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Author Topic: Hydro Flame update  (Read 4326 times)
Airbag
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« on: February 03, 2009, 09:02:17 PM »

Well it's late and I'm done with the screw drivers in the garage disassembling the heater and now it's time for another kind of screwdriver.

If anyone one is running one of these older units and has not look at the firebox I strongly recommend doing so and soon or having a monoxide detector in the bus. Mine has some bad cracks and alot of rust inside. You can see a couple of spot welds that have blown out letting combustion products into the cabin. The pile of rust on the floor is what came out of the firebox. I wonder if mine has been repaired for you can see the outer cans have regular welds and the middle can has a friction welded seam. Odd



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Tenor
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« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2009, 05:15:15 AM »

Definitley time for a new one!

Glenn
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Glenn Williams
Lansing, MI
www.threemenandatenor.com
1968 MCI 7 Ser. No. 7476 Unit No. 10056
8v71
4 speed Spicer
Airbag
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« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2009, 07:51:54 AM »

Definitley time for a new one!

Glenn

You are right! The only real choice for my space is the suburban furnace. I sure hate to lose the quality of the older one with its metal blower and squirrel cages. The new ones are all plastic "yuck". Not much choice for I haven't found a new firebox for the HF.
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Tenor
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« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2009, 08:46:46 AM »

Airbag,
I just put in 2 suburban sf-25's into my bus and they put out the heat!  My 2 year old assistant dropped a 3 inch screw into a blower, and that's how I found out that the squirrell fan's were still steel!  I like having 2, since I basically have 2 zones and redundancy.  The other nice thing about them is that the exhaust/intake is a small hole in the side of the bus.  I've built cabinetry to allow for maintenance/repair.  Just some info for ya fwiw.  Good luck!

Glenn
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Glenn Williams
Lansing, MI
www.threemenandatenor.com
1968 MCI 7 Ser. No. 7476 Unit No. 10056
8v71
4 speed Spicer
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« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2009, 10:50:17 AM »

Hey Tenor, you got picture's LOL you know how most of us busnuts are addicted to pictures of anything on, in, or on top of a bus. Man you should be horse whipped with a wet noodle for coming on here and talking about your bus without pictures. But if you post a few pictures I'm sure the punishment can be commuted by the supreme court of bus judges.

WVaNative

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Airbag
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« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2009, 04:40:25 PM »

Airbag,
I just put in 2 suburban sf-25's into my bus and they put out the heat!  My 2 year old assistant dropped a 3 inch screw into a blower, and that's how I found out that the squirrell fan's were still steel!  I like having 2, since I basically have 2 zones and redundancy.  The other nice thing about them is that the exhaust/intake is a small hole in the side of the bus.  I've built cabinetry to allow for maintenance/repair.  Just some info for ya fwiw.  Good luck!

Glenn

That's good to hear, I checked with my local RV service center and they get almost 1K for a 30btu unit. Same heater on e-bay 499 go figure. Thanks for the info Glenn
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« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2009, 06:51:29 PM »

CAMPING WORLD MAY BE CHEAPER??
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Airbag
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« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2009, 07:14:16 PM »

CAMPING WORLD MAY BE CHEAPER??

Their club price is about sixty dollars more than the e-bay store after shipping. Probably a safer bet though. Warranty is most likely through the manufacturer?
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« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2009, 07:23:42 PM »

Airbag,

I am disappointed.  You mean Hydroflame no longer sells replacement heat exchangers to fit your unit?  I know mine won't last forever and I like it.

I thought the Suburban was the furnace that installed from the outside of the coach.  Needed no convenient access from the inside.  The distribution plenum is installed and hoses connected from the interior but then the  furnace slides into the plenum from the outside.

A friend had the Sub in his 5th wheel and it was a bummer.  That thing made so much noise that you had to turn the TV way up to hear the TV over the racket.  I ran the air intake to the other side of the cabnet and cut a hole so the air intake was from the outside door area.  That is the coldest spot and it also let the "induction roar" dissipate into the interior of the cabnet.  It was still unbearable, although very much improved.  I got it quiet by gluing monster sized washers on the furnace plenum and gluing 1X2's on the inside surface of the cabnet walls.  After all that it was whisper quiet.  Do this(soundproof) to the furnace and enclosure "before" you seal everything up, no matter what model you go with.

The RV mfrs used a lot of clothes dryer exhaust duct to distribute the air.  That stuff has a corrugated interior and severely impedes air flow.  A better choice would be the flex duct that is sold for homes.  It is also insulated and has nice fresh silver coating on the outside.  The trick is to make the run fast at one end and then pull hard on the interior Mylar plastic interior duct from the free end to get out all the kinks and folds.  HVAC guy showed me that.  Maybe Nick has more to add.

HTH

John  
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Airbag
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« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2009, 07:51:44 PM »

Airbag,

I am disappointed.  You mean Hydroflame no longer sells replacement heat exchangers to fit your unit?  I know mine won't last forever and I like it.

I thought the Suburban was the furnace that installed from the outside of the coach.  Needed no convenient access from the inside.  The distribution plenum is installed and hoses connected from the interior but then the  furnace slides into the plenum from the outside.

A friend had the Sub in his 5th wheel and it was a bummer.  That thing made so much noise that you had to turn the TV way up to hear the TV over the racket.  I ran the air intake to the other side of the cabnet and cut a hole so the air intake was from the outside door area.  That is the coldest spot and it also let the "induction roar" dissipate into the interior of the cabnet.  It was still unbearable, although very much improved.  I got it quiet by gluing monster sized washers on the furnace plenum and gluing 1X2's on the inside surface of the cabnet walls.  After all that it was whisper quiet.  Do this(soundproof) to the furnace and enclosure "before" you seal everything up, no matter what model you go with.

The RV mfrs used a lot of clothes dryer exhaust duct to distribute the air.  That stuff has a corrugated interior and severely impedes air flow.  A better choice would be the flex duct that is sold for homes.  It is also insulated and has nice fresh silver coating on the outside.  The trick is to make the run fast at one end and then pull hard on the interior Mylar plastic interior duct from the free end to get out all the kinks and folds.  HVAC guy showed me that.  Maybe Nick has more to add.

HTH

John  


I am saddened by this also. Mike at az salvage was supposed to call me today said he had two DC82,s used and the combustion chambers were removed. I was hoping he had some low time units. He never called I plan to give him a call tomorrow but I expect the worst. The suburban NT30 looks like a close copy of the Hydro Flame that I have. I would sleep better knowing the firebox is new. Atwood is Hydro Flame now and they sell nothing like this only the wide pancake models that require the huge cut-out. I never did call Atwood I just assumed they would not be making the part, I will call them.


Suburban NT30

« Last Edit: February 04, 2009, 08:05:43 PM by Airbag » Logged
Tenor
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« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2009, 08:26:56 PM »

Sorry about the mess, but I've been doing the woodwork this winter.  The pictures I took tonight in the dark, and it's -3 outside.  You can see the front furnace on the road side of the bus.  I also have a heater core run from the DD and a second smaller one run from the genset.  The other furnace is in the bunk/bathroom area under the bunk, against the rear main bedroom wall.  It heats both areas nicely.  Thanks for the help with posting pictures everyone!

Glenn
« Last Edit: February 04, 2009, 08:30:11 PM by Tenor » Logged

Glenn Williams
Lansing, MI
www.threemenandatenor.com
1968 MCI 7 Ser. No. 7476 Unit No. 10056
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« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2009, 08:38:22 PM »

Here is looking forward.

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Glenn Williams
Lansing, MI
www.threemenandatenor.com
1968 MCI 7 Ser. No. 7476 Unit No. 10056
8v71
4 speed Spicer
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« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2009, 08:47:36 PM »



Bathroom looking rear.  Trying the Photobucket thing.
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Glenn Williams
Lansing, MI
www.threemenandatenor.com
1968 MCI 7 Ser. No. 7476 Unit No. 10056
8v71
4 speed Spicer
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« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2009, 06:18:12 AM »

Make darn sure you have a CO detector in your bus!

On my first big trip one of my friends left one of those ventless propane heaters running overnight in the bus.  The CO detector went off around 3 am.  Any heat from the heater went out the windows when we opened them.
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« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2009, 06:56:14 AM »

Make darn sure you have a CO detector in your bus!
On my first big trip one of my friends left one of those ventless propane heaters running overnight in the bus.  The CO detector went off around 3 am.  Any heat from the heater went out the windows when we opened them.

CO detector is important, not only for your CO producing equipment, but also to detect CO entering your coach from neighboring RVs.  Jack
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« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2009, 07:32:04 AM »

I pulled one out of a scrapped trailer, and it told me right away how important good ventilation around your genset is!  I made a deliberate test, not an accident.

Glenn
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Glenn Williams
Lansing, MI
www.threemenandatenor.com
1968 MCI 7 Ser. No. 7476 Unit No. 10056
8v71
4 speed Spicer
Airbag
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« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2009, 07:37:46 AM »

I just got off the phone with Atwood and the man in parts was very helpful. He did not laugh when I told him I had a DC82 furnace. He said they did not make the firebox anymore but he had one left in stock in Saltlake City. So I will hold my breath for three days while I await it's arrival.

Now what I'd like to know is why didn't any of the many RV service centers I called take the time to procure this part from Atwood themselves and make a profit? Instead they left me with the feeling this thing did not exist. In my business I will bend over backwards for my customers and try to make a sale for it pays big dividends. Customers remember things like that and sometimes will give me their airplane for an annual inspection or other major work.

Glenn That's nice work. Is that a MC-7 or 9? Oh I see it's a 7. I see you will be in AZ on the 22th. Not to far from my home maybe I can make it up there, Is it open to the public?
« Last Edit: February 05, 2009, 07:47:33 AM by Airbag » Logged
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« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2009, 07:59:41 AM »

Air,

For the record I replaced my heat exchanger/air box in 92.  Still going strong and I have installed a co sensor/alarm. 

Glad to hear you found one.  Don't be too upset if you need a welder to modify it to get it to fit. Mine was way off.

I think mine rusted out originally because rain will get into the hot exhaust pipe and drain in to the box.  Think blowing rain.  Maybe a hood or something that doesn't obstruct the air flow but deflects the rain.

John

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"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
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Airbag
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« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2009, 08:03:59 AM »

Air,

For the record I replaced my heat exchanger/air box in 92.  Still going strong and I have installed a co sensor/alarm. 

Glad to hear you found one.  Don't be too upset if you need a welder to modify it to get it to fit. Mine was way off.

I think mine rusted out originally because rain will get into the hot exhaust pipe and drain in to the box.  Think blowing rain.  Maybe a hood or something that doesn't obstruct the air flow but deflects the rain.

John



John great minds think alike Grin My exhaust pipe has a slight incline incouraging water to flow into firebox. I was planing on addressing that problem with some kind of hood.


I will give a heads up to my welder (me)
« Last Edit: February 05, 2009, 08:07:25 AM by Airbag » Logged
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« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2009, 08:31:18 AM »

Air, think about sending the firebox to one of the companys that cerama coat exhaust headers etc.  It would probably greatly extend its life .  Just a thought.  John
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Airbag
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« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2009, 12:19:54 PM »

Air, think about sending the firebox to one of the companys that cerama coat exhaust headers etc.  It would probably greatly extend its life .  Just a thought.  John

John you are right that would be a plus for longevity. The negative would be reduced heat exchange for that tends to hold the heat reducing engine compartment temps and we want to do the opposite and it would make inspection more difficult and welding impossible.

I wish I could afford to buy the dies and fab some out of stainless they would last forever, well almost. I inspect exhaust heaters on aircraft that are stainless and they suffer cracks and burn through. A real bummer in flight, I was at 10,000 feet or so over Gila Bend on my way home from San Jose one cold night in my Cessna 170 and I fell asleep for a minute or two and woke up fortunately I then immediately opened the side window and turned the heat off. When I inspected the heat muffs later I found a fairly large crack. 
« Last Edit: February 05, 2009, 12:32:59 PM by Airbag » Logged
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« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2009, 02:00:48 PM »

Air, I used to keep one of the cardboard dots on the instrument panel, never had a clue if they really worked or not.  In another life I had aircraft but had to quit flying due to developing a inner ear disease  which there is no cure for.  Never had a 170 but had 182's and the worst of all a 190 that was a former airforce float plane that had an continental instead of the jacobs.  Hope We get to meet and BS someday.  You have a valid point about the heat insulating properties of the coatings.  John
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Airbag
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« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2009, 03:34:07 PM »

Air, I used to keep one of the cardboard dots on the instrument panel, never had a clue if they really worked or not.  In another life I had aircraft but had to quit flying due to developing a inner ear disease  which there is no cure for.  Never had a 170 but had 182's and the worst of all a 190 that was a former airforce float plane that had an continental instead of the jacobs.  Hope We get to meet and BS someday.  You have a valid point about the heat insulating properties of the coatings.  John

A 190 I am jealous!! Was that the W670 Continental 220 HP? I had a Stinson L-5 that was converted with one we called it the Toad it was so ugly. I no longer have any flyable airplanes due to some heart stents. I could still fly light sport. but hey owning a bus who has money to waste on silly things like airplanes.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2009, 03:36:50 PM by Airbag » Logged
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« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2009, 05:34:53 PM »

Air, don't be jealous, I used to buy rag bags at airports all over the country and get them airworthy and sell them to feed My family.  As an airforce enlisted aircrew member I needed part time money and flying eliminated normal part jobs.  One of the only planes I ever really had seller remorse over was the 190.  I never missed the heater in the overhead that once dripped burning gas.  By the way the animal had the crosswind gear if You are familar that.  Sorry to hijack Your thread but I like machinery and the ultimate toy is an airplane, I used to watch the crop dusters My dad hired and never dreamed that I would ever get to fly let alone have My own.  Thank the good lord for the USAF.  Flying is to expensive now even if I didn't have the problem with vertigo.  So the bus it is,actually more expensive than flying and the next best thing including the folks that own and love them. Regards, John
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Airbag
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« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2009, 06:23:35 PM »

No sweat on the thread unless Nick doesn't like us burning the band width. I have changed a few of those Goodyear crosswind gear over to Cleavland's. I did one set for a gal on her 195 and I test flew them and thought they were great but she put the thing up on it's nose immediately. Like you I have been around airplanes all my life, Dad retired from TWA starting on Connies and finally retiring on the L-1011. He used me for a wheel chock till I could hold a wrench. My Grandfather soloed in a Standard behind an OX-5. He and Dad have passed away and I sure miss them. We only get so many spins on this ball of dirt and vuuuut it's over.

I got the parts from the heater cleaned up and painted with high temp exhaust paint. I will put a new blower motor and maybe a new DSI board with a new igniter and flame sensor.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2009, 06:27:23 PM by Airbag » Logged
Old4103
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« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2009, 05:04:41 PM »

I just ran into these, if your interested, maybe they have other parts...

http://www.rvwholesalers.com/catalog/product.php?productid=2155&cat=86&page=1

http://www.rvwholesalers.com/catalog/product.php?productid=2157&cat=86&page=1
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Airbag
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« Reply #26 on: February 07, 2009, 12:38:27 AM »



Thanks
I believe I have already talked with them.

This guy has the most parts I have seen and is very helpful.

http://www.marksrv.com/hydroflameparts.htm
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