Pages: 1 2 3 [All]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Batteries again!  (Read 6324 times)
Blacksheep
Guest

« on: January 03, 2009, 08:12:21 PM »

On the way to Arcadia, my low voltage light suddenly came on but only after I had turned on my running lights. When I turned them off, the light went out. All was good until going home. On the way home, no lights on and about 45 minutes into the drive, the low voltage light re-appeared briefly and then when almost home it stayed on. Not only that, the trans would not shift the way it was supposed to. It shifted Up, Down, Up, Down, while accelerating! I contribute that to, again, low voltage!
Made it home and checked the voltage in each battery and then on the 24v leg of all 4. Each battery was 12.5 and 12.6 and across the 24 leg it read 24.6. Not high enough so I figure I will get new batteries today which I did! When they checked the old ones, they found that they were very dead and with a rating of 950 cca, they had roughly 30. So, they exchanged them with a whole fresh batch all from the same date code.
Now I put the new batteries in and check the voltage on each one prior to hooking them up. Each one read 12.5 and 12.6 (2 each had same reading) and I contribute that to sitting on the shelf. After hooking them up and starting the engine, I re-check the voltages. SAME as before! I turn on some lights like running lights and bay doors open and the voltage dropped a point! 12.4 and 12.5.
I went and looked at the voltage regulator and found that sometime prior to my purchase it has been replaced. It's a delco-remy 24 volt adjustable regulator model number 1118447. I tried turning it up a bit but it made no difference! I suspect the regulator is not doing a good job.  I hope it's not the alternator but if it is, I will change to less expensive Leece-Neville at that time!
Any thoughts?

Can someone explain in detail how to check the regulator other than what I have already done?

Does anyone have a source for this regulator?

Thanks...
Ace

« Last Edit: January 03, 2009, 08:15:32 PM by Blacksheep » Logged
Sojourner
Jesus Love You!
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 894


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2009, 05:47:11 AM »

To test alternator

Engine stopped; Master off.
Remove wire "F1" off the "FLD" terminal on the alternator. Meter the resistance of the "FLD" terminal. It should meter 3 to 5 ohms of resistance.
Open....Change out the alternator (Open field circuit)
Shorted....Change out the alternator and the voltage regulator. (Cooked field circuit due to regulator)
Yes....Field circuit is OK but the next step with the Engine stopped; Master off; Main disconnect on.

Remove wire "R1" off the relay terminal on the alternator. Meter the voltage of relay terminal. It should be less than 1.5 volts. The less the better.
Yes....Means diode is OK
No....Means one or more diodes is shorted. Change out the alternator.

Load test for winding and/or open diode test. Engine running; A jumper between "F1" (off the "FLD" terminal on the alternator) to DC positive terminal on alternator. Caution…never leave it connect more than 15 seconds or you can over heat the field and the main winding. It should meter over 30 volts on 24 volts system or half of that on 12 volts system.
Yes....Means it OK
No....Means Change out the alternator.

I do not have a Prevost manual to follow their schematic for more information about what with the relays before regulator.

FWIW

Sojourn for Christ, Gerald

Delcotron 50 DN Alternator Service Bulletin 1G-258
« Last Edit: January 04, 2009, 05:53:21 AM by Sojourner » Logged

http://dalesdesigns.net/names.htm
Ps 28 Blessed be the LORD, because he hath heard the voice of my supplications. The LORD is my strength and my shield; my heart trusted in him, and I am helped: therefore my heart greatly rejoiceth; and with my song will I praise him
Blacksheep
Guest

« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2009, 06:14:15 AM »

Jerry, thanks for the information and I should have stated that I already had the delco site you provided. What I didn't see on the site was a pdf info sheet for the regulator. I saw sheets for internal regulators buit not external.

Thanks again...
Ace
Logged
muddog16
Example is more powerful than reproach. ~Aesop
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 506



WWW

Ignore
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2009, 08:24:41 AM »

Ace, I'm sure you have a link to the Prevost Maintenance site, they have drawings online for every Prevost made you can download any drawing you need if you have a customer number........!  The customer number is free.......just use your vin number and apply, I've found lots of information there!
Logged

Pat

1982 Prevost LeMirage
8V92TA/HT754

http://prevostlemirage.blogspot.com/
Sammy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 523




Ignore
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2009, 08:29:53 AM »

Ace, a good truck parts house should be able to get you a regulator, maybe a NAPA store?- if it's bad.
I buy 'em from my rebuilder,MCI,or Prevost Parts.
Gotta make sure that there is 24v at regulator (POS) or (BAT), waiting to be delivered to the Field terminal of your alternator. Make sure there is a good ground too (NEG), if you have that terminal on your regulator.
Might have a relay that controls voltage to regulator.......
Send me the 10th digit and last 4 digits of your VIN, I'll check schematics for you.
Logged
Blacksheep
Guest

« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2009, 08:46:11 AM »

Muddog yes I'm aware of all that but not sure if I need to go that route just yet. Still diagnosing actuall items before I get into wiring!

Sammy the 10th digit is "N" and the last 4 numbers are: 1232

Ace
Logged
Sean
Geek.
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Posts: 2539


'85 Neoplan Spaceliner "Odyssey"


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2009, 09:06:04 AM »

Ace,

Do you have a battery isolator in your coach?  If so, carefully check to see where the sense lead from the regulator has been routed.  It needs to be on the + terminal of the coach batteries for proper operation when under way.

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
Logged

Full-timing in a 1985 Neoplan Spaceliner since 2004.
Our blog: http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
Sammy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 523




Ignore
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2009, 09:35:59 AM »

Ace,make sure there is 24 volts at the BAT terminal on your voltage regulator with bus running. IF NOT -  your coach has a Field Relay - R3. It is supposed to be located in the rear junction box.You need to make sure has 24v on Term 87 of R3.That's battery voltage waitingto go to the BAT terminal of your voltage regulator.
You should also make sure that field relay R3 is being energized (24v) on Term 86 and there is a good ground on Term 85.
Disconnect BAT wire from voltage regulator(with bus shut off), check continuity from that end of wire to Term 30 of R3.
Here's the diagram.........http://prevostparts.volvo.com/technicalpublications/pdf/d060688p1c.pdf
My diagrams start with P300, so I went online too. Hope this may help you with your troubleshooting.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2009, 09:46:43 AM by Sammy » Logged
Sojourner
Jesus Love You!
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 894


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2009, 02:03:13 PM »

There you go....Ace!

Thanks for all you but nuts servant to make it possible for Ace getting lending hand of lean suggests. You all help me to try to be on top of anything I have no information on. And I do Thank you.

Muddog16’s suggestion about we need VIN number to get online technical information.

Sean's suggestion is important...can be incorrectly connect wrong by previous owner.

Sammy suggestion is very important about R3 (NC) to be de-energize so it complete the circuit for 24v power to regulator. And it could have bad contact points in relay.

Sammy sends the drawing of most of the H-40 chassis wiring schematic. Very helpful indeed.

FWIW

Sojourn for Christ, Gerald

BTW…If you ever need to replace that old old old fashion voltage regulator, get the new solid state voltage regulator. All new buses with Delcotron 50-DN alternator are using the new state of art regulator. Part number is 10503805 or model 19020411 for 24v version.
They cost about $200 but I paid $17.97 on E-B at “Buy-now” with free shipping. He out of them now but if you ask them when more will come in or never? ?
10503805 Solid State V. Regulator

Another BTW…about changing to smaller alternator from 270 amp version. Make sure your aware that whatever inverter you are using while traveling or fast idling, that it can be capable handle all your 24v or 12v needs without being at it alternator output’s limit so it would not break down too quickly. It much more reliable to have the reserve capacity of 20% or 30% over your common heavy charging demand.
After all about getting good use alternator at salvage/recycle store…a common class 8 truck use smaller alternator, never use as must current load as motorhome with 2 or more A/C and charging house-battery from over night used.
Also having power loss to turn the large 270 ampere alternator is about equal with other HD lower ampere such as 160 amp air cool version. In other words, if both were charging 160 amp…the power requirement is about equal. Belt drive requires more power than gear drive while charging at 160 amps.
Logged

http://dalesdesigns.net/names.htm
Ps 28 Blessed be the LORD, because he hath heard the voice of my supplications. The LORD is my strength and my shield; my heart trusted in him, and I am helped: therefore my heart greatly rejoiceth; and with my song will I praise him
Blacksheep
Guest

« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2009, 03:03:45 PM »

Thank you everyone for the replies to the problem which I might add is NO MORE! HOORAY!!!!!

Sammy, I think you for taking the time to find and send me the diagram. Here is what I did! Since my laptop is not presently hooked up to my printer, I copied the information and detailed instructions and sent it to my email which I received on my blackberry. I took the phone out to the bus and proceeded from there. When I started the bus, nothing had changed from this morning. I then went to step one and checked for voltage at the regulator. NONE! I then went and located the field relay which on my bus was numbered R3 just like Sammy and the diagram said. It was easy as it was the first in line! I checked the voltage there and found I had 24 volts present. Before I got into checking continuity on the wire from the regulator to the relay, I decided to just try a spare relay I had that was taken out of a slot that I know I didn't use. After replacing the relay, I started the bus and both 12v and 24 v gauges on the dash PEGGED. I shut the bus down and went and decreased the adjustment on the regulator which was ALL the way maxed out. I DID adjust that yesterday but only about the thickness of a screwdriver and didn't realize it was as far as it could go. Anyway, after decreasing the adjustment, the dash gauges read normal so I went and checked voltage directly on the batteries but first I turned on headlights and I already had some bay doors open with bay lights on. The batteries checked out with 25.9 volts across the 24 leg and 12.9 on each battery individually. I decreased the regulator even a tad bit more to where the reading is 25.6 and 12.7. I turned the lights off, no change! I turned them on again and they even seem to be much brighter. After shutting the engine OFF, turning all lights OFF, shutting all bay doors, the batteries seem to be fully charged and holding steady at 25.5!

I know this may not be the correct way in fixing a problem but it IS fixed for now anyway!

THANK YOU BUS NUTS!

Ace... FULLY CHARGED!!!!!!!
Logged
Blacksheep
Guest

« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2009, 06:22:25 AM »

UPDATE:

Last night I usually plug in my on board battery charger/maintainer but purposely neglected to do so just to see if the batteries would drain down overnight like they normally do. To my surprise, when I checked the voltage this morning with engine not running, no lights on, the batteries actually stayed charged. There was a slight change from the 25.6 when I put it to bed to 25.7 this morning.
My next question is this. Could a relay which is the only thing I changed, be bad, with a possible short, and cause a steady drain on the batteries?
What a difference charged batteries make with lighting! I didn't think my new LED's could get brighter! Smiley

Ace
Logged
Sammy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 523




Ignore
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2009, 02:17:01 PM »

Ace, happy to help. Sounds like your bus was not charging because R3 was not energizing properly across the coil side,or contacts were not closing to allow 24v to get to your volatge regulator.Doesn't sound like a short circuit.
I would recommend to set the charging rate to at least 27.2v on the 24 volt side and 13.8v on the 12v side. To do this properly you need to start your bus,put it on "fast idle" and put a "load" on your factory charging system. When I put a load on a system I turn on interior and exterior lights and the HVAC system.
I then make very small adjustments to the voltage regulator while checking voltage on 24v side and then the 12v side.
After adjustment is made, shut off load,turn off fast idle ,keep engine running and make sure charging rate is still good.I have had excellent results with this method on many non-converted motorcoaches.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2009, 02:21:42 PM by Sammy » Logged
Blacksheep
Guest

« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2009, 03:11:15 PM »

Sammy thanks again! Let me explain the reason why I set the voltage like I did. First off, the manual states to set it as you said but that was for a seated coach with many more accessories than what I have NOW! In other words I don't have the bathroom fixtures, isle lighting, seat lights, map lights, step lights, fans, blowers and HVAC. It all has been either removed or completely disconnected. Only lighting I have that is original is head lights, (low and high beam) running lights front side and rear and the rear engine cover lights have been changed to LED's. All the bay lights are still operative as are the dash lights and gauges. So as you can see, I didn't see the need to have the batteries be charged at the higher rate. I may be wrong and correct me if so! As it was, I was afraid to run in the dark because the head lights never looked bright. My friend has an identical coach that he too converted and when he checked his voltage sitting idle with nothing on and engine off, it was 25.6v. If you think the coach charging rate still needs to be set higher, please explain why and I will pass the info on to my friend as well!

Ace
Logged
Lin
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4529

1965 MC-5a




Ignore
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2009, 03:39:37 PM »

Ace,

Didn't you say you put in new batteries?  Could that be the reason they hold a charge better?
Logged

You don't have to believe everything you think.
Blacksheep
Guest

« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2009, 04:16:14 PM »

Lin it seems I always have had new batteries. It appears that I was the dumb one in thinking it was always the batteries and kept replacing them, hence always new! After about a year things would always go the way they recently did with the exception of the warning light and the shifting problem! I thought I would finally go after what was causing me to think the batteries were bad by starting with 4 fresh ones and when they showed a no charge situation it was time to look deeper!
I really feel the culprit has been found and fixed. And byu the way, after sitting over 24 hours there has been NO drainage at all. I'm still curious to know if a bad relay would cause the batteries to drain like they were because before, by now, the bus would not start and the new batteries would be dead! I haven't changed anything but the R-3 relay.

Ace
Logged
Sammy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 523




Ignore
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2009, 04:20:16 PM »

I have had excellent results with this method on many non-converted motorcoaches.

Ace,
I cannot tell you if your friend's method is correct or not. I have no experience with converted coaches.
I'd be very interested to find out if there is a different charging rate for converted coaches too. Smiley
Logged
mikelutestanski
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 381


Mikes Metal Mistress




Ignore
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2009, 04:49:38 PM »

Hello   
     Check the website below for basic charging voltages of lead acid cells. The minimum charging voltage is as Sammy stated  13.8V or 2X that which is 27.6V for a 24V system. 
    The charging voltage is a function of the battery chemistry and what is required to keep the battery cells charged correctly.  The load that the battery sees is more linked to how long the battery will last ie charging cycles and how deep the battery is discharged before requiring charge.   This is a very simplified explanation and probably does not accurately reflect the whole story however if you search the web for charging lead acid batteries you will find lots of info to help you determine the correct charging voltage for your application.. 
     It is my opinion that you should follow the MCI manual recommendations however opinions are like #$%^&   everyone comes with one and you need to separate the wheat from the chaff.

    http://www.powerstream.com/SLA.htm

        Regards and Happy bussin....   mike   
Logged

Mike Lutestanski   Dunnellon Florida
  1972 MCI 7
  L10 Cummins  B400R  4.625R
Blacksheep
Guest

« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2009, 04:51:43 PM »

Sorry Sammy I forgot to mention that both his and my bus started out as seated coaches and we both self converted them. Not sure if this makes a difference but now I hope its clearer! Smiley

Ace
Logged
VanTare
Guest

« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2009, 05:10:11 PM »

Sammy I have a converted H-45 VIP chassis and the voltage on it is set at 27.5 volts   

David
Logged
Sammy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 523




Ignore
« Reply #19 on: January 05, 2009, 05:22:57 PM »

David, thanks for charging info on your coach.  Cool
Logged
Sojourner
Jesus Love You!
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 894


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #20 on: January 05, 2009, 05:27:34 PM »

About charging rate for either seated coach or motorhome…it makes no difference what so ever except for nearly steady 24/7 or stop to rest a few days or weeks then go. A car to gigantic earth mover use exactly same voltage setting for its design battery. Only difference is if you are using other than wet cell battery design such as gelled, and AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat). They have their own charging voltage setting.

Ace…just go for the coach recommends setting for standard battery (wet cell). It usually 14.7v @ 70°F for 12v wet cell with head light and heater motor on. Double the voltage for 24v system.
However for very warm climate, setting should be at least 28.5v for 24v system
FWIW

Sojourn for Christ, Gerald
« Last Edit: January 05, 2009, 08:43:33 PM by Sojourner » Logged

http://dalesdesigns.net/names.htm
Ps 28 Blessed be the LORD, because he hath heard the voice of my supplications. The LORD is my strength and my shield; my heart trusted in him, and I am helped: therefore my heart greatly rejoiceth; and with my song will I praise him
luvrbus
Guest

« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2009, 05:51:54 PM »

Gerald, if you double the 12v for 24v that would be 29.4 volts are you sure about that formula my Prevost manuals states 27.5 for both the seated and conversion shell .     good luck
Logged
Blacksheep
Guest

« Reply #22 on: January 05, 2009, 05:55:19 PM »

The power stream site was very informative and I thank you for posting it. I now understand charging just a little better and will make the necessary adjustments to get my charging voltage up to 27.6 across the 24 volt leg or 13.8 for each battery. Right now if I calculate correctly, I'm set somewhere around 12.8 per battery which makes my 24v leg exactly what is reads 25.7.

Now is all I have to do is slightly adjust my voltage regulator? I know it doesn't take much to move it a lot! AND I should turn every possible item on that would load the system? Is this correct? My concern with setting it at a higher rate when loaded was that when I ran with no lights and no fans, a/c, blowers etc., that it would overcharge! I assume I was wrong in my theory?

Ace
Logged
Sojourner
Jesus Love You!
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 894


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #23 on: January 05, 2009, 08:35:29 PM »

Thank you for asking…luvrbus.

Battery gets less sulfating if you charge at high end of adjustable setting.
The lower the setting the thicker the sulfate coating in time.

Charging the lead-acid battery
http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-13.htm

MCI call for 28 volts @ 80°F is for 24hrs day uses. Very little cranking cycle per “passenger” miles.

However, for us motorhome uses…higher setting is better at 29.4v @ 70°F (alternator & regulator temperature). You may use little more water in battery but it keeps it more alive and last as long or longer however, if you can desulfate the batteries….you will get even more life still.

All electronic devices, blower motor, headlight and miniature bulb are factory design to be a least 15v for 12v and 30v for 24v system.

This one of the common reason for the 8D batteries that came with from charter companies for bus conversion is very weak to say the least. Voltage setting is too low for bus nuts purposes.

Do can do what you want to set it at whatever. It your money and time for the long run.

Car & light & medium truck of today are set at the middle range.

Ace…Now that I was thinking why you said that?…you are right about bus being use passenger and motorhome, have difference voltage setting. Only because it not running nearly 24hrs every day and never stay warmed …you need to set higher then their spec our uses.  Set it at least 28.5 for warm climate to 29.4 volts @ 80°F for cold climate with a load on such as bright headlights and front heater motor on.

Sorry for confusion but after seeing many bus nuts post about the hard starting with old 8Ds in mild cold day that it starter barely cranks the DD fast enough to raise the combustion temperature high enough (at least 700°F) to ignites. So I am learning that buses manufacturing is spec for low voltage setting, we need to increase it to be in our style of uses.

BTW…High end charger is set 15.5v for 12v and 31v for 24v battery.


Gerald, if you double the 12v for 24v that would be 29.4 volts are you sure about that formula my Prevost manuals states 27.5 for both the seated and conversion shell .     good luck
Logged

http://dalesdesigns.net/names.htm
Ps 28 Blessed be the LORD, because he hath heard the voice of my supplications. The LORD is my strength and my shield; my heart trusted in him, and I am helped: therefore my heart greatly rejoiceth; and with my song will I praise him
Sojourner
Jesus Love You!
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 894


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #24 on: January 05, 2009, 08:56:44 PM »

Ace...about the load require before adjusting....you only need partial load to stabilize and heat-up alternator's windings for repeatable adjusted setting, such as bright headlight and front heater blower on and run at least 15 minutes before adjusting. For your case, adjust to 28.5 v.  Caution...always adjust from low & up to 28.5v...not from the higher voltage down to 28.5v. Otherwise you will not get repeated voltage setting.

FWIW

Sojourn for Christ, Gerald

Logged

http://dalesdesigns.net/names.htm
Ps 28 Blessed be the LORD, because he hath heard the voice of my supplications. The LORD is my strength and my shield; my heart trusted in him, and I am helped: therefore my heart greatly rejoiceth; and with my song will I praise him
niles500
Niles500
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1184


ROSIE




Ignore
« Reply #25 on: January 06, 2009, 02:01:21 AM »

I beg to differ with all the recommendations - You should set the charge rate at what the battery manufacturer states - A battery doesn't know if its in a GM, MCI or Prevost - Bus manufacturer's give spec's on Batts that are FACTORY installed, not after market - In this case when you  go by "Da Book" it's the "Battery Book" - HTH
Logged

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")  

- Niles
Busted Knuckle
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6447


6 Setras, 2 MCIs, and 1 Dina. Just buses ;D


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #26 on: January 06, 2009, 08:33:27 AM »

Ace I ain't positive on this, but if the relay was sticking on and closing (completing) a circuit even with "everything supposed to be off" could have been back feeding thru the alternator and draining the battery!
I used to have the same problem on my derby cars where if I left the battery hooked up it would be dead in no time (3-4hrs)! Then friend rewired my alternator for me (told me I had the field permanently energized or something like that! And after he did whatever it was only on when the engine was running.) and after that I could leave the battery hooked up for weeks at a time and it'd always be fully charged! (I was the only idiot in this area who used an 8D battery in my derby car, but I always had plenty of recranking power no matter hot hot the engine got! LOL)
FWIW Grin  BK  Grin
Logged

Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
KY Lakeside Travel's Busted Knuckle Garage
Huntingdon, TN 12 minutes N of I-40 @ exit 108
www.kylakesidetravel.net

Grin Keep SMILING it makes people wonder what yer up to! Grin (at least thats what momma always told me! Grin)
Blacksheep
Guest

« Reply #27 on: January 06, 2009, 06:00:20 PM »

Jerry, thanks for the very informative site. I have been reading about batteries now for two days and I feel like I'm sort of charged up myself.

Niles, as far as setting the charge rate according to the battery mfgr rather than the bus mfgr, where would someone find this information? I have looked at the label on the batteries but it really doesn't say but reading the charts and info provided by others, it says charging the batteries at a higher rate will ultimately make the batteries last longer (I think). Charging them at a lower rate will cause them to go weak or dead faster (again, I think)

Now I also read someplace that you should check the battery temperature while charging. Is that the battery case? Do you check it with a digital temp gun?

Today the batteries read 25.5-6, down from 25.6-7 when I installed them. Nothing started and nothing on!

Bk, not sure what your saying but what I do know is the relay made everything work like it should. Why? Your guess is as good as mine! I was thinking of carefully cutting it open to see what shows on the inside and maybe that would tell me (us) more!

Ace

Logged
niles500
Niles500
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1184


ROSIE




Ignore
« Reply #28 on: January 06, 2009, 09:38:59 PM »

Ace - post the battery info and I'll try and find it for you - HTH
Logged

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")  

- Niles
Sojourner
Jesus Love You!
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 894


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #29 on: January 06, 2009, 11:56:21 PM »

Ace...about battery temperature is the electrolyte however, you can use your IR gun to measure cell # 3 or # 4 case’s side at about 1 ½ inch from the top or into the water level.


"TEMPERATURE COMPENSATED BATTERY
     STATE-OF-CHARGE (SoC) TABLE"                  
Deg. F column is Electrolyte Temperature
     
 All reading for Wet "Mainteneance Free" (Ca/Ca) or AGM/Gel Cell VRLA (Ca/Ca) Battery
            
      Open Circuit Voltage Reading            
Deg F   100%     75%     50%     25%     0%
           SoC      SoC      SoC      SoC      SoC
120   12.813   12.613   12.413   12.013   11.813
110   12.811   12.611   12.411   12.011   11.811
100   12.808   12.608   12.408   12.008   11.808
90   12.805   12.605   12.405   12.005   11.805
80   12.800   12.600   12.400   12.000   11.800
70   12.793   12.593   12.393   11.993   11.793
60   12.784   12.584   12.384   11.984   11.784
50   12.772   12.572   12.372   11.972   11.772
40   12.756   12.556   12.356   11.956   11.756
30   12.738   12.538   12.338   11.938   11.738
20   12.716   12.516   12.316   11.916   11.716
10   12.692   12.492   12.292   11.892   11.692
  0   12.666   12.466   12.266   11.866   11.666

niles500...all electrolyte batteries are same voltage per percentage of state of charge per given degree in Fahrenheit

Charging voltage is base on type of battery, type of used and type of driving and storage temperature and length of time storage.

FWIW

Sojourn for Christ, Gerald
Logged

http://dalesdesigns.net/names.htm
Ps 28 Blessed be the LORD, because he hath heard the voice of my supplications. The LORD is my strength and my shield; my heart trusted in him, and I am helped: therefore my heart greatly rejoiceth; and with my song will I praise him
VanTare
Guest

« Reply #30 on: January 07, 2009, 03:39:04 AM »

You fellows charge your batteries at what voltage you like but I will follow the bus manufactures recommendation there is a purpose for it they did not dream it 30 volts may work for a battery charger with the batteries disconnected but no way would I set my regulator for 30 volts for a 24 volt system or above 13.8 for the 12 volt system   

David
« Last Edit: January 07, 2009, 04:09:27 AM by VanTare » Logged
niles500
Niles500
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1184


ROSIE




Ignore
« Reply #31 on: January 07, 2009, 02:58:14 PM »

From Home Power:

************

The maximum recommended rate is C/5 (a charge rate in amps of one-fifth the overall battery capacity in amp-hours), but only when the cells are between 10 and 85 percent state of charge (SOC). After the cells reach 85 percent SOC, then a C/10 is the maximum. After cells reach 95 percent SOC, between C/20 and C/15 is recommended. Having said this, I rarely charge faster than a C/10.

The reason for the maximums is heat. Higher amperage means more heat, particularly when the cells are getting fully recharged. Thermal cycling wears the plates and sloughs off material.

Finally, it’s always a good idea to get charging specifications from the manufacturer of the particular model of battery you’re running. Battery specific charge rates, and bulk, absorption, float and equalization set-points and times will all lead to better battery longevity.

Richard Perez • Home Power

**************

I have never seen a respected Battery "expert" that didn't refer you back to the MFR - Why? - because they've already done the math on each of their Batts - Below is a link to the math - HTH


http://xtronics.com/reference/batterap.htm

 
 
 
Logged

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")  

- Niles
youknowwho
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 49




Ignore
« Reply #32 on: January 07, 2009, 03:29:46 PM »

I know this horse has been beat to death but wouldn't this (I have this one now) be the best way or one of the best ways to get the right charge and charge rate? Those all in one inverters are cool but if one of the functions go bad you loose all of it's functions while being repaired. They however do not like a bad power source.
http://www.blackanddecker.com/ProductGuide/Product-Details.aspx?ProductID=17925
Logged

ilyafish
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 280


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #33 on: January 08, 2009, 02:57:35 AM »

blacksheep,

i've noticed you still have yet to get the answer to your question if a bad relay can cause batteries to die...yes it can.

one of the relays that goes to my WVO system was stuck open (and i didnt know it), and was draining my batteries.  we were on tour and we had to literally get jump started every morning.  eventually we began to piece things together and one of the other guys who is more mechanically inclined than i am, figured out that the relay was stuck open, and was the cause of the problem.

now all the specifics, the hows and whys i have no idea, all i know is that is what caused it for me.
Logged

Own: 1981 MCI MC9 w/
Veggie Oil Conversion
Live:  Flemington, NJ

1 Corinthians 9:19-22
Pages: 1 2 3 [All]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!