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Author Topic: Priming Question  (Read 4205 times)
pickpaul
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« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2009, 07:28:55 PM »

Wow, thanks for the pic, that's really helpful.

I forgot to mention the year in my question. It's an 87 - DDEC or not?
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Timkar
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« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2009, 07:44:44 PM »

Hard to say. From what I have read DDEC was introduced in 1985,
but I don't know when they became "common" .
That coach I posted the engine pic of is an 86 and doesn't have DDEC.
I have had an 86 Eagle (6V92) and an 88 Eagle (8V92) and neither of them
were DDEC.
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Cawston, British Columbia
pickpaul
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« Reply #17 on: January 12, 2009, 10:58:19 PM »

White circle is where you can possibly expect to find
fuel filters

How do I tell which is the secondary filter?
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4905 doc
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« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2009, 05:51:39 AM »

A garden sprayer and some liquid wd40 will get your rig started. remove the air cleaner and have someone turn the engine over while spraying. it'll start and it's way safer than ether. if you really want to use ether, be mighty careful. It doesn't take much to ether-lock a motor.
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rv_safetyman
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« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2009, 08:46:37 AM »

There have been lots of threads on priming an engine.  In this thread, there have been some good recommendations (not sure I feel good about starting fluid, and I am told that WD 40 no longer works as good now that they no longer use propane as the propellant).

For those that have their own bus, there are two things I would consider:

1)  Install and electric fuel pump in a parallel system (with valves to control source of supply). 

2)  I strongly suggest that folks replace their filters with a DD/Davco Fuel Pro 382 filter: http://www.davcotec.com/DFP-_fp382.htm.  That makes changing the filter a piece of cake and eliminates the chance of loosing the prime.  Further, it tells you WHEN to change the filter and lets you see what your fuel looks like (air, algae, etc).  Kind of pricey, but well worth it in my opinion.

Jack Conrad wrote about it in another thread (maybe one of Ace's). 

Jim
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Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
Somewhere between a tin tent and a finished product
Bus Project details: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
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travelingfools
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« Reply #20 on: January 13, 2009, 09:51:03 AM »

FWIW, open the door for the fuel tank and see if there is a pump in there. Mine, an ex NJT,  had a piming pump and valve already installed. When my bus ran out, all I had to do was get 12 volts to the pump (actually repalce the pump, but thats another story), close the valve and wait a few min. Others here can tell you more about it..
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John P, Lewiston NY   1987 MC 9 ...ex NJT
pickpaul
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« Reply #21 on: January 13, 2009, 11:20:22 AM »

I strongly suggest that folks replace their filters with a DD/Davco Fuel Pro 382 filter
Jim

So you only need to buy one and use it to replace the primary and secondary filters Jim?
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rv_safetyman
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« Reply #22 on: January 13, 2009, 11:44:43 AM »

The instructions for the Fuel Pro 282 suggest you remove both OEM filters from the system and only go through the FP filter. 

Folks have pointed out that you are at risk if the fuel pump would gall, as there is no downstream filter to catch the parts.  I have heard of folks leaving the secondary filter in the system.  I would not think you would ever have to replace it, since the FP will do the job.

Many of the trucks I have looked at, use this system.  I think it is offered as an OEM option.  Maybe if Tom C sees this, he can confirm.

UPDATE:  I just looked at the installation instructions and they do confirm that the DP can be the only fuel filter in your system.  Here is link to the instructions:  http://www.davcotec.com/pdf/Diesel-FuelProcessors/F1242I-382InstallationInstr.pdf

Jim
« Last Edit: January 13, 2009, 11:56:11 AM by rv_safetyman » Logged

Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
Somewhere between a tin tent and a finished product
Bus Project details: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog:  http://rvsafetyman.blogspot.com/
Blacksheep
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« Reply #23 on: January 13, 2009, 12:03:38 PM »

Just got home from the Tampa DD Dealer and they had one on display! Cost not installed was a mere 599.00

Ace
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Lin
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« Reply #24 on: January 13, 2009, 01:20:37 PM »

They run about $250. as Ebay buy-it-now.  What do the experts say about living without secondary filter? 
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rv_safetyman
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« Reply #25 on: January 13, 2009, 05:50:24 PM »

Ace, there are all kinds of options for the filter.  DD tends to put all of the $$$ heater options and that seems to really boost the cost.

I think the basic unit is somewhere in the $350 range.

As someone pointed out, you can find them on Ebay. 

In another thread, there is discussion of fuel flow for a two stroke (lots of fuel returned to the tank to cool the injectors).  It is pretty high, so do not go with less that the 382 model

Jim
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Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
Somewhere between a tin tent and a finished product
Bus Project details: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog:  http://rvsafetyman.blogspot.com/
VanTare
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« Reply #26 on: January 13, 2009, 06:24:39 PM »

I personally don't like the Dacvo fuel pro some of my trucks have it and some don't you are still changing filters and a few Davco filters will not interchange with other manufactures filters and are hard to find and very expensive to replace.CAT requires a double  Davco filter for use on the CAT engine.The Fuel Pro is not a trouble free unit we carry the emergency spin on filters for ours that have the system in case it does quit and they do from time to time in the middle of no where   

David
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Ericbsc
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« Reply #27 on: January 13, 2009, 07:50:10 PM »

I bought a small 12v pump at Advance auto for app $20.00 Mounted it permanent. Put a tee in the main fuel supply at filter. Thru. the pump and into one of the two extra ports on the primary filter. Used a small shutoff valve to stop when not in use. Loose prime? Flip the switch, let it run for a minute and your ready to start!!! I just kept the pump loose for a long time thinking I would find the reason I lost prime occasionally. New fuel line and check valve and still after several days occasionally loose it . NO MORE!!!
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NJT5047
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« Reply #28 on: January 13, 2009, 08:22:10 PM »

The secondary filter is the front filter.  There should be two filters hanging on the RH lower engine cradle.     
DDEC 1 became pretty common in '87.  Still, most '87s were MUI.  DDEC was limited to major city transit service where emissions were a concern.   If your bus has a push-button transmission shifter, it's a DDEC (probably).  If the bus has a shift tower with a lever selector, it's an MUI (Mechanical Unit Injection).
It may be worth your time to install a remote fuel tank to the primary filter with some sort of primer system.  You could use a remote 6 gallon boat fuel tank filled with diesel.   Then attach the fuel line to some sort of cheapo electric fuel pump.  Connect the outlet to the primary filter. You could drive the bus  if you can safely secure the fuel tank in the engine service area. 
Keep it safe.   
You can jump directly to the rear battery for 12V power for the fuel primer pump.   An outboard fuel line primer bulb will prime the engine, but you do some serious squeezing to pump the air thru.
This would not prime the bus fuel tank lines, but it would allow you to operate the engine.
Unless you got jumpers from #^#$%, that ain't gonna crank the bus.  You need two good fully charged group 31s or 8ds to start the engine.  This is especially so if it's cool when you try to start the engine.   A well used engine may not start at much below 50*.   If the engine has a block heater (lower RH rear of engine behind fuel filters) plug it up for a couple of hours for easy start.   
Once you purge the air from the fuel pump and injectors, it should fire right up.   Using a remote tank won't take long to purge air from the engine fuel system.  If no block heater, expect a ton of white smoke.   Should clear up in a minute or two. 
If the bus is a DDEC, priming the bus fuel tank could be problematic without an electric primer pump installed...temporary install is OK. 
 
Good luck, JR

 
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JR Lynch , Charlotte, NC
87 MC9, 6V92TA DDEC, HT748R ATEC

"Every government interference in the economy consists of giving an unearned benefit, extorted by force, to some men at the expense of others.

Ayn Rand
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« Reply #29 on: January 15, 2009, 01:47:10 PM »

Can't help you much with the prime except to say from my reading, if you plan on having a bus an electric fuel pump seems to be a good thing to have on hand.  I would buy one now for future uses.  As far as starting a bus with unknown batteries I'm pretty good at that.  By all means if you can get your car near the batts that will help.  I use my portable generator and a biggish battery charger to help starting in the cold, as well as ether.  I have a NA 6-71 so I think the batt requirements are alot lower thatn a a turboed 6V92.
I can start my 6-71 some ether and one  group 31 on a cold -10 C day if the battery is fully charged.
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