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Author Topic: Unbelieveable Tour Bus Driver!  (Read 4065 times)
usbusin
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« on: May 19, 2009, 12:50:07 PM »

I sure hope this is not typical conduct for tour bus drivers.  Wow!  A potential for a disaster.  Why didn't the passenger taking the video tell the driver to cease?

http://www.breitbart.tv/html/341993.html
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Gary D

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« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2009, 04:46:07 PM »

I agree, very bad form.  The unbelievable part for me was how well the bus handled. 
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« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2009, 04:52:39 PM »

Yeah.. The guy with the camera saw what he wanted to see too!

Another case of "lets make a mountain out of a mole hill!"

Yes I agree that some attention span work is needed by that driver
especially looking to see what the passengers are doing behind him, And
all of us have been guilty of fiddling with stuff while going down the road,
Even people who don't drive a bus....

That must have been a really good driving bus too!.. No steering wander
or drift to keep the driver busy....

I know I will get flamed over this.... Buuuutttt......

There is a reason there are 3-mirrors.. Left, Right and Inside.... All get scanned..
You never know what idiot is behind you taking pictures or what made that noise
that started when you swerved...( Bottles falling out of cabinets!!!)...

Ho Ho .. Ha ha....
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« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2009, 05:15:13 PM »

I would be curious to find out how long he was driving for..

He looked very able, coming up to the semi and having very little steering input while thumbing thru his paperwork.

It looked like he would use his left leg as some input??

He probably wishes he could hit the "Redo" button.
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Airbag
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« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2009, 05:30:10 PM »

This is my favorite

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« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2009, 06:08:25 PM »

I gotta say that my first reaction was, "Wow, I wish my bus drove like that."  Then reading the responses seemed to show that everyone was thinking the same thing. 
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« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2009, 06:59:22 PM »

Well, my thoughts were, if the guy with the camera didn't like the way the driver wasn't paying attention, why didn't he say something to the driver rather than calling the company and the Port Authority? He was sitting right there.


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« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2009, 08:02:02 PM »

The driver had it under control. Its no worse than signaling for a turn while your screaming on the PA telling the little bastards to sit down and braking and actuating the warning lamps all at the same time, just what a school bus driver does everyday.

You would cringe if you could see what goes on in the cockpit of an airliner, you just can't see it. Wheels up feet up I'll have the chicken. Grin
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« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2009, 02:49:35 AM »

Aw geeze, the fellow making the video and complaining is just mad he can't hold the camera as steady as ole Sam T does the bus! Besides if you'll notice Sam's hands really are on the wheel most of the time! He's just resting the backside of his hand on the wheel to steady it! Now as far as all the things he's doing? Well looks like he's just bored, ya know slow day at the office no accidents, no traffic jams, no BS. Might as well catch up on paper work right? Shoot the guy complaining needs to get a LIFE! Man Sam is doing a fine job, handling that bus! But I too am surprised that an MCI stayed that steady. I would have expected it from a SETRA, but not an MCI!  LOL! Grin  BK  Grin
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
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« Reply #9 on: May 20, 2009, 05:06:40 AM »

I could have sworn he was driving an iggle by the way it tracks lol.
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« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2009, 06:35:57 AM »

I could have sworn that was My bus.  Don't all bus or coaches handle that way?  LOL John
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« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2009, 06:56:30 AM »

We used to shuttle skiers up and down to Sunshine Village Ski Area near Banff before the gondola was built in '78. On the way up, we'd have a coffee in one hand and the radio mike in the other. Dead heading down, add to that a coffee, a cigarette, an egg sandwich, while shifting gears and reading the paper!

In the summer time, we always gave the verbal commentary with the goose neck microphone while driving.

Nowadays, it is different: I won't even answer my cell phone while driving the hockey team's bus...

JC
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kyle4501
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« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2009, 09:46:35 AM »

First time I watched it, I didn't see what the fuss was all about, so I watched it again to make sure of what I saw.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I didn't see anything that merited an expose or crucifixion.

It should be obvious to anyone that the narrator was very biased against the driver.
Claimed heavy rain, but the W/S wiper was in intermittent.
Claimed a swerve but only showed minor wheel movement.
Claimed close traffic at 65mph, well DUH! what do you expect on the interstate? Any farther away & someone would have been out of their lane.
Never mentioned the frequent mirror checks the driver made, seems to me the driver was very aware of his surroundings.
Didn't mention driver was keeping up with traffic & in the correct lane - the middle lane, passing some in the right lane & getting passed on the left. He wasn't speeding or blocking traffic.


The reality is that someone either has an axe to grind or is suffering from a chicken little complex. While the bus driver had some distractions, he didn't cause any problems and was smooth in his handling of the coach.


I'd be very interested in knowing the details behind the narrator & what qualified them to create this biased & inflammatory expose.

There are much worse dangers out there than this driver. Things like a little Napoleon running around with a video camera to make movies demonstrating the inherent malicious intent of others.

To those that think this driver is a manace to society, may I suggest you retire to a bunker & stay there.

To me, the unbelievable part is that few question the motives behind the film producer.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2009, 09:48:07 AM by kyle4501 » Logged

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« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2009, 09:49:08 AM »

I have made it an unbreakable rule that one can drive and eat at the same time or drive and do paper work at the same time, but you can not drive, eat, and do paperwork at the same time.
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« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2009, 10:12:17 AM »

wonder how many truck drivers are doing their log book while going down the road?
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« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2009, 10:12:22 AM »

I see no wrong doing here,mirror scan was in order ,maintained his lane properly .The wiggle while passing the semi (buffeting)seemed ,nothing out of the norm.As a professional driver you have to multi task ,it's what you get paid for.
As for the camera man ,a simple poke in the eyes should suffice ,other wise he would have filmed a birds eye view of me leaving his butt on the side of the road,hee,hee Cheesy

Passengers are requested to refrain from screaming,or else!  
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« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2009, 10:31:59 AM »

Quote from: busshawg
wonder how many truck drivers are doing their log book while going down the road?

I have to admit I'm guilty! I've done it before!

Kyle I agree totally with you on this! (wait did I just type that? LOL! jes kid'n)
Seriously I do!
And farther more I'm gonna tell ya if Sam T was to call me tomorrow looking for a job because for losing his job over that stupid video, I'd hire him on the spot! This man is a professional and the way he handles the bus and scans the road, mirrors, and surroundings proves it!  So if any of see Sam in the unemployment line (not likely since GOOD bus drivers are hard to come by!), tell him to call me!   Grin  BK  Grin
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Busted Knuckle aka Bryce Gaston
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« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2009, 12:45:02 PM »

Sorry for posting this video.  Guess I just didn't know what was acceptable for tour bus drivers, or any professional drivers for that matter.  My bad.

As a former USMC Motor Transport Officer (1960's) I would not have allowed my drivers this kind of behavior behind the wheel.  I guess I'm just "old fashioned" and not up to modern standards.


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Gary D

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« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2009, 04:02:41 PM »

Sorry for posting this video.  Guess I just didn't know what was acceptable for tour bus drivers, or any professional drivers for that matter.  My bad.

As a former USMC Motor Transport Officer (1960's) I would not have allowed my drivers this kind of behavior behind the wheel.  I guess I'm just "old fashioned" and not up to modern standards.

No Gary I'm glad you did post it! And not that it is actually normal for someone to video the driver doing these things. I will say yes there are things like this that do happen.
Now my point is not that he's doing these things, but look how great he handle the bus while doing them!
I can bet you this is the second half of his shift and he's been behind the wheel for 5, 6, 7, or so hours and is getting restless! It's better for him to do these little things to keep alert rather than to drift into a bored stupor and crash!
This man may be doing stuff that "Johnny on the spot all over the place couldn't even hold his camera steady for 30 seconds" doesn't approve of, but my point is he does it with professionalism!
HE'S NOT ALL OVER THE ROAD. HE'S NOT NODDING OFF. HE'S NOT TURNING AROUND AND TALKING TO SOMEONE.
He's merely doing something to keep from becoming a robot behind the wheel, doing a great job of it! I'll bet anyone anything that given differrent traffic/weather conditions he'd be 100% in control and not "multi-tasking" FWIW !   Grin  BK  Grin
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« Reply #19 on: May 21, 2009, 06:46:17 AM »

I'm glad you posted the link, it brought up some good discussion. Having a high standard of excellence for driver performance is a good thing.

Shouldn't the same standard apply to reporting?

In my post, I didn't mean to endorse all of the driver's actions. I was trying to point out that the accusations didn't match the actions.

Should people multitask while driving? I'd rather them not, especially when around others. However, to claim a driver is derelict in his duties & a menace to society because of multitasking even tho the vehicle didn't run anyone off the road or such. . . . .

In this case, I think the driver earned a reprimand at worst, NOT a suspension.

I guess I want to see balanced reporting that matches the facts. I see enough that is sensationalized & misleading.
I've seen too many unjustified persecutions/ prosecutions.


In this case, I believe the reporter demonstrated a high degree of irresponsibility & I couldn't resist the urge to point that out.
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« Reply #20 on: May 21, 2009, 02:07:31 PM »

Yeah guys, well, all I can wonder is what would have happened had 'ol sam had a blowout as he was sitting there hands-off the wheel.

Much as you guys think he was doing ok, and much as I'm usually more of a radical in my views regarding buses, I disagree with you and I TOTALLY
agree with the camera man.  Had this guy been driving me and my family like that, I'd be off that bus faster than you can imagine.

Every person is different I'll agree.  Personally I find it quite enough just paying attention to all of the myriad things that need be paid attention to when driving my bus.
Being lulled into false security is SOOOO easy to do.  Truth is, every single moment that you're piloting a 25,000+ pound vehicle especially when it's full of human lives, you gotta be paying FULL attention to what you're doing.  If you're bored or find the need to gab on the phone or do your paperwork, perhaps you ought be doing a different type of work....
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1962 Crown
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« Reply #21 on: May 21, 2009, 03:13:57 PM »

Just curious: What WOULD have happened had he had a blow out with his hands off the wheel like that? Another accident where the bus swerved left off the road as had previously been reported on the boards a couple weeks ago? Actually, there were two, not far apart. Here is the one that nobody got killed: http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=11774.0

Please tell me how quickly and calmly you are going to react without any control of the bus? I may like you, but if you are going to treat me that way, as a guest in you CAR, I'm not riding with you. Period. I'll kill myself on my time, you can kill you on yours. An occasional sip of coffee? Sure. That's reasonable. But even then, I get concerned doing that driving over Appalachia(I-70) with traffic around me. And I only weigh 3500 lbs, not 35,000 lbs.
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« Reply #22 on: May 21, 2009, 05:39:34 PM »

This video is of poor quality, the driver's wrists are in contact with the wheel pretty much the entire time, as best as I can tell. The camera man has taken advantage of his poor video that makes it look like the driver's wrists are above the wheel. Watch, you won't see his hands/wrists any deeper when he is clearly holding the wheel.

Some drivers have no problem controlling the coach via a weighted hand,wrist,forearm on the top of the wheel, others prefer to wrap their fingers to some degree. Some drape something over the wheel spokes, others work the rim. Some above, some on the sides, some from below.

Or as the miles, days, months and years go by, you learn to do a little of everything, so as to not bruise, fatigue or cramp your muscles. As far as seasoned highwaymen go, he shows a lot more wheel contact than many safe driving award winners that I have observed.

As for tire blow out, it's the wrong reaction of the driver in the next few seconds that makes for excitement, not the degree of wheel clenching as the event starts. A tire blow out starts off with the noise that panics the driver, but the initial effect is similar to an unexpected strong gust of wind. We've all had a "half wheel correction gust" catch us? Nobody likes to have the crap scared out of them, its never happened before, they didn't recover as neatly as possible, drivers don't recover from a fright and self report very accurately at the same time, so the first hand reporting is all over the map. Watch the Michelin videos, and watch the drivers and the steering wheels.

If you ever get the chance, go get a tire blowed out, it isn't the end of the world!

http://www.michelintruck.com/michelintruck/toolbox/videos-demos.jsp#TheCriticalFactorCD

As for our original video, that is a fine tracking coach, and the professional driver is completely at ease making his way down the highway, more than likely sorting and separating his tickets with what amounts to an open road ahead of him.

I would have no issue riding with him, hiring him, or letting him borrow my personal coach.

What is "right"?

If none of us had been on the receiving end of "drivers education", would we have any problem with what we saw? I'd wager not.

happy coaching!
buswarrior


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« Reply #23 on: May 21, 2009, 06:01:55 PM »

I kind of doubt this was the drivers first rodeo either. I imagine that he probably does this on a daily basis as he's driving. He's probably been doing it for years and years on the same road and same traffic conditions. I'm a little bit to busy with my ole MCI but after sitting for several hours I still tend to find things to keep me occupied. At least he didn't get up and go pour himself a cup of coffee!!!! (I know..... old joke!)   Later
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« Reply #24 on: May 21, 2009, 06:11:22 PM »

My point is not whether his hands were on the wheel... my point is that he was directing his total attention to something else- dialing the phone, reading and tearing up papers, etc.  In an emergency...which can and usually does happen ***FAST*** its not so much where your hands are as it is where your brain is.

REACTION TIME

That alone.

If you're thinking about something other than paying attention to your rig and the road, it takes many hundreds of milliseconds to change that focus.  Those milliseconds are short but they are also the difference between life and death.  Busses travelling at 55 mph travel 80 feet in one second.  That's 8 feet in 100 milliseconds.   It would take old Sam WAY more than 100 milliseconds to drop his phone or look up from his paper and take control of his bus if something happened.  Transitioning from life to death can take a lot less time than that...
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1962 Crown
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« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2009, 07:12:40 PM »

You're right cat. But I really doubt any of us can claim to 100 percent attention to the road as we drive. There are always distractions. I find it more appalling that someone would find the time to sit and film this and post it and act all offended when all they had to do was ask the driver to pay attention to his job. If they really wanted to help they should have offered to help him with his tickets!!!!! Nope.... Instead they secretly filmed the driver over a ten minute period and turned him in. How much of this was edited? For all we know this could have been 4 hours of sitting and waiting to catch the guy. My thoughts are the person playing "Big Brother" is the one I would be wary of. Just my opinion. Later
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« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2009, 07:29:36 PM »

Yeah guys, well, all I can wonder is what would have happened had 'ol sam had a blowout as he was sitting there hands-off the wheel.

Fate is the hunter.

The ten / two o'clock death grip is not necessary. This is what they taught when I was in bus driving school but in reality nobody does it not even the instructors. Another no no was palming the wheel in turns, they want the herky jerky hand shuffle that will not achieve the turn rate needed in most cases. And God forbid a suicide knob was cause for a hanging. My thought is whatever gets the job done and is comfortable for a driver.

What about all the drivers who want a smaller diameter steering wheel assuming their power steering will never fail?

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« Reply #27 on: May 21, 2009, 08:37:05 PM »

Many drivers wash out of training to drive at mouse world because of the number of regular
multitasking things that their drivers have to live with. I understand that school bus drivers can have things pretty bad at times and attention span problems can be serious.

Until you have filled an RTS to the limit including standing room only to the white line and had to deal with a bunch of exhausted and cranky people in a hurry to get back to their cars/hotels especially at closing time at Epcot or the Studios with bumper to bumper traffic... You have not lived yet!

Watch the traffic surrounding you. watch the people standing beside you, try not to knock them down, go too fast, too slow, too much brakes. 60+ people all yapping behind you, kids screaming and you are scanning all mirrors, having to talk on the pa system to calm down and get their attention.

And do it all day after day....

That's Driving !!! Been there done that and it was a BLAST!

Dave....
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« Reply #28 on: May 21, 2009, 08:40:23 PM »

I've had the pleasure of having the right front tire blow out twice. Both times on the innerstate at 60+ mph.
Once in a E150 ford van & last year in a 3/4 ton suburban pulling a 32' camper.

Both times, the tires looked fine with no weather checks & air pressures were good, but they were 6+ years old.
Both times, I didn't leave my lane until I wanted to.
Both times, I was steering with 2 fingers touching the wheel when the tire decided to meet Elvis.
Both times, I had been driving for 4+ hours, so I wasn't exactly a fresh & focused driver.

I'm wondering what all the fuss is about blowouts? Maybe I was lucky? Maybe I've got good instincts & don't create a problem by jerking the wheel?



On a similar note, a minivan started to change lanes into me as I was right beside them in heavy traffic on I-95 at 70 mph. When the driver saw me, they jerked the steering wheel so hard they went on 2 wheels. I don't know if they were one of the several that hit the grass that day behind us.

Some people can drive, others merely hang on for dear life.
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« Reply #29 on: May 21, 2009, 08:42:25 PM »

Thanks Kyle,

Excellent report!

Who else can offer some calm words on this topic?

happy coaching!
buswarrior
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« Reply #30 on: May 22, 2009, 11:00:30 PM »

I've had the pleasure of having the right front tire blow out twice. Both times on the innerstate at 60+ mph.
Once in a E150 ford van & last year in a 3/4 ton suburban pulling a 32' camper.

Both times, the tires looked fine with no weather checks & air pressures were good, but they were 6+ years old.
Both times, I didn't leave my lane until I wanted to.
Both times, I was steering with 2 fingers touching the wheel when the tire decided to meet Elvis.
Both times, I had been driving for 4+ hours, so I wasn't exactly a fresh & focused driver.

I'm wondering what all the fuss is about blowouts? Maybe I was lucky? Maybe I've got good instincts & don't create a problem by jerking the wheel?

Had a right rear blow out at 70 mph while in a long right hand curve.  I was driving a sedan fully loaded (the car that is) and when it happened, and immediately it felt like the steering linkage had broken.  car sat way back and I may have been only steering with one  wheel tons of input was required to keep it in line, fishtailed hard left then right ...I was just calming it down when the tire came off the rim and the car did a 360, finally had slowed enough to maintain control, pullled over, had a pee and changed the tire.
 I talked to my uncle about this (he was an engineer who used to do accident analysis on the autobahn) he told me that in his experience rear blowouts in curves were way worse than front blowouts, he said in a straight line rear blowouts were less destabilizing.
Since being on this board I have noticed the posting about accident from front blowouts, makes sense as a rear blow out is mitigated by the dually, wait tell you all start driving those maxi rears.......
more grist for the mill.



On a similar note, a minivan started to change lanes into me as I was right beside them in heavy traffic on I-95 at 70 mph. When the driver saw me, they jerked the steering wheel so hard they went on 2 wheels. I don't know if they were one of the several that hit the grass that day behind us.

Some people can drive, others merely hang on for dear life.
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« Reply #31 on: May 23, 2009, 08:27:09 AM »

Personally, I don't see what all the fuss is over. The guy taking the video is an idiot that could wreak (or save) a lot of lives. He could have said to the driver, excuse me, could you please do the paperwork after we stop and pay attention to the road. End of story. If I were Sam T's employer and saw this video I'd terminate him immediately! cause if he ever got in a accident it would be big ammo for a law suit cause it proves he does not pay attention. If future employers ever saw the video (slim chance) he'd never get hired. Once this stuff is on the internet it's there forever! Why can't people just speak up?
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« Reply #32 on: May 23, 2009, 08:28:18 AM »

I know every incident has different circumstances . . . .


I've had rear blowouts with & without a trailer. Had 3 rear wheel nuts back off once & the 2 studs snapped off & let the tire roll around in the wheel well before it worked it's way out & passed me.

With all of those instances, minimal steering input was used to keep things straight.

With the trailer, all that happened was a LOT of noise & the rear corner of the suburban dropped some, but otherwise it was a non incident.

The worst was when the wheel was rolling around in the wheel well, there was lots of wiggle from that  Grin, but still minimal steering input.



We had a car that the rear axle was out of alignment (rear tracked 2" off the front). With that car, if you ever locked up the brakes, you were going for a wild ride as a spectator only. Shocked


I'm thinking it may be the initial over correction that causes so much steering input. Could be a misalignment issue too . . .

When the crap hits the fan, I usually try to decide which way & how far to go before I start moving.

Maybe it's because I have lots of practice driving back off the shoulder of the road . . . .  Roll Eyes
Maybe It's because I paid attention in all those vehicle dynamics classes. . . .

OR, maybe I'm just lucky . . . .
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I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. (R.M. Nixon)
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