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Author Topic: What type of grease??  (Read 2992 times)
johns4104s
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« on: February 26, 2009, 10:02:12 AM »

The bus is on the slab above the pit. Now the work begins. First does anyone have a grease that they prefer to use?

Thanks

John
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junkman42
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« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2009, 10:04:49 AM »

I use chevron ultra and it has served Me well on the boat ,farm tractors and trucks and the bus.  This grease is reccomended by most of the u joint man's for their joints.  It is red and very tacky.  John
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Brian Diehl
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« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2009, 10:10:39 AM »

I second the Chevron Red.  I use it for all fittings on my bus except the DD3 brake chambers.  There I use lithium greese.  This comes straight from C&J Bus repair's main man, JD.
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johns4104s
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« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2009, 11:30:11 AM »

Thank You

I certinally glad I am asking these questions.

John

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Dreamscape
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« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2009, 11:59:56 AM »

Hi John, What those guys said!

~Paul~
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« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2009, 04:54:06 PM »

On the side of a tube of grease there is a label that spells out the grease's performance.  One key issue for me has always been "water resistance".  The only acceptable rating is "excellent".  I get the boat wheel bearing grease.  I would say to never use "SOAP" based grease no matter what they put in it.  There is an aluminum base waterproof grease that I used for years.....till I found some that had separated in the tube.  I didn't stick around for the explanation.  Correct me if I am wrong....please.

John
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« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2009, 05:53:29 PM »

My opinion is that grease is grease when meeting the same specs. Color has nothing to do with anything except dye, that is an old trick of the oil industry.

What you have to pay close attention to is that some components call for extreme pressure grease instead of plain old chassis grease. This also applies to some rear ends and steering boxes. Read your manual real close on this one.

I don't think soap greases have been available for many years but I could be wrong about this. Years ago almost all greases were soap base which was actually animal fat.
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Don4107
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« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2009, 06:09:50 PM »

One of the things many people miss is wiping the zerk off before you snap the grease gun chuck on.  If you don't, the dirt and grit that was on the zerk gets forced in along with the grease. 

Don 4107
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« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2009, 09:17:29 PM »

Also wipe it off when you are finished! Grin

~Paul~
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« Reply #9 on: February 27, 2009, 12:03:10 AM »

Gus,

Been a while since I scanned the shelf at the local parts store for grease.  I buy mine from the Shell distributor by the case.  It has a really really long shelf life and I save a ton on a professional product that meets all sorts of perf specs.  I doubt Lithium soap base is gone but I will check.  One thing I'll bet isn't gone is that "water resistance" spec that reads "POOR".  But , you should be sure in your heart that I thank you for your comments. Smiley

Do you also share my concern that grease be waterproof?  I tore apart a lot of auto stuff that had grease in it and rust, also.  I nearly crapped when I learned that that grease I had been using for years was actually a pretty good hand cleaner. Cry Angry  That was a long time ago, though.  I have seen so much that I am now hardened and have better control over my bowels. Huh Grin

John

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The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
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« Reply #10 on: February 27, 2009, 06:04:43 AM »

Gus, the color in the chevron line is not there to make You think it is special.  The various chevron greases are indentified by their color.  All greases are not the same and reading the bus lube schedule for My mc7 would seem to bear that out.  I would submit to You that if You think just any old grease will do on a airlplane You might find controls that lockup when the temperature drops at altitude.  Just My opinion, certainly not worth enough to buy a cup of java.  john
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DSweet
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« Reply #11 on: February 27, 2009, 04:09:02 PM »

We use DELO 100 off road grease, seems to work well.
Blessings,
David
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luvrbus
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« Reply #12 on: February 27, 2009, 04:25:32 PM »

John, after reading the manual I have on a MCI it states as follows 

Molybdenum Disuldide for the slack adjusters and brake shaft (that is a water proof grease) 

Moly on the tags

Lithium  on all other fittings   
good luck
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gus
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« Reply #13 on: February 27, 2009, 05:15:31 PM »

John,

I think soap and lithium are two different bases but not sure of that either. My hope was that some expert would chime in and save me the trouble of looking it up!

Junkman,

My little Champ won't fly high enough for me to worry about controls freezing!! I use plain old chassis auto grease, nothing special about a small airplane - steel is steel. Anyway, grease isn't used anywhere except on the stick rod and the landing gear. Most all control bearings use very light oil.

I don't think I said all greases are the same, I think I said all greases with the same specs are the same. What I mean is that I don't think brand has much to do with it since so many different labels are attached to the same stuff coming down the production line. This applies to a lot more things than just grease.

I also meant that color has nothing to do with the quality of grease, not that color doesn't mean anything. It is not unusual for me not to write clearly!!
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junkman42
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« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2009, 07:40:26 PM »

Gus, if I could write clearly I would have been a lawyer.  Well maybe a politician, well you get the point.  I never had a champ but did take flying lessons in one in 1960's.  Owned all kind of airport rejects, whatever I could buy fix and sell for a profit.  Of all of the machines I suppose the cessna 190 was My favorite or maybe a luscombe 8A, really i just loved to fly.  No more flying and there are too many rules now anyways.  The days of IFR are gone i guess, what a shame.  I wonder how much longer I will be allowed to drive My bus?  Is that next?  Hope We can meet and share some war storys and a cup of coffie someday.  Regards John.       P.S. IFR, I follow roads  because I can not afford charts!
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« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2009, 08:18:40 PM »

Boat trailer wheel bearing grease by Stalube will never do you wrong. It stays longer than any other grease and you will never pump water out of any fitting that you put boat trailer wheel bearing grease into.

Its not good to change greases I'm told, so pick one and stick with it.
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Gary LaBombard
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« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2009, 05:11:26 AM »

Here is some examples of lack of lubrication, (1973 05 Eagle)!






Gary
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« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2009, 08:02:53 AM »

Hello Gary,
 I need to replace the king pins on my mci5a soon. So, I have a few questions.
Did you heat the axle to drive the king pins out? Also, I guess the bushings will need to be honed to fit the king pin.  Gary, or anyone else that has an answer,
will mci be the best or cheapest place to buy parts?

  I'm looking forward to playing some music, how about you?

Thanks,
Glen
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Gary LaBombard
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« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2009, 10:22:46 AM »

Glen,
I had to manufacture a press to press out horizontally the old frozen in pins and man what a job it was.  The heat did not help which I tried on one side and hitting with sledge, it was too dangerous.  But the press I made worked but was dangerous also working all alone.  I will include photos here to give you idea what I did.  I also had to rebore out the parts and put in new bushings and have yet to reassemble all so I can't tell you any more than that.  The parts I purchased were from Jefferson for Eagle buses of coarse and not cheap.  Research from others with your bus model that had this done as I cannot give you honest information what to do in your particular case.


















Truly not a job to do alone if you don't have to, very dangerous to do if not trained as well.  Recommend if possible to afford done by others more professional, consider it and save your body parts.  I hope this helps in some deciding.

Oh, Ready for music also, I had the most fun ever of all at Palmetto with you last year.

Gary


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« Reply #19 on: February 28, 2009, 01:23:52 PM »

John,

You can fly most anything less than 1230 lbs gross weight without a medical. All you need is your old license (which never expires) and your driver's license. There are a few other rules, but not many. VFR day only, two place and fixed gear are a few of them but that is fine with me. This is called a Light Sport License and the airplanes are called LSA. The 8A is in this category and is still a bargain. Check it out on the internet.

I lucked out when I sold the Navion in '05 just before the fuel crunch hit. Avgas is now $6-12/gal!! I use auto fuel in the Champ which is probably better than the old avgas 80 it was built for.

So, I just putt putt around the country enjoying myself and burning about 3.5gph of auto fuel. Can't beat that. I live in a rural area so I don't have to worry about controlled air space. Living near a large city is a real pain.

I always wanted a 195 and a Stinson Reliant among others. This is my second Champ after a Stinson 108-3 and the Navion and the most fun of all. For about 20 years we used the Stinson and Navion for traveling which we now do in the bus. Flying was fun and fast but weather was a pain. Very few weather problems with the bus and having your own house with you is really great.
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« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2009, 02:52:55 PM »

Gus and Junkman,

Nice save!   Smiley

John
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"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
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« Reply #21 on: February 28, 2009, 02:56:41 PM »

Gary,

In a pre purchase inspection would you expect that the inspector would remove that bottom inspection plate and look over the king pins?

What is the number of hours I would expect to be charged for that job?

Thanks,

John
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"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
—Pla
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« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2009, 02:58:40 PM »

Gary, In your photos it looks as though the King Pin is still installed. am I looking at the thing incorrectly???

Chris
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« Reply #23 on: February 28, 2009, 03:01:35 PM »

How does a Horizontal king pin work ?  I am not familiar

Help me out here to understand

Chris
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« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2009, 03:09:14 PM »

Gary's photo is of the upper and lower A frame pins and bushings on a Eagle the king pins are vertical like others  good luck
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Gary LaBombard
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« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2009, 03:42:22 PM »

Chris,
In my "Eagle" Maint. parts book it lists the two pins for the control arm to be upper & lower King pins which in my wheel assembly are mounted horizontally.  One upper one is about 1" diameter and the lower one is about 1 1/4"Diameter.  There is a dust cover over each end of both pins which is easily removeable with a screw driver.  Would I recommend inspecting this?  I sure wish I had and anyone easily can now if their steering feels a little loose going down the road.  You cannot jack up the wheel off the ground and shake the wheel for play like a car, the parts are way, way to heavy and interconnected to show the slop even as bad as mine was.  But you remove the upper control arm assembly and you lose the solid connections of all the parts assembled and can shake the hell out of it easily.  Removal of the actual inspection plate on the bottom & top of the actual king pin is a sure way to see what is going on with your vertical king pins on both sides of the bus and look for any lack of lubrication.  

Removing the dust covers on a Eagle front end is surely recommended to see if there is any wear before disassembly like I showed in my photos on the Eagle upper control arm with assembled horizontal king pins, you will easily see the two horizontal control arm pins worn to one side of the bushings on both ends of the pins.  You will also see there is or is not any grease and mine was sticky dirt!!

Again I recommend not o judge your or any Eagle the same as I have had to mine, your bus may not have had the abuse mine did, all the things I point out are FYI only to consider especially a newbie wanting to inspect one.  I just don't want it perceived that all Eagles are rustbuckets like some try to interpet what I say as being just that.  I am getting very antsy at wanting to drive my bus after all this time and prove no matter how abused our buses may have been, they can be put back into many more years of pleasure with lots of TLC if needed and you are able.







John, I cannot give you a guess to the number of hours to do this job, I was and still am a total amateur at all this, I learned the hard way and sometimes take up to 1-2 days just staring at something like this for hours on end before tackling it to be sure I can't get hurt, or try to prevent anyhow.  When you come to this heavy duty disassembly and reassembly it is wise to try to get a estimate price from a professional if you feel it is needed.  Removing the two pins on each side of the bus that I did took all of my 20 ton capacity of my jack to remove the rusted pin assembly.  Man when it broke loose, so did the excitement nearly in my pants when you are under that wheel well not knowing what to expect.  Get a price, get a price for safety.

Hope this all helps.

Gary



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« Reply #26 on: February 28, 2009, 03:45:45 PM »

John,
If you need any other information please feel free to email me directly with what ever I can help with.
Gary
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« Reply #27 on: February 28, 2009, 04:08:55 PM »

Gary your right about Eagle calling the upper and lower king pins and bushing I never knew why they did that.There is a trick to remove those I will show you if I ever get to meet you.   good luck
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johns4104s
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« Reply #28 on: February 28, 2009, 04:13:42 PM »

I had a hard time removing the king pins from my 4104. I had to bounce them out with a sledge hammer.

John
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Gary LaBombard
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« Reply #29 on: February 28, 2009, 04:43:34 PM »

Thanks Cliff,
but man I never ever want to do this job again.  Maybe you could submit your method on Eagleinternational it surely must be easier and safer than that I posted here on MAK.  How I wish I had any information on something like this when I removed my upper and lower control arm king pins.
Gary
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