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Author Topic: Where to find really long heater hose?  (Read 2923 times)
belfert
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« on: April 23, 2009, 05:32:05 PM »

I have about a 6 or 8 foot long chunk of what looks like 1.5" or 2" heater hose going from one side of my engine to the other in a big loop.  It has a small pinhole leak in the middle of the hose where nothing could chafe it.

Any ideas where to get hose that long?  Everybody carries 3 foot sticks.  I can't even locate this hose in my parts manual to see if MCI sells it.  I'll have to call MCI in the morning.  My friend suggested a pipe to replace the bad section, but I worry another spot will start to leak if I don't replace the whole thing.

I still can't figure out why Dina saw fit to use the spot normally fitted with a block heater to run coolant out to the passenger heating system.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2009, 05:35:59 PM »

Replace it with copper.

Or cut the leak out and put a piece of copper pipe in it.


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Marcus
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« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2009, 05:51:21 PM »

If you have a marine surplus close by they should have it. Ours does in Sarasota fl. Marc
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BG6
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« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2009, 05:58:42 PM »

I have about a 6 or 8 foot long chunk of what looks like 1.5" or 2" heater hose going from one side of my engine to the other in a big loop.  It has a small pinhole leak in the middle of the hose where nothing could chafe it.

Any ideas where to get hose that long? 

Try NAPA or some other "real" auto parts shop.
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belfert
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« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2009, 06:22:52 PM »

Try NAPA or some other "real" auto parts shop.

I tried two NAPA stores that sell parts for heavy trucks already.  This type of hose seems to only be sold in three foot chunks.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2009, 06:30:03 PM »

Try NAPA or some other "real" auto parts shop.

I tried two NAPA stores that sell parts for heavy trucks already.  This type of hose seems to only be sold in three foot chunks.

Maybe you can find out which company makes it, and find a distributor who handles the longer sections.
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Airbag
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« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2009, 06:35:30 PM »

McMaster Carr or Grainger or JC Whitney "just shots in the dark"
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Lin
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« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2009, 06:50:41 PM »

An industrial hose company should have something that would work.
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« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2009, 07:00:48 PM »

I never would have thought of McMaster-Carr.  They do have hose in long lengths.

This should work I assume: http://www.mcmaster.com/#coolant-hose/=1ksbuj  Is the 212F going to be an issue?  The engine shouldn't be getting that hot anyhow.

Lin, I tried an industrial hose company last time I needed a 40" hose and I ended up with hose used for milking parlors.  It is rated for antifreeze and the proper temps so I bought it.  It is still going strong after two years.  I'll probably try the industrial hose place again before I order from McMaster-Carr.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2009, 07:50:12 PM »

Any parts store is only as good as the employees that work there. I have yet to find a decent employee at any of the napa stores around here. Even when I provided the correct napa part number for a lower radiator hose (after they couldn't find it), they wanted to charge me the unit price per foot . . . . yep, 10x the actual cost. (For a minute there I thought I was dealing with a talking bird  Shocked )

Industrial supply houses are where I find the best service. . . .

I'd think the 212F rated hose wouldn't be enough to provide lasting durability.
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« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2009, 08:51:33 PM »

I agree with Kyle.  212 isn't enuff.  I think the worse problem is that auto and truck stuff is grease, oil and fuel resistant.   I am not saying dairy hose doesn't meet that environment criteria.....but I think that needs to be verified.

John
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« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2009, 09:29:35 PM »

Use a short piece of metal pipe to tie two pieces of rubber pipe together to make your length?

I would look hard at the suggestion to make up a copper pipe to cover most of the distance and a couple of short pieces of straight stock rubber to attach the ends.

happy coaching!
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belfert
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« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2009, 04:33:58 AM »

I agree with Kyle.  212 isn't enuff.  I think the worse problem is that auto and truck stuff is grease, oil and fuel resistant.   I am not saying dairy hose doesn't meet that environment criteria.....but I think that needs to be verified.

The dairy hose is a seperate issue.  It was used to replace a smaller diameter hose that is around 39" long.  I didn't buy it before the saleman verified it was resistant to antifreeze and would meet the temp specs.  I don't know that diary hose would work a larger diameter anyhow.

Goodyear makes heater hose for trucks in long lengths, but the sizes are limited.  I need to figure out the exact size I need.

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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2009, 04:36:00 AM »

Typical heater/radiator hose has a 260 degree or more rating so the McMaster-Carr stuff won't work.  I am going to look at the costs of doing copper instead of hose.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2009, 04:54:12 AM »

Try Pirtek on the corner of University Ave. & Vandalia, St. Paul
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« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2009, 05:11:28 AM »

Radiator hose has come up several times in the past.  I have commented several times that there is a huge difference in hose construction for what is called automotive "coolant" hose. 

The hose we need is quite different from what you would buy for your car.  We need what is called "wrapped" hose.  This hose is only available in straight lengths and is quite thick walled compared to the automotive hose.  Automotive hose has very light "knit" reinforcement as opposed to wrapped on fabric.  The wrapped hose is built on a mandrel and is cured by wrapping nylon tape on the outside.  When it is moved into the autoclave, the nylon tape shrinks and compresses all of the layers of material as the curing takes place.

Having said that, the hose on the McMaster site is wrapped hose.  I could not tell who the manufacturer is, but McMaster uses quality vendors.  I am not hung up on the 212 degree rating.  As long as it is designed as a coolant hose it should be OK.

They talk about SAE J20 rating, but that is a very general standard with lots of sub classes.

What would I do?  I would buy NAPA hose in the three foot lengths and put a steel or copper joiner in the middle.  DO NOT put a joiner in your existing hose.  It already has a failure point and probably a few more waiting to happen. 

The "joiner" tube is a bit of an issue.  I think it should have a bead rolled on each end to keep the hose from slipping off.  I used a bead roller when I made all my tubing parts for the engine conversion.  You can see some of them on my project pages along with the unit I used to roll the beads.  Since you only have one part to make, You might consider using some exhaust tubing and have someone weld a bead on each end with a MIG welder.  You could also but a longer piece of pipe in the hose and double clamp on each end (use HD spring type clamps)

Every truck/bus application I have seen use metal (copper/steel) runners and short wrapped hose connectors.

Sorry for the rambling.

Jim
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Jim Shepherd
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« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2009, 05:29:13 AM »

Jim, no plans to use the cheap automotive grade hose.  I'm trying to find something like Goodyear's commercial Hi-Miler blue heater hose, but not having any luck locally or online.  The local industrial hose place specializing in Goodyear only has it in 1/2".

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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2009, 06:19:52 AM »

Best I can tell the hose is 1 1/2" ID without actually removing the hose.  Bigger than even Goodyear lists on their website.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2009, 07:23:45 AM »

Try these guys:

http://militarysupplier.org/pages/hosespecs.asp
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belfert
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« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2009, 07:41:05 AM »

I finally found someone at MCI who knows what they are talking about as far as Dinas and the heating system.  He emailed me a service bulletin that showed the hose in question.  From there we were able to identify the MCI part number. 

Apparently the passenger heating system on the Dinas has been reworked multiple times to get them working better.  Engineers in Mexico designing vehicles don't really care too much about heating like we do in the northern USA.

The hose is 1.5" diameter ID as I measured.  MCI has 32 feet of hose in stock, but they have no price for it and have to call me back.  MCI tech support recommended going to silicone, but I can't see paying $13 a foot for silicone hose when the rubber hose lasted 400,000 miles.  I might go ahead and replace any hose between the engine and the shutoff valves so I don't have another leak.  I don't want to replace the 100 feet or more of hose going to the front of the bus, but I can at least turn that off if it leaks.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2009, 01:58:30 PM »

MCI called me back with a price for the 1.5" ID heater hose.  $170 for the entire 32 foot chunk they have.

I am thinking I might be better off with silicone hose from McMaster-Carr for less $$ unless I can find some other 1.5" hose on my bus that could be replaced.  I am worried that the hose MCI has in stock has potentially been on the shelf for years.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2009, 04:44:32 PM »

MCI called me back with a price for the 1.5" ID heater hose.  $170 for the entire 32 foot chunk they have.

I am thinking I might be better off with silicone hose from McMaster-Carr for less $$ unless I can find some other 1.5" hose on my bus that could be replaced.  I am worried that the hose MCI has in stock has potentially been on the shelf for years.


Belfert
I would order a length of Mil-6000 hose and specify a fresh piece/ it has the manufacturer date right on it. We use this hose in the aircraft industry for oil and fuel and coolant on large aircraft. this is just one vendor, there are lots of them.

http://www.skygeek.com/mil-h-6000-1-1-2.html

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Dallas
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« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2009, 06:47:56 PM »

Brian,

My question is, why are you so adamant about not replacing the hose with a metal tube? Most of the literature that I've read says to treat any long run with the shortest piece of hose possible and use metal tube in between. I have a feeling from the information you imparted to us previously that the Dina engineers weren't interested in the heating of the bus. Most, if not all of the other buses I've worked on all have short runs of hose connecting long runs of metal tube, usually copper. That's why Eagle, MCI, GMC, Neoplan, Novabus, Scania, Volvo, and all the UK buses, (Hi Jeremy!), all use as little hose as possible.

It's your bus, and your choice, but it seems to me that you would be much better off with the aforementioned metal tube.

Dallas

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belfert
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« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2009, 08:19:45 PM »

Two reasons why to use hose:

1. It is easy to replace and the original lasted 400,000 so a replacement hose should last as long as I own the bus.
2. Finding 1.5" copper pipe is almost as hard as 1.5" hose and copper is not exactly cheap.  I would then have to solder the copper pipe, or find copper tubing in 1.5".  I am not exactly the world's best at soldering copper although I have done it a fair bit.

I'm not 100% opposed to using copper pipe if I could find a supplier locally.  Would I have issues with short pieces of hoses sliding off the copper without a bead on the end?

The issue with the heating system on the Dina is the engineering, not the use of rubber hose instead of copper.  At this point I would almost be better off redoing most of the system since I no longer have the Webasto, passenger heater core, or the radiators along the wall.  An even better idea would be to just hook the Proheat diesel heater to the defroster and disconnect the entire heat system.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #24 on: April 25, 2009, 01:23:46 AM »

That's why Eagle, MCI, GMC, Neoplan, Novabus, Scania, Volvo, and all the UK buses, (Hi Jeremy!), all use as little hose as possible.

Mine does indeed have long runs of copper tube - not only for the passenger heating system but for the radiator plumbing as well - the radiator in my bus is some distance from the engine, as the engine is in the middle and the radiator is at the front

Jeremy
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« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2009, 04:44:23 AM »

Brian. I used exhaust tubing for all my plumbing in the conversion.  That was a lot of different sizes for cooling, air to air, air inlet, etc.  However, you can get the right size for each need at the local NAPA store. 

For the radiator, copper has an edge on corrosion resistance, but I think that the steel tubing will last as long as I will live.

Nothing wrong with long length hose IF IT IS SUPPORTED properly.

Jim
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Jim Shepherd
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« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2009, 07:21:44 AM »

If you can't get a bead onto the edges of your metal pipes right away... or suspect you may have no bead on installed items...

A hose clamp tightened onto the metal pipe closely upstream from the connection, and the hose clamp squeezing your rubber pipe may be wired together to resist the rubber pipe slipping off the smooth metal when operational...

Saved me when the PO had used a piece of smooth pipe to connect two rubber ones in the inline Webasto set-up... pounding up the highway, green stuff pouring out the bottom of the baggage doors like a water bomber....

happy coaching!
buswarrior

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« Reply #27 on: April 25, 2009, 07:32:29 AM »

Sweat big copper with 2 propane torches, it's easy.  Any good plumbing supply will have the copper but you're right it is $$$$ in that size.  Here is a real cheap idea, use black pipe with screw on fittings, the threaded ends will hold a rubber hose real nice, just pass the threads with the rubber and clamp 2X,past
and on the threads
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