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Author Topic: Which side of the bus does a cop approach  (Read 2441 times)
pickpaul
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« on: March 09, 2009, 03:16:59 AM »

I was thinking about my recent speeding ticket and wondered whether a cop would approach the drivers window like on a car or the door on the curb side. Is it a mixed bag or is there a standard protocol. I know you are not supposed to get out of your car but what about a bus? Should you just get out the passenger door? I'm rather fond of my 4th amendment and wouldn't want him coming aboard my home on wheels Wink

Cheers, Paul.
 
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kyle4501
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« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2009, 05:11:13 AM »

From my limited experience  Wink

If on the side of the road, they usually use the passanger side.
If in a parking lot, the driver side.
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« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2009, 06:09:06 AM »

Technicly, the instant he turns on his lights you are under arrest. At that point he can approch any way he pleases.>>>Dan
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cody
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« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2009, 06:32:34 AM »

Policy for the Michigan State Police is to assess the situation and to approach from the safest point, that would depend on the officers observation of activity, traffic, and other factors.  If he determined that he could safely approach on the drivers side that would be his preference in most cases, however, he can approach from either side, he may order the occupants out of the vehicle without cause but in order to enter the vehicle he has to have "probable cause". In the case of a bus type private coach he can determine probable cause and enter the vehicle to observe the condition of the interior but he needs either the vehicles occupants permission or a valid search warrant to proceed further into the living quarters of the coach, the determining line is an imaginary line drawn accross the vehicle starting at the back of the drivers seat unless he observes probable criminal action, then he can act to prevent the criminal action or the destruction of the evidence of a criminal act.  In the case of a side entry coach there are different criteria, lol I finally get to answer a question that I actually have knowledge of lol, I wrote this policy in 1988 while reworking the policy and procedure manual.  This applies to MSP, other states may be different and in michigan, other agencies may have different criteria.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2009, 06:34:06 AM by cody » Logged
steve5B
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« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2009, 06:40:03 AM »


    Being a former member of ISP (Indiana State Police)  when we pulled over a bus or RV (very seldom) what I would do, would

    pull behind the violator 15' back 3' to the left.  After running the plate I would pull in front of the unit and approach from the

    drivers side.  Over all, most RVs would be courteous enough to pull off the road to the far right as far as they could to be out

    the stream of traffic.

    
  Steve 5B.......

  
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« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2009, 06:46:52 AM »

The offset to the left helps insure the officers safety, in theory, the car offers a certain amount of protection for the officer.  Most states have laws in place now that require approaching traffic to slow down and move over for any stopped emergency vehicle if they can do so safely, to many accidents have occured over the years where officers or their cars have been clipped by traffic, it's a very dangerous situation from many standpoints, the officer never knows if he's approaching grampa who may be just not paying attention to the speedometer or if he's approaching a drug mule with a ton of cocaine onboard and an mac10. 
« Last Edit: March 09, 2009, 06:48:25 AM by cody » Logged
Airbag
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« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2009, 08:18:50 AM »

I have been boarded by our local law enforcement. I was driving my school bus route and was in a residential area coming around a corner about to off load some high school kids. Some of the kids were standing up in the back and I was on the PA telling them to sit down while making the turn and arming the warning lights when I noticed the Officer parked. He waved me to stop and came right to the service door and boarded. He then started to chew their little butts off. I was having a hard time not laughing. Now I know he could have given me a ticket for the students behavior but still funny just the same. I could tell he just got off the phone with his ex wife's attorney.
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RJ
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« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2009, 09:10:59 AM »

A long time ago. . . in a land far away. . . back in the days of Nixon's ludicrous 55 mph national speed limit. . . this rookie charter driver was riding shotgun and asleep in the front RH seat while my co-driver was pounding the pavement in this old Scenicruiser, on a charter for the US Border Patrol hauling illegals to Calexico from Fresno.

Somewhere on I-10 between San Bernadino and Indio at oh dark thirty, a young (rookie?) CHP pulled us over for doing 70+.  Thought he'd really got himself a big fish.  He approached the front door (to answer the original question), which my co-driver kept closed until the officer knocked.  At that point, my co-driver opened the door.

Now, understand that my co-driver Allan was an ex-college linebacker.  He stood 6'5" and weighed 260 - all solid muscle.  Farm boy from Nebraska, actually.  Had a menacing appearance, but was actually a real teddy bear, funny as hell, too.  CHP was average - 5'11", maybe 160.  Gotta have that mental picture so you'll get a better understanding of the scene.

CHP asked for license & registration.  Allan stood up, and you could see the expression change immediately on the officer's face as he's thinking "Oh, sh*t, this guy's HUGE!"

Allan steps into the vestibule area, and hands the paperwork to me (including the trip manifest), , and I hand it outside to the CHP.  With a notebook in hand, Allan then, very politely, asks the officer for his name and badge number, all the while looking to the rear of the coach.  Officer glances up from the papers he's looking at and says "What?"

Allan again asks him very politely for his name and badge number.  Officer asks him "Why do you want that?"

Allan responds that if the officer will look at the trip manifest, he'll see that we're hauling federal prisoners, and that we'll need his name and badge number to report that he's the one responsible for any of the prisoners who escape while we've been detained along the roadside by him.

Officer stares at Allan, trying to figure out if this is some kind of joke, looks over at me - I nod in agreement w/ Allan.  Officer looks back at paperwork, steps up onto the first step of the coach, observes the (mostly) sleeping passengers, hands Allan back the paperwork and says "OK, but please keep it under 70 and drive safely."  Heads back to his cruiser and we're off & running again.

Never did get his name & badge number, but we didn't lose anyone, either! 

FWIW & HTH. . .

 Wink
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RJ Long
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« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2009, 11:51:54 AM »

Cody,
I have two friends who retired from MSP and I feel strongly about police safety.  I wish someone would start over and re-think how a driver should respond to being pulled over.  I have seen way too many police cruisers create saftey hazards (for themselves and traffic) by being left IN the way of traffic.  I have suggestions - beacause just complaining can't be justified.

Freeway Scenario:
When being pulled over, the driver should be required to either exit at the next off ramp, then proceed to park on the burm, or proceed to the next emergency turn around.  Whichever one comes first.

City Scenario:
When being pulled over, the driver should proceed to the nearest parking space/lot.

OR

The driver is required to FOLLOW the police officer to the nearest SAFE location of the officer's choosing.

I don't mean to hijack the thread.  Just saw an opportunity to ask for help.

Glenn
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Glenn Williams
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cody
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« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2009, 01:03:24 PM »

All good ideas Glenn, but the problem is the difference between suggesting and making it mandatory.  Any time a stop is required, it's going to create a hazzard for both the officer and the driver, each year both officers and the people they have pulled over are injured and even killed by the traffic they have to work around, thats why the law requiring traffic to slow down and move over was created, it's always a dangerous time and studies have shown that often the drivers that don't pull over into a safe area are usually the ones with a questionable past, it almost seems that they are creating a hazardous condition on purpose, the policy comes with a procedure that suggests to the officer that it is often prudent to wait for a safe area to do the stop or to use the PA to request the driver pull off the road further, if done properly the traffic stop can be done safely for all concerned including the approaching cars.  Failure to follow an officers instructions carries simular penalties to the fines imposed by the stop. All stops are filmed now and the films are reviewed on an ongoing basis with thought to how to make them safer for all concerned.  A traffic stop can go from routine to tragic in a heartbeat and over the years we've seen everything including one door that had a shotgun mounted with a remote trigger on the steering wheel, the gun port was foiled over and painted to match the door, that officer in that case was killed by a double blast of buckshot, the driver was then shot by the officers road partner, as much as 30 percent of the traffic stops involve people with violent convictions in their past, it's one of the most dangerous situations an officer can encounter, a search of that car produced almost 400 pounds of high grade uncut heroin, it was that stop that brought on the situation that brought me into the picture to review and modify the policy and procedure manual.
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JohnEd
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« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2009, 02:03:15 PM »

In complete sympathy here.

I watched a film made by a troopers dash camera.  He made a stop and was standing next to the drivers door and had just asked for DL and Registration.  At that moment a car just barely kissed his but at 70 mph.  It must have hurt as the Trooper exclaimed " ARUGHH!  You son ooofff a bitc#" with a grimace and noticeably limped back to his cruiser after telling the driver of the "stop" to stay put.  The camea caught the offender drifting further into the shoulder, where he would have killed the Trooper had he done so a moment sooner, and oscillating back into the right lane and over the markers to the fast lane and then back on to the shoulder.  Classic DRUNK.  No wonder guys on the job have nightmares and are paid one fourth what they earn in sweat.  What ALL could that Perp been charged with?

My 2 cents worth,

John
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cody
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« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2009, 02:09:24 PM »

I've watched several horror films over the years.
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bubbaqgal
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« Reply #12 on: March 09, 2009, 02:19:28 PM »

Quote


Freeway Scenario:
When being pulled over, the driver should be required to either exit at the next off ramp, then proceed to park on the burm, or proceed to the next emergency turn around.  Whichever one comes first.

City Scenario:
When being pulled over, the driver should proceed to the nearest parking space/lot.
Quote



Women have been told for years to turn on the flashers, slow down and go to the nearest well lighted spot.  Recently a woman did that and is now facing jail time for not stopping.  Turns out that in many states it is illegal to keep going no matter what.
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Charles Seaton
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« Reply #13 on: March 09, 2009, 02:28:51 PM »

I haven't been pulled over in quite while but when it does happen I put on my flashers as soon as I see he is interested in ME and then proceed to drive to a safe location to pull over and then as far to right as possible. It was appreciated and I didn't get the ticket.  I don't think he really believed a 45-year-old city bus could do 75 mph.
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cody
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« Reply #14 on: March 09, 2009, 02:30:48 PM »

Kat that is a valid problem, in several states predators were preying on women using the guise of an officer and based on that women were told to protect themselves by doing exactly as you stated, problem is that those instructions weren't given by officers that I'm aware of, if anyone does that, they do run the risk of a failure to stop citation, and i have seen several of them, in each case that I'm aware of, those counts were dismissed based on a good faith effort by the woman to ensure her safety and explain her actions afterwards.  With the onboard cameras that type of a citation seems to be less prevalent, it's easy to determine the "good faith" effort by the car, if when the lights come on the car does as you say it would indicate to most reasonable officers that the car is indeed pulling over but into a safe area, depending on which state that safe area turns out to be lol.  The key here is the word 'reasonable officer', no where is the car given permission to keep going after instructed to pull over, and in my opinion the citation would be easier to take than a beating, rape or possible murder.
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cody
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« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2009, 02:36:05 PM »

One of the most bizzare stops I've been involved in was me being pulled over by a county sheriffs deputy, I was in a state patrol cruiser and the officer was quite convinced I hadn't used my turn signals, (I hadn't lol), while I sat on the side of the road I recieved a call but the deputy refused to allow me to respond to the call, I could have pulled jurisdiction and should have but instead I let the rookie dig a hole, my captain had him for lunch the next day lol.
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bubbaqgal
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« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2009, 03:20:56 PM »

Cody, in SC the Highway Patrol suggested women keep going for safety.  I can't remember if the woman in question was in SC or not  since we move a good bit but she is looking at at least one year in prison for "failure to stop and evading police" even though he acknowledged that she used her flashers and slowed way down.
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