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Author Topic: DD 2 stroke oil?  (Read 5044 times)
luvrbus
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« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2009, 12:30:40 PM »

Rick, this engine oil  topic is beat to death here and other boards but the fact is no oil has more than 1% ash now CF is the rating now Delo 400 is the same oil now as  Delo 100 and the guys are telling you not to use any oil with a S rating and that is wrong in the Detroit book it will tell you can use it.The Delo will have a rating on the can CF/SL.I have owned 2 strokes for years and never bought into the idea that Delo 100 was the oil invented for the 2 strokes.Do your research and you will find out that any straight w oil will work that is on todays market     good luck
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belfert
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« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2009, 12:41:00 PM »

That oil I found at Fleet Farm is a house brand, but I believe it is made by Citgo.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2009, 06:56:02 PM »

we've always been able to order the Rotella T 40.  in Bushnell, fl, no one had it in stock, but in Arcadia, they seemed primed for the bus rally, or else Jack had been using so much that they readily stocked it.  i thought the price was really low until i found the new case was 1/2 the old case.  only 3 gallons.

NAPA has also always been able to get it for us, although not always in stock at the time we stop.

Cody, our oil consumption dropped after we got our jakes put on and changed out a saturated and leaking oil line.  i suspect that is the usual problem.  my bus still does mark a pmail for other buses to note, but now its just the slobber tubes, not the general mess it was.

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Tom
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8V92T, 740, Fulltime working on the road.

Fran was called to a higher duty 12/16/13. I lost my life navigator.
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« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2009, 12:17:25 AM »


Rick, this engine oil  topic is beat to death here and other boards but the fact is no oil has more than 1% ash now CF is the rating now Delo 400 is the same oil now as  Delo 100 and the guys are telling you not to use any oil with a S rating and that is wrong in the Detroit book it will tell you can use it.The Delo will have a rating on the can CF/SL.I have owned 2 strokes for years and never bought into the idea that Delo 100 was the oil invented for the 2 strokes.Do your research and you will find out that any straight w oil will work that is on todays market     good luck




Luvrbus -

I am going to respectfully disagree with you vehemently about Delo 400 being the same oil as Delo 100.  Please read the third paragraph in the LH column on Page 2 of this link, directly from Chevron, dated 14 July 2008:

https://www.cbest.chevron.com/generated/MSDS/PDS7668851.PDF

Also, look at the chart further down the page:  On the line "sulfated ash", you'll see that Delo 400 exceeds the "less than 1%" recommended by Detroit for the two-strokes, which can be found in Section 2.2 in this publication:

http://www.detroitdiesel.com/support/on-highway/manuals/Lubricants_Fuels_Coolants/7se270.pdf

Detroit specifically states in several places that only CF-2 oils should be used in the two-strokes, and only oils with 1% or less sulfated ash content.  Nowhere do they say that "S" oils are OK.

Please note that I am NOT saying that Delo 100 is the only oil to be used in the two strokes.  There are other oils on the market (Shell Rotella, Exxon/Mobil XD-3, Detroit's Delvac, Citgo's Low Ash Transit, etc.) that meet DDA's specs, what I am saying is that Chevron themselves specifically say that Delo 400 should NOT be used in a DD two-stroke.


Rick -

Since I've mentioned Chevron's Delo, you might try contacting these two Chevron products distributors in your area, if you're interested:

Sierra Energy
995 S McCarran Blvd #103
Sparks
775-829-1097

or

Western Energetix
655 S Stanford Wy
Sparks/Reno
775-689-1234


FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink

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RJ Long
PD4106-2784 No More
Fresno CA
luvrbus
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« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2009, 06:04:48 AM »

RJ, I guess we are reading from different DD books my 92 manual (1988) section 13 page 2 says you can use a some S rated oils and the engine oils of today have less than 1% ash per EPA and will have no ash after 2010 read a Delco 400 jug and it will state meets all CF ratings on the 40W and CF-4 for the 15-40.Another bit of info you for my engine is still under warranty and Stewart and Stevenson change my oil and like when they rebuilt the engine they put 40w Delo 400 again.You guys should read the fuel specs on a 2 stroke it is not a problem now with today's fuel but it was in the past and nobody paid any attention to it and the engine survived for years.    good luck
« Last Edit: January 19, 2009, 06:46:57 AM by luvrbus » Logged
buswarrior
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« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2009, 06:36:48 AM »

Let's remember, we're on our own, time stopped back in the mid 90's with regard to the venerable 2 stroke Detroit.

Who, worthy of consideration, is conducting the expensive trials necessary to comment on the effects of the newer technology oils being put in an older 2 stroke? There's no payback on the research.

Sure, Detroit will continue to make income off replacement parts, but the engineering is long done. They're just cranking out copies.

Let's also remember that Detroit was capable of big screw ups, some will have the fabled high mileage oil change recommendations in print in their manuals of the correct vintage. As time went by, Detroit changed their mind. Well, as noted, there is no time going by anymore, so there's no one to change their mind, or further support, the last of the "new ideas".

You can be sure of one thing, if you feed your engine an oil that meets or exceeds the details recommended by Detroit, you'll not go far wrong. Remember, recommended, not acceptable....

To the novice oil buyer, the "CF-2" designation is not enough. Many of the oils available have too high an ash content. You need to see the Material Safety Data Sheet, MSDS, and find the ash content. The further below 1% the better.

And in particular, off brand cheap oils must be regarded with suspicion, especially in our post diesel particulate filter emission control days. Ash is one of the things they are removing from the new oils as it is harmful to the DPF on a post 2007 engine. What will they do with a batch of oil that doesn't meet the new spec? Will they de-rate it to an older spec and off brand it?

And perhaps some relevance... what busnut is going to put the mileage on that it's going to matter whether they get 200 000 miles, or they get 500 000 miles, out of the engine?

Time for a coffee?

happy coaching!
buswarrior





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Frozen North, Greater Toronto Area
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« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2009, 06:50:02 AM »

... the engine oils of today have less than 1% ash per EPA and will have no ash after 2010 read a Delco 400 jug and it will state meets all CF ratings on the 40W and CF-4 for the 15-40.

https://www.cbest.chevron.com/generated/MSDS/PDS766887.PDF

Chevron's 2008 MSDS for Delo 400 also references meeting all CF ratings, but it also states that the ash content is 1.35% on the 40wt.

And perhaps some relevance... what busnut is going to put the mileage on that it's going to matter whether they get 200 000 miles, or they get 500 000 miles, out of the engine?

Unless of course, your engine already has 200,000 miles on it.  Or even 150,000 like mine.  And your budget could not cover a rebuild or even a working takeout transplant.  Then it becomes VERY relevant.
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« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2009, 07:15:43 AM »

Also from the Chevron Data sheets:

Delo 400 - https://www.cbest.chevron.com/generated/MSDS/PDS7668831.PDF

Quote
APPLICATIONS
Chevron Delo 400 oils are mixed-fleet motor oils
recommended for all four-stroke gasoline diesel
engines operating under severe service and subjected
to wide variations in climatic conditions.


Delo 100 - https://www.cbest.chevron.com/generated/MSDS/PDS7668475.PDF

Quote
APPLICATIONS
Chevron Delo 100 Motor Oils are recommended for use
in two- and four-stroke diesel engines in farm
machinery, construction equipment, marine, and other
off-highway applications.


(I guess they think, like most folks today, that 2-stroke engines aren't used on highway anymore.)

Also on the Delo 100 sheet:

Quote
comply with Detroit Diesel Corporation twostroke
engine recommendations, including the
0.85% ash maximum limit for Series 149 engines.


On the current Detroit Diesel Engine Lubrication Requirements datasheet - http://direct.detroitdiesel.com/Public/brochures/7SE270.pdf

For engine series "53, 71, 92 All Applications" it specifies 40wt with a sulphated ash content of less than 0.85% or 50wt with less than 0.80% ash.


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luvrbus
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« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2009, 07:16:40 AM »

Hightech, read the spec sheets that are available from any oil supplier and you will find that no engine oil manufactured in the USA after Jan 2008 and all will have less than 1% ash it is the law now, this is all I will say about this oil matter.  good luck
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buswarrior
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« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2009, 07:39:44 AM »

luvrbus, yes, the folks who refuse to keep up with the advances are frustrating, aren't they?

Please, let's be careful in tossing the "law" around, it's misleading.

To clarify, the "law" via the EPA, requires certain limits on exhaust outputs of the new engines, not oil formulation.

The elimination of ash in oil is not regulated per se, however, if an oil manufacturer wants to sell their oil, they need to formulate it so as to protect the mandated emission equipment. It would play hell if an engine manufacturer recommended NOT using your oil!!!

Moving forward, since everything new uses multi-grade oil,

How rare will it will be to find a single weight oil that is formulated to the new standards?
How soon until there will be no reference (and no testing) to Detroit Diesel 2-stroke standards?

I expect the market place will stay as it is now. The existing short list of "old style" oils, ie: Delo 100, Exxon XD3, Shell Rotella 40T, PetroCanada has one,  until there is no profitable demand for them.

happy coaching!
buswarrior

 
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luvrbus
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« Reply #25 on: January 19, 2009, 07:51:59 AM »

BW, your right I should have said that EPA mandates that engines oils contains less than 1% ash after Jan 2008 and it is frustrating some time if guys can not read about it on some web page it didn't happen. good luck
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« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2009, 08:05:52 AM »

I stand corrected.  I guess someone should let Chevron know that their current (July 2008) Delo 400 data sheet is incorrect.
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« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2009, 08:29:01 AM »

I always carry two cases of Delo 100 40w with me in case I want an oil change on the road, and more specifically from any type of failure.  4 years ago, coming back from Rickreall, Or I was on Calif highway 299 from Redding to Eureka when my oil filter broke off dumping the oil out of the engine very quickly.  I had enough oil to refill my crankcase after the mechanic installed a replacement oil filter on the shoulder.  It is too hard to find the oil not to have it with you.
As to oils for 2 strokes-simple- if it is above 32 degrees, straight 40 CF-2 rated oil.  If you're running below 32 during the day, straight 30 CF-2 rated oil. NEVER 15w-40, and NEVER non detergent oils.  2 strokes naturally burn oil.  Anything from 800 miles a gallon (the lowest) to around 3,000 miles a gallon is normal.  If yours is higher, have the oil analyzed for fuel in the oil.  May have a leaking fuel injector that is adding to the oil supply.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
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« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2009, 08:43:49 AM »

Fellows you need to check the ratings on Delo 400 I have a D13 Volvo in my coach and the manual call for less than 1% ash oil and 400 is on the list and also my 60 series in the trucks calls for the same and I use 400 15-40 in all 28 trucks.When I get time today I will check the contents on one of the barrels, but I do know that engine oils where reformulated last year as the other 2 have stated. maybe Chevron needs to update their rating which they will do when all the old formula oils are gone.   


David
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TomC
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« Reply #29 on: January 19, 2009, 08:46:04 AM »

David- 2 stroke engines require CF-2 rated oils-that are nothing like the new current 15w-40 oils with low ash for use in the new engines that have particulate traps.  Please don't intermix the two.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
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