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Author Topic: OK I Hate Bodywork I need bus painting 101  (Read 6909 times)
Dallas
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« on: June 03, 2009, 01:02:22 PM »

As the title says: I hate bodywork. I've always hated bodywork. I'll always hate bodywork. Sooooo....

I'm going to paint the old 4103 this summer. The temps are going to be in the high 80's to mid 90's. Humidity, if history is reliable will be in the 70 to 90% range.

I've looked at all kinds of paint systems, and it looks to me like a single stage acrylic enamel will be the easiest for me to deal with.

I've painted before, many years ago and used a brand of paint called Western Enamel or something like that. But, it was under the watchful eye of my ex father in law, and he was in charge of mixing and timing and showing me how to make good strokes. That was over 25 years ago, and I only did 3 different vehicles, all Arctic White.

Now, I am planning on doing a minimal paint removal, in the clear areas down to the aluminum, and selectively using a stripper around the rivets, although a bunch of those will be replaced because there are about 8 different sized rivet heads on the same side.

How about some of you really good painting experts give me a auto-painting 101 course here. Assume I don't have any idea what I'm doing, (which I don't), and that the only real painting I've ever done was with a brush or roller or a rattle can, (almost true).

I don't know enough to know what I don't know. I also don't know what questions to ask. Help me out?
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« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2009, 01:59:02 PM »

Ok. I'll start. 
1.  As you know,  surface prep is most important.  Sand well.  Use a scotchbright pad ( red ) around the rivets. If its not sanded, it won't stick.
2.  Temps in the high 80's is high.  Enamel reducers (thinners) are sold in various speeds to match the ambiant temp ( fast, slow, etc).  Buy a extra slow reducer.  Maybe even a retarder.  I prefer not using a retarder, but it may be necessary.  Stop by a local body shop and talk to their painter.  The problem with the high temps is the paint does not flow out enough creating orange peel texture and a dry spot when you are blending panels.  Start early in the am. 
3.  Solid colors tend to be more forgiving than metallics.  You can get 'zebra' stripes from overlapping paint strokes with the metallics. 
4.  Reds tend to be most expensive and require a sealer to prevent the base color from bleeding through. 
5.  Bare Aluminum needs to be spot primed with special primer. 
6.  I would wipe the rear bus panels with a degreaser before sanding to remove all oily film.  Oil creates fish-eyes in the paint.  By the way buy some fisheye remover to add to your paint.  .... cheap insurance. 

Good luck.
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« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2009, 02:18:09 PM »

I have alway used the best epoxy primer/sealers.   In the end they save your bodywork sins.

PPG  DP 40 is the standard green/grey used by many shops.   Omni is a decent enamel system.
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« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2009, 02:20:08 PM »

Here is a link, buy Kevins video on painting a car, it is a great tape and you will learn all you need to know.  There are also places on the net that rent it, but you will be much better off having it so you can reference back to it.
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« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2009, 02:27:16 PM »

Dallas,

Well, Its a lot of work.... I have 2 Eagles in primer right now.... (Only one is mine, I am just helping with the other one). Primer is a good thing! It lets you take your time as you work for perfection and you can have a unit all the same color too. You can also get the paint store to tint it any color if you want. Cheated the rivits on my 20. I used a wire wheel on a big grinder motor and stripped about 2 inches around leaving solid paint in a pretty much straight line up and down the panel. Used a paint brush and matched the paint height with fiberglass resin, loaded primer over that and finish sanded for smooth. Seems to work and the glass will do the best job of sealing the rivits I can think of.

The local marine paint supply sells very high quality paint in 5 gallon buckets that are rejects for inexact color and over production for a buck a gallon. I will have about $5 in paint. I wanted white and they had alot of that in alkyd enamel. They also have alot of various colors as well as 2 part paints that can be used above or below the water line. Maybe I'll try some of that on the shop floor!

The biggest problem I have is taping. Even with the tape machine it takes along time and in humidity the tape can't stay on long or it becomes somewhat permanent. Guess when the 20 is all in primer and perfect it will get finished by the panel!

You pretty much have to do the roof first... Can't drag hoses etc. over new paint. I almost fell yesterday, but a very good ladder saved me.  I should have brought a 40" flatbed home, really should have brought 2 home to work off and just do it outside, still should, Guess I'll put the help up for the rest of the job, I'm to old to fall, so I strongly recomment a very tall A frame ladder or a scaffold setup to work from..

Start out with a very clean shop floor, grease and paint don't look good. A good gun is very important and the air supply has to be moisture free.

Paint thinner is for gun clean up etc, Laquer thinner is for thinning paint and wiping down the surface before painting. I don't use acetone for anything. I also wipe my hoses with laquer thinner so they don't contaminate the skins. Don't thin your paint with paint thinner it will never dry.

I chose the Alkyd Enamel because it will cover the old paint no problem, its something I can touch up myself any time I need to, and it won't turn into cement on me and in my paint equiptment.

Had to thin my primer about 20 percent to get it through the gun. Says on the can not to but the real painters say it needs to be about the consistancy of water before it sees the gun.

Chris and I took the 05 and the 20 to Bakersfield to buy a toilet, (It was $50 cheaper!), in April for a couple weeks fun and started sanding the 05 down there. We didn't have air and I bought an oscilating 5 inch pad sander that works just like a DA but is electric at Home Depot. Its a Milwaukee tool and I like it very much. It uses hook and loop pads. I have 3 DA's, 2 stick on and 1 old glue on. I grab the electric most of the time, its a great little sander. I have used mostly 60 and 80 grit to get into primer and will likely finish with no more than 100 grit.

I hope your not sorry you asked!!!!!!!!!!!! The hardest part for me is the enormity of the project. The damn thing is just overwelming in size and sometimes it gets to me, but it really is comming along pretty well.

Chris bought a professional airless like they use for houses in Tracy and it only took about 1 1/2 hours to shoot the whole bus in primer and it looks real good. I  have a decent HVLP paint gun here at the home shop and will likely do the entire job with it, but the airless really kicked butt, it just takes alot of thinner, (have been told I can use motor oil also with enamel), for machine clean up every time its used. (Like about 2 gallons). We also had to thin with laquer thinner with the airless. If you use the airless, the 15 nozzle worked real well.

I had hoped to do the entire paint job with one taping, but the pros have told me I can't leave the tape on that long. Oh, 3M is the favored tape. Damn, I hate to tape. Oh well, I can only do this in my so called spare time so thats how it will have to be.

I have shared my experiences with you, I am sure others can help us both, because I ain't no pro at this, so come on everyone help us out a little here. If anyone knows what to use for a projector for art work, graphics, etc, I could use some help on that also. Think I want a warbird on the side with a full weapons load under the wings or something like that on the sides. Help.

Dallas, wish you wouldn't have brought this up, Now I'm way behind with my day!!!!!
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« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2009, 04:16:19 PM »

Wow, you are in for some fun!

I'm not a paint expert by any means, just look at mine! Roll Eyes After discussing my redo with a paint expert I'm going to go with basecoat/clearcoat this time. I used single stage PPG and it's OK, would have been better for me if it had been a solid paint, no metallic. It's all about the prep as was said before, scratched and clean is important. I also used an electric orbital sander, uses 5" hook and loop pads, mine was a Sears model. It does work good, and you get to get dirty!

Paint an old hood or body part first before you lay any paint. I didn't do that and used the bus as the experiment, not the smartest thing to do. Sure wish I would have painted a small project first to get the hang of it, cause the bus is a big canvas!

Good Luck and if you get yours like you like it you can do mine next! Grin

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« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2009, 06:11:19 PM »

I will just give a word of advise and not get into what type of system or to clear coat or not because if you ask ten different painters you get ten different answers.

I will say wipe the bus with Super Kleen or Prep-Sol before you sand, it is a pre sanding silcone and wax remover and  wipe things down with it just before Tac Rag ing. My two cents and good luck with the job.  
« Last Edit: June 03, 2009, 06:14:08 PM by Airbag » Logged
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« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2009, 06:58:56 PM »

I dont like painting or bodywork, I can do the bodywork, just dont like it. The painting I cant stand, I dont like the smell, I dont like cleaning up, I dont like the mess. Then the job looks crappy.
 After much debate, I did the prep work and hired the painting done.
It would seem in these times that you should be able to find an experienced painter for a resonable amount of money. Ask around, check the local tech center, ask where you are going to buy the paint, you know the drill. Sometimes it is better to just bite the bullet and spend a few bucks.  HTH  JIm
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« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2009, 07:14:04 PM »

Does anyone use Alodine on the bare aluminum? I need to paint my bus as well. The steel parts are what worry me. The old paint is oxidized pretty bad and there is some rust. I painted a lot of aluminum overseas containers once with an airless and it worked great. It took about 3 gallons for one coat on a 40 foot container.
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« Reply #9 on: June 03, 2009, 07:53:22 PM »

Even though I have had a lot of experience with guns doing cabinet work, the automotive paint is still really different.  I goes on completely different from any of the precats that are used for wood finishing. At about $200 for 2 gallons for the automotive, after the paint, hardeners, and redusers, you don't want to make any mistakes.

I practiced on the roof.  No body will ever see it up there.  Then I broke all the other areas down into small areas.  I masked off every other bay door and painted each one separately.  You can mask to every seam on the siding and paint theses smaller areas individually.  This is really important in the heat.  Yes, it took a long time doing it this way, but it avoided dry spots, streaks, and running out of paint before an area was completed.  The paint in the pot can be dead in 30 minutes if it is hot.  Mix small batches. Don't paint in the sun.  Get good strong lights and point it at the area you are painting,  even outside in the light. Don't apply two part paint over spray can primer.  It will wrinkle. Three thin coats laid  over a tack dry surface are better than one thick coat.  There is a very fine line between enough and Toooo much paint. Sand paper will fix anything. Wipe down the area with cleaner just before shooting.

I got to learn with metallic.  Sagging flakes are a real drag. 

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« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2009, 08:03:23 PM »

I went to the mexican community and found a crew to finish bodywork and paint my 04 with clear coat three color for $1200.00. I am happy and they had a big party when completed at my airport.  One busnut calls it the
margurita bus down in the islands.
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« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2009, 08:16:10 PM »

Charles in SC.
Oxidized paint is not a problem.  Actually it sands easier than shiny paint!  Just be sure it is well adhered to the metal. If is is flaking or otherwise not bonded well, then you need to sand to bare metal and primer.

Dallas,
Not sure if I would go with an airless.  A regular spray gun ( compressed air ) really atomizes the paint well and shoots in a wide even fan.  This makes for a nice final finish.  Just my experience.  

One more thing when actually painting.  Patience!  The trick is to not put it all on at once.  And when you are spraying, don't try to make it look good with each pass.  In other words, if you lay it on thick so it is smooth, wet and shiny you will always get a run or sagging paint.  Especially around a hard edge like a rivit or a crease in the panel.   As mentioned, there is a fine line in how much you apply with each coat.  

It may take 3 coats to cover so don't rush it.  The first coat will be at a pressure and distance to lay down a thin light, smooth wet coat.  If you move too fast and get a dry spray area with texture..... the final finish will have this texture.  No amount of extra paint will make it flow out.  Think of this coat as providing the 'tooth' for the next. 

Now the hard part--  Wait!   The next and subsequent coats will go on after the prior is tacky.  Touch a masked area with your finger.  If the paint is sticky and barely transfers to your finger you are ready for the next coat.  The next coats may be a tad thicker...... careful. ..

When you have everything covered and there are no spots showing through, hang up your gun.   (3-4 coats)   There is no benefit for a thick coat of paint.  ( If you are painting a show car or covering stripes or airbrush art with clear, well that is a different story and technique)  It will have a little orange peel or texture but should be quite wet.  Not wet or thick enough to sag,  just right!  Now as the paint slowly drys it will move and smooth out nicely.  

Ideally you should do the painting in a booth or inside a building.  For dust control, no bugs, and better visibility.   Turn off anything that will make a spark.  Including the compressor.  Hopefully is located outside.  And of course, use a good mask with new or newer filters.  

Mix up a pint of paint and practice on a junk panel or hood.  Some spray booths have windows in them and maybe you could watch a painter and get a good head start.  

One more thing on masking.  It is easier to mask than clean overspray later.   Both primer and paint.  Run wide paper like a curtain below the skirts and around wheel wells.  The spray gun will blow and draw dust and dirt from the underside into your new paint.  Tape behind doors and cracks.  ....

Window rubbers should be wiped with lacquer thinner to help the masking tape stick.  Shiny or Armor All  rubber will not allow tape to stick.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2009, 08:20:51 PM by Hobie » Logged
Dallas
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« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2009, 08:39:45 PM »

Thanks guys, I'm taking all this down in hand written notes.

A lot to think of and a lot of work to do just to get ready, but I hope it'll look at least a little better than it does now when I get finished.

Are you sure I can't use a good ol' white wash brush to get a smooth finish? LOL  Grin

Dallas
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« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2009, 09:48:39 PM »

Does anyone use Alodine on the bare aluminum? I need to paint my bus as well. The steel parts are what worry me. The old paint is oxidized pretty bad and there is some rust. I painted a lot of aluminum overseas containers once with an airless and it worked great. It took about 3 gallons for one coat on a 40 foot container.

I use it in the airplane biz. It is very toxic but gives the best paint adhesion. It is a conversion coating and would be difficult to use on a large surface such as a bus because you can only leave it on for two to five minutes before you have to rinse it off. And normally you use a brush when you rinse to get the excess off. The aluminum has to be free of all contaminates and corrosion and requires an etch before you apply the alodine. Take it to an airplane paint shop where they have the equipment to do large areas of aluminum. If it is done properly it leaves a beautiful gold color on the aluminum and is the closest thing anodizing you can get.

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« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2009, 03:59:27 AM »

Yes Dallas you can use a wide white wash brush. But not the junk they sell at Harbor Freight! You will need to buy a top quality brush, you get what you pay for.   HTH  JIm
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« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2009, 04:10:54 AM »

Dalls, I bought two guns from HF, about 15 bucks each. One for primer, one for finish coat. They worked great!

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=47016

Can't wait to see the final product of your labor of love!

HTH,

~Paul~

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« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2009, 06:23:48 AM »

Gee, Paul,
How about you come down and paint and I'll set up your network for you!
Actually, I already have one of the HF guns, but I think your right, I will get another one to use for priming.
Before I do any of the painting I have to get a couple of other things done, one of which is to install a new door handle/latch that I got from a Prevost XLII.
For paint I found some stuff called Mega Gloss Topside Polyurethane Enamel by Blue Water Marine Paint that looks like it won't be too difficult to shoot.
Here's a link to an eBay auction for it:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110360437905&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT

Does anyone have any pros or cons to using this type of paint?




Dalls, I bought two guns from HF, about 15 bucks each. One for primer, one for finish coat. They worked great!

http://http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=47016

Can't wait to see the final product of your labor of love!

HTH,

~Paul~


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« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2009, 06:31:46 AM »

Just take the bus and your check book to Mexico and enjoy a nice vacation Smiley

Actually, I think you are on the right track.  Swap some of your many talents doing things you do enjoy with some fool who likes to paint buses.
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« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2009, 06:38:45 AM »

You have to ask yourself "if automotive paint is $100 gallon, what kinda paint am I gonna get for $14.95?"

My recommendation for you is to stick with an automotive type paint, an acrylic enamel, and no metallics.

One of the nice things about having a "primer" gun is that you don't have to clean it up each time, just leave the primer in it all day.
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Dallas
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« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2009, 07:02:55 AM »

Actually, I wasn't planning on getting the paint from that seller.. I would have no idea how old it is, especially at that price. Since that is the quart price, it would be in the $60/gallon range and then shipping would come into play also, which sucks.

I only put that auction up to show what the can looked like and give some idea what it was.

You have to ask yourself "if automotive paint is $100 gallon, what kinda paint am I gonna get for $14.95?"

My recommendation for you is to stick with an automotive type paint, an acrylic enamel, and no metallics.

One of the nice things about having a "primer" gun is that you don't have to clean it up each time, just leave the primer in it all day.
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« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2009, 07:06:57 AM »

That price of $14.95 is per quart! I would stick with automotive basecoat/clearcoat. It's easier for a newbie, sure wish I would have gone that route. Now I get to do ours over, and you know how I feel about that! Cry

Here is a site with a wealth of information. http://www.autobody101.com/forums/

Take a few days and read, read, read. Roll Eyes

I'd help ya but my arm isn't long enough! Grin

~Paul~
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« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2009, 07:19:59 AM »

Timely question Dallas.  I'm hopefully not too far from painting as well. 

I've been snooping around trying to sort out paint etc.  One place I stumbled across is http://www.paintforcars.com/ .   They at least have information that mere mortals can understand.  I spent the better part of a day trying to decipher PPG and SW's site before finding this place.   I've emailed these guys twice and received real answers from humans!

Anyone have any truck with these guys?

Matt
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« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2009, 03:43:02 AM »

Dallas, A buddy of mine, Doug1968, is getting his MCI 102A3 ready for prime and paint. He sent me a few pics last night, it's looking good! I'll find out what brand of paint he is going to use and let you know. His neighbor is doing the shooting and Doug is doing the grunt work! Grin

Paul
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« Reply #23 on: June 06, 2009, 06:00:37 AM »


Remember safety.

All sprayed paints are hazardous.  The 2 part epoxies are carcinogenic.  I think this includes all basecoat/clearcoat systems.  The safest approach is to use a full face mask with a fresh air supply.

I have heard that a fresh filter in the traditional mask is adequate, or a special 3M mask.  But, I could not verify it.

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« Reply #24 on: June 06, 2009, 08:13:43 AM »

Couple of random thoughts.

I do NOT like basecoat/clearcoat.  If you look around you will see cars that are not too old with the clearcoat flaking off.  Clearcoat technology has improved, but it still goes bad much faster that a plain color.  If you go clearcoat, do your homework.  You will want to use a top-of-the-line product.

I don't think masks offer much protection for some of today's paints.  This is especially true if you have any facial hair.  I discussed the subject on this thread:  http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=11379.msg119831#msg119831.  In that thread, I talk about making your own fresh air breathing system.  Others offered good information as well.

Update:  not sure why the thread link (above) does not work.  Here is a link to the top of the thread:  http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=11379

Jim
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« Reply #25 on: June 06, 2009, 04:43:17 PM »

The correct masks to use are actually "respirators" with replacable cartridges.

Anything less simply would not work... If you can smell the paint through the respirator then you have the wrong type or cartridge. You need the "Organics" cartridge.

As for another note. When selecting your paint, You will probably get several gallons of the same mixed color. You need to make sure that the color is totally constant across all the cans of paint. This insures a consistant color especially when doing painting in stages and separate days.. I have done several vehicles in the OMNI brand with good results even with UPS (Chocolate ) Brown metallic. The trick there is to have a clear path down both sides of the bus so that you can pace along while laying down the coats evenly. Generally once you start spraying you can't stop until its all done so be prepared for a full day and tired arms. I spent years doing industrial coatings with some of the nastiest epoxy paints. One was actually banned in california ( Sherwin Williams Polane-T ) Now that was nasty stuff but I survived it. Sort of like Imron on steroids.
It bonded to metal and could not be simply removed without the metal coming up too!

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« Reply #26 on: June 06, 2009, 09:56:55 PM »

Dallas,

As Paul has noted I am in the middle of painting my 102A3. I started about two weeks ago by removing the windows and installing a cold roll skin in place of two windows on each side of the bus. I made a drawing of the shape I needed and had the cold roll laser cut to the proper shape. I then made up tubular cross pieces to fit inside the window openings to give more support to the new sheeting. I dry fit the pieces to check for proper alignment and then drilled for rivits. Removed the skin, deburred, cleaned everything up with laquer thinner, applied Fusor two part epoxy adhesive (112B) and positioned the skins in place with clecos. Removed one cleco at a time and installed 3/16" stainless rivits. Turned out really nice.

We then moved to sanding the side panels and the fiberglass surrounds at the front of the bus. I spent approximately 12 hours sanding these components and then applied the first coat of laquer primer. Sanded with 320 and checked for any areas that were not flat. I then applied another coat of primer and once again sanded with 320. This area is now very nice. I am impressed with how smooth it came out.

We will leave this area alone and move to the roof and the back of the bus. Same process, DA sand with 80 grit, fix any bad spots with filler, clean very good with laquer thinner and then primer. Sand with 320, apply second coat of primer and check for flatness/smoothness. Adjust any bad areas as required.

This bus had originally stripes running down the sides. These were painted on and when you ran your hand across the side panel you could feel the edges of the stripes. Really bad! These panels are now smooth as a baby's butt. I think this paint job will turn out good. Your final product will only be as good as the prep work.

I plan on painting the roof with the automotive paint up over the drip channel approximately 12". I will then apply a layer of Bus-Coat primer and then two layers of Bus-Coat paint. This get rolled on with a roller and then covered with a clear final coat. This material has some insulating characteristics and my plan is to use it on most of the roof.

We will paint the bus with a PPG 2 stage paint using a base color. Then we will tape off for the graphics and paint three additional colors. After all of the colors are applied we will apply 3-4 coats of clear. Then we will buff the clear to finish.

As of today we probably have about 65 hours in installing the side skins and preparing the sides and front for paint. I estimate we will spend about another 20 hours getting the roof and the back of the bus in primer and ready to paint. I think it will take about 20 hours to apply all four colors and the clear and another 16 hours to buff out the clear.

Here is the problem with a project like this. Once I have the paint finished the stainless sides will look bad and then I have another project?Huh Never ends.

In summation I would say this:

1) The cold roll sheet metal (14 ga) went on very well.
2) The Fusor panel adhesive product was very easy to use and had a 70 minute work time. I will use it again as I am replacing the skin on the rear blower door to get rid of the rivits.
3) The preparation of the side panels actually was easy. there is just a lot of area and mine were really bad with all of the stripes.
4) The laquer primer is very easy to work with and the final finish is like glass.
5) During this process I have removed some of the components from the bus, like the drip rail above the windows and the entrance door. I have also removed some of the sealant between panels that did not look good quality. I will replace this with an automotive seam seal that is paintable after priming but before paint.
6) It is very hard to decide on a color combination. There is just too much to choose from. I borrowed a PPG book from the paint store and after much indecision we have decided on the four colors. Very difficult process.
7) It pays to have the proper equipment and a good building to work in as this process would be difficult outside.
Cool Other than the large size the bus is actually really easy to paint. Nice flat panels at eye height?
9) The nice thing about the base coat - clear coat paint is that it is easy to correct mistakes. If you have a run you can just sand it out and proceed.

When I have the project completed I will post some photos.

Good luck to you with your paint project.

Doug


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« Reply #27 on: June 06, 2009, 10:55:26 PM »

Dallas,

If I can do this you sure as hexx can.

I hired a body and fender man to get me started and that was worth the money.  Much as a pro would be in showing you the ins and outs in running a rack.  The book gets you close, but!  A pro is a pro no matter which field you go.

I used SW and it was superb.  I looked at some PPG jobs and they were not nearly as good.  The paint industry changes so be careful.  I would also advise against two stage and certainly stick with solids/non metallic.

The paints are really poison....like dead.  If you spray in a booth you need a air supply mask AND some of this stuff can be absorbed through your eyes FOR CHRIXXX SAKE. Even you skin for some.  Most of that goes out the window if you wear a good mask and filter and paint OUTSIDE.  Nobody believes me Angry  With no wind and doing it in the early morn the vert sides come out spot/bug/dust free.  Just wet down the dirt in the field before you spray.  A big warehouse also works.  The roof gets high gloss Emron white and yes bugs and dust get on it but that doesn't matter up there.

Hire a "Shooter" for peace of mind but I had a ball and was cock proud of the result.  Labor cost ZERO.

I painted the lines on the side by walking the length of the coach with the gun wide open.  Made three passes for the Emron stripes.

A large veh. like a bus should be painted with a high volume gun.  If you use the HF item you should adjust the "speed" of your thinner to prevent the paint getting an overspray dull finish.  A shooter will have that gun cause they WILL NOT USE YOUR GUN.  And they won't lend a gun to anybody including relatives.

After you select SW product ask the store that sells it to recommend a shooter you can afford.  They protect their rep and talk up only the very best.  Shooters are product brand loyalists cause each product has its quirks and foibles.

The reason most hate body work is that their many hours of hard labor and meticulous attention to detail gets screwed up with the paint application and relatively few are good painters.  Any can be one of those, however.  Problem is you are going to do it once and your learning curve will be vertical.  Like I said though, if I can do it you can do it.  Outside in the dirt driveway Huh Shocked Cool Grin Grin

Have BubbaGal help ya.  She worked for seven years in a ....

Good luck,

John
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« Reply #28 on: June 07, 2009, 12:18:05 AM »

Dalls, I bought two guns from HF, about 15 bucks each. One for primer, one for finish coat. They worked great!

http://http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=47016

Can't wait to see the final product of your labor of love!

HTH,

~Paul~




You know guys this is why our economy is F.U ped. Why would you buy the Chinese gun when you can buy made in USA?HuhHuhHuh?? This is really starting to get under my skin. Even if you go on e-bay you can buy a used Binks or Divilbus for just a tad bit more than what you paid at Harbor Treason.  Sad All this flag waving here and we do this Y.G.T.B.S.M. Hell my shoes are made in Red Wing Minnesota! For Shame
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« Reply #29 on: June 07, 2009, 03:56:20 AM »

Dalls, I bought two guns from HF, about 15 bucks each. One for primer, one for finish coat. They worked great!

http://http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=47016

Can't wait to see the final product of your labor of love!

HTH,

~Paul~




You know guys this is why our economy is F.U ped. Why would you buy the Chinese gun when you can buy made in USA?HuhHuhHuh?? This is really starting to get under my skin. Even if you go on e-bay you can buy a used Binks or Divilbus for just a tad bit more than what you paid at Harbor Treason.  Sad All this flag waving here and we do this Y.G.T.B.S.M. Hell my shoes are made in Red Wing Minnesota! For Shame


 Huh

Nevermind, I don't want to mess up a good Bus related topic! It was a good response too! Wink

Paul
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Travel Blog - http://dreamscapetravels.wordpress.com/
Bus Blog - http://dreamscapesilvereagle.wordpress.com/
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« Reply #30 on: June 07, 2009, 05:19:40 AM »

Thanks Paul.
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« Reply #31 on: June 07, 2009, 07:08:58 AM »


John,

    "Have BubbaGal help ya.  She worked for seven years in a ...."

   You feel better now?

  Dallas
     Hope you pic document well and show us.
     Clean clean clean......... The PO didn't and now I have a lot of touch up area's  Tongue
      Good luck.

Skip
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« Reply #32 on: June 08, 2009, 09:26:50 AM »

Skip,

YES!  How bout you?

John
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The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
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« Reply #33 on: June 08, 2009, 09:54:27 AM »


  JohnED:  Well it is snowing right now and I was going to do some laminant today.
 Guess that won't happen  Angry

   I guess it is like a lot of things in life........just keep moving forward.

  Looked at the bus this weekend to see what I could work on first.......
    everytime I go out there something else ends up needing to be fixed oh the humanity Undecided
   Ever see a bus slowly dissintegrate in front of your eyes Shocked

   Hey Dallas once you get the painting thing figured out will you be taking on
 weekend shoots?   Cool  I can prep..... maybe..... if I have to

    Skip
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« Reply #34 on: June 08, 2009, 12:09:56 PM »

Skip,
As a painter, I figure I make a pretty good mechanic, or maybe a rocket surgeon. I doubt that anyone would want me splattwering paint on their hard work.

But if you want to come down here and offer to prep, I would be happy to hook you up with a 30 or 50 Amp space, and maybe even the beverage of your choice. At least the snow is over here and the pool is almost up to 90°
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« Reply #35 on: June 08, 2009, 10:20:06 PM »

Skip,

Well said!  And correct.

Hope you get some decent weather so you can bear down on it.  I don't have your snow excuse but I share that feeling that the thing is disintegrating in front of you.

I recently, within weeks, have removed and replaced my Dometic Refridge, riped out the old stove and oven and installed a new range and oven....Magic Chief no less, striped the oak floor and "hand rubbed" polyurethane on it....looks great, Replaced the brake master cylinder and rebuilt the air over hydraulics,  Replaced lining front and back and turned the drums and replaced all the wheel cylinders, Replaced a mile of rusted brake line (thanks PA salted roads)Ripped out the toilet and bath floor, installed a power vent, removed a gas tank and had it boiled and fiberglassed and after it leaked again I re fiberglassed it and reinstalled it, Rebuilt my steering gear, built a cabnet for the bath, Re did all my power cords and replaced all adapters, reran all my copper gas lines, and repacked all wheel bearings.    AND I STILL FEEL SWAMPED and that I am falling behind.  Yes, I identify with your feelings.

Hang in there.  Helena will warm up shortly.  Have you heard about global warming?  HTR will fill you in. Huh Roll Eyes Grin Grin Grin Grin

Be well and happy, earthling,

John
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"An uneducated vote is a treasonous act more damaging than any treachery of the battlefield.
The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men." Plato
“We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
—Pla
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