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Author Topic: Electric Cooktop In Coach???  (Read 5673 times)
viento1
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« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2009, 01:55:41 PM »

I found that the all electric Marathon that I used last  year was more than just a pain. That thing is a power hog and requires power all the time or the windows system shuts down. Seriously, the thing runs on windows Ha ha ha

I could not take out the 50amp stuff in my coach fast enough. I sold it used for what it cost me to replace with new 30 amp stuff. Everything is significantly more costly with 50amp. then try and find a plug in... your genset is your new master.

I have a cute princess 2 burner 110 electric that I am selling.

Oh ya... cooking outside is a rain or shine event with my family, I will make my little slaves cook in the snow - the least they could do to earn some university money!

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« Reply #16 on: March 04, 2009, 02:09:37 PM »

>>I have a cute princess 2 burner 110 electric that I am selling.<<

There ya go, it's up for grabs.
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« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2009, 03:07:51 PM »

   Using a 240 volt cooktop means you HAVE to have 50 amp service (not available everywhere, especially in the small older campgrounds that we like to use). Using a 120 volt cooktop means you can get by on a 30 amp service (much more available, and if you find a 50 amp, you just have extra power available. 
   Although our coach is wired for 50 amp, we have nothing that requires 240 volt.  We have an adapter for pluggin into 30 amp, which is used mouch more than the 50 amp connector.  Jack
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« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2009, 03:59:07 PM »


I have a cute princess 2 burner 110 electric that I am selling.

 


Hey I'm interested in that Princess. Pm sent.
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« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2009, 04:56:15 PM »

You do most of your cooking outside because you don't like the cooking odors, Do you do most ob your bathrooming outside for the same reason? LOL I

At least the bathroom is usually in a seperate room with a vent fan.  Bathroom odors don't tend to cling to porous surfaces either.

I had a travel trailer before the bus and we did cook inside some of the time.  It would stink up the whole trailer if the food had an odor.  Your bedroom, living room, and dining room would smell like whatever was cooking.  At least at home your kitchen and other rooms tend to be seperated.

My bus doesn't have a kitchen yet so no worries about indoor cooking.  We would probably tend to cook outside even with a kitchen as no RV kitchen could realistically cook for nine or more people.  We served around 20 to 25 for dinner two years ago.  We have a full size propane grill, three burner propane stove that is huge, and a large 24"x18" griddle along with other cookware.  We do have a refrigerator in the bus, but we eat sandwiches on the road.

Most of this post has nothing to do with the OP's question.  I would not do a 220 volt anything in a bus.  As others have said, it is hard to find camping spots with 50 amp service and sometimes the 50 amp service is not wired properly as a true 220 volt.  You don't want to run your generator in a campground that has 30 amp (or less!) electric service as a general rule.  I wired my bus as 50 amp, but my generator is wired as 110 volt.  The generator has two hot feeds and I feed one leg into each side of the 50 amp transfer switch.

I feel propane is the way to go for a stove unless you don't like propane or don't have room for the tank.  Electric stoves almost always require a power post or a generator.  You're going to drain your batteries pretty quickly with an electric stove unless you have a massive battery bank.
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Sean
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« Reply #20 on: March 04, 2009, 05:57:53 PM »

... The problem comes from various concepts of campground wiring issues. Some will provide a 50 am service that is actually 2-lines of 120 volts off the same phase of the main breaker panel. This is a simple 2- circuits and the only thing that you will find is that if you check the voltage between the hot legs of the plug you will not see any voltage. But either to neutral you will see 120 volts.


And if you find this, DON'T USE IT.  It's incredibly dangerous -- if you start drawing anything above 55 amps or so total between both hots, you'll return more current on your neutral than the wiring can handle.  At best, this will cause scorching at the connectors; at worst, you'll have a fire that's out of control before you know it.

If you do encounter such a service, and you must use it for whatever reason, then I suggest you purchase or make an adapter that only passes through one of the two hot legs.  Alternatively, you can add a 50-amp three-pole breaker in your coach between the shore cord inlet and the main panel, with both hots and the neutral run through the breaker.  This will ensure that the breaker will trip if the neutral tries to carry more than the rated 50 amps.

On Odyssey, we took a slightly different approach.  A 240-volt contactor (which will close with as little as 208 volts) only passes the second hot leg through to the main panel if the hot-to-hot voltage is within limits.  This is part of our energy management system -- if we are on 30-amp (or less) service, those loads remain disconnected.  But the added benefit is that we can not overload the neutral on such an incorrectly wired 50-amp service.

Quote
The correct way for a 50 amp service is using 2-phases of the main supply. Across the hot legs you get 220 volts, each leg to neutral you get 120 volts.


Actually, to be precise, if you get 120 from each leg to neutral, then you will get either 240 or 208 between the hots.  If you're reading only 220 between hots, then the hot-to-neutral voltage is likely to be 110.

Quote
Not all electricians actually know how to read the codes and wire stuff the correct way. That also said sometimes a campground owner will fudge and place 50 amp plugs where the original wiring was for 30 amp single service. ( they run the same hot leg to both terminals of the 50 amp plug.) This is NOT how it's supposed to be.


And, as I said, also quite dangerous.  This is also a code violation in all 50 states -- I tend to tell the folks to fix them (or be turned in).  They can literally burn someone's rig to the ground with this arrangement, and lives could be at stake.

More than once, I've had to take matters into my own hands and rewire a campground pedestal, just to be safe (or get any power at all).  I've corrected reversed polarity, disconnected grounds, missing neutrals, and incorrectly sized breakers, among other things.

FWIW.

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
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« Reply #21 on: March 04, 2009, 06:25:51 PM »

John, in your search if find a induction 2 burner that will work on 110v would you please let me know that is what the wife wants. good luck


Built-in induction cooktops, whether single- or multiple-burner, are significantly more money than the table-top models.  This is a market dynamic, not a manufacturing cost, of course.

If you must have built-in, you could go with single hobs, and fabricate a filler piece to go between them, to fill in your existing opening.

Summit makes several (pricey) built-in models.  Their single hobs are 120, such as the SINC1-110.  They also have a double-hob top that is nominally 240, the SINC2-220.

Now, far be it from me to suggest to anyone that they modify any appliance in such a way as to violate the appliance's listing.  However, I strongly suspect (though I have not taken one apart to look) that the actual induction hobs in the SIN2-220 are, in fact, 120-volt items identical to the ones in the single-hob units, and are merely wired between each of the respective hots and the neutral.  I'd have to look at a wiring diagram, or take one apart, to be sure.

If this is the case, then you can get away with using this unit by opening it up and double-sizing all internal neutral wiring, as well as double-sizing the neutrals on the circuit supplying it.  You would still supply it with a double-pole breaker, but each pole would be fed from the same leg in your panel.

All that said, you'd be violating the warranty on a ~$600 cooktop.  For my money, I'd just buy two Sunpentown table-top units, then build a nice "well" for them out of stainless to inset into the counter in place of whatever cooktop you remove.  The well will give them a nice finished look, keep the cooking surface even with the countertop, and prevent the units from moving while underway.  Just be sure not to block the units' vents.  Also, there should be drain holes in the well, so that if a pot of something liquid boils over, the well won't fill up with liquid (which would be really bad when it contacted the electrical innards of the hobs).

YMMV.

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
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« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2009, 07:10:05 PM »

I'm thinking BG6 had the best answer here. You were talking about replacing the propane cooktop but nothing was stated about the oven so I'm unsure as to if you are also needing that. I have little use for our propane oven at the time being but someday may. I use my bus much as you do. The 110 griddles do a great job. Most of the time they would be used is for breakfast when normal electrical use for a/c and such is not as necessary. Nobody says you have to cut a hole in the top to install a cooktop for the time being. You can always get one later or you can also get a small propane grill and stash it below for emergencies. If I could or decide to change my bus kitchen their wouldn't be a cutout in the countertop for anything other than the sink. I'd go with the 110 griddle or  a little portable propane grill. Just my take on it. Later
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« Reply #23 on: March 04, 2009, 08:11:48 PM »

Why would you remove a simple, economical, quick heating gas burner top and go through all the complications of replacing it with an inferior electric one??

Gas is so far superior to electric that it is no contest, I have all gas heat and cooking in my home and bus, neither requires electricity.

Gas is instant heat and instant off and requires no electric power.

It is still usable when electric power fails at home or isn't available in the bus.
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« Reply #24 on: March 04, 2009, 08:28:18 PM »

Gus, the electric induction is 90% efficient compared to gas 50% and will bring water to a boil while  gas is warming .      good luck
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« Reply #25 on: March 04, 2009, 08:42:48 PM »

I can appreciate that some folks do not feel comfortable using LP for their cooking. They do not like the thought of an open flame in a confined space. Also, cooking on an LP stove adds appreciable moisture to the interior with fogging windows, etc.

Having just said that, I still PREFER having my LP range, and would not give it up for an all electric set-up. There is definitely something to be said for not having to rely on shore power or the generator.

When our family camps, we are not always tied to a power pole. In the mornings, I am often the first one awake and like to enjoy the quiet.  While my 3 sons and my wife are still asleep, getting my coffee brewing is a high priority.  If I used an electric stove top or electric drip brewer, I would need to start my generator.  My generator is not very loud at all, but in the dead silence of the sleeping bus, cranking it up might still waken folks.  I can light my LP stove and slip the coffe pot on with no one noticing.

Truth be told, I am a strong believer in system redundancy, and I think the ideal system would be:  A stove top with two 110v induction burners, and two LP burners, an LP oven below that, and a microwave convection oven overhead.

I am close to that, since I have 4 LP burners, an LP oven, a microwave (not convection) and a few portable electric appliances (griddle, Mr. Coffee, crock pot.)

Even so, my preference is still outdoor cooking. I take along a propane gas grill, a charcoal grill, a 2 burner white gas stove, and a collection of cast iron dutch ovens.   Did I say I liked redundacy?
« Last Edit: March 04, 2009, 08:53:31 PM by WEC4104 » Logged

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« Reply #26 on: March 04, 2009, 09:18:36 PM »

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#1 is a convection microwave, #2 is a large George Forman Grill with different plates you can change for waffles or grilling ect... #3 is a portable Magnetic induction cook top that I am very happy with. This is all I use for all my cooking (except for a small propane grill) When your done with them toss em in a cabinet or drawer for storage and it gives extra counter space too.

Very close to what would have been my response.
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« Reply #27 on: March 04, 2009, 10:01:14 PM »

Some of the disparaging comments about electric burners vs gas not withstanding, I must jump in here.  I used to feel the same way as I grew up using a gas stove,  and never felt good about the electrics.  Having said that, the induction units that Sean and others talk about are superior to gas.  They heat faster, shut off instantly and creat far less waster heat in the coach.  I do have a well designed battery / inverter / solar / generator electrical system to go with it.  I can cook breakfast without ever plugging in or turning on the generator. I like induction so well, I'm going to spend the big bucks and get  built in on for my house.  The only downside is that you have to have steel or iron pans.

Go check them out, I was an unbeliever until I tried one.  Induction is better than gas.
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« Reply #28 on: March 04, 2009, 10:42:02 PM »

I have an induction style range in my current house (and also the house we lived in before it), and absolutely  think it is the way to go.  But using this type of system in my bus would require some significant changes to my electrical system.  Today, I do not have or need an inverter. My house batteries are limited, as I do not call on them for much.  To upgrade my batteries and purchase an appropriate size inverter, I am estimating I'd need to drop $2.5-3K, so I'm going to stick with LP.
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« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2009, 05:17:59 AM »

I'm not planning on a built in oven... just a two burner cook top. Would the two burner induction units or princess heat units run just off the 30Amp shorepower or would I also need aux. power from inverter or generator to keep from turning off the A/c while using the cooktop???
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