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Author Topic: inverter/charger and battery bank for Ice Cream trucks Maybe OT?  (Read 7698 times)
Nick Badame Refrig/ACC
1989, MCI 102C3, 8V92T, HT740, 06' conversion FMCA# F-27317-S "Wife- 1969 Italian/German Style"
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« on: March 23, 2009, 06:46:36 PM »

Hi Guy's,

I'm starting a unique job at the shop this week. I'm equiping 3 ice cream trucks with 120v power to operate added equipment.

These trucks are now set up with novilty ice cream bars and the like in 8ft dipping cabnits that are only plugged in at night. The 8ft cabnits

hold the product well from 10am to 10pm at night so this is not what im powering. The owner wants me to give him 120 volts to operate

a cotton candy machine, a commercial blender for smoothies, a survalance system, and a cash register. The first truck arrived today and we are

starting tomorrow. In my proposal, I will be installing a xantrex 1800 watt inverter/charger, two 8D batterys, distribution box and 4 outlets,

a battery isolater to feed 12v from the altenator, a new 50a power cord/supply to power the inverter and the 8ft IC dipping cabnit and a

fantastic fan vent in each truck.

I now have everything in stock at the shop for the job except the batterys.

Question, how well will 8D's do for this project? or should I change to sonething else? I have the room to do so if needed.

Thanks
Nick-

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« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2009, 09:07:46 PM »

Is the 1800 watts going to be enough to run everything at the same time? The cash register and surveillance system probably don't draw too much, but the blender and cotton candy machine might.

You also might want to consider the performance of a solar electric storage battery to make sure they don't run out of juice, and can run to a deeper discharge level than "regular" 8D.

http://www.dcbattery.com/rollssurrettesolar.html

Rolls, Surrette, and Deka make some good, but expensive batteries.

- John
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« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2009, 09:27:25 PM »

Calculate the worst case current draw for each of the things he is powering, and then look at the amp hours you have available  from your batteries.  Certainly the deep cycles would be appropriate, as might the sealed AGM batteries.  They can take a faster charge than the normal flooded batteries.  YOur calcualtions will tell you if you need more batteries or not.  AS you know, you should not plan on going below 50% charge or it will shorten the batteries life.
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« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2009, 09:42:43 PM »

How many amps does the alternator put out,will it be enough to charge both battery's ?
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« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2009, 10:31:13 PM »

Since this is a commercial vehicle, I would install a 3000 watt pure sine wave inverter with the equivalent of 1000 amp hours worth of battery.  Then you'll have enough power during the day, and when you plug in at night, the inverter will have the rest of the night to recharge the batteries.  Personally-I'd just use a generator.  Good Luck, TomC
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« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2009, 10:59:16 PM »

Nick,

You have not given us enough information to help.

We need to know for how long the truck is "parked" at each stop to dispense the products, and how far it will be driven between stops if there will be any sort of engine-driven charging.

Also, remember that "8D" is a physical dimension, nothing more.  More important than battery dimension is type of construction, chemistry, electrolyte retention, capacity in amp-hours, and rated number of cycles.  I wrote extensively about this here:
http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=4329.msg39499#msg39499
and more here:
http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=3291.msg29687#msg29687

Lastly, if you intend to use an MSW inverter, remember to multiply all the current-draw ratings for the motors (blender, cotton candy machine) by about 1.3 to ensure adequate capacity.  If either of those  draws close to 15 amps, you'll be over the continuous rating of the 1800-watt inverter.

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
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Nick Badame Refrig/ACC
1989, MCI 102C3, 8V92T, HT740, 06' conversion FMCA# F-27317-S "Wife- 1969 Italian/German Style"
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« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2009, 04:06:39 AM »

Hi Guy's,

My worst case sinero was 12 amps total,equaling 1440 watts. The only load that will run all day is the survalance system.

Freedom HF link
http://www.xantrex.com/web/id/257/p/1/pt/8/product.asp

250 amp hour batt bank will be sufficient with the engine alt being 160 amp. The drivers make on average, 40 stops a day

but most will be their novilty products. The more I hear about the 8D's the less I'm liking them...

Now, 4 golf cart batts wired in S/P might do just fine. Whats your thought?

Sean, the trucks stay docked and plugged in from 10pm to 10am each night.

Tom, if it were my truck, it would have a 3k and 1000 amp hr bank also. This was a bid job and the customer is cheap as hell...Lol

Thanks for the info
Nick-

« Last Edit: March 24, 2009, 04:17:35 AM by Nick Badame Refrig. Co. » Logged

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Nick Badame Refrig/ACC
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« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2009, 05:29:33 AM »

Note,

I just got off the phone with the customer and I asked him why would he want to have the cotton candy machine on the truck

when he could make the product in the mornings at his busisness and bag it up to hang in the truck? I heard silence for a few seconds... Huh

The cotton candy machine draws 4.5 amps and thats not much but, when is the driver going to have time to make it? Plus that

stuff is messy. So, that may or may not happen...

Nick-

PS, anyone want a fudgie wudgie bar?
« Last Edit: March 24, 2009, 05:32:37 AM by Nick Badame Refrig. Co. » Logged

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« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2009, 05:49:05 AM »

Careful Nick, you'll talk him right out of a job!  Grin

Glenn
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Glenn Williams
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« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2009, 05:54:08 AM »

Nick, I am not one of the electrical guys here but you get more bang for the buck with the 4 D size I think there is only about 40AH difference between the 4D and the 8D size and the 4D'S are lighter and smaller.I am going to redo mine and go to the 4D'S
good luck
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« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2009, 06:55:08 AM »

Don't forget the starting surge of the motors and the amount of juice the Inverter uses just being on all day.


Cotton Candy can be made to order and you can carry more sugar on the truck to make it as you need it than guessing and running out on a Cotton Candy Rush Wink


You may want to stick a solenoid between house and truck systems to only charge when engine running and have it close when key is in the on position.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2009, 08:00:22 AM by NewbeeMC9 » Logged

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« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2009, 07:44:22 AM »

I am a little surprised that there is no mention of any lighting in the proposed plans for the vehicle. Even with extended daylight hours in the summer time, I would expect that the interior would benefit from some supplimental lighting.  I guess they could use some of the closet type lights that have their own batteries, but most of the other solutions I could think of would use the house batteries or run off the inverter?  Seems like some LED light fixtures, added to the work Nick is already doing, would be perfect.
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Nick Badame Refrig/ACC
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« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2009, 07:59:52 AM »

I am a little surprised that there is no mention of any lighting in the proposed plans for the vehicle. Even with extended daylight hours in the summer time, I would expect that the interior would benefit from some supplimental lighting.  I guess they could use some of the closet type lights that have their own batteries, but most of the other solutions I could think of would use the house batteries or run off the inverter?  Seems like some LED light fixtures, added to the work Nick is already doing, would be perfect.

Hi Wayne,
I didn't mention it but, there are 4 floresent fixtures there allready that run off the engine batts. I will be tieing into them for the fantastic vent.

Thanks
Nick-
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« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2009, 08:05:21 AM »

Home brew ice cream truck by home brew owner.

Whatever you do, don't leave it so he has to return sheepish to get upgrades or repairs.

Build to his spec, make a few recommendations that he might want to think about as the "load" on his growing business increases.... leave the guy a face saving escape.

He doesn't want to spend more now, and you want him to come back when he is able.

Personally, I'm with Tom, it needs a generator running full time. A small Honda or Yamaha, with religious oil changes, will be quiet and long lasting. Some chip trucks around here have them slung out back on the bumper.

happy coaching!
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« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2009, 08:40:22 AM »

Looking at the design criteria that Nick has been given to work with, the one thing that jumps off the page is the fact that the truck is going to make 40 stops per day. So, unlike a concession stand at a carnival that sits there all day, the engine and alternator are going to be running frequently.

If the truck was to be parked for extended periods, I wouldn't like the idea of running the roof fan and lighting off of the engine battery. But with frequent running of the engine, it shouldn't be a problem. 

Might not be a bad idea to have a discussion with the truck owner about maximum parking time, and the ratio of driving vs. parked time.
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