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Author Topic: OK I Hate Bodywork I need bus painting 101  (Read 6932 times)
Dreamscape
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« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2009, 04:10:54 AM »

Dalls, I bought two guns from HF, about 15 bucks each. One for primer, one for finish coat. They worked great!

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=47016

Can't wait to see the final product of your labor of love!

HTH,

~Paul~

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Becky and Paul Lawry, On The Road
Travel Blog - http://dreamscapetravels.wordpress.com/
Bus Blog - http://dreamscapesilvereagle.wordpress.com/
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Dallas
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« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2009, 06:23:48 AM »

Gee, Paul,
How about you come down and paint and I'll set up your network for you!
Actually, I already have one of the HF guns, but I think your right, I will get another one to use for priming.
Before I do any of the painting I have to get a couple of other things done, one of which is to install a new door handle/latch that I got from a Prevost XLII.
For paint I found some stuff called Mega Gloss Topside Polyurethane Enamel by Blue Water Marine Paint that looks like it won't be too difficult to shoot.
Here's a link to an eBay auction for it:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110360437905&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT

Does anyone have any pros or cons to using this type of paint?




Dalls, I bought two guns from HF, about 15 bucks each. One for primer, one for finish coat. They worked great!

http://http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=47016

Can't wait to see the final product of your labor of love!

HTH,

~Paul~


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Len Silva
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« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2009, 06:31:46 AM »

Just take the bus and your check book to Mexico and enjoy a nice vacation Smiley

Actually, I think you are on the right track.  Swap some of your many talents doing things you do enjoy with some fool who likes to paint buses.
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« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2009, 06:38:45 AM »

You have to ask yourself "if automotive paint is $100 gallon, what kinda paint am I gonna get for $14.95?"

My recommendation for you is to stick with an automotive type paint, an acrylic enamel, and no metallics.

One of the nice things about having a "primer" gun is that you don't have to clean it up each time, just leave the primer in it all day.
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Dallas
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« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2009, 07:02:55 AM »

Actually, I wasn't planning on getting the paint from that seller.. I would have no idea how old it is, especially at that price. Since that is the quart price, it would be in the $60/gallon range and then shipping would come into play also, which sucks.

I only put that auction up to show what the can looked like and give some idea what it was.

You have to ask yourself "if automotive paint is $100 gallon, what kinda paint am I gonna get for $14.95?"

My recommendation for you is to stick with an automotive type paint, an acrylic enamel, and no metallics.

One of the nice things about having a "primer" gun is that you don't have to clean it up each time, just leave the primer in it all day.
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Dreamscape
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« Reply #20 on: June 05, 2009, 07:06:57 AM »

That price of $14.95 is per quart! I would stick with automotive basecoat/clearcoat. It's easier for a newbie, sure wish I would have gone that route. Now I get to do ours over, and you know how I feel about that! Cry

Here is a site with a wealth of information. http://www.autobody101.com/forums/

Take a few days and read, read, read. Roll Eyes

I'd help ya but my arm isn't long enough! Grin

~Paul~
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Becky and Paul Lawry, On The Road
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Bus Blog - http://dreamscapesilvereagle.wordpress.com/
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« Reply #21 on: June 05, 2009, 07:19:59 AM »

Timely question Dallas.  I'm hopefully not too far from painting as well. 

I've been snooping around trying to sort out paint etc.  One place I stumbled across is http://www.paintforcars.com/ .   They at least have information that mere mortals can understand.  I spent the better part of a day trying to decipher PPG and SW's site before finding this place.   I've emailed these guys twice and received real answers from humans!

Anyone have any truck with these guys?

Matt
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« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2009, 03:43:02 AM »

Dallas, A buddy of mine, Doug1968, is getting his MCI 102A3 ready for prime and paint. He sent me a few pics last night, it's looking good! I'll find out what brand of paint he is going to use and let you know. His neighbor is doing the shooting and Doug is doing the grunt work! Grin

Paul
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« Reply #23 on: June 06, 2009, 06:00:37 AM »


Remember safety.

All sprayed paints are hazardous.  The 2 part epoxies are carcinogenic.  I think this includes all basecoat/clearcoat systems.  The safest approach is to use a full face mask with a fresh air supply.

I have heard that a fresh filter in the traditional mask is adequate, or a special 3M mask.  But, I could not verify it.

Ed Roelle
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« Reply #24 on: June 06, 2009, 08:13:43 AM »

Couple of random thoughts.

I do NOT like basecoat/clearcoat.  If you look around you will see cars that are not too old with the clearcoat flaking off.  Clearcoat technology has improved, but it still goes bad much faster that a plain color.  If you go clearcoat, do your homework.  You will want to use a top-of-the-line product.

I don't think masks offer much protection for some of today's paints.  This is especially true if you have any facial hair.  I discussed the subject on this thread:  http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=11379.msg119831#msg119831.  In that thread, I talk about making your own fresh air breathing system.  Others offered good information as well.

Update:  not sure why the thread link (above) does not work.  Here is a link to the top of the thread:  http://www.busconversions.com/bbs/index.php?topic=11379

Jim
« Last Edit: June 06, 2009, 08:22:02 AM by rv_safetyman » Logged

Jim Shepherd
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« Reply #25 on: June 06, 2009, 04:43:17 PM »

The correct masks to use are actually "respirators" with replacable cartridges.

Anything less simply would not work... If you can smell the paint through the respirator then you have the wrong type or cartridge. You need the "Organics" cartridge.

As for another note. When selecting your paint, You will probably get several gallons of the same mixed color. You need to make sure that the color is totally constant across all the cans of paint. This insures a consistant color especially when doing painting in stages and separate days.. I have done several vehicles in the OMNI brand with good results even with UPS (Chocolate ) Brown metallic. The trick there is to have a clear path down both sides of the bus so that you can pace along while laying down the coats evenly. Generally once you start spraying you can't stop until its all done so be prepared for a full day and tired arms. I spent years doing industrial coatings with some of the nastiest epoxy paints. One was actually banned in california ( Sherwin Williams Polane-T ) Now that was nasty stuff but I survived it. Sort of like Imron on steroids.
It bonded to metal and could not be simply removed without the metal coming up too!

Happy Painting.. No Bugs - No Problem -----

Dave...
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« Reply #26 on: June 06, 2009, 09:56:55 PM »

Dallas,

As Paul has noted I am in the middle of painting my 102A3. I started about two weeks ago by removing the windows and installing a cold roll skin in place of two windows on each side of the bus. I made a drawing of the shape I needed and had the cold roll laser cut to the proper shape. I then made up tubular cross pieces to fit inside the window openings to give more support to the new sheeting. I dry fit the pieces to check for proper alignment and then drilled for rivits. Removed the skin, deburred, cleaned everything up with laquer thinner, applied Fusor two part epoxy adhesive (112B) and positioned the skins in place with clecos. Removed one cleco at a time and installed 3/16" stainless rivits. Turned out really nice.

We then moved to sanding the side panels and the fiberglass surrounds at the front of the bus. I spent approximately 12 hours sanding these components and then applied the first coat of laquer primer. Sanded with 320 and checked for any areas that were not flat. I then applied another coat of primer and once again sanded with 320. This area is now very nice. I am impressed with how smooth it came out.

We will leave this area alone and move to the roof and the back of the bus. Same process, DA sand with 80 grit, fix any bad spots with filler, clean very good with laquer thinner and then primer. Sand with 320, apply second coat of primer and check for flatness/smoothness. Adjust any bad areas as required.

This bus had originally stripes running down the sides. These were painted on and when you ran your hand across the side panel you could feel the edges of the stripes. Really bad! These panels are now smooth as a baby's butt. I think this paint job will turn out good. Your final product will only be as good as the prep work.

I plan on painting the roof with the automotive paint up over the drip channel approximately 12". I will then apply a layer of Bus-Coat primer and then two layers of Bus-Coat paint. This get rolled on with a roller and then covered with a clear final coat. This material has some insulating characteristics and my plan is to use it on most of the roof.

We will paint the bus with a PPG 2 stage paint using a base color. Then we will tape off for the graphics and paint three additional colors. After all of the colors are applied we will apply 3-4 coats of clear. Then we will buff the clear to finish.

As of today we probably have about 65 hours in installing the side skins and preparing the sides and front for paint. I estimate we will spend about another 20 hours getting the roof and the back of the bus in primer and ready to paint. I think it will take about 20 hours to apply all four colors and the clear and another 16 hours to buff out the clear.

Here is the problem with a project like this. Once I have the paint finished the stainless sides will look bad and then I have another project?Huh Never ends.

In summation I would say this:

1) The cold roll sheet metal (14 ga) went on very well.
2) The Fusor panel adhesive product was very easy to use and had a 70 minute work time. I will use it again as I am replacing the skin on the rear blower door to get rid of the rivits.
3) The preparation of the side panels actually was easy. there is just a lot of area and mine were really bad with all of the stripes.
4) The laquer primer is very easy to work with and the final finish is like glass.
5) During this process I have removed some of the components from the bus, like the drip rail above the windows and the entrance door. I have also removed some of the sealant between panels that did not look good quality. I will replace this with an automotive seam seal that is paintable after priming but before paint.
6) It is very hard to decide on a color combination. There is just too much to choose from. I borrowed a PPG book from the paint store and after much indecision we have decided on the four colors. Very difficult process.
7) It pays to have the proper equipment and a good building to work in as this process would be difficult outside.
Cool Other than the large size the bus is actually really easy to paint. Nice flat panels at eye height?
9) The nice thing about the base coat - clear coat paint is that it is easy to correct mistakes. If you have a run you can just sand it out and proceed.

When I have the project completed I will post some photos.

Good luck to you with your paint project.

Doug


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« Reply #27 on: June 06, 2009, 10:55:26 PM »

Dallas,

If I can do this you sure as hexx can.

I hired a body and fender man to get me started and that was worth the money.  Much as a pro would be in showing you the ins and outs in running a rack.  The book gets you close, but!  A pro is a pro no matter which field you go.

I used SW and it was superb.  I looked at some PPG jobs and they were not nearly as good.  The paint industry changes so be careful.  I would also advise against two stage and certainly stick with solids/non metallic.

The paints are really poison....like dead.  If you spray in a booth you need a air supply mask AND some of this stuff can be absorbed through your eyes FOR CHRIXXX SAKE. Even you skin for some.  Most of that goes out the window if you wear a good mask and filter and paint OUTSIDE.  Nobody believes me Angry  With no wind and doing it in the early morn the vert sides come out spot/bug/dust free.  Just wet down the dirt in the field before you spray.  A big warehouse also works.  The roof gets high gloss Emron white and yes bugs and dust get on it but that doesn't matter up there.

Hire a "Shooter" for peace of mind but I had a ball and was cock proud of the result.  Labor cost ZERO.

I painted the lines on the side by walking the length of the coach with the gun wide open.  Made three passes for the Emron stripes.

A large veh. like a bus should be painted with a high volume gun.  If you use the HF item you should adjust the "speed" of your thinner to prevent the paint getting an overspray dull finish.  A shooter will have that gun cause they WILL NOT USE YOUR GUN.  And they won't lend a gun to anybody including relatives.

After you select SW product ask the store that sells it to recommend a shooter you can afford.  They protect their rep and talk up only the very best.  Shooters are product brand loyalists cause each product has its quirks and foibles.

The reason most hate body work is that their many hours of hard labor and meticulous attention to detail gets screwed up with the paint application and relatively few are good painters.  Any can be one of those, however.  Problem is you are going to do it once and your learning curve will be vertical.  Like I said though, if I can do it you can do it.  Outside in the dirt driveway Huh Shocked Cool Grin Grin

Have BubbaGal help ya.  She worked for seven years in a ....

Good luck,

John
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Airbag
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« Reply #28 on: June 07, 2009, 12:18:05 AM »

Dalls, I bought two guns from HF, about 15 bucks each. One for primer, one for finish coat. They worked great!

http://http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=47016

Can't wait to see the final product of your labor of love!

HTH,

~Paul~




You know guys this is why our economy is F.U ped. Why would you buy the Chinese gun when you can buy made in USA?HuhHuhHuh?? This is really starting to get under my skin. Even if you go on e-bay you can buy a used Binks or Divilbus for just a tad bit more than what you paid at Harbor Treason.  Sad All this flag waving here and we do this Y.G.T.B.S.M. Hell my shoes are made in Red Wing Minnesota! For Shame
« Last Edit: June 07, 2009, 12:24:09 AM by Airbag » Logged
Dreamscape
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« Reply #29 on: June 07, 2009, 03:56:20 AM »

Dalls, I bought two guns from HF, about 15 bucks each. One for primer, one for finish coat. They worked great!

http://http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=47016

Can't wait to see the final product of your labor of love!

HTH,

~Paul~




You know guys this is why our economy is F.U ped. Why would you buy the Chinese gun when you can buy made in USA?HuhHuhHuh?? This is really starting to get under my skin. Even if you go on e-bay you can buy a used Binks or Divilbus for just a tad bit more than what you paid at Harbor Treason.  Sad All this flag waving here and we do this Y.G.T.B.S.M. Hell my shoes are made in Red Wing Minnesota! For Shame


 Huh

Nevermind, I don't want to mess up a good Bus related topic! It was a good response too! Wink

Paul
« Last Edit: June 07, 2009, 04:32:28 AM by Dreamscape » Logged

Becky and Paul Lawry, On The Road
Travel Blog - http://dreamscapetravels.wordpress.com/
Bus Blog - http://dreamscapesilvereagle.wordpress.com/
______________________________________________________

Our coach was originally owned by the Dixie Echoes.
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