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Author Topic: Temp Coat  (Read 5619 times)
sweeney153
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« on: June 03, 2009, 06:18:37 PM »

I am looking into using Temp Coat http://www.temp-coat.com/ to insulate my 1979 Crown. I have not been able to find much info on this product. Has any one used this? I heard from one bus-nut who used it for part of his bus and liked it, any other input would be appreciated.

Thanks

Kevin
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« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2009, 08:23:41 PM »

Good evening Kevin,

I've read the web site and I'm uncertain about how you would be using the product as it looks like there are several.  I know I used a kool coat or something similar from Camping World on the roof of our previous RV, a motorhome, and I was very pleased w/ the result as far as insulating. 

Were you asking about their roof application product? , or ?

Have you already decided whether or not to use this product, and if so, which are you going to use?

Hope this helps, Phil
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« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2009, 10:17:51 PM »

White paint has no R value but it does wonders in that it reflects 80% of the heat.  They make a white paint that has tiny glass beads mixed in and it reflects an additional few percent.  You can also purchase the beads to mix into your paint.  You must decide if you are getting enuf bang for your buck.

I would opt to paint the roof with Emron  Pure/Brilliant white.  It wont dirt up and also won't mildew anywhere as much.  Washes easily without scrubbing.

Inside is a different story.  Color, white, has little effect.  The product you select MUST have a R value in the discription.  NOT "effective" or "reflective" of "sorta"......R VALUE.

Nothing even comes close to sprayed on hot foam.  NOTHING.  Closed cell!  Ask the board for a more precise product specification.  There are many posts on this.

John
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« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2009, 03:59:47 AM »

After researching this several years ago, I found the people whose opinions I respected in the bus community treated the temp coat type products like snake oil. So I went with the spray foam, sheet foam products will also work well.               JIm
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« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2009, 05:33:30 AM »

John hit upon the main drawback to the exterior coatings that I have seen posted in this and other forums before.  Most of them have a textured or granular surface.  They work ok when clean, but they quickly become dirty and mildew covered and are difficult to clean.  Then they no longer reflect away the radiant heat as well. 

I like John's suggestion of a high gloss, very smooth finish, bright white paint on the roof.
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« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2009, 04:06:47 PM »

Kevin,

I sent a few questions to the manufacturer of the "liquid ceramic insulation".  They say the product has an r-value of 20 when applied to make a 15-mil thickness and that it can be used in the interior.  My concern is odor and if it will perform as claimed once enclosed in a wall or ceiling or will it be just another paint.

FWIW -  To their credit, their product is approved by the U.S. Navy.

Rick
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« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2009, 09:11:30 PM »

They are sending me a sample can and all the documanation. I will do my own tests ald let you know what i fid out. They are very willing to answer any question I have asked. They recomend 20mil inside sprayed on for an rv.
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« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2009, 10:51:53 PM »

Any idea on the cost ?
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« Reply #8 on: June 08, 2009, 07:04:25 AM »

Quote
Any idea on the cost ?

They quoted me at $36.00 per galon plus $1.00 per gallon shipping to NY.
Coverage is 30 sq ft per gallon for 20 mill and 40 sqft for 15 mill.
if the info on ther web site is correct is looks like you can get higher R values then with foam and in less space.
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« Reply #9 on: June 08, 2009, 07:20:49 AM »

Sweeney,

That was my thought too.  The R-value they claim would be higher than the foam and in a fraction of the space.  That will leave more room in the bus for conversion (I believe every inch counts).

I just checked my email and they haven't sent me a reply yet.  Did they mention any reservations or concerns about using it inside the walls of your bus? 

Rick
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« Reply #10 on: June 08, 2009, 08:18:22 AM »

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Did they mention any reservations or concerns about using it inside the walls of your bus?

After the email I spoke to them at length on the phone.We discused exactly what i was going to use it for. As I understand it its a latex based product so is as dangerous as paint you use in your home. The MSD is avilable on their web page and it looks fine to me. Also the Navy and Coast Guard have apporved it for use in crew quarters.

Quote
Use TEMP-COAT® inside your custom bus or van and create an entirely new perspective in personal comfort.
We do autos, trucks, buses, industrial equipment, fire engines, ambulances, trailers, refers, rail equipment, RVs, and we do it right.

I am not trying to sell this product. I realy hopped some body had personal experiance with it. As I said when I get the sample I do my own tests and let you know what I find.
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« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2009, 08:33:07 AM »

Sweeney,

Thanks for the reply!  This seems like the way to go for insulating a bus.  Good find!

Rick
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« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2009, 08:41:16 AM »

Absolutly sounds good..almost too good ! But, if it works, It would definetly be something Id be interested in. So my next question would be, how do you measure the amt you put on ? Would a thicker application give you a higher R valu ?
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John P, Lewiston NY   1987 MC 9 ...ex NJT
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« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2009, 08:50:06 AM »

After researching this several years ago, I found the people whose opinions I respected in the bus community treated the temp coat type products like snake oil. So I went with the spray foam, sheet foam products will also work well.               JIm


For the last time!  Not trying to live your life.  We owe it to our fellow Knuts to make an effort to save each other time and wasted expense.  After you insulate you BUILD THE BUS OVER THE INSULATION.  It is a major commitment point.  "people whose opinions I respected".  Got it?  A consensus of the people that have been there.


Good luck with this,

John
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« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2009, 08:52:43 AM »

They supply a depth gague so you can tell how thick it is. I think if you want it thicker you have to do two coat
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« Reply #15 on: June 08, 2009, 09:01:55 AM »

Quote
For the last time!  Not trying to live your life.  We owe it to our fellow Knuts to make an effort to save each other time and wasted expense.  After you insulate you BUILD THE BUS OVER THE INSULATION.  It is a major commitment point.  "people whose opinions I respected".  Got it?  A consensus of the people that have been there.


Good luck with this,

John
 
 
 
  John Thats what I want. People have told me that they heard its bad.People have told me they heard from knowledgeable people that its great. But no one has told me of any direct information or even who said it. I searched the archivies on this board and others. Some one must have some direct experiance or reasons for their answers. I know there are a lot of guys here who have a lot of first hand knowledge and I respest those opions but if some body gives me an opion and cant tell me why, I dont take it as face valuie. The last person who got away will telling me "because I told you so" was my mom 40 years ago. I am not trying to battle any one just looking for info and shareing what I have found that may be better then what has been used
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« Reply #16 on: June 08, 2009, 09:20:55 AM »

Sweeny,

I am in deep sympathy with you.  Part of my frustration is that nobody except one chimed in.  I honestly think they are burned out on this subject having been through it so many times.  You are certainly getting conflicting info from authorative sources.  I ain't one of those....I just remember.

You might ask Nick Badame as he is an HVAC certified contractor,  I think he used the stuff you are looking at.

There are certified number crunchers here and Sean is high on that list.

Also try Gumpy Dog.  He ha experience and has been where you are and faced the same decisions.


Please forward to me any correspondance from that company where they claim a R factor of 20.  Or where they claim any R factor, actually.

Hear from you soon I hope,

John
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« Reply #17 on: June 08, 2009, 09:35:36 AM »

Sweeney,

I spoke with Temp Coat just a few minute ago.  They're sending me a sample too.  They gave me the same figures for coverage and cost.

I'm not sure how to do a quote but I do agree with Sweeney when he said,

"John That's what I want. People have told me that they heard its bad. People have told me they heard from knowledgeable people that its great. But no one has told me of any direct information or even who said it. I searched the archives on this board and others. Some one must have some direct experience or reasons for their answers. I know there are a lot of guys here who have a lot of first hand knowledge and I respect those options but if some body gives me an opinion and cant tell me why, I don't take it as face value. The last person who got away with telling me "because I told you so" was my mom 40 years ago. I am not trying to battle any one just looking for info and sharing what I have found that may be better then what has been used".


I'm not trying to create bad sentiment or hurt anyone's feelings but I won't automatically rule out the possibility that there may be a better way.

I wish more busnuts would weigh in on this subject!

Rick
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« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2009, 09:43:29 AM »

JohnEd,

They told me the R-value drops to about 10 @ 20 mil thickness when used inside the bus.  The rep said Prevost applies it to the outside of the roof and from the inside, they apply it to the walls & floor.  He added that Prevost then goes over that with a 1/2" insulation to raise the r-value and help deaden sound.

Rick 
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« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2009, 10:03:50 AM »

I think it is worth experimenting with as an additional to standard insulation.  (Rick beat me to this post, so what he found out verifies most of what I am saying below.)

Reading their spec sheet, it appears to me that their references are all about radiant heat transfer (i.e. direct sun).  And it seems to me they are recommending it in addition to standard insulation practices which woud be consistent with that.

Quote from: http://www.tempcoat.com/uploads/REDI-SPEC.pdf
ACCORDING TO RADIANT HEAT TEST RESULTS IN A ROOF TOP APPLICATION, TEMP-COAT®/Temp Won, WHEN APPLIED TO A THICKNESS OF 15 MILS, PERFORMS AS WELL AS A 4" THICKNESS OF FOAM WITH AN R-20 RATING.

"R" FACTOR EQUIVALENCE:
NOTE. Due to the absence of air flow, an "R" factor cannot be used and all tests are performed comparing the usefulness of this insulation with an "R" Factor Equivalence.


As someone who lives full time in my bus conversion, being in it much of the day in direct sun, I can say that anything that helps with radiant heat is a good idea.  My rigid foam board insulation is incredibly effective in the winter.  When the problem is mainly heat loss by conductance.  And it is very effective if I am parked in the shade even when the outside air temperature goes over 100°.  Again sitting in the shade, my insulation is proving very effective against conductive transfer of the heat from the air.

But when the summer sun hits the bus with all that radiant heat the temp inside goes up fast and it is a tough fight for the air conditioners to beat it.  If this product works and were applied to the inside surfaces before putting in rigid foam board, I can see how that would help some.  If it is applied to the exterior of the roof that would make even more sense as that would limit heating of the roof skin and thus heat transfer as conductive heat.

The issue I've heard with similar products though is they have a granular surface texture that collects dirt and mildew.  As the gloss diminishes, more radiant heat becomes conductive heat as the surface temperature rises.

When you guys test your samples, please report back about the texture of the finished surface.

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« Reply #20 on: June 08, 2009, 10:16:14 AM »

John

99% of the info I have is directly from their web page http://www.tempcoat.com/ They have MDS, Spec, manual etc. Ill be honest a lot of those numbers are over my head. Maybe some of the more knowledgeable guys will take a look and give an opinion when they have the time.  I have read some of Sean's responses and he definitely is thorough.  Sean and Grumpydog and others have a great deal of knowledge and seem to put a lot of thought and work into their answers. Their view on it would be appericated.
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« Reply #21 on: June 08, 2009, 03:31:56 PM »

From the emails I’ve gotten several bus nuts are getting the information packages and sample.
I guess by next week we will have more direct information. By the way I got my package today.
To bad I won’t be able to do my testing for a few days.
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« Reply #22 on: June 08, 2009, 05:14:38 PM »

One reason why some are skeptical of the claims made by this company is that radiant heat deflection is not measured in "R values" (I saw the reference to the disclaimers - but they continue to tout the R value rating) - another reason is that radiant barriers are most/only effective with ventilated attics - that being said I HAVE USED a product called "tech shield" for roof decking on residential and light commercial structures WITH heavily ventilated attics (continuously perforated soffits, steep roof pitches, high volume ridge vents) and it dramatically reduced the attic ambient temps - I believe, through my experince, that the effectiveness in a bus would be greatly reduced due to the lack of a ventilated crawl space and the amount of conductive heat transfer inherent in a bus - Now one of those Saudi double roof buses would have huge possibilities of success using such a product - FWIW
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« Reply #23 on: June 08, 2009, 09:55:43 PM »

Niles,

I think you are spot on.  And I think you said it more clearly than I.  So for that I hate you.(LOL)

Mike,

I like the idea of "augmenting" the r value of the foam sprayed over the stuff.  What does your intuition tell you would be the result of your having used only this product and not used any sort of foam?  I think I know the answer.  That condition is my motivation trying to get more and better analysis before they lock up the attic and walls for the summer.  In the summer it would reflect the radiant heat from the outside and in the winter the inside layer would reflect the heat back into the bus.  How much benefit and at what cost?  I think that was the rub.

Sweeny,

I don't have any explaination why Sean or GUMPY haven't jumped in.  Try sending each a PM.  I know each is generious to a fault.

Good luck,

John
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« Reply #24 on: June 09, 2009, 04:23:41 AM »


Does anyone know what R-value is achieved with the sprayed-in foam or the rigid foam board? and how thick the rigid foam needs to be?  It would be nice to have a benchmark to compare against when considering other products.

Rick
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« Reply #25 on: June 09, 2009, 05:06:10 AM »

John, I think it would pretty much have to be used in conjuction with traditional insulation in a bus environment (which is the way they are recommending it and the way they indicate Prevost uses it).  Used on the roof exterior I can see how it could help a lot when in direct sun, if it can be kept clean as easily as regular paint.  But if one were to use it as the only insulation (that does not seem to be what the manufacturer is suggesting), I don't think it would work well enough.

Rick, the rigid foam board I used had an R value of about 6.5 per inch of thickness.  I don't know the rating on sprayed in foam.  I think it is similar, but has an advantage in that there are no seams.
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« Reply #26 on: June 09, 2009, 06:41:26 AM »

Hi guys,
You want personal experience? Here's mine. I used that product, or a similar one, on the exterior of the roof of our 4106 because the interior was already finished. It DIDN'T work, that I could tell, from the begining and as it got dirty it still didn't work. I applied it with a roller so perhaps there is more texture than if it would have been sprayed, but in my opinion it was a wasted effort as far as any insulating value.
If you choose to use it I hope you have better luck. Looking back, I wish I had just painted my roof bright white.
Good luck with whatever product you use, Sam 4106
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« Reply #27 on: June 09, 2009, 09:00:02 AM »

Well I spent some time reading the info I received from Temp Coat. They sent test reports from universities, government agencies, testing companies, The Navy and Coast guard. Unfortunately I think I need an engineer to explain it to me. I know some of the engineer type bus nuts have sent for the info so I’ll just wait for them to look at it. This weekend ill do my box tests and report back.

Niles

About the R value, that was my mistake they say equivalency R value which is what all the testing papers call it. I didn’t know there was a difference and left out the equivalency

Rick

I hope when you get the info you are better at understanding it then me and if it really is R10 when sprayed inside that would be great as far as I’m concerned. When used in conjunction with foam it would give me about R18 per inch.

Sam

Thanks for your personal report. My roof now is bright white and I don’t think I would put it on the outside if it’s textured. Like you say it would get dirty and not work as well, besides it would look bad. I could see that working in a commercial situation where they run the bus through the washer but my washer is me with a bucket and brush on the roof. I don’t want to have to wash it more.
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« Reply #28 on: June 09, 2009, 01:41:51 PM »

Sweeney,

I'll let you know when I get it and have read through it.  If it is an R18/inch, with the foam, that would work for me too.

Rick 
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« Reply #29 on: June 09, 2009, 02:26:28 PM »

Rick,

I think you need a vacuum to get up to R18 per inch.  Just a little levity there. Shocked

The spray hot foam is the HIGHEST R factor you can get.  Billionare architects spray the walls in their own home with the stuff in order to get their houses certified in the highest category of GREEN.  If there was something better I think those birds would be using it.  It is R7 plus per inch.  The runner up is the foam board with foil backing.  Nobody I have see only puts in one inch.....what I have seen is 2 inches and with furring strips....2 1/2 inch.  So R14 to 17.5 in two inches.

Part of my heart burn is that we are being monitored by a lot of people and some will make decisions based on what we finally come up with and publish here.  We owe it to the next up at the plate.

I think we have come to a conclusion with this:  The stuff does work as a reflector of radiant heat.  It finds use both inside and out.  It is a thin, paint like coating.  Prevost uses it as a underlayment for their hot spray foam wall and ceiling insulation.  The Navy approves it for application to the 2 to three inch "lagging" that covers every exterior wall on the inside surface.  The Navy at one time approved "ASBESTSIS" for lagging, so don't look to them for cert and I worked for the Nav for 20 years.

OK!!!!
John
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« Reply #30 on: June 09, 2009, 06:13:58 PM »

John,

I joined this forum in April of this year.  I began posting just recently.  HighTechRedneck, who I know from another forum, often referred to busnuts on this board.  This prompted me to come take another look and I've not regretted it.  I've gained valuable knowledge and information and I'm having fun. 

I have no interest in arguments or debates that cross the line.  It is an expected practice, in this forum, to address each other with respect and not in a condescending or otherwise belittling fashion irrespective of views, opinions,  knowledge or the lack thereof. 

FYI, This will be my only reply to this type of post.  Future posts of this type will be ignored.

That said,  anyone who's invested in the acquisition of a bus will hopefully follow through on their due diligence and not decide a course of action based entirely on an ongoing discussion.  I'm looking at new products since discoveries and technological breakthroughs occur on a daily basis.  My posts are not intended to sway anyone, I'm merely participating.   I may discover that the current product used for insulating buses is the best way but I may also discover something better or new.     
 
As you mentioned, asbestos was once approved by the Navy.  It was implemented in a wide variety of applications and embraced as "the product".  Now, there are lawsuits due to its deadly effects.  Yet, the use of any other product, at the time, was likely discouraged.  This brings to point my reason for looking at and considering new products, ideas or other ways of doing things.

BTW, I'm not implying foam is a harmful product.  While it seems to be considered "the product" to use, someday it too will be replaced by something better.  Someday may be years from now or next year or even next month. 

Whatever the case, I'll enjoy the adventure of converting and using my bus!

Rick

     




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« Reply #31 on: June 12, 2009, 02:51:37 PM »

I did my testing. The lab results follow. You can make of it what you like. I know some others are testing also and I hope they let us know their findigs.
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« Reply #32 on: June 12, 2009, 03:35:48 PM »

Thanks for posting the results of your test. I really like the "official" look of your test results.  This is the kind of thing that makes these busnut BB so great.  Jack
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« Reply #33 on: June 12, 2009, 04:24:02 PM »

Sweeney153,

Kudos!  That was an impressive test!  Like Jack said, it takes a busnut to do something like that.  It seems the evidence speaks for itself.  I got my kit yesterday but I don't think I can top what you did.  I'll ask HighTechRedneck.

Rick
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« Reply #34 on: June 13, 2009, 04:07:43 AM »

Hmmmmm, I wonder if I would see an adequate benefit if I painted the sides, top, and back of our refrigerator with this stuff?  Jack
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« Reply #35 on: June 13, 2009, 05:38:33 AM »

I love the well conducted tests and format of results.  Very professional and well documented.

It's a shame they only gave enough of a sample to coat it <5mil.  I wonder if Bus Conversion's Magazine contacted them with an interest in doing a product review article if they would provide enough to do 20 and 40mil tests?  If so, would you be interested in doing the tests and writing the results similar to what you did?

That test was primarily a conductive heat test.  Are you thinking of doing a radiant heat test?  For example, placing it in direct mid day sun and performing similar tests.  Or a heatlamp for a more controlled environment.

How would you describe the texture of the finished surface?  Did it produce a slightly granular surface as some other brands have been noted as doing?
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luvrbus
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« Reply #36 on: June 13, 2009, 06:07:39 AM »

Tom Hall @ Coach Conversion Central had some test results for the product on his web several years back maybe he still does.
I don't know if he still sells the product or not,I bought 10 gals from him years ago and wasn't impressed with it on the inside of the bus.
To make a long story short the  1/8 in roll board was a better product for me. 
Tom is a good guy give him a call and he will tell you the pros and cons of the product.    

good luck  
« Last Edit: June 13, 2009, 06:17:00 AM by luvrbus » Logged

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sweeney153
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« Reply #37 on: June 14, 2009, 07:37:27 AM »

HighTechRedneck

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It's a shame they only gave enough of a sample to coat it <5mil.  I wonder if Bus Conversion's Magazine contacted them with an interest in doing a product review article if they would provide enough to do 20 and 40mil tests?  If so, would you be interested in doing the tests and writing the results similar to what you did?

That test was primarily a conductive heat test.  Are you thinking of doing a radiant heat test?  For example, placing it in direct mid day sun and performing similar tests.  Or a heatlamp for a more controlled environment.

I’d like to do more tests before I decide to use it. I would be happy to write it up for the magazine.

Quote
How would you describe the texture of the finished surface?  Did it produce a slightly granular surface as some other brands have been noted as doing?

The surface was rough, but I applied it with a brush. The manfactuer recomends using a sprayer. If the sprayed surface is anty thing like i got with the brush there is no chance I would put it on the outside of my bus
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