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Author Topic: H2 Bus  (Read 3380 times)
NewbeeMC9
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« on: April 01, 2009, 09:07:47 PM »


Saw this today,     


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NewbeeMC9
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« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2009, 09:08:54 PM »



Can you find the Motor?
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NewbeeMC9
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« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2009, 09:13:38 PM »



It is Kinda behind the dudes noggin in the picture Cheesy





It is about 450 ft-lbs torque

it is about 12 " or so diameter and about  8" deep there too



400 amp at 400V  i believe it said on the tag
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« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2009, 11:12:00 AM »

I like this kind of bus, wish they would add more info
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NewbeeMC9
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« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2009, 12:32:30 PM »


http://www.hydrogenhybridbus.com/

ergo
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« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2009, 12:44:15 PM »

thanks
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1976 4905
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« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2009, 12:48:44 PM »

I really like the windshield, but it probably costs more than my bus to replace it.  I am personally waiting until they can fit a nuke plant in a box the size of a large tool box.  Then I can hook it to a monster electric motor and silently cruise the highways.

Frank
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« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2009, 01:03:43 PM »

h2 is a pipe dream law of conservation of energy will prevent this from ever being more than a battery and a very weak one at that....however there is a very small nuclear power plant that one day could be small enough to power a bus... I can't remember which japanese firm makes them but they are currently powering hospitals with them they are about 20'  and 3' wide. If you scaled down the power needs maybe this could be a replacement for diesel motors in big rigs.. however I think nat gas is the way to go since there are 400million trillion square feet of it on our ocean floor waiting to be used.  use it before it's exposed to the atmosphere , yes this would convert it to carbon but methane is 24 times more potent than co2 so to use this is a better alternative than oil , and we could save these other resources for lubrication, medicene, fertilizer, plastics(nat gas, only some plastics are actual petroeum) and the myriad of other uses such as cars(use only 20% of all petroleum in this country) diesel fuel(personal vehicles). I for one think that the government needs to stay out of these things and let the free market decide, also nancy pelosi needs to stop subverting the democratic process and let things come to vote, 2/3 's of us citizens feel drilling the ocs is good for our economy. Not allowing this to come to vote, is not democratic. Nor is a presidential decree saying that we can't even try for what  the potus say's is not there, let the drillers try it's their money to loose. one person making these decisions , even if he his the potus(not  duly elected or elegible) , is not democratic. EVen though we live in a Republic, to not allow the peoples voice to be heard is not a Democratic ideal. So Follow what your party is supposed to believe in and quit trying to brain wash the populace with bad science. THere is such a thing as clean coal.( by clean it's cleaner.)
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« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2009, 01:36:36 PM »

Drilling in the ocean for a oil does not make sense.  What little supply that is there wont last.
I will not mention the risk of pollution to our ocean.
Hydrogen still has a chance at working.

http://www.it.umn.edu/news/inventing/2004_Summer/harvestinghydrogen.html


http://www1.umn.edu/umnnews/Feature_Stories/Fuel_in_a_flash.html#
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« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2009, 02:44:46 PM »

Thru a group of engineers that Jim Shepard is affiliated with, Jim and I got to ride in this bus last fall. The bus is amazing. It uses all kind of new technology. It has a regenerator when it is going down hill to make electricity and all so stops the bus. The driver very seldom has to use the brakes. It has a computer that will memorize the route so the generator only comes on to get to the next hill so it can store power on the way down. It will come to the shop with empty batteries so they can be charged with cheap overnight power. If i remember correctly it uses a 320 volt battery that can be charged in about 6 minutes if it is used on a route that an over head line will come in contact with the bus and charge will people are loading and unloading. I don't remember the type of battery but it stays cool will charging at that rate. I think Jim is out of town but maybe he will chime in and can rember the kind of battery.

Wayne
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« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2009, 02:56:05 PM »

I, for one, think the oil and gas companies should be allowed to drill or pump from whatever location they so desire.  NO HOLDS BARRED.  I also think that they must also pay for whatever damage they do and the Gummint should insure, on my behalf, that they maintain the realistic ability to do so. Bonds?  It seems that Big Oil has befouled and destroyed an awful lot of our nation and any serious effort at cleanup has been paid for by you and me.  Exxon Val is not the exception as that part of the world is still screwed up and EXXON only points to the billions they spent and offers that as proof positive of their good conscience.  They still run single hull tankers up there and our waters were the only ones in the world that allowed the singles to operate.  If it isn't still the case, it certainly used to be, and I think that proves that left to their own devices and with no responsibility, MIGHT makes right.  And, just when in the worlds history has it been any different?

I recall watching Congressional hearings on drilling on the ANWR and Santa Barbra.  The Big Oil exec was being asked questions.  Nancy Pelosi or Teddy Kennedy, or, one of their ilk, asked pointedly if the drilling would kill any wildlife or destroy any land.  BOE stated with great conviction that it "would not" and he had the studies, made at great expense to BO, that would substantiate that fact.  He was then asked if BO would "GUARANTEE" that out come and "insure" that no violation of that agreement would go without complete restoration? He blustered and stammered and coughed for half a minute under the glare of the lights and finally blurted out "Why, Why, That's complete outrageous.  That's crazy!"  Nuff said!  They have burned every bridge they have crossed and now want the benefit of the doubt.  I, for one, will not support giving them any more of my tax dollars to charge us for oil that they take out of federal land.  They, BO, will give foreign countries a percentage of everything they produce but in this country that practice is labeled "socialism".  And so labeled with labels provided by BO.

Hugo does it different and that thrice elected Bully and Tyrant only federalized 40%, I once read, of the Vz oil fields.  No wonder he is demonized for that reason alone.  And I am not saying he is a good guy, I'm not.  Only that the evidence I have been provided so far seems horribly biased, if not fictitious.

So, yes, I am in favor of drilling.  And thank the stars their are people, elected by the majority, who look out for my best interest.  Yes, thank the stars.  How long has it been since we had that big financial implosion caused by unregulated banks and AIG running amok limited only by their good conscions and without any GUMMINT interference.  I can easily understand why people would be in high gear lamenting the interference of the Fed in the business of entrepreneurial capitalism.  It has been so long since then that you can't really fault a guy for it having slipped his mind.  Nor for it's lessons not having sunk in.  Ever visit Oil City, Pennsylvania?  I haven't been there since 46.  How is it?

Oh well.  I don't want to get on a soap box here. Tongue  I should never take a "Circus" seriously. Roll Eyes Grin   It is only for fun and shouldn't be taken so. Grin  Forgive me. Kiss

John the Conservative Traditionalist

In all good humor,

John
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NewbeeMC9
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« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2009, 03:42:00 PM »

Sorry,  didn't mean to stir political rant over here.   Just thought the technology was cool and posted it since it was a bus.

He did say they may have an option to to use Natural gas to produce the H2 on board.  This bus will be running in the river district of Columbia SC.  The bus was at an H2 Conference and they had other H2 stuff as well.  cars, power pack(250 gen).  They claim 50-60% of the energy in the fuel make it to the rear wheels. opposed to the 15-18% in an IC vehicle.


It has been a long time, but IIRC from chemistry class  the way to tell if a something was a good fuel was the amount of Hydrogen atoms on the molecule.   Like Natural Gas is CH4 I believe and diesel is like C12H23.  So we ALREADY have Hydrogen Buses  Grin Cheesy  



Now whether or not it is the answer to all our problems, I doubt it, but what would be?,  and any improvements or waste are just opinions to argue about until it has at been tried.  

My opinion is to try it and see what happens,
maybe the scale of use can work out the problems
Maybe it'll make diesel cheaper to run in our buses Wink who knows
and Trying stuff opens the doors to other oppurtunities.
i.e. I wouldn't have found this forum full of awesome people if I wouldn't have been thinking of a bus. Smiley  And i probably wouln't have a bus with out this forum


Anyhoo, I thought the technology was pretty cool,   Smiley

« Last Edit: April 02, 2009, 03:53:28 PM by NewbeeMC9 » Logged

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« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2009, 05:58:06 PM »

John Ed, you couldn't have stated my views better. Thanks. Now Rush Limbaugh would appreciate that post. I think that it would help his prep for tomorrow  Grin Cheesy Cheesy Grin.

Good job on the post.

God bless,

John
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« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2009, 06:14:06 PM »

Drilling in the ocean for a oil does not make sense.  What little supply that is there wont last.
I will not mention the risk of pollution to our ocean.
Hydrogen still has a chance at working.

http://http://www.it.umn.edu/news/inventing/2004_Summer/harvestinghydrogen.html


http://http://www1.umn.edu/umnnews/Feature_Stories/Fuel_in_a_flash.html#
drilling might not last long , this is or is not the point, thing is there are tremendous unfound reserves waiting in  the ocr. even if you believe that there are not, that's fine, your entitled to your opinion. The real issue is that that in a demcracy nancy pelosi being but one person should not have the right to tell 2/3's of the population that their official representatives have no right to say whether or not we should allow private entity's the ability' to take the financial risk to discover what could or could not be a medium term to long term solution.  Nat gas (methane 400 million trillion cubic feet of known supplies on the surface of the ocean floor , not to mention undersea gas vents and whatever might lie below the 3 mile thick layer of ocean sediment which is mostly methane sulfates) is probably going to be a dual saviour. anwar and ocr is said to be more than 3 time the saudis total known reserves sohow this will not help is beyond me. by the way you even big oil companies are vested in saying there is shortages of oil just like debeers markets diamonds I for one don't believe it for one moment. We have been on the verge of only having 20 years more oil for over 80 years. total horse apples . basically we are not in danger of ever running out of energy in thousands of years if you add all the total of different sources available and easily tapped. some of these other sources can be tapped with the add of the others. man why dont' people think past the prechewed information the media and gov promotes in their own selfish interests'
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« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2009, 06:15:15 PM »

I think I saw this bus on a flatbed going across Nebraska last week.

Didn't get a real good look at it, but it was a cool looking unit.


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« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2009, 07:01:33 PM »

Craig, The body of the bus was made by a boat builder back east somewhere. It is one piece composite of some sort. The young engineers that are building the bus are having the time of their lives. That would be a fun project to undertake. The company that is doing it are being funded by some government grants. They put the bus up on a hoist and let us check it out, was a fun afternoon.

Wayne
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« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2009, 07:55:02 PM »

Another interesting thing about the bus for you engine swap guys. The electric motor and the hydrogen generator can be taken out in less than 30 minutes.It is held in with 4 bolts and sets in its own frame and is removed with the help of a forklift
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« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2009, 08:37:50 PM »

Hydrogen is a renewable resource, and can be made just about ANYWHERE that you can get water and electricity.  If you are near a nuclear power plant, you have a one-stop-shop for fuel -- the plant purifies water for cooling, generates electricity, electrolysis takes the H2 out of the pure water after it's been used, the electricity compresses the gas.

The soot from burning H2 is water vapor.

I wouldn't want a composite bus, though.  They are not crashworthy, and as they break up, they create lots of sharp edges.

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« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2009, 08:53:23 PM »

completely erroneous , hydrogen cost's way more in energy that you ever get out of it in return. see the law of conservation of energy. this bus is really a nat gas bus that transforms and looses all kinds of energy in the processes. even if it drew electricity to run a h2 generator the line losses to get the power there from a nuke facility are tremendous. just running straight nat gas into a combustion engine is way more productive.
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« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2009, 10:12:16 PM »

Circus,

I think you are right about that energy conservation thing.  i don't know and you are sounding a little like a BS in Engineering of one flavor or another.  Can't debate any of those technical/scientific points.  That being said, I think you might have missed the point.  That bus is about pollution created by combusting hydrocarbons.....not MPG.  Hydro, Geo and Nuc are all carbon free so H made with that energy won't hurt the planet.  The entire country of France consumes absolutely no OIL to generate Lectricity.  They do it all with Nuc Fision.  Whats more, they have a lot of soft coal over there but their decision was driven by global warming and atmosphere polution.  Way back then these guys had our back!  No joke!  It can be done!

About that energy in ANWR.  The amt of oil that ANWR would possibly produce, according to BO, is 6 months worth of USA consumption....total.  Here again, I didn't measure it.  What I do know is that 6 more months of pollution at our current rate is something to be avoided.  But, if we are bent on choking ourselves and every other living soul on the planet to death, then I suggest we head right into "Clean Coal" and get it over quick(er).

I am already on record as being in favor of exploiting every scrap of energy this planet has to offer.  All of it!  Truly I am.  Oil, gas coal, Geo therm, hydro, wind, solar, tidal, fusion, fission or whatever comes up.  Just a couple simple points before you start:  You must clean up you own mess.  You can't poison or otherwise kill every man woman and CHILD on the planet doing so.  Maybe under penalty of death would do it.  Now the Pope cleaned up the Priesthood way back in the day with three simple oaths and maybe we could try that with all the attorneys.... Those were: 1) chastity 2) obedience and last but not least....3) POVERTY.  That ought to do it.  Will Rogers had a poignant observation:  He pointed out that there was a "new fangled device that science had come up with.  They call it the polygraph and it actually tells you if a person is lying after you strap the guy into this harness and connect these wires".  He went on to observe that when those business execs testify before congress the only thing those birds are strapped into is a silk shirt.  HUMMMMM!  Will R. had a lot of things right.

I think the crux of the problem is that one faction is saying "you have to stop poisoning the planet till you can prove sustainability of the ecosystem."  Current evidence and science is in-arguably proving that we are heading towards a tipping point.  The other side is saying "you can't tell me what to do or not do.  I don't care how many of us die, I will never admit that I had anything to do with it".  And that is a problem.

About Pelosi:  Civics 101.  Representative form of government.  It isn't enuf to just squall "it isn't FAIR"...You need a majority and you have to follow the rules of descent.  Laws and that stuff.  You just can't simply start shooting people with whom you disagree.  Pelosi was elected by her constituents to represent them and they were a majority.  The majority in the congress elected her to represent their will in many regards of the governance of the Congress.  She is elected "twice" by a majority.  She is REALLY elected....get over that!  Disagree with her positions and argue your own but don't lament our system of government or argue its change by any form that isn't acceptable by the standard of the constitution.  I feel strongly about this, as you may have detected, but absolutely none of what I have said is "political".  Trust me on this point....i can DO political and this ain't it.

Be well,

John the free market conservative

John316,

Thank you!

John

heard a great quote this afternoon:  There are no STUPID questions, but there sure are a hel# of a lot of inquisitive idiots running around loose".  Wadaya think?
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« Reply #20 on: April 03, 2009, 02:21:39 AM »

Let's not have yet another discussion on hydrogen-powered vehicles here - it's been done to death before and only succeeds in exposing both sides of the argument as having too much opinion based on too little knowledge. As far as nuclear-powered buses are concerned, it's been done before - just watch this movie:



On the subject of composite-built structures:- crash worthiness is an interesting point - whilst it's true that composites won't crumple like steel that doesn't necessarily mean you don't want to be in a composite structure in an accident, whether it be a Formula 1 car or a bulletproof vest. Having said that there is a scene in 'Fatal Attraction' where a Lotus Esprint goes off a bridge and lands on it's nose. The impact would have shortened a steel car by several feet, but the Lotus barely seems to sustain any damage - with the consequence that far more energy must be transferred to the occupants

Jeremy
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« Reply #21 on: April 03, 2009, 05:22:42 AM »


I recall that nuke bus movie from the 70's,  I liked the self changing tires.

The H2 Bus there only used H2 and plug in at night.


Also on feeble memory of what was being said outside,  the hydrogen fuel station they set up is purchasing H2 from a Welding Gas house who was part of the group,   Air Liquide I believe, and it is already their business.  Now I believe they said Air Liquide bought the H2 from somewhere else that was a by-product of a manufacturing process.  Again, hearsay without actual knowledge. Wink

It will be running a route in Columbia to take real world data so then we can see how it goes.
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« Reply #22 on: April 03, 2009, 06:29:39 AM »

bo= body odor and yes something stinks, we have a liar in office. he's lied about his birthplace and many other things..(not telling the truth is the same as lieing.) anwar is way more that 6 months of oil. saying that anwar is only 6 months is akin to saying alieska is only 2 weeks . caribou actually thrived more after they built the pipeline , at the time it was say-ed to going to kill wildlife. see what utter lies there are. and one person even if doubly elected.... (totalbs) should not have the power to keep things from coming to vote that she knows will pass.  that is not democratic in thought process, neither is using bad science to push political agenda.
the energy required to make h2 usually is 25 time more than it creates, and hydrocarbons being burnt directly in an internal combustion engine create far less impact , if it can be proved that they indeed do as much harm as noted. (only 20% of petroleum is used by vehicles.) If anything undersea gas vents, proximity to the sun, solar flares, decomposing plant matter, volcanoes, ant hills,  and flatulence are far worse concerns than anything than puny man kind can create. Look at the other planets that are experiencing climate change and have no human activity, nor any signs of life. there are currently 80,000  active volcanoes and who know how many undersea gas vents.
Ocean temperatures have been skewed since noaa tossed in many numerous amounts of subsurface temperature sensors, this has also gone towards biasing temperature readings as Benjamin Franklin was the only one before this to keep somewhat accurate readings while he was discovering the gulf stream. so you see this is not exactly accurate science. science being the exact study of anything.
If bo was really trying to solve things , (if there is a problem, we have suffered 3 worst winters in quite a while, look outside) , he would fund the exploration of the ocean floor for Nat gas deposits of which there are 400 million trillion cu ft of it. clean coal tech should be explored and given to the Chinese in exchange for excusing our debt, ( the real culprits ) (we are the Saudi Arabia of coal.), exploring as much as possible for petroleum in our own lands, we have many deposits that are off limits because of arbitrary reasons put forth by a government that does not follow their own doctrine,(let the people decide , it's called Democracy). 
Mother nature is far more powerfull than we give credit for on many matters but we sure do understand her destructive power when it comes to hurricanes, and earthquakes. Why is it that certain people think that we can overpower her in other areas? totally pompus to think that man could out do nature in most anything, (overpowering the magneto sphere aside, earths magnetic power is relatively weak. but speaking of which why can't we harness the power of the earth's other powers like deep deep Geo,  techtonic creep, earth quakes. wind kills birds hydrogen really does not work, read the piece in motor trend.) Don't be biased towards one field of thinking , our planet is way too complex to think that a simple cause and effect relationship is going to effect so much change.
Let al gore give up his profit motive and see how much ranting and raving he does. If he was really genuinely caring he would not have set up various corporations to make money off first world nations that per person pollute less than anyone. 3rd world nations boiling water with wood and using primitive techniques for just about everything pollute way more per person and in total period because many of the products we make here also travel around the world to save other places from having to wreak havoc to create the things they need in life.
Bottled water is actually a good thing since plastics are made from Nat gas it traps this thing that is 24 times worse than co2 in the ground for 500 year till it begins to degrade. so you see the hypocrisy in the global warming crowd. they never tell the whole truth, which is a lie, so that they can shed some of the shame they feel for being part of the winning team.
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« Reply #23 on: April 03, 2009, 06:44:39 AM »

I looked at their website. They have one on there that's not painted all green. There's a map that shows it being moved from Denver to Columbia. I'm certain that's the bus I saw on the flatbed going East through Nebraska (although the map shows it going through Kansas).

Would love to see it up close and personal.

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« Reply #24 on: April 03, 2009, 08:00:53 AM »

I looked at their website. They have one on there that's not painted all green. There's a map that shows it being moved from Denver to Columbia. I'm certain that's the bus I saw on the flatbed going East through Nebraska (although the map shows it going through Kansas).

Would love to see it up close and personal.



Was very quiet, and only had a a slight ozone like odor behind it.  Can see the benefit of that in a crowded urban area.  Both doors had good handicap access with built in ramps at the doors. I got to ride a H2 powered Segway too Smiley.  Rode in a H2 powered Chevy Silverado 4x4, it had IC engine.    Mercedes, Kia, Honda, and dodge were there also.   The Kia was said to have a 400+ mile range on a tank.

In a few months you will be able to ride it around columbia Smiley


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« Reply #25 on: April 03, 2009, 10:53:37 AM »

Circus Boy,

We are done here!  Consider yourself to have had the last word.


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« Reply #26 on: April 03, 2009, 11:45:17 AM »

John,

You are wasting too much energy over nothing.  Conservation is the key.
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« Reply #27 on: April 03, 2009, 04:06:48 PM »

no conservation and drilling is the key.  Cry
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« Reply #28 on: April 03, 2009, 04:16:14 PM »

I just saw one today in Arroyo Grande, California (in San Luis Obispo county). The one I saw looked like a Gillig with a VW van on the roof. On the "vw van" it said Electric H2
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« Reply #29 on: April 03, 2009, 04:50:51 PM »

One could prop this bus up or beat this bus up. All I know is that they did one hell of a job making a very nice bus. All the Best, M&C
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http://singinglandcruiser.blogspot.com/
Master Mason, Noble Shriner
Where "R" We ; Leeds, Utah
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