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Author Topic: What was going on at Quartzsite AZ  (Read 5150 times)
VanTare
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« on: January 19, 2009, 10:36:09 AM »

Going home from CA to TX SAT morning there were looked to be over a hundred buses to the south of I 10 in the desert there I  heard about a Eagle bus rally but these were not all Eagles I saw 1 new Prevost and some I have no idea what they were.Got answers anybody


David
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« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2009, 10:38:26 AM »

http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=10636.msg109449#msg109449
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VanTare
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« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2009, 10:44:38 AM »

Hightechredneck that is the rally I knew about there could not be that many Eagles around of different models or could there be ?



David
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« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2009, 10:49:49 AM »

That was it though. But also, I've seen mentioned that this year they opened it up to a couple other bus models including GM.  I thought the other was MCI, but it may have been Prevost.
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Van
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« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2009, 10:53:28 AM »

Eagles,flexible's,and Gm's . Our first bus rally and we had a blast !

the only down side for us was blowing the engine (again   Cry),but not even that could keep us from attending Grin
« Last Edit: January 19, 2009, 10:58:41 AM by THE BIKE WHISPERER » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2009, 10:55:06 AM »


Up side to this ,being at the rally ,we found a new engine to replace the old one and meet the nicest group of people having the time of their lives (what bus nuts do when they hit the road),more later. Van
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« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2009, 11:01:09 AM »

the only down side for us was blowing the engine (again   Cry),but not even that could keep us from attending Grin

That is a really huge down side.  I'm glad you enjoyed the rally anyway though.
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VanTare
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« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2009, 11:03:14 AM »

TBW what brand of bus was the ones painted red and creme colors that look like they were from the 1950's era cool looking rigs I don't see them in your picture    

David
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Van
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« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2009, 11:06:13 AM »

VT,that was the most thrill for me was seeing a fully restored flexible absolutely beautiful.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2009, 11:08:19 AM by THE BIKE WHISPERER » Logged

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VanTare
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« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2009, 11:14:22 AM »

Thank you TBW I am new to buses do these people restore the older buses like old cars ?   



David
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Van
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« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2009, 11:19:03 AM »

Thanks nick,at least we got to camp overnight while waing for our rescuers from GREAT WEST towing to arrive sat morning,was a little unnerving being only a foot and a half from the road way. Cheryl said she was amazed at how calm I was during the break down,guess after the last time I have become de sensitized which helped in dealing with the situation.

  VT here's another shot.
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« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2009, 11:22:35 AM »

David ,I would have to say so ,they looked like they just rolled off the assembly line.
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« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2009, 11:50:36 AM »

I maybe changing the subject but I think Van tare has his question answered. I was wondering how many miles on your engine since last rebuild and why did it blow up and was it completely toast?
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VanTare
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« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2009, 12:10:39 PM »

I have 1 more question for you TBW I saw a bus that looked like a small Senicruiser that I remember from when I was kid did they have 2 models of the Senicruiser or was that a different bus also      thank you 

David
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« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2009, 12:42:13 PM »

Did Jay Leno bring his Flx?
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« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2009, 01:04:12 PM »



Here's a few more photos from the joint GMC/Flxible/Eagle rally held at Quartzsite last weekend:


http://www.busnut.com/bbs/messages/11/25955.html?1232398198


There were over 100 buses gathered around for this event, roughly split 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 by brand.  I also saw some MCIs and Prevosts scattered here and there, but there was no organized rally for them that I was aware of.

Leno's Flx was not there - had it been it would have been the highlight of the rally.

The turquoise Flxible Visicoach in the center of Bike Whisperer's photo is owned by Jim Craig, of S. CA.  You can see a photo of his toad if you follow the link above.

David -  If you follow the link above, you'll see a GMC Scenicruiser conversion, and also one of the Flxibles that you're thinking of as being the 2nd Scenic model.

FWIW & HTH. . .

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Van
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« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2009, 01:10:49 PM »

I maybe changing the subject but I think Van tare has his question answered. I was wondering how many miles on your engine since last rebuild and why did it blow up and was it completely toast?


 Grant,dont know the mileage since last rebuild,although we just put on new set of heads 100 mi ago after this happened last time due to a faulty radiator wich also was replaced along with the heads.I suspect the hydraulic pump leaked out it's fluid and thus not enough pressure to operate the cooling fan.pulled over when temp started to climb above 190 .I think pretty much seeing water coming from the air box tube that she over heated real good . The gauge had to be off considerable .this is the second time on this motor ,which means a complete new rebuild would have to be in order,and would be a lot cheper in the long run to get a pull out instead which Don Fairchild already had one lined up for us even before we finally arrived in Quartzsite.Insidently Pogressive road side assistance did an outstanding job in getting a Landoll for us and getting the bus back cudos.


David there were at least one senicruiser there that we saw.

Paul ,did'nt see leno but that don't mean he was'nt there
« Last Edit: January 19, 2009, 01:13:27 PM by THE BIKE WHISPERER » Logged

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« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2009, 03:08:03 PM »

My computer is given me fits so here's a link(I hope)to my photo bucket side for the rest of the Quartzsite photo's
http://s457.photobucket.com/albums/qq292/cwvanhagen/
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« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2009, 03:25:39 PM »

Van, It's too bad Jay Leno wasn't there with his Flx. I have seen his collection and it's truly amazing what he has been able to do.

Maybe next year. I'll get in touch with my buddy and have him ask Jay to bring his Flx next year.

Hope you are able to get that Eagle back on the road very soon!

Paul
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« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2009, 10:30:07 AM »

From what I think your telling me your cooling sytem let you down and yuor gauge was out. Man that sucks! Makes me think I should be installing a secondary temp. gauge. Maybe a manual gauge. Has anybody done this?? It seems that there has been a few engines blown lately due to overheating.

All the best to ya!
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« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2009, 10:52:28 AM »

Jack Conrad was recently showing me his dash setup (a very impressive dash array in my opnion).  He has separate temp gauges for each head plus several other additional instruments to monitor the drive train.  Someday I would love to implement something similar in my bus.  I like the aircraft instrumentation approach - that way you can see a lot more of what is going on right from the driver seat.
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« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2009, 11:02:19 AM »

This may sound a little over kill,but after going down this road again I started thinking about all new monitoring for the engine compartment to include video .Was thinking it might make a good addition to the equiptment already in use,shus beig able to see the things which are inpossible to see under way,leaks ,smoke or even fire for that matter,what do you think?
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« Reply #22 on: January 20, 2009, 11:16:23 AM »

video would help . A person sure can't tell what the hec is going on way back there if a gauge goes for crap. That is a disadvantage of not having the motor up front. After countless days of listening to my motor in the big truck I had it down to a science just by the sound. Then again when I got tired I also would hear things haha . I sure like the idea of a temp gauge for each head!
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Dallas
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« Reply #23 on: January 20, 2009, 12:24:09 PM »

To be honest, and I'm not trying to be hateful or put you down, but I think your major problem is that you aren't watching the dash gauges you have or they are so inaccurate, that they are worthless.

I grew up driving trucks, all kinds of trucks, anything from a hand truck to a big truck with over 100 tires on the ground. Some had outriggers, some had jeep axles, some had big engines, some had little shiney 290 Cummins engines. The bottom line was that I was taught to scan the dash, forward, to the left, to the rear Left, to the dash, to the to the Right and to the right dash and repeat.
This takes about 8 seconds, and always gives you an update of what the surrounding conditions are.
Too many people think that the gauges on the dash are going to make major changes when something goes wrong... unfortunately, that isn't even close to true. All the information in the world is available on your dash, just look for a minor change and compare it to conditions you've been in before.
Here's a for instance... My oldy PD4103 runs well for about 3 hours per day, but after that the temp gauge starts to climb and will steady out at about 240F then the rest of the day it will stay right there, whether I'm running big hills, little hills, flats or down hill. The first 6 or 7 times it happened, I pulled off the road when the gauge reached 195F, the mechanical gauge on the engine read 170F (what the Thermostats are set at). I also checked with my Laser Temp gun, and got lower readings even yet, probably because I had to go find it and the time in between let the engine cool more.
Another time I watched the gauge go up and down, up and down, up and down about 5F over and over again.. this indicated to me that the coolant was low or the thermostat was stuck. After about 2 minutes of this on a two lane road I found a place to pull off. When I checked, the surge tank was empty, and the engine was running about 30F hotter at the heads.
I found a blown hose that was weeping with force, not a spray, but not a drip either. I replaced the hose, added water and went on my merry way.
If I hadn't been WATCHING THE GAUGES I would have lost the engine.
I think that no matter how many bells, whistles, lights, alarms and doodads you have, unless you are paying attention to the gauges, the sound of the engine, the feel of the pedal and even the feel of the steering, you'll end up having problems in the long run.

I hate to her that you lost your engine again, and I really hope it's not FUBAR.

I hate downers, and I never want to be one.

Dallas

This may sound a little over kill,but after going down this road again I started thinking about all new monitoring for the engine compartment to include video .Was thinking it might make a good addition to the equiptment already in use,shus beig able to see the things which are inpossible to see under way,leaks ,smoke or even fire for that matter,what do you think?
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« Reply #24 on: January 20, 2009, 02:12:28 PM »

I can't agree more with you Dallas. Gauges are everything! They are the engines way of talking to you. I do think the temp gauge is $$**ed though. He said he pulled over when the gauge climbed over 190. There's no way anything should go at that temp or even 200 is there? or is that your point on not paying attention to the gauges. Just kind of wondering about that 190 degree thing. I'm no mechanic but if I was running 190 or even a little higher I wouldn't worry too much.
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« Reply #25 on: January 20, 2009, 02:22:32 PM »

Jack Conrad was recently showing me his dash setup (a very impressive dash array in my opnion).  He has separate temp gauges for each head plus several other additional instruments to monitor the drive train.  Someday I would love to implement something similar in my bus.  I like the aircraft instrumentation approach - that way you can see a lot more of what is going on right from the driver seat.


I explained our system here   http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=10801.0 
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« Reply #26 on: January 20, 2009, 02:34:52 PM »

Dallas,

I don,t have the experience you have, but what I have told me,

1) The gauge on the dash shot over and pegged out immediately, at that time smoke started pouring from the rear of the bus. NO WARNING.
2) The first time I lost a cylinder gasket, I was not watching the gauges nor did I know ( which was probably the reason for the heating problem) That on there were two filters primary and secondary.The primary was 95% blocked.

3) The second time I blew a cylinder head gasket was in California, on the hills I watched the temp gauge creep up to around 205 always backing of to be sure I stayed under 205. I also had a gauge  from the engine piped though to the rear bed room. Co pilot Kept a check on it . Also prior to this always checked with the hand held temp pistol. Which are NOT AT ALL accurate, and only to be used as a guide. After all this I still had a gasket blow.
I dont know how you are able to have a temp your 4103 of 240??

I do have lots of experience changing Bus radiators, power assist rams,pumps,cylinder head gaskets,brakes,seals,bearings,air bags,suspensions,engines. for myself and other people.Only with the help of fellow bus nuts, Luke, Bill and my wife Tami.

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« Reply #27 on: January 20, 2009, 03:18:03 PM »

I would have to agree with Dallas. If my dad, who was a trucker all his life, taught me anything about being on the road, it was to constantly watch the gauges, and I do religously. The bus we have now makes watching the gauges a LITTLE easier since it has monitors and sensors but I STILL watch my gauges!

Ace
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Van
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« Reply #28 on: January 20, 2009, 03:35:09 PM »

Dallas,I'm going to tell you honestly ,that yes you do sound a little hateful and are trying to put some one down (not me).I too have driven every thing under the sun and then some,but that's not the issue .This engine was already weak from the start and only had 100 mi on it since installing the new heads , so yes of course the gauges were being monitored constantly,which caused me to shut it down right away.the engine is not seized ,so when I stated that it was toast that was only a figure of speech.Obviously there are other issues afoot with this engine,the radiator was replaced with a new one.Thermostats,water pump,blocked core ,what ever ,it's still toast to me and it's outta there .A new 6v92 is already in the works and long over due, so am I upset about it? ,not hardley .Will I Freak out like the first time ?,don't think so,and who do I owe for  my confidence ?,you guy's here on the boards,those bus nuts that have a heart to pay foward ,what was payed foward to them,as I will pay foward to those in need of help .I understand how frustrating it can be listening to folks lose a motor due to not watching and monitoring,but just imagine how they feel with their own heart aches and sorrow.Fortunately for me We do not fall into that category so lighten up a little ,life is good :)Van

P.S we will get to the bottom of the heating issue's with this engine.but not until I get the new one in,keep ya'll posted Cool
    
« Last Edit: January 20, 2009, 03:55:52 PM by THE BIKE WHISPERER » Logged

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Dallas
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« Reply #29 on: January 20, 2009, 05:11:48 PM »

Even though it sounds that way, I really wasn't castigating you. I hate that it came out that way.

However I do know just how fast problems can arise with a 2 stroke. These are some of the best engines ever designed and as tough as circa 1938 cast iron can be, but they can also be as finicky as a bride at the makeup table before her wedding.

With these engines it doesn't take long to do a lot of damage because of heat. That is the reason for the constant monitoring of the gauges.
These engines are a lot like their bigger brothers, the 6-110 which was tried in over the road trucks for a very short time. The problem with the 6-110's is that they would overheat quickly when used with a variable speed governor and as a consequence, blow a head gasket or spin a bearing in a very short time.

Oh, and John....
My 240 temp reading is false. According to my mechanical gauge in the engine compartment and my hand held temp gun, the temp is fine. I attribute the discrepancy to most likely a bad sending unit or some other electrical malfunction. I know longer worry about it as much because it happens like clockwork. After 3 hours of driving, the temp will creep up to around 240 and sit there for the rest of the day, even after the engine has been shut down for a couple of hours.

I apologize if any of this came out wrong, as none of it was meant as anything other than informative.

Dallas
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« Reply #30 on: January 20, 2009, 06:14:14 PM »

Dallas ,no worries bud.Having gone down this same road with the same plant I've become de sensitized to the problems .Now when I start having things falling off the eagle then I'll be pretty upset,but thank god we're good in that respect. Cheesy
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« Reply #31 on: January 21, 2009, 02:18:22 AM »

What was happening with the high temp shut down switch? Doesn't an eagle have those?  I have been shut down several times with MCI's in colorado due to the engine overheating..Not Eagles? Shocked
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« Reply #32 on: January 21, 2009, 07:43:48 AM »

Glad to hear everything is working out, and glad to hear everyone is getting a long. Just a note , through all these posts there are guys such as myself who read every line with an open mind wanting to learn. Just want to thank you guys for all the info.
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« Reply #33 on: January 21, 2009, 08:03:20 AM »

What was happening with the high temp shut down switch? Doesn't an eagle have those?  I have been shut down several times with MCI's in colorado due to the engine overheating..Not Eagles? Shocked

Bj Hi,my eagle is an 1989 model 15 ,thought to have had a ddec originaly but found out it had a (MUI)mechanical unit injection 6V92TA in it ,So it doesn't have a shut down flapper there like maybe some of the other models might have had.that being said the conditions were as such,very steep grade(up),unfamilliar road at night,and blind curves with no where to pull off the pavement,I'm kinda glad that it didn't shut down otherwise it could have turned out to be a very dangerous situation for us as well as for others trying to make that grade.As stated in an earlier post that we were moitoring the temp gauge which was no easy task as the bulb was very dim and had the mag light in hand checking every 30 seconds or so.

        Let me say this real Quick,a rear engine vehicle is something new altogether for us ,so not being able to hear the engine and having a auto trans kinda put the kibosh on pulling the grade in an efficient manner .No excuses implyed here but had it been a standard probably would have had the engine at the proper RPM range to make it to the top.Now that being said it doesn't cover the over heat problem ,but it shure didn't help any that's for shure.While easing up for a blind sharp curve I actually should have had it spooled up for the climb at the end of the curve ,which we had no idea was coming up.What I have found out about an auto trans is relying on it to down shift in time for a hill is just plain wrong and after sharing the experience with the folks in Quarzsite  it was explained manual down shift to maintain rpms is the way to go,live and learn I guess  Roll Eyes
« Last Edit: January 21, 2009, 08:32:14 AM by THE BIKE WHISPERER » Logged

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« Reply #34 on: January 21, 2009, 09:24:35 AM »

Dallas,

What temperature do you have at the engine or water jacket when you had a reading on your drivers gauge of 240?

John
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Dallas
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« Reply #35 on: January 21, 2009, 09:55:42 AM »

John,
Usually the temp runs anywhere from 160 to 180 when the dash gauge shows 240. That is at the water jacket where the water manifold connects to the head. Even after the engine has sat for an hour after shutdown, if I start it back up again, it will climb to 240 in just a few minutes.
The engine is cool enough that I can put my hand on the side of it in many places without getting burned too quickly.

Dallas



Dallas,

What temperature do you have at the engine or water jacket when you had a reading on your drivers gauge of 240?

John
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