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Author Topic: Does tailing 18 wheelers actually work as drafting and save gas?  (Read 6739 times)
kyle4501
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« Reply #30 on: February 10, 2009, 11:55:34 AM »

Seemed to me it wasn't the question that was chastised, but rather the questioner's response to the passion some put into their answer.

There may be no dumb questions, but there is a definite possibility of dumb reactions to prudent answers.  Roll Eyes



But, with advancing CRS all is forgotten, so there is nothing to forgive. Therefore we're all still friends . . . . right?  Grin
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« Reply #31 on: February 10, 2009, 02:03:15 PM »

Kyle,

Whaaat?   Whoo?   I don't follow?      Gotcha!

John
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"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
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ilyafish
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« Reply #32 on: February 10, 2009, 06:52:42 PM »

ok, i apologize my response was a bit out of line.

I want you guys to hear me out on this, especially rick.  First off, you are all filled with a great amount of information and wisdom, which is why i asked the question in the first place.  Had i thought that my way was the right way, i would continue doing it and not ask...correct?  Secondly, the reason to me asking the question is due to my high level of inexperience.  i am 21 years old, and with the exception of starting last may when my band started touring, my driving was pretty much from one house to another, and not prolonged highway driving.  SO, when we started touring i noticed every other trucker was tailgating each other.  So that began to make me think if there was something more to this, and yes, i did not quite think of the consequences.  If you see one car driving 90mph, thats speeding.  You see 3 cars driving 90mph, thats racing.  You see almost every car driving 90mph you begin to think that 90mph must be the speed limit.  Thats the same mentality i had when i looked at truckers tailgating each other.  Im not saying that was right of me, if anything it was foolish, im just explaining where i got my question from.

Secondly, i should have used better words than 'i try to do it as much as i can'.....that translates to about 10 minutes a day (still 10 minutes too much) but it came off as every time im on the road i do it.  Again, not saying that 10 min a day is any better than 5 hours a day, but you get my point.

Rick, i apologize that you get the impression that i am trying to get away with as much as i can.  Trust me, if i wanted to do that, i would be doing alot more than tailgating and taking trash oil.  I am learning the same things alot of you guys learned decades ago.  Which, again, is why i asked this question.  Because i would rather take a lesson someone else learned rather than to learn it myself.  I am not trying to 'get away' with anything.  I just failed to realize the severity of what i was doing.  And the book i quote at the bottom also explains why i quote it, because it mentions that we all make mistakes and that none of us are perfect.  And i realize the ones that i have made.

I also have never seen pictures of bus vs 18 wheeler wrecks.  Not going to lie....i kinda thought if anything were to happen it would be like a tank vs tank incident....not a tank vs paper mache (bus).  I overestimated the safety of a bus.

So, i hope this clears everything up.  If anybody still has hard feelings, i encourage that you message me privately, so we can work out our differences.
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« Reply #33 on: February 10, 2009, 07:07:24 PM »

Personally, I am miffed that at 21 you have this much maturity and humility.  I have always thought that humility was my long suit Roll Eyes 

Well, Studely...I was happy you were asking questions and even more so that you weren't terminally offended by the apparent tone of some of the answers.  I don't think the harshness was intended, really I don't.  Except maybe mine Tongue Grin Wink  This is a "flat" medium and it doesn't always come out nor be received as intended.

John
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"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
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John316
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« Reply #34 on: February 10, 2009, 07:14:52 PM »

Ilya,

I must say that I am impressed! I have know others on this board, that would have gotten offended and left the board over such a little thing like this. I am impressed with your honesty and humility. Maybe if more people would read the book that you have on your tag line, more people would have better attitudes in this world.

God bless,

John
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MCI 1995 DL3. DD S60 with a Allison B500.
HighTechRedneck
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« Reply #35 on: February 10, 2009, 07:15:59 PM »

Personally, I am miffed that at 21 you have this much maturity and humility. 

I agree.  Excellent demonstration of good character and attitude about learning.

Regarding the tank vs. paper mache comparison.  The front end of the bus is very vulnerable to collision, the rest of it is very solid.  The front end has 30,000-40,000 pounds worth of inertia containing mass behind it yet has a relatively minimal frame structure.  And the only heavy framing the front usually has is just about the right height to slip under the truck's rear end, leaving everything above that extremely crushable.

I do believe that is by intent.  Although I have said before that I wondered if it was intended to make the driver be more careful, I suspect it has to do with priorities.  The front end is built to be a crush zone to consume the energy of impact to minimize the energy transmitted to the passengers.  - Sacrifice the driver to save the passengers.

I often think it would be good to build a crash cage structure into the front end.  But it would take quite and engineering feat I suppose.
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Ed Hackenbruch
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« Reply #36 on: February 10, 2009, 07:43:57 PM »

Hmmm..... well, by asking questions you hopefully will learn things to do, or not to do, that may end up saving your life so that you can end up as old as some of us. God only knows why i am still alive after some of the things i have done or had done to me. Huh Grin
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JackConrad
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« Reply #37 on: February 11, 2009, 05:25:14 AM »

    As was already mentioned, post do not always come across as intended.  After spending 28 years as a paramedic on an emergency ambulance, I am probably a little lot more sensitive about driving issues involving the safety of everyone on the road.  I saw so much unnecessary death and serious injury that was the result of carelessness, negligence and just plain bad driving habits.
    I am impressed with our level of maturity for a 21 year old.  I wish I had been that mature when I was 21. Fortunately, I had a good (busy) guardian angel watching over me.  Jack
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« Reply #38 on: February 11, 2009, 05:44:34 AM »

Kudos to iminaccess!  Impressive!  With that kind of thoughtfulness and open mindedness you should have an very rewarding life.  Patrick.
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Jeremy
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« Reply #39 on: February 11, 2009, 05:46:18 AM »

The front end of the bus is very vulnerable to collision, the rest of it is very solid.  


Here's a nice demonstration of that, taken from this morning's news - this is a relatively low-speed accident on a country road, yet just look at how far that tree has buried itself inside the bus:



(Full news story here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7883133.stm)

This bus is a Plaxton too, which makes it worse!

Jeremy

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RickB
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« Reply #40 on: February 11, 2009, 05:57:30 AM »

First of all, I am moved by your honesty and willingness to admit that we are ALL imperfect. I agree wholeheartedly.

Having been in a car wreck when I was 17 in which my best friend was driving over the center line and a 17 year old boy from a neighboring city paid the ultimate price I have watched the 30 year conversation that my friend has had with himself everyday. Questions like "What was I thinking?" and "if I just wouldn't have...." to "if I could do it all over again" have repeated themselves for 30 years. I love kids (kids meaning 16 -22 years of age) and that love for them makes it difficult for me to not talk to them when I feel they may be heading down the road to the kind of conversations with themselves that my friend is gonna have the rest of his life. Whatever behavior it is racing, tailgating,
drunk driving, it's not worth it. I travel all over the states in our bus and speak to people about my accident which happened as a result of me stopping to help a drunk driver and getting hit by an uninsured driver who was drinking and cited for tailgating. I see the result at every stop when someone comes up and tells their story of wouldv'e could've should've's.
I saw it in Burke Virginia when a young girl came up to tell me that her three best friends had all bled to death while talking to her in a car while they waited for someone to come and help just three weeks before. She didn't think her decision to drink and drive was such a good idea at that point.

I did mean what I said about your life being yours. You are obviously free to choose your path, the hard part for me is when I see folks driving like they are trained, experienced race car drivers with three loaded car seats in the back. One person makes a choice for far more than themselves when they choose to do such thoughtless and selfish acts.

I never believed for one second that you struck me as a person who would knowingly endanger others lives and if I was too harsh in trying to keep you from having regretful "conversations" with yourself for the rest of your life than I am sorry and ask for your forgiveness. My intention was to keep you on the planet and therefore on this blog and also to keep you from a dangerous habit that has far reaching and unintended consequences for too many.

Sorry if I offended anyone else here as well... I guess I get the "speak the truth" part alot better then the "in love" part.

Rick



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Len Silva
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« Reply #41 on: February 11, 2009, 06:04:44 AM »

Truckers tailgating is not smart but..... there is a tremendous difference between a truck and a bus.  In a truck, the driver is sitting on top of a ton of engine/transmission and 8 feet behind the front bumper. He is relatively safe in a collision.  Consider how close your knees are to the bumper of a bus.

I'll bet if you watch closely, you won't see cabover trucks tailgating.
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« Reply #42 on: February 11, 2009, 07:45:07 PM »

Most of our coaches are not constructed to provide crash protection.

The engineering is to get the box to retain shape and carry the load for an extended time in commercial service.

Any crash worthiness is just happenstance.

The box had to be stiff enough in the front so that the windshields don't fall out with the flexing, andthe door will close consistantly.

without government regs, our cars would be the same.

happy coaching!
buswarrior
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NewbeeMC9
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« Reply #43 on: February 12, 2009, 05:58:45 AM »

I like to see through the big windshields so I don't like to tail gate.   also like to see as far down the road as i can.  The otherside is I like to rubberneck and thats where I can get in trouble.


As far as being tailgated, i dont worry about it so much in the bus, however being Mech. Inject., it has an anti-tailgate feature that is quite effective Cheesy.  Kinda like an octopus Grin.
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« Reply #44 on: February 12, 2009, 06:07:12 AM »

As far as being tailgated, i dont worry about it so much in the bus, however being Mech. Inject., it has an anti-tailgate feature that is quite effective Cheesy.  Kinda like an octopus Grin.

 Grin

Brings to mind a cool idea for a bumper sticker:

If you can read this, your vehicle has now been rust proofed and tinted.
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