Bus Conversions dot Com Bulletin Board
October 31, 2014, 04:46:48 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: If you had an Online Subscription: It will not be stolen by your mailman or your neighbor who also may be into buses.
   Home   Help Forum Rules Search Calendar Login Register BCM Home Page Contact BCM  
Pages: 1 [2]  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Where to find really long heater hose?  (Read 2947 times)
rv_safetyman
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Posts: 2199


Jim Shepherd


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2009, 05:11:28 AM »

Radiator hose has come up several times in the past.  I have commented several times that there is a huge difference in hose construction for what is called automotive "coolant" hose. 

The hose we need is quite different from what you would buy for your car.  We need what is called "wrapped" hose.  This hose is only available in straight lengths and is quite thick walled compared to the automotive hose.  Automotive hose has very light "knit" reinforcement as opposed to wrapped on fabric.  The wrapped hose is built on a mandrel and is cured by wrapping nylon tape on the outside.  When it is moved into the autoclave, the nylon tape shrinks and compresses all of the layers of material as the curing takes place.

Having said that, the hose on the McMaster site is wrapped hose.  I could not tell who the manufacturer is, but McMaster uses quality vendors.  I am not hung up on the 212 degree rating.  As long as it is designed as a coolant hose it should be OK.

They talk about SAE J20 rating, but that is a very general standard with lots of sub classes.

What would I do?  I would buy NAPA hose in the three foot lengths and put a steel or copper joiner in the middle.  DO NOT put a joiner in your existing hose.  It already has a failure point and probably a few more waiting to happen. 

The "joiner" tube is a bit of an issue.  I think it should have a bead rolled on each end to keep the hose from slipping off.  I used a bead roller when I made all my tubing parts for the engine conversion.  You can see some of them on my project pages along with the unit I used to roll the beads.  Since you only have one part to make, You might consider using some exhaust tubing and have someone weld a bead on each end with a MIG welder.  You could also but a longer piece of pipe in the hose and double clamp on each end (use HD spring type clamps)

Every truck/bus application I have seen use metal (copper/steel) runners and short wrapped hose connectors.

Sorry for the rambling.

Jim
Logged

Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
Somewhere between a tin tent and a finished product
Bus Project details: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog:  http://rvsafetyman.blogspot.com/
belfert
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5448




Ignore
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2009, 05:29:13 AM »

Jim, no plans to use the cheap automotive grade hose.  I'm trying to find something like Goodyear's commercial Hi-Miler blue heater hose, but not having any luck locally or online.  The local industrial hose place specializing in Goodyear only has it in 1/2".

Logged

Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
belfert
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5448




Ignore
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2009, 06:19:52 AM »

Best I can tell the hose is 1 1/2" ID without actually removing the hose.  Bigger than even Goodyear lists on their website.
Logged

Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
Airbag
Guest

« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2009, 07:23:45 AM »

Try these guys:

http://militarysupplier.org/pages/hosespecs.asp
Logged
belfert
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5448




Ignore
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2009, 07:41:05 AM »

I finally found someone at MCI who knows what they are talking about as far as Dinas and the heating system.  He emailed me a service bulletin that showed the hose in question.  From there we were able to identify the MCI part number. 

Apparently the passenger heating system on the Dinas has been reworked multiple times to get them working better.  Engineers in Mexico designing vehicles don't really care too much about heating like we do in the northern USA.

The hose is 1.5" diameter ID as I measured.  MCI has 32 feet of hose in stock, but they have no price for it and have to call me back.  MCI tech support recommended going to silicone, but I can't see paying $13 a foot for silicone hose when the rubber hose lasted 400,000 miles.  I might go ahead and replace any hose between the engine and the shutoff valves so I don't have another leak.  I don't want to replace the 100 feet or more of hose going to the front of the bus, but I can at least turn that off if it leaks.
Logged

Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
belfert
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5448




Ignore
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2009, 01:58:30 PM »

MCI called me back with a price for the 1.5" ID heater hose.  $170 for the entire 32 foot chunk they have.

I am thinking I might be better off with silicone hose from McMaster-Carr for less $$ unless I can find some other 1.5" hose on my bus that could be replaced.  I am worried that the hose MCI has in stock has potentially been on the shelf for years.
Logged

Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
Airbag
Guest

« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2009, 04:44:32 PM »

MCI called me back with a price for the 1.5" ID heater hose.  $170 for the entire 32 foot chunk they have.

I am thinking I might be better off with silicone hose from McMaster-Carr for less $$ unless I can find some other 1.5" hose on my bus that could be replaced.  I am worried that the hose MCI has in stock has potentially been on the shelf for years.


Belfert
I would order a length of Mil-6000 hose and specify a fresh piece/ it has the manufacturer date right on it. We use this hose in the aircraft industry for oil and fuel and coolant on large aircraft. this is just one vendor, there are lots of them.

http://www.skygeek.com/mil-h-6000-1-1-2.html

Logged
Dallas
Guest

« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2009, 06:47:56 PM »

Brian,

My question is, why are you so adamant about not replacing the hose with a metal tube? Most of the literature that I've read says to treat any long run with the shortest piece of hose possible and use metal tube in between. I have a feeling from the information you imparted to us previously that the Dina engineers weren't interested in the heating of the bus. Most, if not all of the other buses I've worked on all have short runs of hose connecting long runs of metal tube, usually copper. That's why Eagle, MCI, GMC, Neoplan, Novabus, Scania, Volvo, and all the UK buses, (Hi Jeremy!), all use as little hose as possible.

It's your bus, and your choice, but it seems to me that you would be much better off with the aforementioned metal tube.

Dallas

Logged
belfert
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 5448




Ignore
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2009, 08:19:45 PM »

Two reasons why to use hose:

1. It is easy to replace and the original lasted 400,000 so a replacement hose should last as long as I own the bus.
2. Finding 1.5" copper pipe is almost as hard as 1.5" hose and copper is not exactly cheap.  I would then have to solder the copper pipe, or find copper tubing in 1.5".  I am not exactly the world's best at soldering copper although I have done it a fair bit.

I'm not 100% opposed to using copper pipe if I could find a supplier locally.  Would I have issues with short pieces of hoses sliding off the copper without a bead on the end?

The issue with the heating system on the Dina is the engineering, not the use of rubber hose instead of copper.  At this point I would almost be better off redoing most of the system since I no longer have the Webasto, passenger heater core, or the radiators along the wall.  An even better idea would be to just hook the Proheat diesel heater to the defroster and disconnect the entire heat system.
Logged

Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
Jeremy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1894


1987 Bedford Plaxton


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #24 on: April 25, 2009, 01:23:46 AM »

That's why Eagle, MCI, GMC, Neoplan, Novabus, Scania, Volvo, and all the UK buses, (Hi Jeremy!), all use as little hose as possible.

Mine does indeed have long runs of copper tube - not only for the passenger heating system but for the radiator plumbing as well - the radiator in my bus is some distance from the engine, as the engine is in the middle and the radiator is at the front

Jeremy
Logged

A shameless plug for my business - visit www.magazineexchange.co.uk for back issue magazines - thousands of titles covering cars, motorbikes, aircraft, railways, boats, modelling etc. You'll find lots of interest, although not much covering American buses sadly.
rv_safetyman
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Posts: 2199


Jim Shepherd


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2009, 04:44:23 AM »

Brian. I used exhaust tubing for all my plumbing in the conversion.  That was a lot of different sizes for cooling, air to air, air inlet, etc.  However, you can get the right size for each need at the local NAPA store. 

For the radiator, copper has an edge on corrosion resistance, but I think that the steel tubing will last as long as I will live.

Nothing wrong with long length hose IF IT IS SUPPORTED properly.

Jim
Logged

Jim Shepherd
Evergreen, CO
85 Eagle 10/Series 60/Eaton AutoShift 10 speed transmission
Somewhere between a tin tent and a finished product
Bus Project details: http://beltguy.com/Bus_Project/busproject.htm
Blog:  http://rvsafetyman.blogspot.com/
buswarrior
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 3571


'75 MC8 8V71 HT740




Ignore
« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2009, 07:21:44 AM »

If you can't get a bead onto the edges of your metal pipes right away... or suspect you may have no bead on installed items...

A hose clamp tightened onto the metal pipe closely upstream from the connection, and the hose clamp squeezing your rubber pipe may be wired together to resist the rubber pipe slipping off the smooth metal when operational...

Saved me when the PO had used a piece of smooth pipe to connect two rubber ones in the inline Webasto set-up... pounding up the highway, green stuff pouring out the bottom of the baggage doors like a water bomber....

happy coaching!
buswarrior

Logged

Frozen North, Greater Toronto Area
zubzub
Hero Member
*****
Online Online

Posts: 1164


'53 4104. Roadworthy but rough around the edges.


WWW

Ignore
« Reply #27 on: April 25, 2009, 07:32:29 AM »

Sweat big copper with 2 propane torches, it's easy.  Any good plumbing supply will have the copper but you're right it is $$$$ in that size.  Here is a real cheap idea, use black pipe with screw on fittings, the threaded ends will hold a rubber hose real nice, just pass the threads with the rubber and clamp 2X,past
and on the threads
Logged

Pages: 1 [2]  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!