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Author Topic: MC5a radiator removal  (Read 2875 times)
Lin
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« on: April 13, 2009, 06:59:34 PM »

As you may note from my other post, this was cooling system day.  I made a concerted effort to find why I am using coolant.  I tested/tightened every clamp I could find.  One may have been damp, but was not convincing.  Finally, I think I have located the bulk of the problem.  The left radiator has a leak!  I was looking at how to remove it and it seems it slides right out the back panel.  However, I did not locate any bolts holding it in place.  What have I missed?  Also, how heavy should I expect it to be?
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mcilee
1964 MCI Straight 5
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« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2009, 08:17:06 PM »

Hi, The radiators come out very easy. Below the deck that they set on are two bolts. 5/8 wrench as I remember. Simply loosen off the hoses and remove any shrouds that may still be on the beast and the radiators will slide right out the doors. It probably wouldn't take more than an hour or two.
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We bought this MCI 5 in 1994, have enjoyed over 100,000 miles in the last 15 years. Lookin' forward to many more miles and smiles with a great machine.
rgrauto
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« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2009, 09:16:10 PM »

Hello Lin.  I just finished repairing a rad. leak on my 5a ,and asMcilee said it is not too hard to do. There is 2-  9/16  bolts in rubber mounts under the center of rad.,look on right side(easy to see)  you will need to lift the radiator up to clear the mounts. Try not to tear up the rubber seals if you have any left,mine did not and I had to make new ones. If you need new rubber ,let me know and Ill will get you the Ace Hardware # for the stuff I used. Glen
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Airbag
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« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2009, 06:20:01 AM »

It's nice to see some MC5 activity. I'm sure my rads will be coming out in the not too distant future. One of my projects on the list is to get the louvers working for the radiators. May I ask are yours operational? Mine will require removal for a complete overhaul including new nylon bushings and God knows if that wigetstat temp control still works. My louvers just remain open, here in AZ it's OK but a trip too the cold country might prove otherwise.
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Tenor
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« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2009, 07:23:52 AM »

Airbag -
Do a search on the louvers before you put a bunch of effort into working on them.  MANY people just dump them off for recycling.  I'll not give an opinion, but let you read and develop your own. 

Glenn
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Glenn Williams
Lansing, MI
www.threemenandatenor.com
1968 MCI 7 Ser. No. 7476 Unit No. 10056
8v71
4 speed Spicer
Airbag
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« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2009, 07:52:01 AM »

Airbag -
Do a search on the louvers before you put a bunch of effort into working on them.  MANY people just dump them off for recycling.  I'll not give an opinion, but let you read and develop your own. 

Glenn

My search only came up with our recents posts.
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Lin
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« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2009, 08:42:40 AM »

I was also wondering about the louvers.  However, I was wondering whether to remove them as an obstruction or leave them there as a guide to air flow.
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Airbag
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« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2009, 09:01:52 AM »

I was also wondering about the louvers.  However, I was wondering whether to remove them as an obstruction or leave them there as a guide to air flow.

Hello Lin
As an obstruction they have never been a factor for me. I can't imagine MCI putting such a huge amount of time research and money into something that was not needed. My thought on the subject is if I remove them then my bus is worth just that much less. FWIW
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Fredward
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« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2009, 07:55:33 PM »

Lin,
I had a major leak in my curb side radiator so its at the shop being rebuilt right now. It was leaking around the bottom tank where the tubes come in. And there was a leak at the top of the core as well. It takes about 15 minutes to get the radiator out as you have already read above. The shop I'm using charges $85.00/hr. They figure they'll have 10 - 15 hours into it. Mine doesn't have fins and keeping it up to temp is not much of a problem on the highway. Only time it runs cool is at idle/high idle.

Fred
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Fred Thomson
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« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2009, 08:12:27 PM »

Lin,
I had a major leak in my curb side radiator so its at the shop being rebuilt right now. It was leaking around the bottom tank where the tubes come in. And there was a leak at the top of the core as well. It takes about 15 minutes to get the radiator out as you have already read above. The shop I'm using charges $85.00/hr. They figure they'll have 10 - 15 hours into it. Mine doesn't have fins and keeping it up to temp is not much of a problem on the highway. Only time it runs cool is at idle/high idle.

Fred

I think cold weather warm ups is where they are needed / you know those bloody zero degree temps you get in the midwest.
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Tenor
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« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2009, 08:13:18 PM »

Airbag -
I found 2 pages of posts under radiator shutters.  Should have thought of that first!  good luck!

Glenn
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Glenn Williams
Lansing, MI
www.threemenandatenor.com
1968 MCI 7 Ser. No. 7476 Unit No. 10056
8v71
4 speed Spicer
Lin
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« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2009, 09:04:53 PM »

Fred,

If repairing the radiator is in the range of $1000., how much was a recore?
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Airbag
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« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2009, 10:24:00 PM »

Airbag -
I found 2 pages of posts under radiator shutters.  Should have thought of that first!  good luck!

Glenn

Just about everyone says make them work. So just as I thought they are needed. Thanks Glenn
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Lin
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« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2009, 07:36:26 PM »

Actually, I have decided to go the other way.  I do not think I will ever need them, and with so many other things to do, I would never get around to allocating the time or money to fix them.  So, since I removed the left radiator, it seemed like the perfect time to remove the shutters.  I am far less concerned with keeping the engine warm than I am with keeping it cool in our desert.  This brings me to another question-- there is an opening of about 8"x4" to the engine compartment below with a scoop that points directly into the shutters.  As there any reason not to seal this off too?
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Tenor
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« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2009, 07:44:44 PM »

That is part of your air intake for your engine. I highly recommend that you leave it open.  However, this is a good opportunity to check it for debris.  I had a TON of debris in mine.  It had been parked without the grill over the radiator.  Good Luck!

Glenn
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Glenn Williams
Lansing, MI
www.threemenandatenor.com
1968 MCI 7 Ser. No. 7476 Unit No. 10056
8v71
4 speed Spicer
rgrauto
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« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2009, 07:49:25 PM »

Hello Lin, If you are looking at the scoop on the left rad. side I think it pulls air up through the voltage regulator to keep it cool. Lin look and make sure that is correct. HTH, Glen
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Airbag
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« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2009, 08:21:44 PM »

Actually, I have decided to go the other way.  I do not think I will ever need them, and with so many other things to do, I would never get around to allocating the time or money to fix them.  So, since I removed the left radiator, it seemed like the perfect time to remove the shutters.  I am far less concerned with keeping the engine warm than I am with keeping it cool in our desert.  This brings me to another question-- there is an opening of about 8"x4" to the engine compartment below with a scoop that points directly into the shutters.  As there any reason not to seal this off too?

Lin
The MC-5 is a grand bus and has proven itself with years and years of service. That said you really need to look at the pages of this forum on the radiator shutters and I believe you will rethink your decision to remove them even in the desert which is where I am located by the way. Your engine needs to get to operating temp ASAP in order to reduce stress on it's parts and produce the advertised power. Even in the desert we get cold days and rainy days that will require these shutters. Again read the posts on this subject they make sense. Some tell tales of breaking crankshafts while demanding power from a engine that is not at operating temp. Look at the quality of these shutters and the engineering that went into them, they are important.

If you decide you don't want to keep them I would love to purchase your system.
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Lin
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« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2009, 11:09:09 PM »

Glen,

Yes, the opening is the one behind the voltage regulator compartment.  Mine no longer is in there.  It seems that it draws air from the engine compartment and may modulate the temps of the sheet metal voltage regulator case.  My thought was that it is drawing heated air from the engine compartment, but it is probably not that significant.

Airbag,

I generally like to hold onto parts that I might want to rethink.  The shutters seem to be okay except for rattling a bit.  The actuator on the left set, which are the only ones I have really examined since that is the side I am working on, has a lot of rust.  I would suspect that it would need replacement.  My guess is the shutterstat would also have to be changed.  Have you priced those parts yet.  I do not believe that the shutters on this bus have worked for eons.  I have not yet noticed a problem in getting up to operating temperature, but I have not traveled in the frozen north.  At this time, I have no plans to do so.  As we are going into summer now, heat is more on my mind.
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« Reply #18 on: April 16, 2009, 07:10:50 PM »

Lin,
It ended up being $1,200.00 to fix and it would have been $1,400.00 to recore. But at the time they estimated it, i figured maybe it would go faster and be less than $1,200.00. Even so, they took both tanks off, cleaned them up, checked and rodded the core, put it all back together, resoldered every joint, bead blasted the side straps and repainted the whole dam thing. Putting only 8 - 10,000miles a year on it I think I'm fine.

Regarding the shutters, I'm no expert, but using these things the way we use them I really don't think you need them. Shutters are nice when the engine struggles to get above 160. Living in Minnesota, I rarely leave it idling and once its working, the temp stays 180 or above. In commercial bus service, the bus could have sat for 8 hours running in the winter trying to maintain temp. We just don't use these things that way. Turn on the Webasto and shut off the Detroit.
Fred
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Fred Thomson
Lin
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« Reply #19 on: April 16, 2009, 10:06:12 PM »

Fred,

I took my radiator to the only shop in town.  He does radiators and mufflers.  He said he could fix all the leaks very reasonably.  He said he could not rod it or take it apart since they are not bolt on tanks and he does not want to mess with it.  Since I did not have a heat problem, just a leak problem, this will be fine.

I have sort of rethought the shutter issue.  I took one set off and, in spite of the rusty actuator, the shutters popped closed when I put some air to it.  It looks like everything is still there, so I will put the shutter back and leave them for the future.  I figure that even if they are not working, the bus is about the best place to store them.  Mostly, I thought the shutters looked darned cool popping open and closed.  They rattle a bit since the guide holes on the top of each louver are loose.  I wondered whether there are supposed to be little bushings in them.  Anyway, the radiator should be back in by Monday, and it's on to the next adventure.
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Airbag
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« Reply #20 on: April 16, 2009, 10:35:48 PM »

Fred,

I took my radiator to the only shop in town.  He does radiators and mufflers.  He said he could fix all the leaks very reasonably.  He said he could not rod it or take it apart since they are not bolt on tanks and he does not want to mess with it.  Since I did not have a heat problem, just a leak problem, this will be fine.

I have sort of rethought the shutter issue.  I took one set off and, in spite of the rusty actuator, the shutters popped closed when I put some air to it.  It looks like everything is still there, so I will put the shutter back and leave them for the future.  I figure that even if they are not working, the bus is about the best place to store them.  Mostly, I thought the shutters looked darned cool popping open and closed.  They rattle a bit since the guide holes on the top of each louver are loose.  I wondered whether there are supposed to be little bushings in them.  Anyway, the radiator should be back in by Monday, and it's on to the next adventure.


There is a procedure in the book on reseating the shutterstat valve by cutting the seat complete with dimensions. Yours may not need it. I have not even tried yet to get mine working but it is high on the list, AC system, Rear window latch and then shutters. I can see the bushings have all but disappeared on my shutters. where in the desert are you? Near Tucson?
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Lin
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« Reply #21 on: April 16, 2009, 11:23:10 PM »

We live in Joshua Tree, CA., right near the National Park.  We are about 40 minutes up the hill from Palm Springs.  Are you near Tucson?
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Ed Hackenbruch
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« Reply #22 on: April 17, 2009, 05:38:48 AM »

PO removed the shutters when he put in tranny coolers a couple of inches in front of the radiators. We leave when we see frost or hopefully even before that, so real cold weather is not an issue for us.....by the time we fire up and pull forward and get the jeep hooked up, the bus is already up to temp.
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1968 MCI 5A with 8V71 and Allison MT644 transmission.  Western USA
Airbag
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« Reply #23 on: April 17, 2009, 07:01:01 AM »

We live in Joshua Tree, CA., right near the National Park.  We are about 40 minutes up the hill from Palm Springs.  Are you near Tucson?

We are in Marana just north of Tucson. I know where Joshua Tree is. Just west of Twenty Nine Palms. I used fly to the Bay Area to see my Dad and that was my favorite fuel stop. You get some weather there, I was over that area one day dodging rain showers at 10,000 ft and thought I'd land there to wait it out but when I radioed Twenty Nine Palms and asked what the winds were he told me 90 gusting to 110. I said I will see you next time thru. It was meanest blackest looking storm I have ever seen over the Marine base.

I like that high desert, it's different from our desert. I am waiting for some pictures of baggage doors that are for sale in the LA area, if it works out where I pick them up I'll buy lunch.
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Lin
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« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2009, 09:06:09 AM »

Ed,
     Do you have transmission coolers on both sides?  How do they affect things in summer?

Airbag,
     Let me know if you are passing nearby.  There is room for your bus here if you need to stop.
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Ed Hackenbruch
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« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2009, 09:17:36 PM »

Yup, coolers on both sides. I thought that the heat from them would affect the cooling of the radiators but it seems to have minimal effect. I think that because i have 2 coolers the heat from the tranny is spread out more. The tranny runs really cool, in fact the gauge for it hardly ever moves. I thought it might be broken at first but then we went up to Vegas from Laughlin when it was 105 degrees out and the tranny temp guage finally moved.  The engine temp guage usually runs right at 180 degrees or a little less until we hit a hill and then it will go up some from there. I keep a close eye on temp and rpms and shift accordingly.
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1968 MCI 5A with 8V71 and Allison MT644 transmission.  Western USA
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