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Author Topic: how many of you are running double mufflers on your gen set?  (Read 3546 times)
busshawg
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« on: February 23, 2009, 02:43:45 PM »

subject says it all, I have a Honda EV6010, was thinking of this option
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« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2009, 03:13:41 PM »

I was but probably won't continue to.  The actual exhaust noise is only a small fraction of the total generator noise. 
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« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2009, 03:16:56 PM »

What Bob says,,,,,

Bill
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busshawg
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« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2009, 03:18:27 PM »

Good to know, thanks Bob, Is there a downside to a second muffler besides cost?  I have been thinking of switching out my 6010 for one of those Honda 3000's. I have heard them run and they are nice and quiet. The down side is less power and I'd have to buy a remote acc. kit I guess so I can fire it up from inside.
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cody
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« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2009, 03:21:35 PM »

On our revcon I ran an automotive style muffler on the onan and it dramatically cut the exhaust noise but like was pointed out that is only a small part of the over all noise issue.  In regards to the honda 3000, mine is whisper quiet but the downside is that honda doesn't offer a factory remote for it because of the manual choke.  Interestingly, I've been looking at the 6010 lol, is that the liquid cooled one, can the radiator be remoted for it?
« Last Edit: February 23, 2009, 03:24:44 PM by cody » Logged
Tenor
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« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2009, 04:13:08 PM »

My 1965 (yes, that's the year!) Kohler 7.5KW gasoline model has 2 small automotive style mufflers.  Works great!

Glenn
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« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2009, 05:55:23 PM »

Grant,

I have a Honda EV6010 too and think it is great after my old noisy, shaky Onan. This thing is really quiet and no vibes anymore.The Onan used to shake the whole bus in spite of being mounted on huge rubber rings.

What type of box did you use? I made one of 1/2" plywood and lined it with sound deadening rubberized stuff from JCW covered by fireproof cloth from EHP.

I didn't use metal like the manual suggested because metal is so noisy. I can't imagine it being much quieter. 

Why don't you just stick another muffler on the exhaust pipe and find out and let us know what happens? I've thought of this but don't really have space for it except if I add an above the roof pipe for camping. If I do that I was thinking of adding another small muffler.
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cody
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« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2009, 06:03:25 PM »

can the radiator on the 6010 be remoted?
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fe2_o3
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« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2009, 07:29:55 PM »

Like Glenn I also have an ancient Kohler 7.5 KW gas with 2 small auto mufflers, but I converted it to propane. Dependable, quiet, and when gas was $5.00 propane was $3.00.   Cable
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« Reply #9 on: February 23, 2009, 07:37:59 PM »

Won't a second muffler create excessive back pressure?  Huh Just curious, Will
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« Reply #10 on: February 23, 2009, 08:02:10 PM »

Just more heat from the extra bearings LOL Roll Eyes
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« Reply #11 on: February 23, 2009, 09:37:23 PM »

PP,

Back pressure is a function the size of the inlet/outlet pipes and a lot of other stuff.  Auto mufs are typically so much larger than what an Onan would call for that they generate no back pressure at all.  Adding a second in series should do little to choke up the exhaust.  The absolute best muffling device is "back pressure" and my stock Onan item has pipes that are an inch at best.  Need to find another way!  A cherry bomb type is a really poor performer in cars but it might be ok for an Onan.  I would go with a small oval or round resonating chamber like a stock item you find on cars as their main muffler.  Smallest 4 banger displacement you can find.

Use a tube and see how much induction roar you have.  That might surprise you....don't know.  If it is loud try to find the air clearer and induction hose from a 4 banger and incorporate that into your gen design.  My induction on my Lexus is silent and that intsake looks like it was designed by someone having a bad acid trip.  It has chambers and turns that have apparently no function but they all add up to noise cancellation and silent running.

Good luck,

John
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« Reply #12 on: February 23, 2009, 10:05:38 PM »

Don't forget the high performance silencers.

The hospital grade ones do a lovely job, but are pricey.

Long round tubes...

Lost the links in the last computer failure...

happy coaching!
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« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2009, 05:04:18 AM »

When we installed our PowerTech diesel generator, I called PowerTech and asked about mufflers. I was told by PowerTech to use only 1 automotive type muffler.  I followed there advice.  We had had no problems and as others have mentioned, the exhaust is only a small part of the total noise. Our exhaust exits in front of driver axle on drivers side. Radiator is remoted to rear of spare tire compartment. By doing this we have separated the noise sources, so that no matter where you stand you only hear part of the totalgenerator noise In front of bus you hear the radiator fan, near OEM AC condenser compartment (generator) you hear generator, near rear you hear generator exhaust.  Jack
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« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2009, 05:55:46 AM »



    Glenn (Tenor) 

  I too have one like yours 1976, I put a Honda muffler on mine and at max RPM (1800) for gasoline wow! what a change in Db.

  Have to return the left ear to hear it running!


    Steve 5B.......
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« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2009, 06:05:41 AM »

I just remembered, my old 1973 gas 2.5kw Onan had 2 mufflers.  The first one was a tractor muffler.  Forget cherry bombs, this thing was a megaphone!  The way the first muffler was placed, it became very easy to put on an Onan muffler on its exhaust tip.  Very quitet.  However, the mechanical noise was defaning and the vibrations were horrible.

I love this old Kohler of mine.  Just need to box it and ventilate it.

Glenn
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busshawg
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« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2009, 06:50:53 AM »

Thanks for the great responces.

 I mounted mine where the A/C condesor was, with the exhaust going down through the floor where the big fan was. Or least that's where it is going to go. I only have it sitting in the compartment right now hooked up. I have yet to insulate the compartment and finish the exhaust. I did however put a new automotive type muffle on it, the same size as what was there. I used a metal box to mount it on. The down side to the gen set is that the radiator is oppisite the breakers and maintence access points. To answer Cody's question I don't see why a person couldn't remote mount the radiator. Looks quite simple to take off, with only hose clamps attaching the hoses. 



Gus , since you have a EV6010 and have only fired mine up a couple of times I have a couple of questions.

 1. does it only run at one RPM no matter of the load? Mine seems to. I have idled mine down but the voltage drops right away without a load. It just seems to be reving high , but maybe that's just the way they are.

 2. if so, what output voltage is recommended , a local dealer told me 124V, but I'd like someones opinion that has one. I'll set my RPM according to this I guess.


Thanks
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« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2009, 08:56:46 AM »

To answer Cody's question I don't see why a person couldn't remote mount the radiator. Looks quite simple to take off, with only hose clamps attaching the hoses. 

1. does it only run at one RPM no matter of the load? Mine seems to. I have idled mine down but the voltage drops right away without a load. It just seems to be reving high , but maybe that's just the way they are.

 2. if so, what output voltage is recommended , a local dealer told me 124V, but I'd like someones opinion that has one. I'll set my RPM according to this I guess.
Thanks

We remoted our radiator. We installed it in the back of what was the spare tire compartment with an electic fan(similar to those used on small cars). This also eliminates a large heat source the the generator area.

Yes, generators must run at a steady RPM (usually 1800 or 3600) to produce a stable power supply. A heavier load should cause the throttle to open enough to maintain RPM, not increase it.

I set my generator RPM using a frequency meter. I set it at 61 or 62 cycles.  If setting RPM by voltage, I think 124-128 volts should be about right. Maybe NCBob will chime in with the correct answer. 
« Last Edit: February 24, 2009, 09:00:11 AM by JackConrad » Logged

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« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2009, 09:52:08 AM »

Thanks Jack , you guys are such a big help to me!
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« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2009, 10:51:48 AM »

Grant,

Jack answered most of your questions but please make sure to follow closely the side, rear and top clearances specified in the installation manual. This is critical for cooling.

I don't recommend remoting the radiator because the cooling air flow for the genset is well engineered and I'm afraid that would mess it up. The radiator fan pulls the cooling air from the front over the gen for its cooling so that air flow is critical.

Jack doesn't say if he has an EV6010 so his remote might not be the same as yours.

I installed clips on the top and rear panels of my gen box for easy removal and access and also hinged the front panel.

The genset runs at 3600 rpm constantly regardless of load. However, it is a Honda and is smooth as silk, so the high rpm doesn't bother me. My Onan ran at 1800 rpm and it shook the whole bus!!

I think the manual recommends running the exhaust underneath and then  horizontally to the front or side or mounted to either side. If you run it straight down it will blow a lot of dust and probably bounce heat back to the genset. All the heated air from the genset already runs straight down so the exhaust would just make things worse.

I also made a skid of square steel tubing so the complete genset can slide out in two channel iron guides. By moving it out slightly and removing the top the access is pretty easy. I also made "service loops' for the electrical cables and fuel line so they don't need to be unhooked to slide the genset out for access.

One other point, make sure the fuel line service loop doesn't rise above the fuel supply line. Don't ask me how I know this!!

I have some photos of my setup if you are interested.
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busshawg
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« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2009, 11:07:00 AM »

absolutly Gus, pics are always good!
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« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2009, 12:11:41 PM »

I have an Powertech Ultimate Series diesel generator.  It comes in an enclosure and it has a squirrel cage blower.

It certainly isn't practically silent like some of the generators in high end Prevosts, but it isn't obnoxious either.  It is quiet enough to sleep directly over the generator when A/C is needed at night.  (Yes, I have exhaust stack and CO detector.)  If I stand 10 feet from my generator and some moron is running a loud generator 200 feet away I can't even hear my generator.
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« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2009, 12:33:01 PM »

Jack doesn't say if he has an EV6010 so his remote might not be the same as yours.

I don't recommend remoting the radiator because the cooling air flow for the genset is well engineered and I'm afraid that would mess it up. The radiator fan pulls the cooling air from the front over the gen for its cooling so that air flow is critical.

Our generator is a 10 KW PowerTech Diesel.  When we remoted the radiator, we removed the fan blade on the front of the4 engine. We installed 3  240 CFM (bilge blower) fans to remove the hot air from the generator compartment. The fans were placed at the opposite end of the generator compartment from the air intake to insure adequate air flow through the compartment. The air enters the compartment near the floor (after passing through a baffled air duct. The air flows past the generator head, then the engine, ans is pulled out by the fans near the top of the compartment on the opposite end (hot air rises).  We have a RV Safety System monitor that gives a constant readout of ambient temperature in the generator compartment.  Temperature is usually about 10 degrees above outside air temperature.  Jack
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« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2009, 01:24:05 PM »

Jack,

The EV6010 has very specific instructions about the dimensions of the box for it and the air intake in front for cooling and engine air. Even the distances from the genset sides and top from the box walls are given close limits as are the openings in the box bottom for hot air outlet. Part of the exiting air flows over the exhaust manifold and exhaust pipe at the bottom. All heat goes out the bottom through specifically sized and located holes.

It comes with two separate blowers which divide up the cooling chores and provide combustion air intake, this is the reason I don't recommend remoting the radiator.

It would be nice if it came in a box but it doesn't. Making that box and skid took most of the installation time and effort.

It is kind of a pain to install, however, the price is so reasonable and it is so smooth and quiet that it was worth all the work.
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« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2009, 01:34:41 PM »

That is very encouaging to hear Gus, thanks. I will be building a box and continue with the installation. Plus I'm sure it will save me some $$ not haveing to buy and sell
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« Reply #25 on: February 27, 2009, 04:03:19 PM »

Refer to cody's last post above Smiley

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