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Author Topic: swapping a 84 6v92 with an Allison 654 to a cummings L10,M11,ISL,ISM A 4060  (Read 10902 times)
hturner12
Hugh Turner
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« on: January 26, 2009, 04:29:32 PM »

Hello everyone
I know this subject has probably been brought up several times in the past. I have been trying to do the research on it thorough the search engine. I have an 84 wanderlodge PT40 (40' with tag) 6v92 advertised at 330hp @2100 936lb ft torque @1200 , Allison MT654CR 5 speed  side mount radiator with  about a 150k on odometer.  My rear gear is a 355. We have had the bird about a for about a year and a half now.  We are committed to keeping the bird. I am considering an engine tranny repower. I would like to go with a cummins electronic  somewhere around the 400hp area with the Allison 4060 6 speed. I want the better fuel economy and better performance. We are committed to keeping our bird. We waited to long to get it and unless money rains from the sky will we consider getting rid of it. I have been told to go with  we L10 mechanical 4060 6 sped. After reading some of the previous post it appears that M11,ISM and ISL  are shorter smaller in length and ways about 500# lighter.

I know there are many that will say do not do it or it's my money I can do what I want with it. I also know what opinions are like not to be rude or mean , if you have never done one or that the attitude do as you will pleas do not post your comments keep them to your self. I am looking for good reliable information to help me make the informed decision on what I am considering.

I know the biggies are: see in what modifications have to be made to the bird engine bay: possible change length of drive shaft.
I have a big concern about getting all of the wiring to the right places, electronic harnesses make sure I get the push pad for the transmission and all of the  ECM and
senors plus. the throttle switch

What changes will I have to make to the dash and ignition switch?
What other pitfalls that I may come across?
Would I have to go with a shorter oil pan if one is made?
Does anyone know where I could find a wreck that had the same step up? The truck engines I have found  online all seem to be between 500k and just short of 1 m on miles?

I do not know if I sat my signature up right here it is just in case

Hugh Turner
1984 Wanderlodge PT40

84 6v92  330 hp
Allison Mt654CR t seed no overdrive
Thomaston gA
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1984 Bluebird Wanderlodge
PT 40  pusher with tag axle (40')
6VTA 330 hp
Allison 654 5 speed
Tom Y
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80 5C With Cummins L10 in Progress




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« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2009, 06:54:50 PM »

Hugh, Heres one that you can look at under engine replacement. Brian has an auto shift instead of the Allison. Brian is a good person to talk to.  Tom Y http://home.earthlink.net/~diehls0792_1/BusSection10.html
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Tom Yaegle
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80 5C With Cummins L10 in Progress




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« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2009, 06:57:01 PM »

Hugh, Also the M11 and L10 are the same length and weight.  Tom Y
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Tom Yaegle
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« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2009, 11:07:04 PM »

Hugh- the Cummins (no g) L10, M11, and ISM are all the same block-of which Cummins is going to stop production on this engine at the end of 2009.  While your 6V-92TA and the Cummins ISM weigh about the same, my choice for engine would be the recent Cummins ISL with common rail fuel injection (very quiet and fuel efficient).  It will be about 500lb lighter then the 6V-92TA and cheaper to work on.  The main advantage is that the ISL is to be made well into the future.  If in the future the govnt decides to have us upgrade our old style engines to new, the ISL will be able to comply.  Another advantage to the Cummins ISL, is that you can use the Allison 3000MH instead of the bigger 4000 series.  The disadvantage is that your 3.55 rear end is too high ratio wise to take advantage of the six speeds.  The Cummins ISL should be geared to run at 1800rpm at cruise speed.  So guessing that you have 11R-22.5's on the bird that turn 500rpm, in 6th gear (.65) to get 1800rpm at 75mph you rear end ratio should be in the 4.44 range.  With your present 3.55, your 75 mph engine rpm in 4th gear direct would be 2218, in 5th gear (.75) would be 1664rpm (a bit low), and in 6th gear 1441-of which it wouldn't even shift into.  You could use it as a 5 speed though.  The nice thing about the Cummins ISL 8.9 liter is that is has 4 valves per cylinder, replaceable wet cylinder liners, and can be equipped with a real Jake Brake.  This will be my choice of engines in the future when my Cat 3406B will no longer be accepted in my truck conversion.  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
hturner12
Hugh Turner
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« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2009, 01:30:13 AM »

Hugh, Heres one that you can look at under engine replacement. Brian has an auto shift instead of the Allison. Brian is a good person to talk to.  Tom Y http://http://home.earthlink.net/~diehls0792_1/BusSection10.html


Tom
thank you for the contact person
Hugh
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1984 Bluebird Wanderlodge
PT 40  pusher with tag axle (40')
6VTA 330 hp
Allison 654 5 speed
hturner12
Hugh Turner
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« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2009, 02:25:56 AM »

TomC
you are right about 11R.22.5. This exactly why I joined busconversions and posted this message, to get god feedback and to avoid costly mistakes
Thanks
[/quote]
« Last Edit: January 27, 2009, 02:44:23 AM by hturner12 » Logged

1984 Bluebird Wanderlodge
PT 40  pusher with tag axle (40')
6VTA 330 hp
Allison 654 5 speed
mikelutestanski
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Mikes Metal Mistress




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« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2009, 08:25:42 AM »

Hello:
    I have a mechanical   1989  L10 with an Alison B400R with a 4.625 rear end.    I converted my 1972 MCI 7 from an 8V71/ 740 to the Cummins. The allison has double overdrive with .84 and .64. With a 37000 lb coach I get 7.5 average mileage.  I have about 4500 miles on the bus since the conversion.
    The mechanical L10 is about 2 inches shorter  (height measurement)  that the Later computer model L10 . This engine is 270 hp stock and can be able to set higher to about 300 . The tranny is rated officially at 290 hp.
      This package is 84 inches long but requires 86 inches because of the oil cooler fittings on the back of the tranny. The tranny is 30 inches long and rectangular  ( no tail shaft).  The output flange is right next to the transmission body.
     I believe you can get about 1 to 2 mpg better fuel mileage if you go with a computer motor.   The price is higher and parts are more expensive however its your money your choice..   A 50 series would work but you need the right transmission and adaptor plates to get it right.
     My best advice is to buy a transit or a truck with all the parts on it and transplant everything you need.  If you do that you have all the parts available. The trick is to find what you want.

      Regards and Happy bussin   mike
 
   
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Mike Lutestanski   Dunnellon Florida
  1972 MCI 7
  L10 Cummins  B400R  4.625R
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« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2009, 08:45:12 AM »

Why use a Cummins the 1995 BlueBirds PT had a series 60 470 hp engine better choice than one of the Cummins mention here 


David
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John316
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MCI 1995 DL3, DD S60, Allison B500.




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« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2009, 09:02:23 AM »

I'll second that the S60 is a wonderful engine. We absolutely love ours. Give the S60 some serious consideration.

FWIW

God bless,

John
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MCI 1995 DL3. DD S60 with a Allison B500.
RichardEntrekin
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« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2009, 09:14:19 AM »

You might want to look at this thread also..

http://www.wanderlodgeownersgroup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2063
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Richard Entrekin
95 Newell, Detroit S 60
Subaru Outback toad
Huntington WV

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TomC
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« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2009, 03:33:09 PM »

Yes the Series 60 is a wonderful engine, but it is absolutely HUGE in size.  If you could see the Series 60 next to the Cummins L10/M11/ISM, you could see the difference in installation ease.  And the ISM can be built up to a 500hp with 1550lb/ft torque-close enough to the Detroits maximum of 515hp and 1650lb/ft torque.  Then if you put the Cummins ISL next to the other two-it is even smaller in size, yet puts out 425hp and 1250lb/ft torque in RV setting-and is 1,000lb lighter then the Series 60!  Good Luck, TomC
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Tom & Donna Christman. '77 AMGeneral 10240B; 8V-71TATAIC V730.
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« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2009, 04:08:46 PM »

Tom your right about the weight but the difference is like a thoroughbred and a mule I have friends that own BlueBirds and none like the Cunmmins 1 has a C-13 Cat and loves it.fwiw I have 2 ISX  models in KW trucks and one is in New Oreleans now with a blown engine 83,000 miles second time if it has a I or painted red I run.     


David
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Tom Y
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80 5C With Cummins L10 in Progress




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« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2009, 07:32:15 PM »

Hugh, Does your Bluebird have enough length to fit in a inline 6?  Tom Y 
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Tom Yaegle
hturner12
Hugh Turner
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« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2009, 10:50:07 PM »

You might want to look at this thread also..


Rick
I followed on Woody's change over. He had to build 8'' so everything fits.He now call it Bertha Butt

http://http://www.wanderlodgeownersgroup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2063
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1984 Bluebird Wanderlodge
PT 40  pusher with tag axle (40')
6VTA 330 hp
Allison 654 5 speed
hturner12
Hugh Turner
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« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2009, 10:52:20 PM »

Why use a Cummins the 1995 BlueBirds PT had a series 60 470 hp engine better choice than one of the Cummins mention here 


David

David
I like the Cummins. When I was working as a wrench bender  for J.B. Hunt got a lot of time on them
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1984 Bluebird Wanderlodge
PT 40  pusher with tag axle (40')
6VTA 330 hp
Allison 654 5 speed
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