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Author Topic: woodworking ideas and solutions  (Read 5431 times)
cody
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« on: April 25, 2009, 08:12:02 AM »

I"m doing up some articles for chad on taking the mystery out of some woodworking projects, the first one I'm tackling is dovetailing for drawer boxes. It seems anytime a person thinks about dovetailing, the picture of a little old guy sitting over a board with a backsaw or a mallet and chisel comes to mind.  That was all well and good 100 years ago but now with the low cost jigs and tools available it's very easy to do and most people that are whacking a bus conversion together probably already have most of the tooling needed. What I'm looking for is what you want me to do in the writeups, I'm thinking that possibly doing up faceframes, maybe how to do up raised panel doors, glue joints, etc, I know that this is old information to many here but some may not have been exposed to sawdust and maybe there are some questions that I might be able to answer, I'm just looking for ideas on what those questions might be.  Keep the questions simple, remember that just because I'm buttugly that doesn't mean I'm smart.
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« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2009, 08:26:23 AM »

Great idea Cody.  I think one thing that applies to us is contouring the cabinets to the bus wall.  Any ideas, tricks or tips would be very valuable.
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Dallas
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« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2009, 08:35:50 AM »

making a dutchman, mortising hinges, figuring the amount of lumber needed for a particular job, explaining the differences between hardwood, softwood, laminates, etc.
Is it cheaper to buy larger sizes of wood and resaw it, or is it better to buy dimensional lumber already cut?
Tools: What kind? What Quality? Pro's and Con's of spending a lot of money for a tool to only use a couple of times or buying a cheaper tool that isn't gonna do as good a job.
Fastening systems, You've already mentioned Dovetail joints, what about box joints? Rabbet Joint's, scarf joint's to connect two short pieces of wood to make a long one? Not to mention the sleazy beer joints and sore aching joints.

More questions later. These should keep you busy for a paragraph or two.

Dallas
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« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2009, 08:40:49 PM »

How about some pointers on finishes? Stains, oils, etc. Sand papers, steel wools, when and which? The list of questions is endless LOL It can be very tricky matching differing woods in the same bus, any pointers on this would be appreciated also.
Thanks and good luck, Will & Wife
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« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2009, 08:52:14 PM »

Cody, you said..."Keep the questions simple, remember that just because I'm buttugly that doesn't mean I'm smart."
One of my friends says it like this..."When are you going to realize that I'm not just a pretty face"!

Ho about one on how to make those really nifty deals where the drawers all slide out at once?
Jack
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cody
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« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2009, 05:51:39 AM »

Jack, libby read the thing on making all the drawers slide out at once, she laughed and asked me if you were talking about going around corners too fast lol.
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« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2009, 06:03:28 AM »

Cody...you tell Libby to laugh all she wants...we were glad to give her the laugh! Grin
I saw someone coach in which the had a wrap-around kitchen.  one end of it was made to where the whole 4 drawers slide out as a unit in order to be able to use all of the space for storage.  In other words it was about three and a half feet deep and you just pulled it toward the other wall as one unit...or you could pull out one drawer at a time.
Jack
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« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2009, 06:09:59 AM »

Face frames.
Cabinet box construction.
Cabinet doors.
Attaching cabinets to the wall, floor and ceiling.
Cabinet latches and keeping the doors and drawers closed for travel.



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cody
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« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2009, 06:15:16 AM »

I saw one setup that was electric, was cool, just touch the button and hmmmmmmm out came the drawer, touch it again and hmmmmmmmmmm back in it went, I wanted to tear that one apart so bad to see who's setup they had behind it but the guy had spent a lot of money at marathon to get his bus and for some reason he didn't want me to take it apart lol.  I have looked and looked for that hardware lol, I even talked to steve, a friend at marathon and he just laughed and said if he told me all their secrets they'd never get a customer lol.  When I saw your post I thought of that prevo, was really cool.
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« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2009, 06:27:54 AM »

Please set up a series of articles regarding all these topics. I just finished writing an article on comparing the different costs of cabinets. I did not even consider home built as I do not have the tools or skills (yet!).

Can't wait.

Grant
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Dallas
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« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2009, 06:39:49 AM »

That might be fun to build!
I think a piece of coarse threaded rod attached to a DC motor with a nut attached to the bottom of the drawer. A switch on the wall attached to a reversing circuit? of some sort, or a reversing relay? so when the button was pushed once it would come out, when pushed again it would retract.
Probably an old Shurflo water pump motor would work, or maybe a starter motor off a lawn tractor engine? Just thinking under the box!

I saw one setup that was electric, was cool, just touch the button and hmmmmmmm out came the drawer, touch it again and hmmmmmmmmmm back in it went, I wanted to tear that one apart so bad to see who's setup they had behind it but the guy had spent a lot of money at marathon to get his bus and for some reason he didn't want me to take it apart lol.  I have looked and looked for that hardware lol, I even talked to steve, a friend at marathon and he just laughed and said if he told me all their secrets they'd never get a customer lol.  When I saw your post I thought of that prevo, was really cool.
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cody
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« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2009, 06:50:43 AM »

Grant, what I'm trying to do is take the mystery out of some of the ideas, most of the shows you see on tv, show all those fancy tools and setups that guys drool over but strike fear into the checkbook and I've spent years piling up tools of one sort or another, some that only do one job, others that are more universal, what brought on this idea was from a round table discussion where one guy brought up the idea of why can't I do that with simple tools, the tools most anyone has laying around and make it look good.  So the workshop isn't going to be involved, just the driveway and some sawhorses with planks for a workbench and we're going to do some stuff with common everyday tools, nothing is going to get steam bent, the computerized lathe won't be doing any queen anne leg sets, but we'll do some stuff like raised panel doors, dovetailing, face frames made easy, some jigs that a person can use to get the wall curves from, stuff like that.  The beauty of it is that most of the tools will be what almost all of us have already.  The nice thing about sawdust piling is that most of the steps are pretty simple, a person just does them over and over lol, kinda like apologizing to the wife lol.
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« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2009, 07:04:27 AM »

Can't wait! Can't wait!

I love to watch skilled woodworkers do their thing. I really appreciate their finished products. It would be great to have someone take the concepts of building cabinets for a conversion from concept to finished installation. I can see a whole years worth of articles. I would be willing to "sacrifice" Grin my bus and my wallet  Shocked, if some skilled cabinet maker would be willing to slowly teach me the steps, build the cabinets, and work with me on pictures for several BCM articles. Anybody? 
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« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2009, 12:06:38 PM »


......  Ho about one on how to make those really nifty deals where the drawers all slide out at once?
Jack


I have one of those! Grin


It's called a left turn!!! Cheesy
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« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2009, 12:14:04 PM »

That might be fun to build!
I think a piece of coarse threaded rod attached to a DC motor with a nut attached to the bottom of the drawer. A switch on the wall attached to a reversing circuit? of some sort, or a reversing relay? so when the button was pushed once it would come out, when pushed again it would retract.
Probably an old Shurflo water pump motor would work, or maybe a starter motor off a lawn tractor engine? Just thinking under the box!

I saw one setup that was electric, was cool, just touch the button and hmmmmmmm out came the drawer, touch it again and hmmmmmmmmmm back in it went, I wanted to tear that one apart so bad to see who's setup they had behind it but the guy had spent a lot of money at marathon to get his bus and for some reason he didn't want me to take it apart lol.  I have looked and looked for that hardware lol, I even talked to steve, a friend at marathon and he just laughed and said if he told me all their secrets they'd never get a customer lol.  When I saw your post I thought of that prevo, was really cool.
The hardware for that runs about $800. to 2000. sawbucks. But if you do make your own, what happens if the motor RPMs are too high-could become a super-large wooden projectile LOL FWIW Will
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Dallas
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« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2009, 12:26:06 PM »

Will,
It's always easy to find how things won't work, the trick is to make them work the way you want them to, with only the available materials at hand.
An old saying from one of those military services comes to mind... Improvise, Adapt, Overcome!
If it's possible to take a tree, which doesn't resemble a cabinet at all and with a bit of perseverance, turn it into a cabinet or a table or a campfire, why is it so far fetched to imagine using the aforementioned items to build something that would sell for a couple of grand?
Besides, DC motors aren't that hard to slow down if needed. Wink

That might be fun to build!
I think a piece of coarse threaded rod attached to a DC motor with a nut attached to the bottom of the drawer. A switch on the wall attached to a reversing circuit? of some sort, or a reversing relay? so when the button was pushed once it would come out, when pushed again it would retract.
Probably an old Shurflo water pump motor would work, or maybe a starter motor off a lawn tractor engine? Just thinking under the box!

I saw one setup that was electric, was cool, just touch the button and hmmmmmmm out came the drawer, touch it again and hmmmmmmmmmm back in it went, I wanted to tear that one apart so bad to see who's setup they had behind it but the guy had spent a lot of money at marathon to get his bus and for some reason he didn't want me to take it apart lol.  I have looked and looked for that hardware lol, I even talked to steve, a friend at marathon and he just laughed and said if he told me all their secrets they'd never get a customer lol.  When I saw your post I thought of that prevo, was really cool.
The hardware for that runs about $800. to 2000. sawbucks. But if you do make your own, what happens if the motor RPMs are too high-could become a super-large wooden projectile LOL FWIW Will
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« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2009, 04:37:05 PM »

There also is some hardware out there where you pull the drawer out, then give it a little nudge and it closes itself, fast at first then it slows down at the very end.  No electricity.

Ray D
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cody
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« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2009, 04:47:15 PM »

There is an endless variety of hardware available for doors and drawers, my concern here is more to show some methods of making a nice looking set of cabinets without breaking the bank, two goals that are important to all of us is to make mama happy and still leave a fair amount in the beer fund lol, besides look how pleased mama will be to see what all is possible lol.
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« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2009, 06:25:41 PM »

Oh Great~Now you come with the how to's for building cabinets right after I bought some ready made!  Grin The one thing that scared me was all the fancy tools that cost so much! It's not that I didn't have the desire, it's the fact that it would take so much time to learn. I just didn't have the time, we were pushed to move in! Oh well, maybe I can learn something that will help me build a birdhouse! Roll Eyes

Go for it cody and I'll learn how anyway!

~Paul~
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« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2009, 09:56:15 PM »


If it's possible to take a tree, which doesn't resemble a cabinet at all and with a bit of perseverance, turn it into a cabinet or a table or a campfire,





 Even I can build a campfire!! Cheesy Cheesy Cheesy Mitch
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« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2009, 09:15:50 AM »

I sure would like to see several of you, experts with wood,  provide the rest of us with articles that layout how we can learn to build cabinets. I am sure there are a variety of topics and "tricks of the trade" that most of you would be able to provide.

How about a half dozen of you each decide to write up a little article for a cabinet building section on BCM?

Come on guys, we could all use some of your insight. I know I surely could benefit from focused presentations.

FYI, I need lots of pictures!  Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin


Grant
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« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2009, 09:28:25 AM »

Every so often I have to build a cab door or two for a project.  I would like to know how to cut melamine particle board with a tables saw and not get blow out on one face.  Right now the only way I know is to rough out blanks with the saw and then use a router and straight edge to finish the edges....and.....it's........so..............ssslllowwwwwwwwwwwwwww.
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Dallas
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« Reply #22 on: April 27, 2009, 09:41:06 AM »

Try putting a piece of scrap over the place you are going to be cutting and use double stick tape to hold it to the melamine, cut through both the MDO and the scrap as if they were one piece. It won't stop the tear outs completely, but will get 90%+ of it. The tighter he scrap is to the MDO, the fewer tear outs you'll get.

Every so often I have to build a cab door or two for a project.  I would like to know how to cut melamine particle board with a tables saw and not get blow out on one face.  Right now the only way I know is to rough out blanks with the saw and then use a router and straight edge to finish the edges....and.....it's........so..............ssslllowwwwwwwwwwwwwww.
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« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2009, 10:19:15 AM »

Every so often I have to build a cab door or two for a project.  I would like to know how to cut melamine particle board with a tables saw and not get blow out on one face.  Right now the only way I know is to rough out blanks with the saw and then use a router and straight edge to finish the edges....and.....it's........so..............ssslllowwwwwwwwwwwwwww.

Try using a double cut!

Lower your blade to between 1/2-3/4 through on the first cut, then flip it over and run it threw your table saw on the other side.    If your blade is at least 80T, it wll also help.


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« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2009, 10:47:01 AM »

As for those electronic self opening/closing drawers? Why not do what I did for my tv? I used a pair of drawer slides, only vertical! You could do this fairly easy and it would gaurantee, no drawers opening while moving!
Now that I think about it, it would easier than my tv!
Hmm, now that I think about it even further, nobody mention this idea around Susan EVER!

Ace
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« Reply #25 on: April 27, 2009, 11:22:23 AM »

ZubZub,

The suggestions about cutting with a backup are very true.....and they only eliminate "most" of it.  Maybe enuf for your purposes.

Remember that sage advice of "it's ALL in the wrist, Son".  Remember that?  In wood working that changes just a little.  Comes out "its all in the SAW BLADE, fella".  And it is.  The blade you want has a lot more teeth per blade than you now have but I can't say how many.  Look into a "Plywood" blade.  I get the best performance from "carbide tipped blades" of any flavor.  I think that is because the tips are attached before they are ground so the blade ends up as true as a really spendy bent tooth blade of yesteryear.  I don't think they make the really small tooth plywood blades from carbide tips but you will find out.  Point here is that the highest tooth count you can find in carbide may do the trick for you.

If you can make you finish cut on a band saw....well, they don't chop up the edges at all if your blade is sharp. 

That advice on making two cuts is to be cherished.

HTH,

John
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« Reply #26 on: April 27, 2009, 11:37:36 AM »

Cody,

I can buy cabinet making books all day long....and past that.  To any level and degree using whatever tool set there is and in tricolor extra gloss print.  The woods are thick with it. No pun intended.

Here is what's lacking...IMHO:  First of all, digress to the building stage and WHY.  We are supposed to have solid wood behind the skin to allow attachment of cabinets to be firmly attached to the walls AND ceiling.  Nice to see how that is accomplished. and how you wood attach to them.  Then there is the "I didn't install those crowd and what should they do?  I think a LOT of guys would elect to install ready made cabinets and how to smooth out that deal would be good data.  Also, there are a tournament of manufacturing styles associated with ready made and what to look for and what to reject is great info.  Like, how to burn before install all particle board "ANYWHERE" cabinets.

Any cabnet features peculiar to Buses would reduce your overall work load.  That level would still break my author back but you are heftier in knowledge than scrawny me. (260 and counting)  Self closing and latching doors jump right to mind.

Let me know if I can help.  Like with sharpening pencils or similar....

John
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« Reply #27 on: April 28, 2009, 06:40:35 AM »

For cutting melamine on a table saw with no scoring blade the blade choice is very important.  Most melamine blades are ATB type and have different bevel angles on the teeth and a low rake angle on the tooth than other blades. the one we used to use is from FS tool http://www.fstoolcorp.com/Products/Saw%20Blades/Laminate%20-%20Chip-Free%20Cut.aspx  Another key is the blade height when cutting which can significantly change the angle that the blade enters the material.  Raise the blade just enough to to stop the chipping on the top and you will get the best results on the bottom.  Also use a throat plate that is tight around the blade, most table saws come with one that is wide to accommodate dado sets.  We used to cut laminated panels and melamine chip free on table saws every day with these blades a few years ago but now we cut several thousand sheets a month and have moved to a different type of machine that does a perfect job but it is not practical for occasional use.
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« Reply #28 on: April 28, 2009, 08:09:26 AM »

yeah I use most of the tricks already mentioned, but it might be time for a better blade. I have been using a finishing blade but not one dedicated to melamine. Mostly because the last dedicated melamine blade didn't last long and did not impress me much...thanks to all for the tips...
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« Reply #29 on: May 01, 2009, 03:38:23 PM »

Will,
It's always easy to find how things won't work, the trick is to make them work the way you want them to, with only the available materials at hand.

Dallas, I only mentioned the motor speed because the subject reminded me of a time in an RV park where a camper with a 5ver was getting ready to leave and his slide wouldn't go in. Not being a mechanical person, he called the local mobile RV repair. The guy determined that the motor had burned out. Since he didn't have one in stock to match the one in it, he put in a different one that he had handy. When the owner pushed the slide button, that slide went in so fast and came to such an abrupt stop that the entire stereo/TV center broke loose. It was a mess to say the least. But he got his slide in so yes, you are right, make it work with the available materials at hand. LOL Will
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« Reply #30 on: May 02, 2009, 12:54:04 PM »

For a sure fire way of cutting melamine and plywood with no chipout mimic how a saw with a scoring blade works.

Raise your blade just a hair above the table (1/32 in). Then run you panel over the blade BACKWARDS. Because the blade is exposed so little there is no danger that it will grab the panel. This will score the panel. Then raise the blade and run the panel the usual direction.

It takes a little longer but there is absolutely NO chipout.

On my saw I use one blade (Forrest) for everything including corsscutting, riping and melamine. Even with this blade I get NO chipout.

Fred Mc.   
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« Reply #31 on: May 02, 2009, 02:25:49 PM »

YES!  This is what I was trying to remember.  I knew there was a way I had read about it but......
Like Fred I do have a decent finishing blade that I do most of my cutting with ( except construction rough in stuff.
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« Reply #32 on: May 03, 2009, 08:10:32 PM »

cody, for those of us that mentally tool challenged, you could explain the difference between a saw, a chisel, and a hammer.  i recently enlarged a cabinet depth for a star choice satellite receiver with a hole saw.  about six holes across the back since the owner insisted even though i told him i had no sawzall or any saw, just hole saw.

real ugly, but it worked and he said no one would see it.  obviously, he had an s&s mh.

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« Reply #33 on: May 04, 2009, 03:40:01 AM »

Wow, Tom, thats a tough one, I wasn't prepared for the degree of difficulty this is going to involve lol.
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« Reply #34 on: May 04, 2009, 04:26:42 AM »

Quote
The beauty of it is that most of the tools will be what almost all of us have already.

I agree wholeheartedly with everyone's comments except the irresponsible one above! Angry Angry

I spend the last 20+ years convincing Larry that project after project requires new and different tools, and here you go trying to undermine my argument and ruin a perfect system! Cry 

If you want to stay in my good graces, you'll feature at least one project that requires a 20" planer with a spiral cutter! Wink  Thanks, Christy Hicks  Grin
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« Reply #35 on: May 04, 2009, 05:05:41 AM »

I would be nice if you would explain what that loud, high pitched, whining noise is when I use the table saw.

I mean, For years I've used the table saw, moving the wood back and forth a number of times and making pretty good cuts, even if it was really a lot slower than using my hand saw.
Then the other day, a little neighbor girl came by and picked up a cord and plugged it into the wall receptacle. The table saw started making such a racket and the blade started spinning really fast.
Boy, it scared me so bad I had to come back in and hide.
It seems to me that if the blade is gonna spin, couldn't that make a person more likely to be hurt? And what about the noise? How about what it might do to the wood?

Expiring minds want to know!

Dallas
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« Reply #36 on: May 04, 2009, 06:47:34 AM »


  Dallas,

      now that's funny Smiley

   What do you guys think of this router cnc
    http://buildyourcnc.com/default.aspx

     I can't really justify (afford) a real one Smiley I have 2 extra laptops I'll have to upgrade
     from windows 98 but for a cnc I might be tempted.

    Let me know please Smiley

     Skip
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« Reply #37 on: May 04, 2009, 07:27:55 AM »

Skip, I got hooked as soon as I saw computer, bearings, router and tools all together in one project!

I'm just having a hard enough time building my own router-shaper table and having it make accurate cuts.
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« Reply #38 on: May 04, 2009, 07:49:03 AM »

  Yep I'm hooked so I'll save up for one.

  About the only thing I could see to add to the thing would be a vacum table.

 I hear ya on the accurate.
When I built custom molding for the old house I bought a router table. Not real pleased
 with the fence set-up on it and then last year my old table saw wore out and I had to buy a new
 table saw and don't like the fence on it either.

   I don't buy bargian basement stuff and I'm not going to buy the 220v stuff either. All I ask
 is the fence be true. (or at least stay true once I get it set-up)
  Though I have to be careful about that I once spent all day trueing up my 36" sqaure only
  to find out the borrowed expensive square I was going against wasn't true.

   I guess I'm down to buying fence upgrades from places like Rockler Sad
     
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« Last Edit: May 04, 2009, 08:24:32 AM by poppi » Logged

Snow disappeared......Now where did I put that bus?
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