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Author Topic: How do split one wire to several?  (Read 9469 times)
belfert
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« on: May 23, 2009, 07:12:03 PM »

To wire up my new LED lights I will need to split one wire into several.  Any suggestions how I do this?

I am probably going to build a new wiring harness for the rear lights back from a large connector Dina has provided in the rear.  The existing wiring doesn't go to the right spots.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2009, 07:25:54 PM »

Belfert , be careful some of those Mexican and South American built buses use 1 wire for different lite functions not saying yours does but I have run into the problem before on a Brazil built bus and on my Jeep also, sorry I forgot the name of the system    good luck
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belfert
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« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2009, 07:44:43 PM »

Based on the wiring diagrams and what I can see all of the lights are on seperate wires.  You might be thinking of the newer buses with multiplex wiring.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2009, 05:32:39 AM »

Brian,

There are several ways to split wires but I use a terminal board if at all possible. They consist of a strip of plastic or other non-conducting material with several terminals on them. You can pick one up at your local electrical supply house. Mount the terminal strip. Connect the feed wire to one terminal & use short jumpers to connect the feed terminal to however many other terminals you need. Some terminal strips come with jumpers already in place or you can buy a bag of them separately.  Feed your additional wires off the new terminals.

HTH,

TOM
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belfert
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« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2009, 05:47:21 AM »

Any other suggestions?  I know the OEM did splices, but without disassembling the existing harness I have no idea what they did.

I'm not sure terminal strips are the best idea unless I place them inside a weather tight enclosure.  They will be exposed to at least some moisture being in the engine compartment.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2009, 06:06:02 AM »

You can use butt connectors. Choose one that it one size larger than your wire size. Then you run a single wire along the lights, and where ever you want to splice in a light connection, cut the main line, insert a butt connector on one end, and on the other end, put the cut off main wire and the light pigtail, so you have one wire in one end, and two wires in the other end.

They also make a 3-wire splice that snaps over the main wire without cutting it. The main wire goes through the splice, and the pigtail goes in a third hole. When you snap to flap closed and crimp it tight, it forces a spade inside the connector through the insulation of the main wire, and makes a connection to the wire inside. I don't personally like these connectors, but
there are places where they work well.

Take a look at a Waytek catalog or their website. They have all the wiring stuff you'll ever need.  Look on page 25. They actually have some butt connectors designed specifically to do what you want to do.

craig

« Last Edit: May 24, 2009, 06:24:55 AM by gumpy » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2009, 06:11:14 AM »

   Don't know about a Dina, but our MC-8 has a terminal stip on the frame beside the engine that all "engine wires" are attached to. It is in the open and so far, I have seen no problems with connection/corrosion issues. I prefer terminal strips to the snap connectors. I can always lossen, clean, and retighten a terminal. I have had connection/corrosion problems in the past on boat & horse trailers when using the snap connectors (but that was many years ago, and they may have improved). 
   WayTek is definitely the source for all your wiring needs for this project www.waytekwire.com  YMMV  Jack
« Last Edit: May 24, 2009, 06:12:50 AM by JackConrad » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2009, 06:31:07 AM »

Try to find the crimp connectors with jelly in them.  Also, look at the quality of the connector.
I use the butt splices to make a three way connection by putting two wires in one end and one in the other.  Support the connection by using good electrical tape.

Art
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« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2009, 06:37:29 AM »

Will the addition of more wires to a circuit affect the current, or is the drain not that much.
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belfert
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« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2009, 06:56:02 AM »

I didn't realize they make butt connectors specifically for multiple wires.  Those look like the way to go even though they are a little pricey.  Scotch lok type connectors would be a bad choice no matter waht.

I don't know why splices should matter for carrying capacity, but I am switching from regular lights to LED so the load should be much less.  Right now I know the brake lights take a 10 amp fuse as there are four regular brake light bulbs and four or five smaller bulbs in the third brake light.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2009, 07:00:25 AM »

35mm film can or other small self latching container.
ring terminals, 10-32
10-32 bolt and nylon lock nut
drill holes in ends, barely large enough to squeeze wires in
insert, crimp, bolt together
snap lid to body
move on to next thing
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TomC
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« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2009, 08:57:44 AM »

This is very simple-when wiring in more or replacement LED's since they take just about no power, just run a wire for the lights, and at each place you want a new light, use a squeeze type wire stripper and expose some wire-wrap the new wire around it-solder it to the new wire-wrap in electrical tape-and use a small nylon tie strap to hold the end of the tape shut from opening up.  Current considerations with LEDs are just not a factor.  A simple 10 amp circuit will run dozens of LED's.  Simple-has worked for me for years.  Mechanical splices are not advised since they can and do corrode to make an incomplete circuit.  Good Luck, TomC
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« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2009, 09:35:12 AM »

Belfert, I use solder like TomC then heat shrink makes for a water tight connection    good luck
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« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2009, 09:59:11 AM »

They also make 3-way bullet/butt connectors, (see photo).   However, I think I would also lean toward the solder and heat shrink tubing approach.   With the heat shrink tubing coming in the various sizes, I might even be inclined to put a second (larger diameter) piece of heat shrink tubing over the first, for added weather protection.
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paul102a3
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« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2009, 05:35:44 PM »

While I am brand new to busing, I have an extensive background in the marine industry. ABYC (American Boat and Yacht Council) is the agency that, among many things, sets out wiring codes for boats.

ABYC specifically prohibits soldered joints for any type of wiring in the marine industry and recommends mechanical crimped connections. The reason is the failure of the joint due to individual strands of wire flexing where they meet the hard solder. Think bending a beer can back and forth until it breaks.

A proper mechanical crimp allows the joint to flex without damage as most of the strain relief is provided by the plastic collar surrounding the copper.

To make a proper mechanical crimp requires a high quality ratcheting tool that not only crimps the copper to the wire but also provides a slight crimp to the plastic sleeve.

Heat shrink, or liquid electrical tape, will keep the moisture out and provide weather protection.

More than one boat fire related insurance claim has been denied because the owner/mechanic soldered a wire to wire joint rather than using crimped connectors.

If you ever look factory wiring harnesses for gensets, inverters, etc, all the connections are made by crimping. The entire factory wiring harness of my 102a3 uses crimped connections.

Both crimped and soldered connections will fail with time and vibration. The key here is crimped connections are less prone to fail in applications subjected to vibrations.

Hope this helps.



 
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Dallas
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« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2009, 06:40:04 PM »

Thank you very much Paul. Now I have a reason to go to crimped only fittings.
I have spent my life as a mechanic using crimp and solder connections and have been told by many on this board that the solder connection is not good. No one could ever give me a reason why, just that it wasn't good.
Now I have the real reason to not do it... but... what do I do with the ones I already have with my 4/0 battery cables that have been there for about 56 years? should I replace them or just wait until they fail?
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belfert
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« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2009, 06:54:45 PM »

How often do insurance companies really deny fire claims?  If I hired a pro and he soldered a joint that later burns up my bus, is the insurance company really going to deny my claim?

Folks do stupid things that burn down homes on a pretty regular basis and we don't hear about the claims being denied.  Things like charcoal grills on wooden decks, grease fires, gas grills next to vinyl siding, and hot pans on wooden items amongst other stupid things.

Not saying I would solder joints in a bus.  I have pretty much used crimped joints for everything.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2009, 09:26:38 PM »

[quote author=belfert link=topic=12055.msg126446#msg126446 date=1243216485

Folks do stupid things that burn down homes on a pretty regular basis and we don't hear about the claims being denied.  Things like charcoal grills on wooden decks, grease fires, gas grills next to vinyl siding, and hot pans on wooden items amongst other stupid things.
[/quote]

You forgot deep frying a turkey.....preferably frozen. Grin Grin Mitch
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paul102a3
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« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2009, 05:05:58 AM »

Dallas, I would go with; if it isn't broke, don't fix it. I didn't want to imply that soldered wire connections won't work, only that a properly crimped connection will outlast and perform better than a solder connection.

In the marine industry, many older boats need to be surveyed every five years to maintain insurance coverage. A good Friend of mine had to cut off every factory installed soldered battery connection and replace them with crimped connections before the underwriter would renew his policy. His argument that the connections met all applicable wire codes when the boat was built was met with; find another insurance carrier.

The incident of a boat fire claim being denied was because the owner failed to follow ABYC guidelines and is detailed in a book entitled "The Nature of Boats".

I agree, people (myself included) do stupid things from time to time. Insurance underwriters do everything they can NOT to pay claims and there is a clause in my homeowners policy that says something like if a fire was a result of homeowners negligence, they are not required to pay the claim.

 
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« Reply #19 on: May 25, 2009, 05:52:41 AM »

Concerning corrosion:

I use dielectric grease on every connection, joint & bulb. It 's the greatest thing since sliced bread! Not only eliminates corrosion but makes changing bulbs a snap. Get a tube at your local auto supply store.

TOM
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Dallas
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« Reply #20 on: May 25, 2009, 07:06:25 AM »

No Problem Paul.

I will probably leave the existing connections as they are and switch to making good crimped connections as needed.
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Gary '79 5C
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« Reply #21 on: May 25, 2009, 09:02:33 AM »

Belfert,

Does your Dina, have a remote rear control station? or a rear terminal enclosure ?? I am guessing that you have the LED rear lights with pigtails, or just terminals within the enclosure.
I would suggest making the splices within the enclosure if at all possible, or if with pigtails I would try to make it to the rear control enclosure.

If all else fails, I would install a small terminal strip and use T&B stacons with forks to insert under the platen of the terminal strip. I know it is out in the ambient environment within the engine compartment, but still somewhat protected.

The reasoning is if you need to later shoot trouble and need to "break apart" the wires you can without undoing the multiple wires under one crimp.

ALL INPUT has very sound reasoning, but my experience leads me to the terminal strip. I would not worry about making it 100% weatherproof but better than nothing.

Dallas, I have seen ( that is lived long enough ) the solder method as a preferred solution. It alleviates the corrosion which can enter a properly crimped splice. There are many reasons to crimp over solder now adays, So I can go with the flow. I would imagine cold solder joints was the primary reason for the switch. Paul, I am sure you and your association has mucho more info than I which supports the position.

Everyone have a Great & Solemn Memorial Day.
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« Reply #22 on: May 25, 2009, 10:31:45 AM »

Mechanical crimped connections is the way to go.  However, there is much more to it than that.  The hand crimpers in the auto parts store will just not do the job.

You must use the correct connector, crimper and die for the application.  If you are using AMP connectors, you cannot use a T&B crimper and expect good results.  None of these parts are cheap but they are used in every industry with great reliability.

If you are using a hand crimper (vs air, hydraulic air electric powered) it must be the ratcheting type that insures you have applied the proper pressure before it will release.
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belfert
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« Reply #23 on: May 25, 2009, 11:53:45 AM »

Belfert,

Does your Dina, have a remote rear control station? or a rear terminal enclosure ?? I am guessing that you have the LED rear lights with pigtails, or just terminals within the enclosure.
I would suggest making the splices within the enclosure if at all possible, or if with pigtails I would try to make it to the rear control enclosure.

I do not have any sort of rear electrical enclosure.  The rear lights are fed by a wiring harness coming all the way from the front to the rear.  In the rear there is a large (3" diameter) waterproof plug so the harness can be disconnected.  I haven't looked to see who makes the plug.

There reason I hear most often for not using solder is vibration.  Vibration supposedly can break the stranded wire where is is soldered.
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Brian Elfert - 1995 Dina Viaggio 1000 Series 60/B500 - 75% done but usable - Minneapolis, MN
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« Reply #24 on: May 25, 2009, 07:32:08 PM »

The worst corrosion I have found in old aircraft and vehicles including my 4104 has been at the soldered wiring terminals.
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