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Author Topic: Bus polishing mistakes?  (Read 3981 times)
plyonsMC9
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« on: June 01, 2009, 09:20:08 PM »

Hi All!

I've been doing some polishing of my MC9 / stainless sides.  I have not quite got the hang of the polishing process - been using supplies purchased from International Bus Parts (IBP) - and I've noticed wax "specks" on the stainless surface.  My buffer pads don't seem overly caked w/ buffing compound - actually seem pretty clean to me..  Also, I clean them on the rake & try not to overdo the compound.   Could I be spinning the buffer wheel too quickly?  Using a Mikita.  I think it was set to 4.5   It was the blue compound I noticed the most specks with.  

When I slowed the polisher down a bit, there seemed to be less specks.  Tho', now I'm wondering if it will ever finish at the slower RPM. 

As a side note - Is IBP still around?  I've not seen anything from them in a while. 

Thank you!

Phil Lyons
« Last Edit: June 01, 2009, 09:30:15 PM by plyonsMC9 » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2009, 09:51:16 PM »

Don't know what you mean about wax specks, but I will assume you mean the residue from polishing.  Very, very dirty job and you should be able to remove the residue with paint thinner.  If you're using the blue compound you must  be on the finish end of this and I stack 3  10" loose cotton wheels at the buffers top speed, the 10" wheels will give you even more speed.  You go in the direction the buffer is turning in a straight line, not sidewise.  It is not easy to get the hang of this either.  I have IBP directions for the use of their products if you want me to email this to you, or if you want to call me I would be happy to go over what I have learned about buffing.

Ray D
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« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2009, 09:55:07 PM »

Hi Ray - I do appreciate your offer, and will get in touch as my polishing to date has been more buffoonery than buffing.   Grin

Yes, residue from the polishing is what I have.  In the interim, I'll give the paint thinner a try as you suggest.  I have the IBP directions, but would really appreciate your insights.

Kind Regards, Phil
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« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2009, 10:04:56 PM »

Sure there not mud specks from the wifes garden? No seriously I'd loose the Makita and buy a variable speed 90 degree grinder to use with the large pads. Snap On makes a really nice unit at least they used to.
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« Reply #4 on: June 02, 2009, 05:29:26 AM »

Ha Ha - very nice Airbag - specks from wife's garden.   Cheesy 

What exactly are "large pads".  I know very little in this area - the Mikita is a 90degree, variable speed, but the pads don't look real big at 8 inches.  What should I be looking for?

Thank you!!

Best Regards,

Phil "The Gardener" Lyons   Cheesy
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« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2009, 06:43:08 AM »

Phil,try this site out.I use the same deWalt machine DW849 7"/9" machine,run mine @1800 rpm(YMMV) .Takes practice,be patient ,the results can be satisfying .
Hope this helps/works Smiley
http://www.autogeek.net/metal-polishing-how-to.html

It pretty much covers aluminum but is the same practice.
I chose this machine because it is pretty much in wide spread use by most proffessional body/paint men,funny 2 close friends of mine ,couldn't agree on the time of day,let alone the paints and materials to use on a plane being restored at the time ,
yet they do agree on the equipment they use that was good enogh for me. Grin
« Last Edit: June 02, 2009, 06:53:42 AM by van » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2009, 07:40:57 AM »

Good morning Phil,

IBP is still around for sure!  I've been here for almost 15 years now (June 6th anniversary date).  Business is in a slow down just like the rest of the country but we are doing whatever it takes to keep the doors open.  Give me a call if we can help out

One thing I've recently found out is the white or the blue compund can be used as the final stage of polishing.  Some of the polishers use the white last because it isn't as "greasy".  You may try this and see if that will help.

Steve Kolb
IBP Industries Inc (International Bus & Parts)
www.ibpindustries.com
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« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2009, 07:47:54 AM »

Steve, great to hear IBP is still alive & kicking!   You guys had really helped me out in the past - when all my URL links stopped working (old web site I guess? ) I got concerned. 

I'll be in touch.  Grin

Thanks for the ideas on white vs. blue - I'll give 'er a go.

Kind Regards, Phil
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« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2009, 08:18:26 AM »

We did change the website a while back and unfortunately didn't keep the link from the old one.  I don't get on the bulletin board very often but figured I better today since I heard these rumors were floating around.  Give me a call when you get the chance, We may have some of the loose buff wheels mentioned above.
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« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2009, 08:49:06 AM »

Couple of thoughts:
1.  I prefer a fast wheel and a light touch.  Speed not torque is what doing the work.  
2.  Is your work area clean and free from road grime?  Since it is stainless, use lacquer thinner to clean before buffing.  ( If painted, use surface prep from a body shop supplier)
3.  Is your wheel moist or wet to touch?  If so, you are using too much compound.
4.  Apply compound to the metal using a 2" paint brush.  ...not too much.
5.  Is your wheel clean and fluffy?  No clumps on the wheel.  Try this:  Use a can opener to clean the wheel.  Get the old style " church key".  The kind to pierce a hole in the can.  Place the buffer on the ground and use the pointed end to clean the wheel.   ( watch for loose clothing!)  
6.  Are the specks dried compound?  If so, the wheel was too dry or ran out of compound during buffing.  Simply brush some new compound and rebuff to remove them.
7.  Since the wheel turns clockwise, work top to bottom and left to right in about 2' swaths down the bus.  This method will sling compound away and leave the buffed area clean.  
8.  Be extra careful when buffing near a painted area.  It is very easy to 'burn' an edge, thus removing the paint.  Those areas are best done by hand.  
9.  What kind of pad are you using.  Like sandpaper there are coarser and finer pads.  Try a #5. also called a "cutting pad".  They are not very fluffy and almost look like worn our shag carpet.  Once you achieve the shine and if you have swirl marks, then you can switch to a fluffy pad and rebuff using a polishing compound.   That's what we call an, "$## busting" shine!!!
« Last Edit: June 02, 2009, 08:53:10 AM by Hobie » Logged
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« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2009, 10:32:45 AM »

Excellent post Hobie- I'll keep this around for reference.  Thank you.

Have not ever tried the lacquer thinner.  Will do so.

Sounds like I'm using a different compound, in white, blue & brown bricks.  Wheel is never moist.  No clumps - I use a large fork on a stick kind of aparatus to clean the buffing wheels.

Wheel is fluffy.  Specs are actually dried compound, not from wife's flower bed.   Cheesy

Will look for the #5.  I think that is what I'm missing, takes a Loooooong time, to make any kind of impact on one small area.  and I know it is supposed to be time consuming - but I can spend hours on a panel and show very little progress.

Pad I'm using is attached in the photo - using two of those fluffy ones bolted bolted together on the polisher.

How does one do this kind of polishing by hand?  I definetly have some areas where I think that would be very useful.

Thanks again!

Best Regards, Phil
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« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2009, 11:04:13 AM »

Steve,

I see your still on and I have a question. Some years ago some one told me that you folks purchased alot of the spare parts inventory for the Model 20 Eagles from NJT. Any truth to that?
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« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2009, 11:33:07 AM »

You are using a wheel designed for a bench or floor polisher.  Also the bristles are too long and soft for this job.   Here is my setup.

Try using a paste hand rubbing compound used for auto paint. Yes, you can use it with a power buffer.  Stop by a auto body supplier to find these items.  Some Napa's also carry refinishing supplies.   Good luck.
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« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2009, 11:34:49 AM »

This is an 8" wheel to fit on a 3/4" spindle.
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« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2009, 01:51:11 PM »

Thanks again Hobie!!!

I am really getting pretty pumped about trying again.  I'm going to track down those wheels & paste.

You mentioned doing the smaller parts by hand - do I just use the same compound, or is there a special technique to that?  I do have some very small areas which I'd like to tackle as well.

Thank you! 

Phil Lyons
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« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2009, 02:36:35 PM »

Phil,
   I use 2 of the pads like the one you show in your post. I start with a brick of Black (emory) compound, then go to red (tripoli). Then depending on what the surface looks like after the first 2, I use green, white, blue.  I use differnet wheels for each differnent compound.  I hit the center of the pads with a little spray paint to match the compound color so I can keep track of which pad goes with which compound. I mount the pads on a 9" Makita angle grinder.  I also use a "pad rake" to clean the pads (I got the rake from IBP)  Jack
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« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2009, 02:38:07 PM »

Glad to help Phil.   For hand work use a soft damp cloth and dab a little compound on it and start rubbing.   Use you finger wrapped with the rag, ... a small wad,  you will discover what works best for the particular area.  

When using the wheel the compound will sling everywhere.  Depending on where you are working you may consider draping a plastic drop cloth over things to keep the dust off.  

After you are finished for the day, I like to wash or at least use a damp soft rag to wipe off any compound that drips into cracks, onto mirrors, mouldings, etc.  Dawn dish soap solution works well.  

By the way, when using this type of wheel keep it tipped slightly just enough so it is not flat against the surface.  This will quickly become apparent as it is easier to control.  Just don't want you to scratch the surface with the center nut!    

You will see electric polishers for sale that use a pad that looks similar to what I showed you.  Don't use them.  They don't rotate will enough speed and are not designed for serious buffing.  I think they are used to apply liquid wax.  
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« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2009, 02:51:07 PM »

Hobie,
   I think we are using different compounds.  I think what you are using is a cream.  What I am using (and I think what Phil is using) comes in a "brick" and is applied by holding the brick against the edge of the wheel while the grinder is running to transfer compound to the wheel. Jack
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« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2009, 02:58:27 PM »

Jack,
Are use using the same long soft 'bristle' wheel like is Phil's photo or are you using the stitched cloth one?  How bad was the original surface?  My methods are more suited to a previously buffed surface.   But I am always open to learning !   Take care.  
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« Reply #19 on: June 02, 2009, 03:06:40 PM »

    So far, I have able to get by with the loose cotton wheels like the one Phil posted the photo of.  Our coach was the OEM satin finish SS when I started.
    When using the black, boy am I black by the end of the day LOL.  I purchased some of those disposable paper coveralls that painters use. A pair of those, a bandana across my face (like a old west robber), a pair of goggles and another bandana tied on my head. At the end of the day, the bandanas go in the laundry and the coveralls go in the trash.  Jack
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« Reply #20 on: June 02, 2009, 03:38:11 PM »

You are right, I suggesting the cream type.  Feels like gritty toothpaste between your fingers.   

Now I'm curious if using the stitched type rouge wheel would be better for a first time buff of satin to smooth.  You could really lean on those pads!
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« Reply #21 on: June 02, 2009, 04:25:43 PM »

Here is a sight that will explain the different type of polishing wheels and has a lot of other good info.  They also have a forum on polishing.

http://www.caswellplating.com/buffs/buffman.htm

Ray D
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« Reply #22 on: June 02, 2009, 07:04:57 PM »

I would just like to thank all you good folk who have been sharing your knowledge.  The expertise is just amazing and APPRECIATED!!!

Thank you!!!

I'm going to get started as soon as the bus gets back from her annual maintenance check up.

Kind Regards,
Phil
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« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2009, 07:35:58 AM »

Hello:    Caswell plating prices are cheaper than any around. THey have good technical info also. The spiral wheels work well. THey have a new denim wheel that may last longer but have not tried that yet. We are in the process of starting that job.
   We are completing the painting project and just now getting the lights and mirrors remounted along with the fenders.
     just made an order with Caswell today for more buffing wheels of smaller sizes to get into places by the marker lights .
     Regards and happy bussin
    mike
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« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2009, 08:08:56 AM »

Hi Phil,
Let's back up a moment. Are you trying to buff and Polish the SS so it's shiny, or are you trying to make it look like chrome? My bus was OEM flat SS from the paint down and I have been working on it for the last year and a half trying to achieve a chrome-like finish. I started by wet-sanding it with 400 grit and moved up to 600 and then 1200. I am currently working on the 1200, but every now and then I finish out a section just to keep my interest. I use Dico products available in some hardware stores and most tool shops. Here's a link http://www.dicoproducts.com/
It sounds very similar to what Jack is using. I purchase the round sticks. When I've sanded an area well enough, I use the Black or E-5 with emory in it. Then I progress to the SC for stainless buffing, and then finally the white rouge for a mirror finish. Always use a dedicated pad for each stick. I can't stress enough about cross contamination.
Also, I have found that using a 1425RPM drill with wool carpeting is great for the E-5. You can buy cheap little sanding disks for drills from Walmart for $5 each and cut your own pads out of wool carpet rems. I had some carpeting from remodeling the bedroom and made me about a dozen pads. I chuck them rather than fork them.
When I advance to the SC stick, I swith up to a 10" buffer that I got from Harbor Ft for $35 with a wool pad also purchased from them. When I do the final White rouge, I use a soft cotton pad on the 10" at high speed. To avoid burning the paint, i left the last ridge unpolished at this time.
Let me know if you need pictures, someting is screwing up eitehr with the site or my computor, good luck, Will










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« Reply #25 on: June 03, 2009, 08:17:02 AM »

One more thing about cleaning it once you've polished it. Someone suggested using Brake Fluid--DON'T!!
I tried it just out of curiosity and it took the mirror-like finish right off. Before I used it I could shave in it, after using brake fluid, i could barely see my face in it (Not that that is all bad). The little beads of polish that you will leave behind are better rubbed off with a terry cloth towel or some such. I know, it's a lot of work, but then anything worthwhile doesn't come easy Grin Grin
In the end,it all boils down to what you're after.
PS-I studied the Caswell site before I started and talked to a lot of body professionals. I was amazed at how many people tried to sell me products and information on painted surfaces which is a whole nother ball game.
Good luck, Will
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« Reply #26 on: June 03, 2009, 09:30:30 AM »

Here's a Picture if I can get them to load-seem to be having problems with my cordless keyboard
The first is a latch on a bay after polishing.
The second is a before started polishing bus.
The third is my progress so far.
Sorry about the size, I had to shrink thm and I got carried away, Will
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« Reply #27 on: June 03, 2009, 12:47:59 PM »

We didn't acquire any parts from NJT but we have made some of the replacement stainless panels for the NJT Eagles.  You can email me direct or give me a call.  My email is skolb@ibpindustries.com or call 1-800-468-5287 x232.
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« Reply #28 on: June 03, 2009, 03:49:16 PM »

I'm goofing off today so I decided to take a few pictures of the tools I'm using and the pads I cut from carpeting (wool) plus the finish pad I use on the variable speed buffer.
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« Reply #29 on: June 03, 2009, 03:53:30 PM »

The little arbor and disks come from Wally World for five bucks and you can put any kind of homemade pads on them. I experimented with terry cloth among other things. The short nap wool carpet really impresses me the most.
Hope this helps, Will
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« Reply #30 on: June 03, 2009, 08:35:54 PM »

Thanks for all the pics and information Will.   It seems like the stiffer material on the carpet pads make a big difference.  On my surfaces, that is what I really need - I have a very dull finish on a lot of the panels. 

My situation is that years ago I had paid someone to polish the bus, but basically had to tell them to "stop" since the work was not good.  So, that is where I am at.  Lot of dull semi-polished panels.  Lots of dull S.S.  Yes, I would like the chrome-type finish.  I enjoy doing the work - if only I could see SOME progress.  The sanding idea is also very interesting.  I have a few panels that I know will need to be replaced as they are damaged.  I will go back now and re-read all the posts. I am learning A LOT! 

I would really like to get those bay handles mirror-like!!

Thanks again!  

Phil
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« Reply #31 on: June 04, 2009, 04:16:18 AM »

Phil,
   Just a reminder, if you have any dings or dents in your panels, they will be much more noticeable with a mirror finish. That said, even with a few dings & dents that were there when we purchased the coach, I stll like the mirror look.  Jack
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« Reply #32 on: June 04, 2009, 12:07:28 PM »

Jack, did you do all the polishing, including bringing the panels from completely dull to mirror finish, using those pads and just the different grades of polish? 

The only "bricks" of polish I have are brown, white & blue.  Is the black (emory) rougher than the brown? 

Yes, dings, scratches will show.  I'll need to purchase a couple of panels from someplace like IBP, then learn how to rivet.   Cheesy  Cheesy

Thanks again! Phil

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« Reply #33 on: June 04, 2009, 12:26:12 PM »

Riveting will be like a walk in the park after polishing!
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« Reply #34 on: June 04, 2009, 01:31:53 PM »

Jack, did you do all the polishing, including bringing the panels from completely dull to mirror finish, using those pads and just the different grades of polish?  
    The only "bricks" of polish I have are brown, white & blue.  Is the black (emery) rougher than the brown?  
Thanks again! Phil

  Yes, just bricks of polish and different pair of pads for each compound, and a lot of hours holding that grinder/polisher!
  Yes, black (emery) is the fastest cutting compound I have used (think ground up emery wheel off of a grinder.  If the polishing wheel with emery on it hits a painted surface, paint is gone, almost instantly.  The emery leaves a film on the SS panel.  I use mineral spirits to remove the film before going to what I call red (may be the same as your brown), actual compound in Tripoli.  
  If you work top to bottom left to right, you will sling the compound away from the are you just finished. This saves clean up time and gives you something to admire.  Jack
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« Reply #35 on: June 06, 2009, 04:39:17 PM »

I live in North Carolina & have a MC-8 that needs polishing.  I'm looking to hire someone to do the job.  Any recommendations of who could & would do the job?
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« Reply #36 on: June 08, 2009, 06:13:09 AM »

There are several companies in Florida.  Anderson's Coach Works 407-695-3950, Mirror Image 407-301-3812, and Dazzleing Detail 407-948-9284.  Hope this helps.
Steve
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« Reply #37 on: June 08, 2009, 07:39:17 PM »

I live in North Carolina & have a MC-8 that needs polishing.  I'm looking to hire someone to do the job.  Any recommendations of who could & would do the job?
There's not enough sweet rum in all the islands to ever tackle another bus polishing project, LOL
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