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Author Topic: Bio Diesel or Straight cooking oil.  (Read 3615 times)
johns4104s
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« on: March 27, 2009, 09:15:43 PM »

I met a guy today who runs his 06 of bio Diesel, he also said it can be modified he thought to be run on cooking oil provided you keep the cooking oil at a steady elevated temperature, start the engine with Diesel , Stop the engine with Diesel and run cooling oil in between.

Any one done this?

John
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JohnEd
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« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2009, 10:21:26 PM »

Many and more than a few on here.

Bio D is D so lets get over that.  Its major problem is that the Bio D will gel at the same temp as the veg stock from which it was made. Can't run it 100% in the winter but 10 or 20% seems to be the winter blend. In Europe ALL D must contain a certain percentage of Bio D.  Its the LAW and the percent is going up.  Canola oil I think but their variety is called Rape seed and it is poison.

Straight Veg Oil, SVO, is being done  all over the planet and our farmers have been running their gear off of it for a long time.  Off the farm the hot ticket is Waste Veg Oil or fryer oil.  Both of these have their issues but those issues are not stopping people.

Google this topic and do a search on here for Bio D, WVO, SVO.  Get back to us in 20 years or so. Smiley

John
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Chopper Scott
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« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2009, 06:33:19 PM »

Biodiesel isn't an issue. It's a blend basically much as ethanol in a gas burner. French fry oil is another issue however. It takes quite a filter system along with pumps etc to even get it into your tank as a usable fuel. At one time you could basically pull up to a McDonalds and they would be happy to have you pump out their old oil containers. Then with all the bus trash showing up and sucking them dry they found out it was worth something and now they padlock the oil dumpster and haul it to the landfill!!! Cheesy
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« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2009, 08:35:52 PM »

...  Canola oil I think but their variety is called Rape seed and it is poison.


Just FYI, "Canola" and "Rapeseed" are two different words for exactly the same substance.

It's called "canola" in the U.S. because companies that sell it figure that you can't sell anything that starts with the letters "rape" here without someone coming unglued.

BTW, the notion that it (the cooking version) is toxic is an urban legend.  Some think propagated by the folks who make and sell corn oil, it's chief competitor.  See here:
http://www.snopes.com/medical/toxins/canola.asp
(among many other places).  Of course, vegetable oil, whether from rapeseed or any other plant, that is processed for motor fuel rather than food use is a different story -- the objectives are different and so whether toxic impurities or byproducts are processed out is also different.

-Sean
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« Last Edit: March 28, 2009, 11:40:58 PM by Sean » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: March 29, 2009, 08:52:59 AM »

The fun part is when people pass you in the Interstate and have this funny look
on their faces trying to figure out what is making them hungry....

Fries & Funnel cakes @ 70 mph.. A mystery....
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« Reply #5 on: March 29, 2009, 10:11:19 AM »

Just FYI, "Canola" and "Rapeseed" are two different words for exactly the same substance.

Sorry but that's not true.  Canola is a subset of rapeseed but it is a different plant.  "Canola" was the name chosen to identify the healthier plant oil that resulted from double low (low glucosinalates and low erucic acid) varieties of rapeseed.  More accurately, canola refers to specific varieties of the species brassica which also includes plants as diverse as mustard & broccoli. 

A lot of the early development on canola was done by Dr. Keith Downey in Saskatoon working on the campus of my alma mater.  Rapeseed was introduced to western Canada by Fred Solvoniuk, a Polish immigrant to Shellbrook, SK which just happens to be where I grew up.  Recently canola has been at the centre of the genetic engineering debate because it lends itself to easy genetic manipulation and has been extensively modified by that technology.
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« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2009, 10:23:57 AM »

The fun part is when people pass you in the Interstate and have this funny look
on their faces trying to figure out what is making them hungry....

Fries & Funnel cakes @ 70 mph.. A mystery....

So, what you're saying is that you don't go flying past them, you go FRYING past them . . ?
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Sean
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« Reply #7 on: March 29, 2009, 10:55:21 AM »

Just FYI, "Canola" and "Rapeseed" are two different words for exactly the same substance.


Sorry but that's not true.  Canola is a subset of rapeseed but it is a different plant. 


OK, Bob, you caught me.  I should have been more precise.  You will note that much of what you wrote about the difference is in the Snopes article that I linked.

What I was trying to convey, really, was that, in motor fuel, it's irrelevant whether vegetable oil has toxic impurities -- you're not going to eat it.  You don't want to eat petroleum, either.  And, at the same time, I was hoping to dispel the ever-recirculating myth that "Canola" oil (which is still a cultivar of rape, given a less controversial name for marketing purposes) is toxic.

Sheesh, I should know better than to take shortcuts on this stuff with an Ag expert on the boards...  Grin

Quote
... Recently canola has been at the centre of the genetic engineering debate because it lends itself to easy genetic manipulation and has been extensively modified by that technology.


Yes, for a while I was following with some interest the whole Monsanto "Roundup Ready" brouhaha up there.  I used to think we here in the U.S. had a monopoly on litigiousness, but clearly not so.

-Sean
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« Reply #8 on: March 29, 2009, 11:05:38 AM »

Bob,

Thank you for that.  In bio D lit they refer to "Rape seed oil" as toxic.  You referred to Canola as "healthier" and maybe that somehow translated to "toxic".  That seems a big jump but I don't know either way.  From your post it would seem that they are NOT the same thing and that is clarification worth making.  Thank you.  I remember the "mustard and broccoli and brassica" angles.

You never know who is reading this stuff and who is the qualified expert.  You proved that trueism once again.

Thanks,

John
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The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
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« Reply #9 on: March 29, 2009, 11:32:14 AM »

john,

my band runs off stright veggie oil SVO 140 days out of the year. we have a conversion kit you can purchase off golden fuel systems (google them). its a great way to save money and if done right can run just like normal diesel.  we have done lad of research on all the options we felt SVO (straight veggie oil) was the best solution to our problem.

for us we are all over the country and don't have time to take vegie oil and modify it to bio diesel.  SVO is simply filters through a 2 or 5 micron filter then its ready to use. you can't just use any oil will explain this later. 

we have on board filtration and a separate tank, we have a bay on our bus detected for this. the only down falls are many people think its really easy to get when your on the go of even at home.  Waist veggie companies have cracked down a ton on there accounts. All of these restaurants have contracts and these companies are paying for the waste oil now. it takes us a good 1/2 of a day to fill our 200 gallon tank. Finding it is 70% of our time. the reason for this is like i said you cant just use mcdonalds oil or BK oil most of the time its not in good enough condition to even run in you engine. its will chew out your filters in seconds.
there is a lot of rejection as well. but at 4.00 a gallon fir diesel in the summer its about 500.00 dollars every time we fill up. so im willing to take the 1/2 of a day and get messy and rejected. 

we do have system that heater the veggie oil. Our engine coolant is rerouted underneath our tank and gets it quite hot. we have to stop and start our bus on diesel and have a switch upfront to do so.

the other thing is there is no way to stay clean then getting the veggie.

so, depending on how much you drive it could be worth it if you are driving 15,000 mile like us. Or if you are going short distances and can store veggie at your house.

with all that being said there is nothing like striking good liquid gold. its definitely worth looking into and seeing if its right for you.

here is a short video of a tour blog my guitarist did.



that shows us pumping and what you will find when your pulling up to veggie tanks.

any help i can be you are more then welcome to call or message me. here to help!

peach
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« Last Edit: March 29, 2009, 11:39:24 AM by iminaccess » Logged

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« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2009, 11:38:31 AM »

OK, Bob, you caught me.  I should have been more precise.  You will note that much of what you wrote about the difference is in the Snopes article that I linked.
..................
Sheesh, I should know better than to take shortcuts on this stuff with an Ag expert on the boards...  Grin

Sorry but I didn't bother with any of the links cuz I live(d) this stuff.  And the profession is "Agrology" - the correct term is Agrologist.  If you Engineers want precision on resistance then don't expect anything less when it comes to crop science.    Roll Eyes

FTR if there are any real issues with healthiness of the two oils then the concern should be with rapeseed oil.  The rapeseed profile has been modified for industrial purposes.  Canola was specifically bred to lower the erucic acid and glucosinalate content.  Glucosinalates tend to make the meal unpalatable as animal feed.  Lower erucic acid makes the oil more "heart healthy".  So rapeseed oil has a less food friendly profile because it hasn't been bred to be food friendly.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2009, 03:25:08 PM by bobofthenorth » Logged

R.J.(Bob) Evans
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« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2009, 07:26:57 PM »

DANG!     You guys should talk more often.  This is like watching a tennis match.

Great info, Bob.

Peach,

I will visit your site.  I gotta share with you though, lots and lots of people say "you can't do that, your engine will fail after one tank full."  Glad to hear all is well with you. 

Thank you,

john
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The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
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« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2009, 06:26:51 AM »

Peach,

Thanks for the info, I had heard about you you guys doing this and you live close to Luke. I will most definetly be in touch.

John
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« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2009, 02:34:24 PM »

just wondering if anyone has done this with an RTS?
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« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2009, 06:39:10 PM »

I am running a 6-71 on vegetable oil. I have not seen an RTS. I have seen 1 other 6-71, 2 8V-71s, and many medium duty trucks and pickups, and cars. it works great. Last year at Bussin' USA in Rickreal, Oregon there were three buses running on WVO.
Jerry
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