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Author Topic: will the bigger MC12 8v92 radiators fit my mci9 bus without modifications???  (Read 3288 times)
RickB
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81 MCI 9 smooth side 8V71 Allison 754




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« on: March 06, 2009, 01:57:45 PM »

If I'm gonna spend all this money I figure if they'll fit why not use the bigger radiators??

Sammy I'm counting on you...
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Nick Badame Refrig/ACC
1989, MCI 102C3, 8V92T, HT740, 06' conversion FMCA# F-27317-S "Wife- 1969 Italian/German Style"
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« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2009, 02:42:11 PM »

Hi Rick,

Yes, the "8V92" Rads are thicker but, the same size. More rows of copper.

If your going to rebuild rads, I think your money would be better spent on the bigger ones.

Good Luck
Nick-
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RickB
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« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2009, 03:01:41 PM »

OUCH!! $1152 to recore one of my 8v71 radiators and $677 to rod and go through the other one. When did brass surpass gold as a precious metal??? I am just sick about spending 2-3K to update my cooling system. I finally understand why 8V92 TA upgrades are so expensive.

I am having one of those "do I really wanna own this moneypit"? days.  YIKES.

Why couldn't I just have a nice expensive addiction that I can go to treatment for, instead I'm stuck in here with all you bus-a-holics!!! Grin Grin

I can't think of a better group of "holics" than you folks.

Thanks for your help.... now talk me down from the ledge!!!

RB

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blue_goose
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« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2009, 03:06:13 PM »

I have one like new out of a mci102-a3 at half price.
Jack
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Sammy
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« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2009, 03:23:36 PM »

Rick, I don't remember if the larger radiator just bolts right in.
What was problem with existing radiators? - overheating, leaking, etc?
Are you located in hot climate area?
Are you planning to repower to a 92 series in the future?
If no repower is planned or you're not pulling anything with the bus why not keep original stock size radiators? - might save a few $$$$ that way. I'm sure folks with similar vehicle will chime in to help you make an educated decision.
First hot,humid day that you're out with the bus and it's runnning at perfect operating temp will make all of this worthwhile.
Best of luck with your homework.

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busshawg
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« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2009, 03:37:49 PM »

I bolted them into my bus, the biggest problem is the fire wall, they do not fit without denting it in. Most people use a hammer just to dent it in on the outside I believe.   If you place these rads in without denting the firewall in a couple of inches you will notice it just does not want to fall into place for the front mount. It is not like you need to destroy your firewall, just a simple dent on one side. The other thing is he rear doors just barely close, however they do close without any mods. The mounts and the rad hoses hook right up.

Have fun!
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Have Fun!!
Grant
RickB
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« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2009, 03:53:18 PM »

Sammy we do tow a vehicle and if I was to lose my motor I would upgrade to a 8v92 or a 4 stroke. The reason I began working on my cooling system in general was during that hot spell this summer we were in Colorado and we got up early when it was around 60 degrees and tried to clear the first big pass of the rockies and we were over 200 degrees at the top of the first pass. So after bringing the bus over to Brian Diehl's he explained to me how the whole "negative pressure" cooling system works. After that he pointed out that my bus was leaking all over. So I pulled the shrouds and the blower gearbox and I am replacing the shrouds which were leaky and all the seals. While I was in there I noticed a leak in one of my radiators and I wanted to take all precautions and so I pulled both radiators only to find that the one that wasn't leaking is shot and needs to be recored and the other one needs to be rodded and rebuilt. So rather than rebuild the smaller radiators I thought if I could spend a reasonable amount extra to find and rebuild a pair of the bigger ones I would be able to drive pretty much anywhere without having to worry. That is the thought process that led me here. What say you???
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RickB
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« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2009, 03:54:28 PM »

Jack I sent you a PM in regards to the radiator you have..


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« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2009, 04:14:16 PM »

Rick, sounds like you have a fine plan .
Best of luck with your repairs. Smiley
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Hartley
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« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2009, 10:58:27 AM »

The standard thinking is this> If the MC9 radiators are failing or have failed.
Just replace the cores. Do NOT try to have them "repaired" they won't hold up!

A good set of cores ( you change the tanks yourself! ) are generally less than
a grand or so. If you need extra cooling just ask the radiator core people for an
extra row if they don't already provide for that, Most do have more rows anyway.

This thread seems to have been duplicated for some reason....

Check with http://www.generalradiator.com/ and see what they can do for you.

Dave....
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JohnEd
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« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2009, 11:29:41 AM »

The stock rad is adequate for a fresh engine...8V71.  The 2 strokes produce much more heat than a 4 stroke when they are old, worn and tired....I am told.  Using a 8V92 spec rad will take you far beyond the needs of a fresh engine but how many are fresh and for how long?  You are not facing the entire cost of the upgrade as an upgrade.  You need new cores any way so the cost of the upgrade is the delta between the two actions.

I would not mix rads from size or used.  Both heads operate at their own temp and that gauge in the front is only attached to one.  I think we need two gauges up front to this up BROWN.  Also, the auto shutdown over temp uses two sensors and each must be tested and the system verified to cut off fuel.

Regarding conversion to 4 stroke:  Brian converted to an engine that made lots more HP, he added intercoolers in front of his rads on each side and his temps went DOWN.  Evidently, 4 strokes make less heat per HP.....or something.  So don't worry about those 92 rads being big enuf.

Sorry to hear about that cost.  Break down the rads yourself and rod them.  Taking them in for a "dip" shouldn't cost that much. 

Good luck,

John


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« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2009, 01:54:35 PM »

OUCH!! $1152 to recore one of my 8v71 radiators and $677 to rod and go through the other one. When did brass surpass gold as a precious metal???

When they heard you say "I own an MCI, and  . . ." Grin

Actually, consider what they have to do.  It's not a matter of pulling the bolts, pulling the headers, lather, rinse and repeat.  They have to plan on spending several hours dealing with broken bolts, scraping gaskets and then CAREFULLY run a metal strip down each individual tube to floss all the gunk out.  It's also a strong possibility that some of the gunk is sealant, which means if they clean it too well, all of the pinhole leaks will return and they will have to deal with them.  Then they have to put the tanks back on, however much work they have to do to finish solving the broken bolts.

During the time it will take to do that, they would probably be able to do several car radiators.

Those cores from General look like a good deal.  And remember that you can get something for the old cores from a scrap dealer.
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RickB
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« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2009, 03:31:00 PM »

Dave,

How long ago did you buy those cores???

I'm hoping it was fairly recent because that is definitely the way I'm going if they are reasonable

Thanks everyone for the info
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« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2009, 03:41:37 PM »

I got mine in 2005 , You will need to call for a new quote.
copper prices changed a little since then I think.
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« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2009, 02:27:59 PM »

Many years ago, I bought cores from General.  After inspection, I paid to return them because there quality was sub-standard then.  There quality may have improved.

I then bought cores for my 8V71 from Diesel Radiator in Chicago - about $1100.  I used them but  in the Rockies, pulling a car, I still overheated.  I did have good sealing around the radiators.   Ambient temperatures were 85-107 degrees.

I was disgusted.  So, when I installed an 8V71T, I bit the bullet and installed the 102 radiators PN 6K-1-5 from Diesel Radiator (supplier to MCI).  They were about $1900 4 years ago.  Craig Shepard's site is excellent, http://www.gumpydog.com/bus/MC9_WIP/Mechanical/Radiators_And_Blowers/radiators_and_blowers.htm

With the larger radiators, you either need to cut out some sheet metal and make a patch, or get a sledge hammer.

When I changed to the larger radiator, I also went to the larger fan, and opened the output like MCI did in their later coaches.  The fan pulley should be the 7.9" pulley for high air flow.

I did NOT ever want to worry about overheating again.  Pay now, or later.  I errored and paid twice.

Ed Roelle
Flint, MI
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