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Author Topic: So, do I need tanks???  (Read 3624 times)
John316
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« on: May 14, 2009, 08:17:12 AM »

Actually, I think that we have made up our minds. We have decided to put tanks into our bus Grin. I have read the archives, on the subject, but still have some questions.

Here is what we need. I am looking at what sizes to get. Often when we travel, there will be ten people on board (large family). We have considered at least a 200 gallon fresh water, and don't know how to split the gray and the black water.

My questions...Is 200 fresh enough? Where do we put it? We were thinking about putting it under the bed in the back, but thought that much weight behind the axles might be a little much (not to mention we will be pulling a cargo trailer that is 16'/8' with a 14K GVWR). We would like to get all of our tanks in the third bay, but it will be a VERY tight squeeze. We are getting rid of the OTR AC so that will give us a little extra wiggle room. The third bay is 8 feet long, so it is our biggest bay. We also have a 20 KW generator in their (which is good sized), and 2 trace inverters (stacked). We will move our batteries into the place where the AC coils were, and save the outer part where condenser was, for a backup 8KW generator. Do we need one or two water pumps (I am thinking two, just because it would be a backup).

Also, what kind of toilet should we get. I thought that I heard Microphor (maybe?) was recommended, but I don't remember. We want to get high quality stuff. And where do we get a shower? Do you buy them, or make you own?

Any advice, or criticism, on these issues, would be GREATLY appreciated. Some of you guys have a wealth of information, and I would love some of your ideas. This is our first, and it is a little tough.

Thanks in advance,

God bless,

John
« Last Edit: May 14, 2009, 08:20:41 AM by John316 » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2009, 08:33:27 AM »

As you already stated, ALL of the answers to your questions are in the archives and a little leg work on your part will put the answers in front of you! These things have been discussed over and over so if they keep being brought up, why keep archives?
My opinion!
Ace
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John316
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« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2009, 08:43:06 AM »

Ace,

Thanks for your post. I have been looking through the archives. I think that search feature is what is a little lacking. But I will keep trying. From what I have seen so far, my questions here still weren't answered.

Thanks.

God bless,

John
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« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2009, 08:51:49 AM »

With my wife and I, we can go a week on 130 gal of fresh.  That works out to be 9.3 gal per day per person (this is taking Navy showers and washing dishes).  I think if you used 8 gal a day per person, since little people take less to shower, that would be a good rule.  So 200 gal would get almost 3 days of dry camping for you.
When I was truck driving I had a 20 gal toilet tank that lasted one week.  That translates into 2.8 gal per day per person, or 28 gal per day for you.  So to keep with the same 3 day schedule, that would be a 84 gal black tank, and with simple subtraction from 200, a 116 gal gray water tank to also get you through the 3 days (would use more like 130 gal).
For my shower I used a Kohler 36"x36" shower pan that has the drain in one corner since my shower is mounted right where the floor raises up a bit.  Then built the walls of 3/4" plywood with fiberglass panels over the plywood.
Toilet wise, I have a Sealand 510 toilet.  Looks good, but the bowl isn't steep enough-sometimes have to help the solids to go down.  I would stay with a simple gravity RV type toilet.  Macerators are nice, but I see alot of maintenance with 10 on board.  Good Luck, TomC
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« Reply #4 on: May 14, 2009, 08:53:01 AM »

 I think a lot of this is personal preferance. How often do you want to stop to dump, fillup water etc. Have to weighed your bus? Do you know how much room (weight) you have for these options. As far as the shower goes once again personal preferance, but I do know to stay away from any of the house hold showers with that sheeted backing you glue on the wall. It does crack in extreme weather conditions or temp. changes

Grant
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« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2009, 08:54:22 AM »

John:

To provide a reasonable estimate for your tank size, we not only need to know the number of people, but how you plan to use the bus.  Basically need to know how long from fill-up & dump, until the next fill-up & dump.  3 days? 3 weeks?   You may have already covered this in your previous threads, and I'm sorry that I don't recall.

But in general terms, a 200 gallon fresh water tank is a pretty healthy size.  Mine is close to that and even if I am boondocking for a couple of days (family of 5) I never fill it more than half full. If everyone wanted a daily shower, that might be different.

Conventional logic usually sizes the black and gray tanks to total up slightly more than the fresh water capacity.  The percentage split between the two depends on how the bus will be used.   Personally, I tend to favor making the black water tank slightly larger. Two reasons for this:  First, my gray water tank is plumbed to drain through the black water tank before exiting out the drain hose.  If I found myself running out of gray water tank and still had room in the black, I can open the valve for a few seconds and bleed gray into black (but not vice versa).    Second, gray water is easier to get rid of when remotely boondocking.  When washing dishes, you can set up two dish pans, one to wash and one for final rinse.  The sudsy wash water with it's food scraps goes into your gray tank, while the dishpan with still clean rinse water gets flung in the bushes or emptied down a storm drain.

I don't at all condone emptying your gray tank on the ground. But depending on where you are, I wouldn't have a problem with taking the water left over from cooking pasta (no food pieces) and finding a way to return it to nature.  All this adds up to saving gray tank space.  
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« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2009, 09:15:00 AM »

Thank you all so much. I have been continued to search the archives, but these answers are great!

TomC, thanks for the info. It really helps a ton. We are planning on having a regular RV toilet, and we are also considering putting a second toilet in the shower room (we are going to have the bathroom split up). The second toilet in the shower room would have a pump on it, and would only be used for emergencies (we have had the stomach flu all at once, and that includes the runs Lips Sealed, at that point I thought a backup toilet with a pump would be nice for emergencies).

Grant, no we haven't weighed the bus. Good idea though, we will do that when we pick the bus up (we are getting Jakes on it finally). Thanks for the tip about staying away from the shower wall material. We won't go with that, as we do go up to extreme weather climates (but not all the time, just occasionally).

Wec, we would like to go as long as possible. I would think that a week would be fine under "normal" circumstances, but longer would be nice. It all depends on what we are doing on a certain trip. If we are around "polite" company, then we take daily showers (at least the girls do Grin). We don't have any tanks right now, so that is why I am trying to figure out what to do. I agree with you, if it is just a camping vacation, I think that the 200 would hold us just fine. But, I am thinking that we need more....

Thank you all so much!!! Keep it coming, and I appreciate it greatly.

God bless,

John 
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« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2009, 09:29:27 AM »

We get by with 5 gallons/day per person.  "Navy shower" every day.  Water for drinking and coffee is bottled water ($0.15-0.25/gallon at water machines).  To control shower water we use a "sink sprayer" unit.  Simple and effective.  Have been doing this for 24 years.  We are 1/2 timers for the past 10 years.  Works for us.
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« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2009, 09:54:27 AM »

Since you want to go as long as possible, fill all the available space with tanks. Then your actual usage will determine the how long that is.
Extra tank capacity is easier to deal with than extra black water.

A gallon of water weighs ~8.4 lbs, so 200 gallons ~ 1680 lbs.

I'd suggest you check out sheet metal fabricators in your area & get estimates. The fresh water tank should be "food grade", the black & grey won't matter.

Plastic tanks are usually wider than tall & of such a size that baffling isn't usually required.
My preference is to build custom tanks out of 14GA stainless steel. The tanks will be vertical & baffled. I will use ball valves for the drains. The vertical tanks offer space advantages & the added fluid height aids in faster tank dumping.

If your toilet is directly over the black tank, you will greatly reduce the amount of water required to flush. That is what we have in the TT, & the 4 of us have gone 5 days & didn't fill a 30 gal black tank, the 30 gal grey required dumping after 3 days (which included 7 showers). needless to say, we are very conservative with water.
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« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2009, 10:08:43 AM »

Gary, thanks for the insightful post.

Kyle, interesting. I kinda like that idea, since that maximizes the space. With stainless steel, what do you use for tank monitors? Our main toilet will be directly over the black tank.

God bless,

John
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« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2009, 10:16:40 AM »

John, I think you are going WAY overboard for "backups", you will be dragging that "stuff" up and down hills, maintinence, lack of room elsewhere, ect, ect.  With a family of ten you ARE going to need space for other things that are more neccessary
than backup. Your present thinking IMHO is going to run you out of space.>>>Dan
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« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2009, 10:57:43 AM »

Ace,

Thanks for your post. I have been looking through the archives. I think that search feature is what is a little lacking. But I will keep trying. From what I have seen so far, my questions here still weren't answered.

Thanks.

God bless,

John

As a new member I feel your pain.  I've searched for many different subjects and the search returns 30 pages of posts but most aren't relevant or they don't answer it from my needs.  I would find it helpful if an experienced member would post a link to a thread they've found successful.  A simple example, I was looking for jacks and many results related to Jack Conrad.  He's a nice guy but I didn't contact him as I'm pretty sure he's not going to ride around with me ready to lift my bus when needed.

I didn't notice if you were planning on camping with hookups.  If you mix hookup sites into your camping trips, 200 gallons is plenty not to mention heavy.  If you are worried about your family taking too long in the shower keep your hot water tank very small.  It will only take a short time before everybody understands the need for speed.

Mike

 
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« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2009, 11:03:15 AM »

John, we have 180 gal fresh water tank 120 gal gray and 60 gals black works good for us.The Micophor is a good investment at  1000 + bucks just be sure and buy the electric flush not the air.I used a stainless tank one time for fresh water and could never get the metal taste out of the water.       good luck
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« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2009, 11:04:50 AM »

I wonder though, are we? If a water pump goes out, then everybody is out of water. Now that is somewhat okay for a couple, but a large family, that has to be somewhere that night, is a completely separate story.

On the extra toilet, that was something that I thought would be nice, if possible. I don't have to go into details to tell you guys how rough it can get with everybody having the stomach flu Shocked Shocked Shocked.

Thanks for the post, Dan. You have some good food for thought. I think that we are going to plan on pulling a trailer anyways (except for a little week vacation or something).

Mike, I agree, Jack Conrad is a nice guy, just maybe not strong enough Grin. We don't plan on using campgrounds, basically at all. We will dump, and fill up at Flying J's (or similar), and we will stay at free parking places, church parking lots, and at our host's houses.

Clifford, thank you for the post. Interesting about the SS tank....

God bless,

John

God bless,

John
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« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2009, 11:23:05 AM »

John,

I would make mockups out of plywood and make or purchase tanks that fit what space I have available. I'd let that determine how many gallons of each, fresh, grey and black would be as well as how to run the various fill/drain plumbing. My black sits on top of my grey and that really helps the gravity flow for discharge.

I had mine done professionally and it completely filled the rear cargo bay on the Eagle. They used 3 80's for fresh. (No slosh or movement with smaller tanks hooked togather). The black is 68 and when close to full puts enough pressure on the dump valve to make a new one drip when it is close to full, so if I want more I would need a better valve than the common ones used.

My grey is stainless 160 gallon and seems sufficient. I also have alot of people on often and I have showered slept and fed up to 17 people a day. Everyone showers everyday on my coach, or they walk! I could go 3 full days but needed service on the 4th day to give you an idea. I use 1 pump and just carry a new spare, they are very easy to repair, just make sure they are very accessable so you don't have to stand on your head to fix one.

I'd move the genset, but there are other ways. Just my preference. Low and heavy in that bay is good in bad weather, but it really doesn't matter what is low and heavy, I just chose the water. I would try to keep it off the steer axle though if I could.

200 gallons in the living space could go through the windshield in an accident, I have seen people do it, but I don't know how to really secure it and I personally run alot of snow and ice.

A friend and I were just out playing in California for 15 days.  I was parked on a farm so I let the grey run on the pasture. The black was about 1/2 full, and I refilled the fresh once and brought most of the refill home.

I will probably do Burning Man for a week this fall and will take a couple of 55 gallon drums extra of fresh to pump into my tanks to help the ladies in the area out. (Burning Man is all about trading). As big as your trailer is maybe some water would be OK back there when you need extra.
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« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2009, 11:52:17 AM »

A while back I accidentally discovered that the Search worked much better when I searched from my Profile page?? I have no idea why this is so and haven't checked it recently.

Using this method I got about eight times as many references as I did from the other pages.
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« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2009, 12:20:01 PM »

. . . . I used a stainless tank one time for fresh water and could never get the metal taste out of the water.       good luck

Was the ss tank treated for use as a fresh water tank?

Might be a good reason to use a plastic tank for fresh & put it on top of the black & grey.
But, we prefer to carry our drinking water in separate containers & use the water in the fresh holding tank for cleaning & flushing.




BTW, if you are concerned about failures on the road, I'd stick with the simplest sturdy devices available. Some of the newer high tech stuff might be dandy & more efficient, but the added complexity makes field repairs difficult if not impossible.

For example, my TT has a cheap toilet that works & can easily be used when there is no electricity or running water, a simple glass of water can suffice.  Wink

As for the backup generator, I'd spend more time considering my power useage (like those who live off the grid) & reduce my needs so loss of power is only an inconvenience, not a show stopper.
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« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2009, 01:08:25 PM »

If you choose to put tanks under the bed (or anywhere in the living space), you might want to use a plastic liner to protect against leaks.  I think pond liner would work well for this.
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« Reply #18 on: May 14, 2009, 01:55:02 PM »

John:

I have long been a firm believer in redundancy and back-up systems, but have to admit you are taking it a lot father than I probably would.

TOILET - I understand that an intestinal bug share by a party of 10 can make for an interesting ordeal. (How big did you say you are making the black water tank? Cheesy)  But rather than installing a second in the shower room I think I'd be inclined to take along one of the stowable self-contained jobs like people place in their pop-up trailer.  That would not take up space in the bus, and could be stowed or even used, in the trailer.

GENERATOR - A second generator seems like overkill unless you have some side need I don't know about. I'd buy a top quality diesel generator, keep a supply of spare parts on hand.  For the cost and weight of the second generator, I would think a large bank of batteries and more inverter capacity would get more use.

WATER PUMP - This is one item where I encourage the installation of the second one.  Depending where it is installed, they are easy to repair or swap out, but.....   There is no doubt that it will fail during a rainstorm, at night, while you are trying to take a shower and head to an important engagement. They can run together to double your GPM capability, but if you regularly run both together, make sure you check to see that one doesn't fail without you finding out abouit it.  perhaps some sort of A, B, A+B switch and a game plan to regularly switch them over?
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« Reply #19 on: May 14, 2009, 02:50:01 PM »

WATER PUMP - This is one item where I encourage the installation of the second one.  Depending where it is installed, they are easy to repair or swap out, but.....   There is no doubt that it will fail during a rainstorm, at night, while you are trying to take a shower and head to an important engagement. They can run together to double your GPM capability, but if you regularly run both together, make sure you check to see that one doesn't fail without you finding out about it.  perhaps some sort of A, B, A+B switch and a game plan to regularly switch them over?

We did that. We installed 2 pumps connected in parallel. We get more volume when showering. We always left both pumps on UNTIL, we lost water pressure. A quick check showed that apparently 1 pump had failed sometime prior and then the other pump failed. We have separate switches for the pumps in our panel above the refrigerator. We now run pump number 1, turn on number 2 when showering, turn off number 1 after showering. Next time we turn on number 1 before showering and turn off number 2 after showering. we just continue this sequence of alternating pumps every time we shower.  Jack
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« Reply #20 on: May 14, 2009, 02:55:20 PM »

John,

Many have their engine cooling system service the generator cooling system.  Putting a conventional thermo controlled rad fan on the engine rad takes care of the heat when the engine is shut down.  The water pump on the generator takes care of moving the coolant around.  This is NOT breaking new ground as far as ideas are concerned as many of the highline Pres and such have Incorporated this design.....I'm told.  Additionally, the Wabasto is plumbed into the engine circuit so the Wab can PreHeat the engine prior to starting.  Cold engine starts account for a disproportional amt of engine wear.  Also lets the Wabesto system be heated by engine while underway.

You absolutely NEED a propane "tankless water heater"  called an "on demand" heater.  There is no tank system that you could fit in a bus, or truck for that matter, that will sat ser 10 people on a close sched.

You will never be able to fit sufficient tanks to sat ser 10 people.  Weight, safety and space will limit you.  Actually, I think you need TWO buses.  However!  Comma!  Do not opt for a single 200 gal tank.  Use 3 or 4 and sandwiched them in there so they take full advantage of whatever space you utilize.  Put the last 50 gal on a separate valve.  Actually you should be able to isolate each tank to allow repair and min the impact of any leak that develops.  This would also let you remove a tank to get back some storage if your needs subside.  Also would min replacement costs.

Install a "drinking only" tank with a capacity of 30 gal.  Then you can pump water into your tank from a clean stream or sistern to sustain your travels.  Keep a bottle of Clorox on board to prevent the "sorta clean" water from growing on ya.

The toilet gets mounted "OVER" the black tank and the drop can have no more than a 45 degree slope.  I rather know that that is a bunch of crap and that you can sustain a much larger angle.  NOW, if your shower is located next to the toilet, then they could both drop down their own separate 3 inch pipes.  OR, they could "Y" together for a single pipe.  In the 70's there was a major RV brand that had co located all their toilets, shower and sinks in the same space that had water proof walls and a undersink cabnet.  Worked very well and was exceptionally space efficient.  It was explained to me that toilets are WATERPROOF. Huh Roll Eyes Grin  PLANNING!

Install both of your water pumps in parallel and keep each powered.  If one fails the check valve will allow you to have full pressure till you can change out the defective pump.  These systems are designed to service the needs of a "NORMAL" RV demands system.  You ain't normal, Buddy.  You are going to be confronted with a person taking a shower and somebody flushing a toilet and another drawing water from the kit sink.  You can design this all you want but if there is a possibility of cheating the cold water and dumping a surge of HOT on a shower'er....that will happen eventually.  If it cheats the hot, then the soul in the shower will get a chill and this will become a common engineered prank.  Not 10 adults, right?  Having two pumps on line will prevent that.   Also, that cute little 3/8 inch line will not work for you. You will need 1/2 at least to handle the potential flow.  The pumps have 1/2 inch connections.  Use the pump that has connections that are "O" ring sealed and are secured with a clip. Cool

Keep a separate  Black and Grey system.  With a 50 foot length of hose you can dump your Grey almost anywhere.  In Ca. it is used for lawn and garden water and that meets code...or must.  Add NO deodorants or treatments to that water or the black either.  If you incorporate a "macerator" pump you will be able to dump your black water into any sewer within 50 feet and also pump black or grey "uphill".

Black capacity is 1/4 of the fresh capacity.  Grey is 100 percent of fresh.  Seems to be a rule of thumb that is adjusted to needs/reality.  Being able and willing to dump your grey in the bushes will stretch your stay.  Even at my house.  Did you know that soap is considered a garden water plus as it augments the soils ability to absorb water quicker and deeper? Huh   So I am told. Tongue


If you mount a black or grey tank OVER a fresh tank, you can heat the fresh water to avoid freezing and also heat the waste tank by conduction.  You are going into to cold country eventually. right?  n'other subject.

Things to think about,

John
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« Reply #21 on: May 14, 2009, 03:32:50 PM »

Wow guys. This is great.

NJT5733, Thanks. First off, I wasn't really clear. We are going to put this stuff in our rearmost bay. I also forgot to mention that we have to install our Oasis (instant hot water system) somewhere too. Thanks for the idea on building plywood mock ups first. That could save a lot of grief Grin.

Gus, thanks for the tip.

Kyle, good point on keeping things simple. My motto KISS  Grin Grin Grin.

Len, I agree we do need something to make sure that the water doesn't leak everywhere if the tank fails.

Wec4104, thanks for the idea on the toilet, we will look into it. On the generator, we have a 20kw EPS screamer (hence why we need to build a quiet box Grin). Also we have a bank of four 8d batteries, and have 8k of inverting power. We will also be adding another bank of batteries soon (we will be stacking them on top of our current batteries so it won't take any extra room).

Jack, thanks for the tip.

JohnEd, thank you so much for the post. Man, I love all of the info. Interesting about the cooling system. We are going to be getting a hot water on demand system (Oasis). It also preheats the engine, and harness the heat from the engine, while the engine is running. I like the multiple small tanks. We might even put a smaller tank under the bed. Interesting thought on the pumps, and water sizes. Also we had thought about putting a macerator on the dump. If we did though, we would want to be able to "gravity" dump to. That way the macerator would be an "option".

Thanks a lot!!!!

God bless,

John

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« Reply #22 on: May 14, 2009, 08:24:24 PM »

If engine cooling is marginal, you won't be able to run the genset while under way IF the genset shares the radiator with the main engine. . . .  Sad

A co worker builds 500 gal tanks for his father-in-law's buses (he is on his second conversion). Weight isn't a problem when full, but he doesn't make a habit out of keeping them full either, just good to have when needed.   Cool

If you have 10 people in your bus, you'd better also have 2 toilets. Otherwise, get used to lots of dirty underwear.  Shocked
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« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2009, 08:39:33 PM »

How often do you want to stop to dump,

"STOP" to dump . . ?
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NewbeeMC9
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« Reply #24 on: May 14, 2009, 09:28:40 PM »



If you use RV type toilet with ball valve and put directly them over the black tank  (recommend)

I recommend putting them on a pedestal inside the bus so you can make the tank taller in the bay.  you don't need as much head room sitting down and boys need it closer to splash less when standing up.  Make sure smaller ones can stand on the pedestal if needed.  But anyhoo maximize your bay space by getting the tanks as close to the bottom as of the floor as possible.
don't forget about venting the tanks to the roof and space for the plumbing in the bay to do that and the dump plumbing.


now another thought,  has any body ever tried to use a water bed for fresh water?  it could be filled up with air as water is used or a matteress on to of it that pads you if it is empty.

I know they make soft tanks for the back of trucks

If you have RV type couch that that makes bed, there is a lot of wasted space under/behind that could be utilized with a tank.


don't forget to keep the engine hatches not only accessible but usable. Smiley


good luck and keep us posted with your unique situation and how you work it out Smiley



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« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2009, 05:15:35 AM »


now another thought,  has any body ever tried to use a water bed for fresh water?  it could be filled up with air as water is used or a matteress on to of it that pads you if it is empty.


Many years ago, I owned a waterbed (and had excellent night's sleep on it).  The filling procedure required that you remove all the air from it.  If you did not remove the air bubbles, the bed would make a noticeable sloshing noise everytime you rolled over.  ... very annoying.      In fact, you had to go back and re-burp the mattress several days after the inital fill, once the air dissolved in the water during the fill had collected into new bubble pockets.  So unless technology of these beds has changed, you would not want to add air to compensate for a partially drained mattress.

It would also be important to check whether the plastics used in the mattress are suitable for potable water, and/or whether they might impart a residual taste. 
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« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2009, 05:20:42 AM »

So, just use the noisy mattress for the kids . . .  Grin
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« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2009, 05:53:14 AM »

Here is a side thought on the waterbed concept, however.  Let's say a 200 gallon waterbed, was built from potable water materials, and placed in the bedroom.  Down in the bays, there was also a 250 gallon (or more) fresh water tank.   Before heading out on a trip, both were filled.   

After several days of using the water in the tank and sleeping on the water bed, your water in the tank is nearly empty.   Using a built in connection between the two, the bed is completely drained into the fresh water tank (gravity). 

With the waterbed mattress empty, one of the new high quality inflatable air mattresses is place over top.  The air mattress, which took up minimal storage space until needed, is then used for the remainder of the trip. 

Just playing with ideas here, with thoughts to maximize water capacity.  Of course the REAL challenge to all of this is "How do you secure the weight of waterbed so that it would be safe, even in an accident?" 
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« Reply #28 on: May 15, 2009, 10:24:40 AM »

You have no realistic way to "contain and restrain" a full water bed.  In a tight corner or under braking it would "leave" the confines of a typical bed frame.  I think that this is an inordinately poor idea although I can see where it might spark consideration.....at first blush.  In a water bed the height of the bed would raise the center of gravity of the bus and as a rule of thumb you want to keep that low.  From the smell of my water when I drained my bed you would not want to shower with the stuff till you were at least a week ripe.  Just from the management angle this idea sours for me.

I know I have seen a lot of S&S with a HUGE tank under the bed.  100 gal or more.  Now what did we say that would weigh?  There is no realistic way to restrain that much weight to prevent it becoming a weighty missle.  You might survive a sudden stop into the ditch/bank of a medium strip but the bed going out the front would certainly kill everyone.  As well, mount your tanks against a front bulkhead of the compartment for the same reasons...travel.  Ever see how stout the enclosure for the refer is?  It weighs a hundred pounds or so and can't be fully anchored to the floor alone unless you lay it on its side, soooo.

BG6.....Thanks for that.  I think I peed a little.

John

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« Reply #29 on: May 15, 2009, 10:43:40 AM »

One solution to prevent a water tank from becoming a missile during a collision is to construct it such that the container fails before it moves so the mass of water has nothing to contain it.

Amazing, we have some who worry about a tank of water in the rear of the bus that ain't likely to make it very far - too many things to get past . . .  when others have bar stools & glass topped tables just sitting on the floor right behind the driver . . . .


But I gotta ask, if the wreck was bad enough to worry about the water bed coming loose & making it all the way to the front of the bus, do you think there was enough left for an open casket before the water bed hit?



Another thing, the bed is over the engine so it is gonna get warm, do you really want all that thermal mass right under you when you're trying to cool the bus down for sleeping?


BTW, a 500 gal tank = 7' long x 4' tall x 2.4' wide
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« Reply #30 on: May 15, 2009, 01:21:02 PM »

Thanks for all of the comments and ideas!

Kyle, we weren't planning on tying the two cooling systems together. I was just intrigued by the idea. We do plan on trying to get two toilets in there, but we will see how it works. Also, thanks for the size of the big tank. I don't think that we will do one huge tank, up on top (we don't want that tank to cause the use of a casket, so it will be secure...). That tank will just be for extra, if we need it (the main tank would be below). Yes that engine does get warm. You have a good point...

Newbee, thanks for the ideas. We will be using a RV type of toilet. That is an interesting concept about the water bed. I think that it will be vetoed pretty quickly though Grin Grin Grin.

WEC, I think that is what we will plan on doing, is putting our main tank down in the bay. In addition to that, we are talking about putting another tank up on top, under that bed. It would just be a small tank or maybe two. That way we can fit them in the space that we need, around the engine compartments. Then securing it won't be AS huge a deal, because we have a (or two) smaller tanks.

JohnEd, thanks for the thoughts. We sure have a lot to work through. Grin Grin Grin

This is great guys. Thank you so much. This is really going to help our conversion.

God bless,

John

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