Bus Conversions dot Com Bulletin Board
October 22, 2014, 06:51:52 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: If you had an Online Subscription: You will not incur forwarding fees when you are on the road.
   Home   Help Forum Rules Search Calendar Login Register BCM Home Page Contact BCM  
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: trace inverter  (Read 3972 times)
cody
Guest

« on: April 22, 2009, 05:50:37 AM »

I have a chance to pick up a 2500 watt trace inverter at my favorite looting and pillageing spot for 450, it's new surplus with the charger, was wondering about the wattage, I currently (like that pun? was accidental lol)  have a heart 1000 watt inverter and it's wayyyyyy to small but it runs most of what I have, I'm slowly working my way towards having air on the road and am looking for thoughts on the 2500 as far as size goes and who has them and if your happy with it or not, I'd like a bigger one but money is always a concern, I know it's not pure sine wave so don't hit me with that lol.  One of the pluses, I have the monitor panel now with my freedom 10 inverter and this one is supposed to plug right into it so thats a savings.
Logged
JackConrad
Orange Blossom Special II
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4447


73' MC-8 8V71/HT740 Southwest Florida


WWW
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2009, 06:28:55 AM »

Cody,
   We have the 2500 watt HeartInterface inverter in our bus and it has worked flawlessly for 9 years.  Jack
Logged

Growing Older Is Mandatory, Growing Up Is Optional
Arcadia, Florida, When we are home
http://s682.photobucket.com/albums/vv186/OBS-JC/
mikelutestanski
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 381


Mikes Metal Mistress




Ignore
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2009, 07:10:29 AM »

hello:  I have a trace U 2624 which is a 2500 wat inverter set up for 24V operation with a three stage charger. It has worked very well for me for approx 7 years .
   I do have a substantial battery bank however.  12 trojan t105s ;  6v batteries setup in three banks of 4 series parallel combination. The total amperage possible is 675 and half of that is usable or approx 330 amps.  Now at 24V low side supply that translates to a 5 to 1 ratio (minus losses)  5 Amps @ 24V equals 1 amp at 120 volts.
   I also have a wrico 8kw genny so if AC is required I run the genny.
  THe battery system provides kitchen stuff, lighting,tvs and 12V/24v stuff in the coach.
   Hope this helps
   FWIW
   regards and happy bussin   mike
Logged

Mike Lutestanski   Dunnellon Florida
  1972 MCI 7
  L10 Cummins  B400R  4.625R
cody
Guest

« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2009, 07:19:06 AM »

Right now I have a 4 battery bank and hopefully I can double that, I'm thinking 8 batteries would be a big help.  Now that I've beefed up the supports under the iggles bay floor I can do some things that involve weight and feel safe lol.  But one step at a time lol.
Logged
Sean
Geek.
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2553


'85 Neoplan Spaceliner "Odyssey"


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2009, 09:57:18 AM »

I have a chance to pick up a 2500 watt trace inverter. ...  One of the pluses, I have the monitor panel now with my freedom 10 inverter and this one is supposed to plug right into it so thats a savings.


Umm, if you have a Freedom now, which was a Heart Interface product, and you are buying a Trace product, it is unlikely that the same remote panel will work.  Even though both Trace and Heart are now part of Xantrex, no real effort was made to integrate these formerly separate product lines.  The remotes are not compatible.

You also did not say what model you are looking at, so it's hard to provide any opinions about it.  Trace products run from the very top of the line in the industry, the SW series, right on down to cheap junk from Asia that's sold in discount stores.  2500-watt MSW inverters run from around $200 to nearly $1,000 depending on brand, warranty, and features, so even saying whether $450 is a decent price is hard.

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
Logged

Full-timing in a 1985 Neoplan Spaceliner since 2004.
Our blog: http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
cody
Guest

« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2009, 10:38:29 AM »

I called trina to see what model the inverter is and she said it's the Freedom 458, model HI-2022-12, hopefully that'll shed more light on the inverter/charger.
Logged
Sean
Geek.
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2553


'85 Neoplan Spaceliner "Odyssey"


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2009, 10:47:28 AM »

I called trina to see what model the inverter is and she said it's the Freedom 458, model HI-2022-12, hopefully that'll shed more light on the inverter/charger.


OK, that's not a Trace, it's a Heart Interface.

From the part number you gave, it is a 2,000-watt model, not a 2,500-watt model.  This is also a "single input, dual output" model which may be harder to integrate into your existing system than a single-output model.  These units sell new for around $1,000, with a two and a half year warranty.  It's a good inverter, if 2k is enough capacity for you and you can deal with the dual output headaches.

HTH,

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com

« Last Edit: April 22, 2009, 10:49:24 AM by Sean » Logged

Full-timing in a 1985 Neoplan Spaceliner since 2004.
Our blog: http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
poppi
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 208


mci 8 L10 ZF tranmission; helena




Ignore
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2009, 10:54:21 AM »


 Sean,

    So what are the dual output headaches?

  Thanks
 Skip
Logged

Snow disappeared......Now where did I put that bus?
cody
Guest

« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2009, 11:13:48 AM »

Yep, I see now thats a 2000 watt inverter, it probably would do the job ok but I'd rather have a bigger one, I called the usual culprits in elkhart and it seems that most have gone out of business, does anyone have any ideas of what ones may still be in business? I got thru to bontragers, they have a 2000 watt magnum for 475 and the one at rv surplus that I talked about, elkhart surplus salvage came back as out of business as did coopers and factory rv surplus.
Logged
Sean
Geek.
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2553


'85 Neoplan Spaceliner "Odyssey"


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2009, 11:26:51 AM »

So what are the dual output headaches?


This model has, instead of an open output where you supply your own sub-panel and circuit breakers, two built-in output circuit breakers.  The 458 20D model is available with two 15-amp output circuits, two 20-amp output circuits, or one of each.  This particular unit (2022-12) has one of each.  They can not be changed in the field.

So with this unit, you are limited to two output branch circuits, one 15-amp and one 20-amp.  You could, of course, wire a sub-panel off, say, the 20-amp circuit, but you are effectively limited to 20 amps for the whole panel.

Of course, a 2,000-watt inverter is only good for 16.67 amps continuously anyway, but the surge rating of this inverter is 50 amps, and it includes a 30-amp internal transfer switch for passing shore or generator power through to the loads.

My preference, even for such a small inverter, is to supply my own output routing for the entire available output.  That way, I could use up to the full 30 amps rating of the internal transfer switch any way I needed it in the output sub-panel.

YMMV, as they say.

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
Logged

Full-timing in a 1985 Neoplan Spaceliner since 2004.
Our blog: http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
poppi
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 208


mci 8 L10 ZF tranmission; helena




Ignore
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2009, 11:35:57 AM »


http://www.rvsurplussalvage.com still seem to have the cart active Smiley
 

 Sean,
   True but from what I could gather the unit in question was designed so there would
   be no sub panels and of coarse gfi plugs. Not of most mind sets of a DIY 'er but
   usable for those on a itsy bitsy lonely path Smiley

  Skip
Logged

Snow disappeared......Now where did I put that bus?
cody
Guest

« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2009, 11:39:07 AM »

Sounds like it's back to square one for me lol, any recommenations?  I'm not looking to put in a nuclear power plant but I sure would like a good inverter that'll charge the batteries and run my stuff, I was hoping for a 3000 watt or bigger but thought I had found a 2500 with minimal headaches, so the search continues, but the price was somewhat ok lol.  The one I had found was at RV Surplus, but that and bontragers was about all I tryed that didn't have the no longer alive recording on the phone.
Logged
Sean
Geek.
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2553


'85 Neoplan Spaceliner "Odyssey"


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2009, 11:52:27 AM »

Cheap MSWs are ubiquitous.

This guy has a Samlex 3kW for $329, free shipping:
http://www.donrowe.com/inverters/1000_5000_watt.html
(No charger, though.)

Even the Freedom 458's come up frequently on eBay, either used, NOS, or factory refurb.  I have seen them as low as $400.

Don't limit yourself to RV surplus stores.  The Internet is a vast resource -- I found the above link simply by typing "3000 watt inverter" into Google.

-Sean
http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
« Last Edit: April 22, 2009, 11:55:16 AM by Sean » Logged

Full-timing in a 1985 Neoplan Spaceliner since 2004.
Our blog: http://OurOdyssey.BlogSpot.com
Zeroclearance
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 523





Ignore
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2009, 12:08:46 PM »

Cody,  there are other deals out there..   Since Trace is shutting down there Arlington office, there seems to be some pretty good deals "floating around"    I picked up two SW4024's  one for $1,500.00 and the other I paid a little more $1,750.00    I realize that the 4000 watt units are a little "more" money but I think that they are worth every penny.   

A Thanks goes out to Sean for making it happen for one of the Trace sales..
Logged
cody
Guest

« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2009, 12:29:50 PM »

Right now 1500 would be a major push on the budget, I've got a bunch of stuff I'm doing to the bus including some major interior changes lol, (libby projects lol).  I also found a Magnum 2012 inverter/charger for 475 at Bontragers that looks like maybe it is workable, hard to say at this point lol,  The kicker seems to be that so many of them are not set up to be hardwired or don't have chargers or transfer switches built in.  I've got time on my side tho, cause the one i have now is working fine, it's just on the small side at 1000 watts.
Logged
JohnEd
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4571




Ignore
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2009, 06:09:52 PM »

Cody,

Go to Zantrex's site and look down the list of features.  One feature that I thought I NEEDED was the "load sharing".  With that you can run down your bats and start the gen with ac loads active.  In this scenario the ac loads are significant and when added to the bat charger load, at full charge, an overload condition should exist and the geny breaker or the 30 amp pole breaker should trip.  Now imagine it is 40 degrees, 20 mph with gusts to 35 and it is pouring rain....the circuit breaker keeps tripping and you need to get the batteries back up.  With LS your inverter looks at your load on the AC side and only lets the charger load rise to a level you select....say 29 amps.  No more breaker popping!  There are a lot of Zantrex models that will do that SL and the 458 is one model series that does.  The  "Freedom Marine" and freedom does also and there are more.  Most of the Zan models do not but they are one of the few that offer it at all.

The one you are looking for is the Full Sine Wave Zantrex that5 has the "load Splitting", or whatever they call it.  In that scenario you are hooked to the pole at 30 amps and you turn on the third roof AC unit when you get home.  A 30 amp breaker will not handle that load but the FSW will go to the bats for additional power and with phase synchronization it will combine power from the inverter with the pole and give you, say, 42 amps of power total and do it automatically and when the load drops the inverter will take some of the pole power and charge the bats as fast as the avail power will allow.  Whew, what a yarn.

Dick Wright has given up his franchise for Zantrax products and has gone over to Magnum.  They also will do the load sharing and load splitting stuff.  Last I checked the sophisticated FSW model still had not made it into production.  It sure does have a lot of sweet specs and features.  It is also brand new and  there are none available at "used" prices.  Set your sites on a FSW Zantrex 3.0 to 4.0 with full features....like Sean has.  Name dropping here and I hope it was him I'm thinking about.

Good luck Cody,

John
Logged

"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
—Pla
cody
Guest

« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2009, 07:00:06 PM »

Another question that has come up now is whether the oxygen machine requires pure sine wave or not, that I'll try to find out tomorrow. It would be so much easier if i could just stop at a truck stop now and then and just air her up lol.
Logged
JohnEd
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4571




Ignore
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2009, 08:54:04 PM »

Cody,

Tom Cafferty clued me in to some things.  Namely that all MSW aren't created equal.  The Zan 458 and Freedom seem to run stuff that is supposed to take FSW.  If you can, that saves a  lot of money in Inverter costs.  Most of the incompatibility has been with cell phone chargers and tv's and specific typo\es of motors like split phase or capacitive start.  I don't remember it all but some motors fry on MSW and somebody with a better memory will have to advise you on which is which.  I have concluded that the Zantrex has finer steps in their MSW so it must look more like FSW to a lot of stuff.  Still, want to be sure the inverter will be compatible with any load?  FSW!

Anyway, Good luck,

John
Logged

"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
—Pla
JackConrad
Orange Blossom Special II
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4447


73' MC-8 8V71/HT740 Southwest Florida


WWW
« Reply #18 on: April 23, 2009, 05:05:21 AM »

    We have the HeartInterface Freedom 12 volt 2500 watt inverter. The only thing in our bus that will not work properly on our inverter is the digital clock radio in the bedroom.  When on inverter, the clock runs fast. Since our microwave/convection oven is not wired to operate off the inverter, I cannot comment of how well it would work.  The only things in our coach that are not wired through our inverter are the ACs, water heater, block heater and microwave/convection oven.  YMMV  Jack
Logged

Growing Older Is Mandatory, Growing Up Is Optional
Arcadia, Florida, When we are home
http://s682.photobucket.com/albums/vv186/OBS-JC/
bobofthenorth
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2092



WWW

Ignore
« Reply #19 on: April 23, 2009, 07:03:06 AM »

We have the same unit as Jack and the same experience with one bedroom clock.  The one on my side of the bed works just fine but the one on Marilyn's side goes absolutely schizo on the inverter.  It is so far out of touch with reality that I really couldn't say whether it runs fast or slow - its just plain wrong.  The clock on the micro/conv oven works fine as does the oven.  The only items onboard that don't run through the inverter are the water heater and the a/c.  All our electronics (DVD, TVs, computers, photo frames, external hard drive, photo printer, cell booster) seem to work just fine.
Logged

R.J.(Bob) Evans
1981 Prevost 8-92, 10 spd
My website
Our weblog
Simply growing older is not the same as living.
Jerry32
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 726





Ignore
« Reply #20 on: April 23, 2009, 09:42:31 AM »

I have the zantrex SW plus 4024 for a little lesss than two years and it just went haywire. It decided to change it's me,ory to a 5548 and reads the battery volts as 53 instead of 26. every twenty or thirty minutes it turns off for a few seconds and then back on . Untill I reser the memore it would not charge the batteries. Called zantrex about it and they said they never heard of such a thing and thought I was unable to hook the batteries up correctly. I told them It had been operating very well for over a year and half and I had not changes any battery config and the digital meter said the batteries were reading 24 volts. Jerry
Logged

1988 MCI 102A3 8V92TA 740
JohnEd
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4571




Ignore
« Reply #21 on: April 23, 2009, 11:25:48 AM »

Jerry,

Word on the street is that Zan has become less responsive to the customer than it used to be.  I haven't had that experience, personally.  Would seem to follow as they have eaten almost every other mfr out there and you know what happens "when you become too big to fail".

Zantrex repair seems to be done only by auth repair stations.  Two brief conversations with them leads me to believe that they are hungry.  They wanted more to repair than a new item costs LIST!  I forget their address....sure you are disappointed.

I have had great success with their "EMAIL" problem consult system.  Maybe my q's get to more or better people....don't know.  I do know that the advice was solid and they invited me to get back to them with any other questions.  Didn't sound unresponsive to me.  YMMV

Good luck with this,

John
Logged

"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
—Pla
cody
Guest

« Reply #22 on: April 25, 2009, 06:16:47 AM »

I found out the the electronics inthe oxygen machine will function just fine on MSW so that widens the area for me to look at.
Logged
buswarrior
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3571


'75 MC8 8V71 HT740




Ignore
« Reply #23 on: April 25, 2009, 07:38:42 AM »

cody, why not buy the 2000 watt unit for its features, and keep the 1000 unit in the mix to support some of your loads?

A bit of redundancy, the 3000 watts of power output you want, all for under $500?

happy coaching!
buswarrior
Logged

Frozen North, Greater Toronto Area
cody
Guest

« Reply #24 on: April 25, 2009, 07:59:53 AM »

BW, thats exactly what I was thinking, I'm looking into several ways of doing it, the 2000 lists being stackable as one of the features but not sure if it's stackable with the 1000 watt system, it also has a duel output so that may be a problem as it may want to split the power into 2-1000 watt systems that would make it a 3-1000 watt system or possibly it could be run with separate systems, I also found a magnum 2000 watt inverter that has the single output which might work out as well, I'm thinking that I could run some of the smaller circuits thru the 1000 watt one and leave the 2000 one for the heavier loads. I don't think the magnum is stackable with the 1000 watt but i've got some emails out with questions on it.  Another possibility is to keep the 1000 watt inverter cause it has the battery charger built into it and then go with a higher output system that is inverter only, some of them range as high as 6 to 8000 watts, not sure if they are any good or not but looking into all kinds of possibilites, what I don't want to loose is the ability to maintain my batteries, I'll probably have to add to my battery bank, I have 4 now but probably should have 8 or even 12. 
Logged
JohnEd
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4571




Ignore
« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2009, 10:10:39 AM »

Cody,

There are some areas where you can be penny wise and pound foolish in a heck of a hurry.  Inverters are one of those ares.....I am pretty sure.  People that are living with Zan 2KW units have told me, point blank, that I should not get less than 2.5KW and I should really try for 3KW.  I got a 2.5 because it was a heck of a deal but I was taking their advice and looking for a 3. 

You are talking about getting a large bat bank and that will probably involve at least two banks....start and house...that are kept separate under normal circumstances.  Large means that you want a lot of charging current in order to recover in less than 48 hours of charge time. Roll Eyes  I think my 2.5 came in at 140 amps charge AND it would charge two separate banks at the rate needed by each.  If you go to a large bank, and I think you should, you need the charge capacity. 

The 1KW unit has it's place.  Some use it to power their refer and configure the inv to get power ONLY when the refer thermo calls for cooling.  I did the same with a freeze protection circuit where the heating pump only got power when the thermo called for heating.  That worked well for me.  Don't throw it away as you might find the perfect use for it.

Look at that Zan chart of features I mentioned...great for decisions.

HTH,

John
Logged

"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
—Pla
cody
Guest

« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2009, 10:25:22 AM »

We've used the 1000 watt unit for 6 years now and it does what we want it to do but what I'm trying to do now is add the oxygen machine to the mix, the 1000 watt unit does a good job of the charging, it has a 100 amp 3 stage charger built in so that works pretty good, what I'm trying to do is increase my capacity, mostly I run the generator when we're on the road anyway, what I have in the bus is the 2-15K carrier heat punps, a microwave, household refridgerator, household 30 gallon water heater, a couple of tv's, outlets, a washer/dryer, assorted stuff like that, the generator is the honda 3000 inverter generator, we have a battery bank of 4-92AH AGM's, as you can see we've gotten fairly good at managing our energy usage lol.
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!