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Author Topic: drop box oil leak  (Read 3337 times)
David Anderson
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« on: April 14, 2009, 09:22:04 AM »

I posted this on the Eagle groups board but have had no response.

I just returned from a 1500 mile trip to Missouri and back and I have an oil leak on the drop box idler shaft cage assembly cover gasket on the front of my drop box.  I noticed about 3 -4 drops of oil on the pavement when I stopped to get fuel.  This is the cover on the side opposite the output shaft.

I looked in the manual and there is a big gear behind that cover. I just need to replace the gasket. If I remove the bolts will only the cover pop off and not disturb the gears? Or will the whole gear assembly press forward and fall out? Anyone with experience doing this let me know the best way to replace this gasket.

Thanks,
David
1985 Houston Metro Eagle 10, 6v92
« Last Edit: April 14, 2009, 11:17:10 AM by David Anderson » Logged
luvrbus
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« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2009, 09:42:17 AM »

David, the gear will not fall out but it is a good idea to take it out and check the bearing on both ends most of the time when that gasket starts leaking there is a bearing problem on the idler gear.
On mine you have to remove the air tank to remove the gear.
You should have posted on www.eaglesinternational.net board someone there would gave you a answer
good luck
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luvrbus
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« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2009, 10:24:26 AM »

David, fwiw if you find out that you are having a bearing problem it is best to remove the drop box and replace the 4 bearings will save you big bucks down the road $100.00 for bearings and a seal now or 2 to 4 grand for drop box later      good luck
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Tom Y
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« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2009, 10:36:22 AM »

David, There may also be shims under there to set up bearing play.   Tom Y
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David Anderson
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« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2009, 11:10:56 AM »

Eeeks, I wasn't expecting that, but it makes sense that it wouldn't leak without some cause.  I don't really have the facility to pull that beast off.   I confess this may be a challenge beyond my capabilities.  Being in the San Antonio area, I wonder if Texas Custom Coach in Pipe Creek or Krause Bus in San Antonio could fix this?   Anyone with any other ideas?

David
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David Anderson
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« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2009, 03:17:14 PM »

I pressure washed everything and drove it 20 miles.  It is leaking near a couple of bolts that attach the idler cover.  I checked torque and several were loose, so I tightened everthing up.  I doubt it will stop, but it is a start.  I called Byron at Krause in San Antonio.  He hasn't returned my call yet. 

David
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« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2009, 03:20:39 PM »

Take your check book!  I have only worked on one and that was with the floor removed so that it couldn't have been any easier.  Still a heavy, nasty job unless it's something you do every day.
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« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2009, 04:53:39 PM »

I pressure washed everything and drove it 20 miles.  It is leaking near a couple of bolts that attach the idler cover.  I checked torque and several were loose, so I tightened everthing up.  I doubt it will stop, but it is a start.  I called Byron at Krause in San Antonio.  He hasn't returned my call yet. 

David

I was going to say that ...but you beat me to it. It common with transmission or transfer case (box) with taper bearing & shim & cover to leaks due to loosen bolts.

That might be all it need.

BTW....See if you already have a magnetic drain plug or so to inspect for above normal amount of powder metal accumulated on end of drain plug or cover.
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« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2009, 06:16:59 PM »

David, I would check and make sure the seal washers are in good shape. 
 99% of the time when bolts start to loosen on the drop box you have a bearing going bad.
I would pull the cover and check before taking it to a shop there are no shims on that cover where the gasket meets the box they are located behind the bearing race in the back of the cover.
 You can change those 2 bearing yourself it is the 2 on the input shaft that are a pain to change without removing the box but it can be done if you can remove the yoke.
That small cover has shims on the outside and uses no gasket.     good luck
« Last Edit: April 14, 2009, 06:19:48 PM by luvrbus » Logged

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BusCrazyinFL
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« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2009, 06:33:49 PM »

David check your drive shaft my drop box use to leave a puddle of oil on the ground and the problem was it would blow the seal. The drive shaft has ten bolts and they were loose the shop here in Lakeland put all new bolts and a new seal and that took care of the problem.
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David Anderson
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« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2009, 07:43:37 PM »

Bummer,

After tightening the two loose bolts, it still leaks.  I finally got in touch with Krause Bus in San Antonio. He sold all his eagle stuff and no longer works on them, school buses only.   I'm trying to work up the nerve to pull the cover off.  In the picture it appears the cover is the housing for the outer race of one of the bearings.  So, I assume when the cover is removed the outer bearing will be completely exposed, right?   When I remove all the nuts from the studs and crack the seal loose and the cover is unbonded from the housing, how hard will it be to slip it off the bearing?   Should moderate prying all around the cover slip it off?  Also, I'm assuming Norris at Jefferson Truck will have the parts needed to put this puppy back together, right?

I've changed the oil in the differential twice since owning the coach (every 18k miles)  I'm due for a change soon.  As for the magnetic plug, previous drainings showed only a bit of metal crud on the magnet, just enough to scrape up with your pinky finger.   Does it matter if the oil is hot when draining it?  Or can I just open the plug and let it drain for a couple of days?  The last two drainings I drove it hard for about 20 miles, parked, pulled the plug, and let her drain for about 2 days.

The picture of the drop box is on the link below.

Thanks, David
« Last Edit: April 15, 2009, 08:58:06 PM by David Anderson » Logged
luvrbus
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« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2009, 08:18:25 PM »

David, the cover comes off fairly easy a little tapping to loosened and pry it off and the gear will not come out with the cover. The bearing is pressed on the idler gear the race is in the cover.
The bearings are off the shelf items any bearing supply will have them the gasket and seal washers are the only thing you need to get from Norris. You installed a front seal on your 6v92 this a piece of cake to check the bearings.
While you are there check for any play in the drive shaft input shaft if you have it then the drop box will need to be removed. It not that hard of a job with a floor jack and 2 people.If you need help I coming to Texas next week and will stop and help you if you need it
good luck
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« Reply #12 on: April 16, 2009, 08:42:44 AM »

David, it is not that hard of a job to r&r the drop box, as we speak mine is hanging from a chain under the bus, while in the process of replacing the diff. gasket I damaged the gasket between the drop box and diff. new gasket is on the way vi Norris.

I put a heavy pry bar across the frame above the drop box and with a chain and come-along lowered it down, also droped diff. and replaced the diff. gasket the same way. By the way my wife operated the come-along.

Good luck, Bob
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« Reply #13 on: April 16, 2009, 12:32:42 PM »

I don't know what the big deal is.
If you take any large piece of metal and paint it Detroit Green it will leak oil! Smiley
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David Anderson
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« Reply #14 on: April 16, 2009, 06:39:06 PM »

Thanks for the input.  I ordered the gasket from Norris today.   He said they won't work on these boxes, only exchange.  $4000 + core.  I also ordered 8 washers and one stud.  He said those are special washers for non leakage and don't replace any studs with bolts.  Mine has one bolt in it, so it has been worked on when Houston Metro owned it.  I'll see what happens.

David
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David Anderson
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« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2009, 08:16:51 PM »

I received the gasket.  Do I need to use some type of gasket sealant on this installation, like Permatex or something?

David
« Last Edit: June 21, 2009, 04:20:22 PM by David Anderson » Logged
JohnEd
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« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2009, 11:56:40 PM »

What is a "drop box"?  Seriously now...what does it do?

Thanks,

John
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« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2009, 03:39:26 AM »

When Silver Eagle made the Model 05, they moved the tag/bogie to the front of the drive axle, which pushed the engine further toward the rear bumper. The main reason for the change was to increase the cargo bay storage area, and changed the location of the fuel tanks. The Drop Box transfers power/motion from the engine to the drive shaft. It's just a big gear box. The Model 01 did not have that, it was like the typical engine, transmission and driveline configuration.

~Paul~

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« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2009, 06:51:05 AM »

David, I would use high-tack sealent. Bob
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« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2009, 08:38:49 AM »


 David,

     I won't get into the debate on the need for gasket sealants........they do have their place.

 If you find you need to rebuild  Order shims before you start. Usually when you put in new bearing
 the shimmage is slightly different and having things apart waiting on a shim is frustrating.

  some tools you would need that are not a common items
     1. a good dial indicator with magnetic base holder and extensions for the dial indicator.
     2. a small french fryer big enough to hold the shaft bearings.   Heat up the shaft bearings(cone) in the fryer then they just slide on
          (don't be slow about it)   Grin

    Takes more brawns than brains as long as you follow the book Smiley

   Good luck

 Skip
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David Anderson
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« Reply #20 on: April 28, 2009, 04:39:11 PM »

I got it back together.  I replaced both bearings.  It was a bear to get them off, but I took it to NAPA and they pressed the new ones on in about 3 minutes.  The gear weighs about 70lbs, but comes out very easy.  The bearings were $38 and $48, and the gasket about 2 bucks.  I filled with 17qts of lube, drove her hard and found no leaks.  Hopefully I did it correctly.

David

P.S.  Here is a picture of me lying on my back looking up at the drop box from under the coach.  That is the air brake line in the foreground
« Last Edit: June 21, 2009, 04:22:23 PM by David Anderson » Logged
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« Reply #21 on: April 28, 2009, 06:32:08 PM »

Now drive it down to the Breaux Bridge Eagle and have some fun with more birds! Grin

Glad you got it fixed, did you ever get in touch with Clifford?

~Paul~
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David Anderson
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« Reply #22 on: April 29, 2009, 07:44:35 PM »

Glad you got it fixed, did you ever get in touch with Clifford?

~Paul~
Sure did.  He told me exactly how to do it.  Ah the voice of experience is reassuring indeed.

David
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« Reply #23 on: April 29, 2009, 09:00:30 PM »

Glad you got it fixed, did you ever get in touch with Clifford?

~Paul~
Sure did.  He told me exactly how to do it.  Ah the voice of experience is reassuring indeed.

David

Yip, he's one of a kind! Glad it all worked out.

~Paul~
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« Reply #24 on: April 30, 2009, 12:54:30 AM »

Paul

I second that comment of one of a kind.

John
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David Anderson
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« Reply #25 on: May 23, 2009, 09:33:35 AM »

I guess I did it right.  We drove 700 miles and are in Grove OK at Grand Lake of the Cherokees.  No leaks and no problems.  Boy the weather is nice up here and the land in southwest MO is sure pretty. 

David
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luvrbus
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« Reply #26 on: May 23, 2009, 09:52:11 AM »

Good job David ,Jerry Jefferson doesn't need to make all the money   good luck
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